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Thread: Anybody can see that enslaved prostitutes were necessary

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Victoria, Australia.

    Default Re: Anybody can see that enslaved prostitutes were necessary

    Some well thought out replies, thanks guys..

    That "just rape" quote though.. bit fuzzy on what you're getting at there..

    Do you mean "just".. as in justified.. like Press Gangs for the Royal Navy were justified..

    Even as far as snatching 'shanghai'-style US citizens on the 'High Seas'? [a warlike act?].

    & Therefore not a crime, as such, according to the enforcer, regardless of the recipient's view?

    See that 'Horrible Histories' Viking Song.. " ...Coz us Vikings don't care what you think"..


    Or do you mean 'only' rape..as in - its a standard spoil of war-type deal?

    [& To quote Monty Python a couple of times here..]

    "Shut-up - you silly bitch, its only a bit of fun"

    & not in the same category as say..crucifixion.. i.e."1st offence? , you might get away with crucifixion.."

    .. Yes, a Nippon variant of No 1 Field Punishment accorded to many a chosen P.o.W was just that.. nailed up..

    with added application of bayonet, or a coup de grace by sword if he was a lucky basterd..

    & in WW1 the British Kings Reg' version was being crucified:[not nailed, but strung out ..exposed to enemy fire]..
    & poor bloody Conchies got that..

    So yep.. its all relative in Beastly-town..& So..

    Is it more shameful, humilating & damaging, culturally, psychologically & physiologically..

    .. for a male as rape victim?
    Last edited by J.A.W.; 05-31-2013 at 05:10 AM.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Dublin, Ireland

    Default Re: Anybody can see that enslaved prostitutes were necessary

    Very interesting discussion, at least for me. Two points occur just now. First, it is true that definitions of what constitutes "rape", "sexual assault", "assault occasioning actual bodily harm" and so on have varied over time, and still vary somewhat over place - although the general tendency in "western" societies of late has been to adopt broader definitions of the more serious offence. This is an interesting subject in itself (especially for lawyers) but - in the case of the "comfort women" - the fact that large numbers of women were shanghied and confined against their will, or under severe intimidation, sometimes a great distance from their homes, in what amounted to brothels leads one to the pretty well inescapable conclusion that all manner of sexual assault, up to and including rape in the narrowest, most "traditional" definition, were inflicted as commonplace in such establishments. I must confess that my knowledge of Japanese prewar culture - let alone law - on such matters is narrow, but I doubt whether even by such particular standards, these activities could be regarded as other than criminal.

    As to the British press gang - this was actually an interesting example of the argument of necessity. Sailors - even "lowly" topmen and such - were skilled workers in late-18th and early 19th century Britain. They could earn good money in the merchant marine, serving under moderate discipline for the most part, and were generally strongly disinclined to join the Royal Navy, which involved very long patrols, often brutal discipline, and the possibility at some point of being blown to pieces or torn to shreads in the course of a particularly unforgiving sort of battle. The Naval press gang was, simply, the only way that His Majesty's Navy could get enough skilled "recruits" to man their ships, simply, by rounding up and "impressing" experienced merchant seamen. In fact, the press gang was also employed, across Europe, to make up numbers in land armies, in which the life and discipline were as brutal as in the Royal Navy without even the possibility of making one's fortune by sharing in a "prize" on the High Seas. Was this justified by necessity ? Is it valid to make such a judgement on the basis of our current values ? History would say "no" and, at the time, the justification of necessity went virtually unquestioned. That was then, this is now. Probably have some comments on "victor's justice" at some later point. Best regards, JR.
    Last edited by JR*; 05-31-2013 at 06:29 AM. Reason: Omission

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2007

    Default Re: Anybody can see that enslaved prostitutes were necessary

    I wrote one of my long, rambling but ultimately more or less coherent and brilliantly incisive () pieces in response to this thread, but the ****ing site gobbled it up during the posting process.

    So I am forced to be unusually concise (in a brutal form of what used to be required as precis many moons ago), because I can't be ****ed typing all that again. Not that, in my advanced years, I have any idea what I wrote before, anyway.

    Impressed seamen C18 = conscription C20.

    Essential moral difference between conscripting Korean or any other women as sex slaves and conscripting young men to serve in military forces they don't want to be in and potentially to kill people they don't know and don't want to kill = not much.

    Reasons why Korean women in particular were conscripted by Japan reflects Japan's arrogance as a ruthless colonial power in Korea, independently of Japan's general brutality and inhumanity in China and Pacific War.

    Naked hypocrisy by certain conservative elements in modern Japan concerning comfort women and China and Pacific War atrocities etc = continuation of similar Japanese elements' arrogance towards and contempt for Koreans in its pre-war colony; in China from 1933; and in its Asian colonies 1941-45

    Term 'comfort women" should be expunged from the language and replaced with VOH which stands for Victims of Hirohito which redresses a little his profoundly unjust avoidance of responsibility for all of Japan's war crimes and crimes against humanity and stands for "sex slave of Japanese militarists, nationalists and zaibatsu in their grasping and inhumane pursuit of riches for them as the privileged classes in Japan without regard to the rights, liberty and lives of everyone else, whose inheritors have run Japan for most of the time since WWII".

    Anyone who wants to retain term 'comfort woman' must advocate that rape complaints to police in countries outside Japan will be recorded as 'comfort' rather than 'rape' and the complainant being referred to as "a comfort woman who complained of being comforted by the accused comforter" rather than "the rape victim raped by the rapist".
    A rational army would run away.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Victoria, Australia.

    Default Re: Anybody can see that enslaved prostitutes were necessary

    More points of value.. thanks again, guys..

    Interesting, that in the C19th - when the British were beginning to actively oppose commercial slavery,

    impressing seamen into the RN was still happening.. & the abduction of US citizens on the basis their being

    'rebels' was one of the contentions of the war between Britain & USA 2 centuries ago..

    The shifting values re 'rape' whereby the ancient position was.. that the real offence was the misuse of another mans

    chattel rather than the females personal rights.. has been turned over so that charges may be laid ex-post facto..

    on reflection- by the complainant on the reconsidered perception of events rather than the facts..

    As for the perception of the Nippon Imperial 'right' to direct conquered subject peoples as hapless low-status

    recipients of organised, regularised 'force majeure', maybe 'victors justice' does come into it, since Stalin's like

    horrors have not really been high-lighted -or remediation sought, quite so vehemently.

    The overt, defensively stonewall position of the respective nationalist Gov'ts in Japan & Russia is similar..
    Last edited by J.A.W.; 05-31-2013 at 06:33 PM.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Victoria, Australia.

    Default Re: Anybody can see that enslaved prostitutes were necessary

    Is it possible ['Devils Advocate'-wise] that in their view of the scheme of things,
    that the Imperial Nippon Defence Forces.. in their own cultural context of Duty..were providing
    some coarse form of 'Geisha' service for the Emperors doomed youth?

    & that whatever the sacrifice demanded of the subject women, it was mere bagatelle by comparison?

    Unit 731 stands out as another Mac Arthur post-war travesty..

    'Maruta' - logs of wood - was the Japanese code for human subject/victims of that mob..

    Like giving Dr Mengele a nice varsity research tenure-ship, or an ex-SS Colonel the Apollo program..

    Oops.. that last one might actually have happened..

    Ah well, needs must & etc..eh chaps..

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