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Thread: Battle of Stalingrad

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Battle of stalingrad

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    I thought Beevor's work on the subject was pretty good...
    i don't think so. Beevor has already told enough lies to be not trusted as a writer.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Battle of Stalingrad

    Oh, could it be possible that Chevan moved to Moscow?
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Battle of Stalingrad

    He was a Fan of the Federation, so could be..

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Battle of Stalingrad

    Quote Originally Posted by stalin View Post
    not only for the Soviets. Stalingrad was the biggest and the most decisive battle of WWII and all times that turned the tide of the war, after which the West saw clearly which side was to be the winner and made its choice between the two by joining the USSR in the end.
    Erm the West joined the USSR in the end - hmmmmmm me thinks someone is

    a - a troll
    b - lacking some basic history
    c - a soviet version of a wehrberoo

    The poor old Soviets carved up eastern Europe with the Nazis in 1939 (Poland, Baltic States), did a deal over Romania pretty much forcing Romania to join the Axis camp, attacked Finland and then sat out of the war watching the Axis and British Commonwealth (along with what forces escaped to continue fighting after their countries were occupied) fight each other - all the while happily supplying Germany with materiel enabling it to prosecute its war (literally upto the minute Germany decided to head East with its allies).

    The Soviets only joined in fighting against the Axis when the Axis attacked them

    You may not have noticed that the British Commonwealth were fighting looooooong before the Soviets against the Axis - and along with the US supplied huge amounts of equipment to the Soviets al the while fighting all over the world not just along one front (as well as bombing the Axis heavily and supplying the various resistance and partisan groups).

    I never realised the rest of the allies never destroyed the Luftwaffe or Kreigsmarine as effective forces, took Italy out of the war, disrupted german war production, kept nearly a million people in AA defence of Germany (with all those guns and ammunition), that the Soviets supplied everything they needed themselves.
    IN the days of lace-ruffles, perukes and brocade
    Brown Bess was a partner whom none could despise
    An out-spoken, flinty-lipped, brazen-faced jade,
    With a habit of looking men straight in the eyes
    At Blenheim and Ramillies fops would confess
    They were pierced to the heart by the charms of Brown Bess.

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Battle of Stalingrad

    Quote Originally Posted by leccy View Post
    Erm the West joined the USSR in the end - hmmmmmm me thinks someone is

    a - a troll
    b - lacking some basic history
    c - a soviet version of a wehrberoo

    The poor old Soviets carved up eastern Europe with the Nazis in 1939 (Poland, Baltic States), did a deal over Romania pretty much forcing Romania to join the Axis camp, attacked Finland and then sat out of the war watching the Axis and British Commonwealth (along with what forces escaped to continue fighting after their countries were occupied) fight each other - all the while happily supplying Germany with materiel enabling it to prosecute its war (literally upto the minute Germany decided to head East with its allies).

    The Soviets only joined in fighting against the Axis when the Axis attacked them

    You may not have noticed that the British Commonwealth were fighting looooooong before the Soviets against the Axis - and along with the US supplied huge amounts of equipment to the Soviets al the while fighting all over the world not just along one front (as well as bombing the Axis heavily and supplying the various resistance and partisan groups).

    I never realised the rest of the allies never destroyed the Luftwaffe or Kreigsmarine as effective forces, took Italy out of the war, disrupted german war production, kept nearly a million people in AA defence of Germany (with all those guns and ammunition), that the Soviets supplied everything they needed themselves.
    Why do you insist upon introducing facts into a historical discussion?

    Do you have any idea how confronting this can be for people like stalin (and his namesake who, displeased with facts, disposed of the census takers who came up with the wrong number for the Soviet population in the late 1930s, which ensured that the next lot of census takers got the figures to agree with Stalin's)?

    If you keep this up, you'll only encourage others (possibly even me) to upset stalin with more facts contradicting him.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Battle of stalingrad

    Quote Originally Posted by stalin View Post
    Stalingrad was the biggest and the most decisive battle of WWII and all times that turned the tide of the war
    Really?

    Where would the USSR have been without the Battle of Britain, which stopped Germany invading Britain and allowed Britain and its Commonwealth to fight on alone in the world until the USSR was forced into the war by Germany's attack in mid-1941?

    Imagine what would have happened to the USSR if Britain had been defeated and the German forces it held against it in western Europe and the Mediterranean and the Atlantic to mid-1941 had been released for the assault on the USSR.

    Not to mention the material and materiel support which came to the USSR from Britain and from America based through Britain to the USSR after the USSR was forced into the war.

    Around the same time Britain was busy evacuating its army from France so it could continue its lone fight with its Commonwealth against Germany, the USSR after carving up eastern Europe with Germany was busy massacring 20,000 or so Polish soldiers at Katyn.

    Shortly afterwards Britain defeated Germany in the Battle of Britain, which held German forces against Britain in various theatres.

    This allowed the USSR to avoid fighting Germany, which was a very good idea as Stalin, with the rare brilliance of paranoid dictators, had wiped out much of the senior ranks of the Soviet officer corps in his memorably stupid purges and thereby left his army deficient in leadership capable of matching the Germans.

