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Thread: German Nuclear Weapon Program

  1. #61
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    Default Re: German Nuclear Weapon Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Awesome! Crackpot conspiracy sources from fanbois and completely disingenuous postwar rantings of Nazi scientists. "Yeah! We were so close, had it not been for Hitler..."
    More derision from armchair experts who never research the facts themselves

  2. #62
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    Default Re: German Nuclear Weapon Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Ironically, I'd like to ask you the same question.
    Since Nickdfresh you made the outrageously incorrect statement that the Germans had no atomic bomb project, something which any 8th grader could disprove with wikipedia, I guess it's easier to throw insults than answer the question.

    Since you don't know several fundamental things about the nazi atomic bomb project for starters what qualifies you to question the facts?

  3. #63
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    Default Re: German Nuclear Weapon Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    If you are going to quote me from a post on another website then don't mislead people by failing to quote my explanation that I made a typo about the dates on that website, otherwise you are simply deliberately misleading people.

    I also explained there that I was trying to relate what a German correspondent had told me in broken English. If you will not quote me in full then don't bother tricking people by partially quoting me

    I did not mention the 8th Army in my post here. The 6th Para regiment supported by 3 Royal Tank Regiment went into Espelkamp but the underground bunker there was taken by 3RTR with 23rd Hussars (armored cars) and the 4th Shropshire Light Infantry. The records however are held at the Imperial War Museum in the file for the British 8th Army Corps which is probably why you are so confused.




    Strange you've never heard of this aircraft below with a 6,000kg bomb load which performed a number of successful air raids over england called the Steenbock raids, nor of the He-177B or He-277 which could bomb England from above 49,000ft?





    Clearly you have not done any research or you would know that the US 8th Air Force specifically targeted Espelkamp, Minden and Hanover on the tip off from a young SS Grenadier POW called Plumeyer who revealed under interrogation by the US 9th Army the location of this secret underground plant (MUNA Lubbecke)

    No Espelkamp was captured 4th April 1945 and if you wish to check i suggest you visit the IWM records.




    Again I refer to Farm Hall transcripts which secretly tape recorded German nuclear scientists referring to an American threat to Hitler via Lisbon to abandon his nuclear weapons program or Dresden would be nuked. Churchill also waded in with a threat conveyed to Hitler via Romania's Marshall Antonsecu. Churchill threatened Hitler if he used the atomic bomb against Britain then the RAF would respond by delivering Anthrax all across Germany, which would lead to mass starvation within 2 weeks.

    Other than derision Rising Sun you have offered no explanation why there are no design drawings for Little Boy, no records of who built it or when or how in the Manhattan project and you have not explained to us how the Americans who were struggling in crises in April 1945 to produce enough Uranium to fuel the Hanford reactors could have come up with 64kg of Uranium just five months short of bombing Hiroshima?
    Odd way to fight a war, putting all that effort into firing V1 and V2 weapons towards Britain when Hitler had a really big banger just sitting there ready to stun the Allies with the devastation he could wreak by firing it in the face of their advance.

    Obviously it made more sense to that charitable Nazi not to fire his great weapon in preference for drafting children and old men and anything else he could get his stunted hands on when he was desperate to use everything he could to stop the Allies.

    Apart, apparently, from his atomic bomb, the capture of which according to you was originally by Ian Fleming and his AU unit but which you now attribute to "The 6th Para regiment supported by 3 Royal Tank Regiment went into Espelkamp but the underground bunker there was taken by 3RTR with 23rd Hussars (armored cars) and the 4th Shropshire Light Infantry".
    ..
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  4. #64
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    Default Re: German Nuclear Weapon Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    Again I refer to Farm Hall transcripts which secretly tape recorded German nuclear scientists referring to an American threat to Hitler via Lisbon to abandon his nuclear weapons program or Dresden would be nuked. Churchill also waded in with a threat conveyed to Hitler via Romania's Marshall Antonsecu. Churchill threatened Hitler if he used the atomic bomb against Britain then the RAF would respond by delivering Anthrax all across Germany, which would lead to mass starvation within 2 weeks.
    Primary, or any, sources?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    Other than derision Rising Sun you have offered no explanation why there are no design drawings for Little Boy, no records of who built it or when or how in the Manhattan project and you have not explained to us how the Americans who were struggling in crises in April 1945 to produce enough Uranium to fuel the Hanford reactors could have come up with 64kg of Uranium just five months short of bombing Hiroshima?
    I didn't realise I had to respond to issues not raised.

    I sent my crystal ball to my crystal ball repairer on this issue and, after examining it, he said "Your crystal ball has a defect in the seventh quadrant where you are expected to identify and respond to issues not raised. There is no repair for this defect, apart from avoiding contact with people who think you should be able to work out when they are going to go off on a tangent; anticipate their tangent; and respond to it. The Version 7.9 upgrade for your crystal ball, which you have not installed, gives you limited protection in these cases but may be needlessly offensive to people who go off on tangents etc."
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  5. #65
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    Default Re: German Nuclear Weapon Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    Other than derision Rising Sun you have offered no explanation why there are no design drawings for Little Boy, no records of who built it or when or how in the Manhattan project and you have not explained to us how the Americans who were struggling in crises in April 1945 to produce enough Uranium to fuel the Hanford reactors could have come up with 64kg of Uranium just five months short of bombing Hiroshima?
    Everybody knows the Americans got their Manhattan project nuclear knowledge from the Germans, who went into the war with the sole intention of doing a dive so that America could bomb Japan with a nuclear weapon based on superior German technology. This long term plan was concealed by WWII, which allowed the Americans, and others, to destroy Germany so that the Japanese wouldn't smell a rat.

