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Thread: Target: Patton

  1. #1
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    Default Target: Patton

    I heard of this book when it first came out but wasn't interested for a few years (even though I have been convinced for some time that Patton was murdered, and even wrote a paper on my theory for a junior college COM class) because I fell for a negative review. At any rate, one day I was in the bookstore looking for a book about WW2 that looked interesting to me, and that I hadn't already read, and I decided to give Target: Patton a read, if for nothing else than to pick out and lament the weaknesses. I expected it to be an awful book, typical conspiracy theory nonsense, but it turned out to be a fantastic read and was clearly the product of a dedicated, honest, and exhaustive investigation

    Of course, there are weaknesses, but those are due to the investigation by this particular author only commencing around the year 2000, when most of the players were dead, but the historical back story is 100% solid.

    If anyone of you should pass by this one in Books A Million, I would very strongly urge you to pick it up and read Chapter 19: Problem Child, as well as Chapter 14: A Soldier, Not a Diplomat. Both chapters could stand alone as articles in Historical Journals, and will not screw you up if you read the whole book in order afterwards.

    thanks

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    Default Re: Target: Patton

    Who wrote it ? I know I could probably find comprehensive references on the Internet, but something I was taught at university is that when it comes to secondary sources, historians should have regard to references like author's name (acknowledgement of which, btw, the author is legally entitled), the index, and stuff like that. Best regards, JR.

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    Default Re: Target: Patton

    Quote Originally Posted by JR* View Post
    Who wrote it ? I know I could probably find comprehensive references on the Internet, but something I was taught at university is that when it comes to secondary sources, historians should have regard to references like author's name (acknowledgement of which, btw, the author is legally entitled), the index, and stuff like that. Best regards, JR.
    Derrrr... forgot to list the Author. Robert K. Wilcox


    [img][/img]

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    Default Re: Target: Patton

    A lot of the "got'cha" evidence the books purportedly sets forth doesn't seem to be all that controversial under scrutiny. If you read Band of Brothers, or just watch the last episode of the miniseries, you'll see that a fair number of Army personnel were dying in "accidents" after WWII, and collisions with Army trucks was nothing that was particularly unusual. Also, the "without an autopsy" factoid really doesn't mean anything, as someone who dies in the presence of a doctor is not required to have one IIRC.

    I believe Patton was about to be sent home anyways...

    The book also defames "Wild Bill" Donovan while lionizing Patton as an outspoken conservative. I think Wild Bill also was quite conservative and was a self made multimillionaire on Wall St. and Congressional Medal of Honor winner...
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 01-17-2013 at 07:32 AM.

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    Default Re: Target: Patton

    Nick I love the adolescent smugness with which you summarize books you have never read. And Patton was indeed going home, and was actually hurt in the car accident the very day before he was leaving. Furthermore Patton was not retiring but resigning from the Army and he was planning to speak out re: corruption within SHAEF and expose what the Russians were really up to in Europe. He was resigning so that he could no longer be ordered to shut his mouth. So his death was either A) An extremely lucky accident for the Russians B)a plot to silence him.

    But yeah, it's ludicrous to believe that Stalin would ever plot to have anyone killed, right?

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    Default Re: Target: Patton

    Quote Originally Posted by Washout View Post
    Nick I love the adolescent smugness with which you summarize books you have never read.
    "My adolescent smugness?" Um. okay. I'm not one to pull rank, but you're talking to a moderator, my friend from the "masturbatory"...

    You're trolling and it is getting old and seems to have run its course...

    But we'll play along for a bit longer...

    And Patton was indeed going home, and was actually hurt in the car accident the very day before he was leaving. Furthermore Patton was not retiring but resigning from the Army and he was planning to speak out re: corruption within SHAEF and expose what the Russians were really up to in Europe. He was resigning so that he could no longer be ordered to shut his mouth. So his death was either A) An extremely lucky accident for the Russians B)a plot to silence him.