    Quote Originally Posted by stalin View Post
    after which the West saw clearly which side was to be the winner and made its choice between the two by joining the USSR in the end.
    Other way around.

    As leccy said,

    Either you're a troll or, politely, ignorant of history.

    Either way, best for you to lift your game.
    ..
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    Montesquieu

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Battle of Stalingrad

    Quote Originally Posted by leccy View Post
    Erm the West joined the USSR in the end
    that is, in 1944.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Battle of stalingrad

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Really?
    really, the numbers show that Moscow, Kursk and Stalingrad were the largest battles of WWII.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Where would the USSR have been without the Battle of Britain
    just there where it had been... and to call a military operation 'battle' it takes sufficient amount of infantry to be involved in it; so how many Nazi Germany soldiers were destroyed by the British alone?

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Battle of stalingrad

    Quote Originally Posted by stalin View Post
    i don't think so. Beevor has already told enough lies to be not trusted as a writer.
    Oh of course! That evil Beevor, that manages to piss off both the Russians and Germans at the same time...

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Battle of stalingrad

    Quote Originally Posted by stalin View Post
    really, the numbers show that Moscow, Kursk and Stalingrad were the largest battles of WWII.
    Largest battle judged by numbers of troops involved doesn't necessarily equate to most important in an overall strategic sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by stalin View Post
    just there where it had been... and to call a military operation 'battle' it takes sufficient amount of infantry to be involved in it
    "Battle" is a fluid term in popular and often military usage and in describing elements of an armed conflict.

    The way you want to use it results, for example, in the Battle of Britain in the air and the Battle of the Atlantic and the pivotal Battle of Midway on the sea not happening because they didn't involve infantry.

    As for Kursk, it was in conventional land warfare terms an operation involving a series of battles, not, as you say, an operation which was a battle. Battles can occur in various circumstances in land warfare but so far as operations are concerned they are usually part of an operation rather than the entire operation.


    Quote Originally Posted by stalin View Post
    ; so how many Nazi Germany soldiers were destroyed by the British alone?
    A. The figure is irrelevant because
    B. British Commonwealth forces were the only ones fighting Germany after France surrendered (and the USSR was busy oppressing eastern Europe) which
    C. Resulted in significant strategic damage to Germany in the Atlantic and Mediterranean on water and in North Africa on land which
    D. Kept the Suez Canal under Allied control which was critical to the war against Japan and
    E. Reduced the forces available for Barbarossa and in particular
    F. The British Commonwealth campaign in Greece and Crete, although a failure, delayed Barbarossa by about six weeks, which delay was critical by the time the Germans reached Moscow too late to endure the winter which
    G. Was lucky for the USSR as if Britain had capitulated when France did, then Hitler would have turned all his forces on his main aim of conquering the USSR and, in the unlikely event your ancestors survived, you'd be speaking German now.

    Body counts don't mean much by themselves, as the Americans and South Vietnamese demonstrated over many years in Vietnam with triumphant, and frequently woefully inaccurate, body counts against an enemy which duly won.
    Last edited by Rising Sun*; 01-24-2015 at 10:19 AM.
    ..
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    Montesquieu

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Battle of stalingrad

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Oh of course! That evil Beevor, that manages to piss off both the Russians and Germans at the same time...
    because he is British and was told to white wash the Brits while tarnish Russians and Germans, right?

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Battle of stalingrad

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Largest battle judged by numbers of troops involved doesn't necessarily equate to most important in an overall strategic sense.
    if by 'startegic' you mean a dastardly and cowardly practice of hiding from war while letting others fight it, then Britain is of course the winner here; but the talk is of true war where 'war' means destroying as much enemy sodiers as possible, which results in taking and controlling the territories the war is being waged for; this is what only matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    So, for example, the Battle of Britain in the air and the Battle of the Atlantic and the pivotal Battle of Midway on the sea didn't happen because they didn't involve infantry?
    take the world map and see where's Germany; is it on sea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    As for Kursk, it was an operation involving a series of battles.
    that does make up for a military operation, let's not go hair-splitting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    The figure is irrelevant because
    because they would show how small was Britain's role in that war?

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Battle of stalingrad

    Quote Originally Posted by stalin View Post
    if by 'startegic' you mean a dastardly and cowardly practice of hiding from war while letting others fight it, then Britain is of course the winner here; but the talk is of true war where 'war' means destroying as much enemy sodiers as possible, which results in taking and controlling the territories the war is being waged for; this is what only matters.



    take the world map and see where's Germany; is it on sea?



    that does make up for a military operation, let's not go hair-splitting.



    because they would show how small was Britain's role in that war?
    Time is running out, because this post in conjunction with your latest posts indicates strongly to me that you are not merely a fu*kwit but a troll.

    Nobody could join a military forum and be as stupid as you, yet manage to operate a keyboard.

    Your future on this board is in your own hands.

    Consider this a mod warning.
    Last edited by Rising Sun*; 01-24-2015 at 10:43 AM.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Battle of stalingrad

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Consider this a mod warning.
    reasons?.. or is this censorship?

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Battle of Stalingrad

    It's certainly not Censorship, and your stating that question only deepens the suspicion. Heed the man's warning, he doesn't give many.

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