    It was all part of Henry Ford's plan to dominate the globe.

    Ably assisted by aliens.
    Last edited by Rising Sun*; 01-25-2014 at 10:02 AM.
    ..
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  6. #66
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    Default Re: German Nuclear Weapon Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    More derision from armchair experts who never research the facts themselves
    It's alright Kiwi, we're enjoying your baseless, uncited and completely unscholarly rantings having no basis in truth. It's funny that after reading numerous books from like actual historians, I've never encountered any substantial reports of the super-Nazi tech wonder-weapons you seem to be so giddy to report about here. It must be such a burden to be the only with this forbidden knowledge! One would almost think the Third Reich might have won the war! The website you've even linked to looks like a high school kid designed it in 1997. I'm sure its credibility is beyond reproach!..
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 01-25-2014 at 11:36 AM.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: German Nuclear Weapon Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    ....


    Strange you've never heard of this aircraft below with a 6,000kg bomb load which performed a number of successful air raids over england called the Steenbock raids, nor of the He-177B or He-277 which could bomb England from above 49,000ft? ...
    LOL I think the far greater danger from this aircraft was that it's engines might start on fire and the primary danger might have been to fishing trawlers in the Channel, and its unfortunate crews.

    BTW, if you're going to use Wikipedia as your source for Nazi bombers, can you please do the same for The Manhattan Project? Because I noticed they said nothing about the American bomb projects being stolen by Patton and Flemming and Flemming's gang of heavily armed Fembots!


    "Hands up Nazi! Step away from the bomb!"
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 01-25-2014 at 11:39 AM.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: German Nuclear Weapon Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    Since Nickdfresh you made the outrageously incorrect statement that the Germans had no atomic bomb project...
    Um, no. I never said any such thing. Cite where I said anything close to this.

    The Nazis in fact did have a bomb program, as did virtually everyone else. It just sucked...

  9. #69
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    Default Re: German Nuclear Weapon Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Everybody knows the Americans got their Manhattan project nuclear knowledge from the Germans, who went into the war with the sole intention of doing a dive so that America could bomb Japan with a nuclear weapon based on superior German technology. This long term plan was concealed by WWII, which allowed the Americans, and others, to destroy Germany so that the Japanese wouldn't smell a rat.

    It was all part of Henry Ford's plan to dominate the globe.