    But yeah, it's ludicrous to believe that Stalin would ever plot to have anyone killed, right?
    "Resigning?" Really? Then why didn't he do it sooner? Why wait so long to "expose corruption?" He had been promoted to Full General, and was beloved by many within the command even if he was a ticky pain-in-the-***...

    Secondly, Patton was involved in a few controversies of his own, not least of which the shoddy, if understandable under the circumstances, treatment of German POWs under his command. I haven't read the book, but it seems to be based on two crank sources. And there are several crank books from WWII based on the testimony of guys who were there...

    Thirdly, why do you keep solely reading these conspiracy books rather than just reading some of the highly rated biographies of Patton? Why is everything some Red Conspiracy?

    What book on WWII have you read that isn't some fringe conspiracy work? I'll be waiting for this answer, or I'll have to call "shenanigans" on this troll...
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 01-17-2013 at 08:01 AM.

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    Default Re: Target: Patton

    More adolescent smugness^.

    It is not in dispute that he was resigning and not retiring. It's in his diary, and each of his inner circle said the same thing. And why didn't he do it sooner? If you're actually curious, why don't you hmmmm, maybe find out for yourself? Read a book. Maybe venture outside of your comfortable box of thinking? I do, frequently, and in fact seek out what I do not agree with (such as right now I am reading a doorstopper which lauds Edward R. Murrow, who I consider to be a dishonorable weasel).

    And I love how you tell me what I read and don't read. I have read over the last 20 years, literally over a hundred books on WW2 and that period (maybe over two hundred), everything from stuff like The Longest Day/ A bridge too far to entertaining, small picture stuff like Band of Brothers and A Blood Dimmed Tide. You cite Band of Brothers so often I wonder if you have read very many other books about WW2 at al. I read that one, too, at least a dozen years ago, and then I read the follow up about Winters specifically, The Biggest Brother a couple years ago. I have actually read just about everything written about Patton. Carlo D'Este's genius for War, Farago's Ordeal and Triumph, and also the Last Days of Patton as well as Charles M. Province's The Unknown Patton, even ones critical of him about the Hammelberg Raid and the War Between The Generals plus others which I'm sure I have forgotten

    of course, for years I dismissed the Patton murder. His family dismissed it, and that was good enough for me. I put the issue to bed over a decade ago. But the issue just wouldn't stay asleep as the more I studied the more plausible it seemed, and as I became curious about Patton, specifically, and began reading in depth I became satisfied that he was murdered, long before I ever bothered reading Target Patton.

    And there's more. I have also spoken to WW2 vets at some length, for years, including a good friend of mine who I hesitate to name because I never got the chance to interview him at depth before he died. But anyway he was a paratrooper in WW2, went on to fight in Korea and in Vietnam as a Special Forces Colonel, and was even the first commander of the Army's HALO school as well as working with CIA and spooks. He was not a crank or a fool, and he was more sure than I am that Patton was assassinated, as are many, many savvy old military retirees.

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    Default Re: Target: Patton

    Would a large percentage of these "books" be Sgt. Rock, Weird War, or perhaps (in honor of Gen. Patton) Haunted Tank Graphic Novels? Your Diatribes seem rather comic book grade, to me at least. I would also caution you against sassing any member, rude, behavior is against forum rules. And sassing a Moderator is never a good idea. You may have the Right to speak, but you do not have the Right to be heard. In order to be heard, one must say something worth listening to.

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    Default Re: Target: Patton

    Quote Originally Posted by Washout View Post
    ...
    And I love how you tell me what I read and don't read. I have read over the last 20 years, literally over a hundred books on WW2....
    Then why don't you know anything? I've never seen an avid reader on history present such amateurish opinions....

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    Default Re: Target: Patton

    No doubt a thumping good read, in the tradition of Erich von Daniken's 'Chariots of the Gods' and sundry 'Churchill knew about / caused / planned Pearl Harbor to bring America into the war" books and articles. If one suspends disbelief while reading. And knows nothing about relevant historical facts.

    An inconveniently contrary but internet accessible view on Patton's death is at, among other places which foolishly examine facts rather than flimsy supposition generated to help sales of polemical or just plain silly books, http://www.heroesatmargraten.com/the...-s-patton.html

    Nonetheless, I'm always willing to be persuaded that implausible or improbable historical interpretations are correct, in the same way that I'm willing to consider incontrovertible evidence that sub-normal hillbillies are plucked out of their pickup trucks on lonely roads at night and spirited away to a space ship where super-advanced aliens agonisingly expose and inspect all their internal organs, before courteously depositing them back in their truck without leaving any sign of surgical intrusion.

    Some good points to start to persuade me that Patton was murdered would be:
    1. To identify the Soviet agents who poisoned Patton;
    2: To explain how they did it when Patton was surrounded by the best American medical staff available; and
    3. To explain how they did it in an American military hospital.

    Oh, and to explain the inconvenient fact that the OSS was disbanded at the beginning of October 1945, more than two months before Patton's traffic collision, which makes it rather difficult to maintain the claim by the self-proclaimed and incompetent assassin that he was ordered by 'Wild' Bill Donovan of OSS to murder Patton.

    Then again, I suppose the facts that no autopsy was performed on Patton or Roosevelt http://www.awesomestories.com/images...f2d31ce4c3.jpg are conclusive proof that the Soviet spymasters had complete control of everything in pursuit of their evil domination of the USA.

    After all, if autopsies were performed on either of them, evidence would have emerged of how the Soviets had used aliens to implant control devices in their brains, without surgery.

    Anyway, lest anyone doubt the credentials of author Wilcox as a historian of rare ability, his credentials are displayed on his website robertkwilcox.com where his impressive discoveries include solving the mystery of the shroud of Turin and revealing, to the astonishment of those of us who despite wide study deluded ourselves that Japan never got near to developing a nuclear weapon:

    Japan's Secret War (1985):

    Japan's race against time to build it's own Atomic Bomb. This is a groundbreaking look at one of the least known and most astonishing episodes of World War II. Japan's race to develop its own Atomic weapon.

    Laurance McQuillan of the UPI: "In a fascinating look at what might have been, Robert Wilcox details just how close Japan came to successfully building an atomic bomb of its own and radically altering world history."
    And there I was thinking that, if Japan was engaged in a hundred yard race with the US or even Germany to develop an atomic weapon, it couldn't even make the first yard before the other competitors had finished their race.
    Last edited by Rising Sun*; 01-17-2013 at 09:34 AM.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

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    Default Re: Target: Patton

    Quote Originally Posted by Washout View Post
    Furthermore Patton was ... expose what the Russians were really up to in Europe.
    Yeah, that would have been a revelation of stunning cosmic insight to the Western leaders and their populations who before, during and after the war were alarmed by the potential for communism to spread.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

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    Default Re: Target: Patton

    Quote Originally Posted by Washout View Post
    So his death was either A) An extremely lucky accident for the Russians ...
    Why?

    Patton had no power to do anything that affected them, and no knowledge that anyone opposed to the Soviets didn't have.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

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    Default Re: Target: Patton

    Quote Originally Posted by Washout View Post
    So his death was ... A) An extremely lucky accident for the Russians
    Bit of a problem here, old sport.

    Your hero Wilcox says that the Soviets poisoned Patton when the incompetent assassin ordered to kill him by the non-existent OSS failed.

    That's hardly an accident, is it?

    Or is it time for you to escape the contradictions and idiocies in your argument by "Beam me up, Scotty?"
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

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    Default Re: Target: Patton

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Thirdly, why do you keep solely reading these conspiracy books ...
    Those books are printed on special paper for the wankers who think the conspiracy theories make sense.

    The paper is teflon coated. It stops the pages sticking together.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

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    Default Re: Target: Patton

    That's a very thoughtful Publisher.

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