    Ably assisted by aliens.
    How dare you sir! I'm going to send one of Hitler's flying saucers stored in an underground base in Argentina to teach you a lesson! You'll pay for your insolence!
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 01-25-2014 at 11:39 AM.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: German Nuclear Weapon Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    If you bother to research even a little further you will find there was no history of Little Boy in the Manhattan project before April 1945. There was a similar project to develop a Plutonium gun device known as “Thin Man” which had to be abandoned in February 1945.
    Up until the failure of “Thin Man” there was absolutely no project for the Little Boy Uranium bomb.
    You seriously believe that? For a long time the only Allied bomb project was based around Uranium-235, indeed the Frisch–Peierls memorandum which kicked off the MAUD committee was all based around calculating the critical mass of U-235 needed for a bomb. The existence of this is all very well documented and so far as I'm aware undisputed. Are you trying to tell me that despite several years of thinking that the only way to build a nuclear weapon was using enriched Uranium, the Americans and British suddenly decided it was impossible and only changed their minds again when they captured an untested German device, at which point the first time they used it was dropping it on a Japanese city to see if it worked? You've taken a highly implausible suggestion (that the Germans produced a nuclear bomb and didn't use it) and added details to take it into the realm of fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    If you do some genuine research you will also find that the huge Oak Ridge gaseous diffusion plant K-25 did not even begin production until March 1945 and when that came online was only able to enrich Uranium to 2% U235, so where did all the 64kg of HEU for Little Boy come from?
    The ten Caultrons of the Y-12 plant by February 1944 were only producing 200grams (ie 0.2kg) of 12% enriched U235 per month so perhaps you need to do some math and tell me how they arrived at 64 kilograms of HEU for HIROSHIMA, plus the Uranium for at least two Plutonium bombs (ie TRINITY and NAGASAKI) by August 1945?
    Several things here:
    1) Calutrons are much more efficient at enrichment if the feedstock is itself partially enriched. When K-25 came online, the efficiency of the Calutrons improved radically.
    2) More Calutrons were built later - those of the Beta track started between March and November 1944.
    3) Hanaford probably didn't need enriched Uranium, it was designed to run off natural Uranium. So the total requirement was for Little Boy only. I've read arguments that Hanford was later fuelled with enriched Uranium, but the evidence of later graphite-moderated reactors is that only low-enriched Uranium would be required - such as the output from the K-25 or S-50 plants, which was available in relative plenitude. The bottleneck appears to have been with the Calutrons enriching to high levels, which would certainly not have been required by Hanford.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    During April 1945 Oppenheimer finally decided to serial link all three Oak Ridge processes using the results from one plant as feed stock for the next process and only by that method could they produce reasonably enriched Uranium for Hanford.
    Didn't need it - graphite moderated reactors don't need enriched feedstock, it's only if you're using water as a moderator that it's required. That's why the UK went to the MAGNOX style design - it'll happily run with natural uranium. See comments above about enrichment levels as well - it would certainly not have needed the HEU which was in short supply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    More nonsense, you clearly have never heard of Jozef Schintlemeister in Vienna who was a huge proponent of the Plutonium bomb. Prof Fritz Houtermanns calculated the critical mass for Plutonium 239 and published this in a report (G-94) from October 1941. The Nazis called it Eka Osmium.
    There are several issues here between the calculation and a working nuclear weapon:
    1) Convincing people to build it. The Americans had the MAUD committee report which said "this is how to build an atomic bomb" and it wasn't until Marcus Oliphant flew over and started pounding on desks that they paid any attention to it.
    2) I've never seen any evidence that he was a "huge proponent" of such a bomb, merely that he had done work on Plutonium. Big difference - the French in 1940 had been doing a lot of similar work but so far as I can tell they never thought of it as of value for blowing things up.
    3) Even had they realised it could be used for military purposes, the sheer amount of engineering involved in a bomb programme would need a major effort. Which so far as I can tell never happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    Actually Heisenberg was quizzing Bohr about his pre-war experiments transmuting Thorium 232 into Protactinium 233 to obtain Uranium 233 for nuclear weapons. His speech notes for the June 1942 Harnack Haus conference found in KGB archives in Russia reveal that far from being a pacifist Heisenberg gave an address to fellow German scientists about the need to harvest Protactinium for an atomic bomb. During 1944 he was a consultant the Dallenbach project at Bisingen developing a Synchrotron to develop Plutonium through nuclear transmutation.
    I don't think anybody really believes Heisenberg was a pacifist - that seems to have been an ex post facto excuse to explain why he failed while a bunch of Jewish refugees succeeded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    Oh really then why did Roosevelt convey a threat to Hitler through Lisbon in July 1944 that the Allies would drop the bomb on Dresden unless Hitler sued for peace within six weeks?
    If he did, then why was a bomb not dropped on Dresden as a result? Most likely explanation is that at most this was garbled, and more probably invented outright.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    not that he did not notice... the refining process used in Nazi Germany to obtain Carbon caused boron contamination so that his assessment was correct for the Carbon they had to work with... Had they used a different chemical process they could have obtained Carbon without Boron contamination.
    So they were incompetent chemists rather than incompetent physicists? Since an atomic bomb programme needed both, you're not being very convincing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    Simply not true because the Potsdam agreement was reached in July 1945 before the Bomb was used against Japan.
    Yeah, because Stalin was well known for

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    The Hiroshima bomb "Little Boy" weighed 8,900lbs (4,040kg). The German atomic bomb known as 76-Zentner was captured by Cmdr Ian Flemming's 30AU Royal Marine Commandos near Espelkamp on 4th April 1945 and that weapon weighed 3,800kg
    Plenty of innuendo, no evidence. That's actually a classic example of what is found in made-up stories - people who will later become famous and "telling" details mixed in to make it seem like a story must be true. In reality, the only legitimate evidence for something like this would be witness testimony from people who were there, or better photographs of it. No such evidence exists - it's all of the "my father found a building in 1945, and it was near to this building that the British found a German atomic bomb" - e.g. this story. Lots of claims about censorship to explain why this story has never come up before, but the origin of the story is always RUMINT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    Not to be confused with a small boosted fission bomb design by Dr Schumann and Dr Trinks in 1942 which the Japanese claimed in a diplomatic signal from Stockholm to Tokyo in 1944 to be a 5kg "Uranium atom smashing warhead of devastating effect." The signal was declassified by the American NSA in October 1978 from a MAGIC intercept in WWII.
    Yes - and people are never mistaken when they send signals? That design of weapon is very substantially harder to build than a straight gun-type Uranium device - even allowing for the effort needed to refine the material.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    Strange you've never heard of this aircraft below with a 6,000kg bomb load which performed a number of successful air raids over england called the Steenbock raids, nor of the He-177B or He-277 which could bomb England from above 49,000ft?
    Plenty of aircraft out there that could get over target with a sufficient bomb load. Problem is, very few of them were fast enough to get away from the blast and survive. The B-29 was extremely marginal in it's ability to do so.
    Also, don't confuse ceiling with maximum height on a bomb run - ceiling for the Germans was the maximum height a very lightly loaded aircraft could reach (typically a photo-recon type). With 6 tonnes of payload and enough fuel to make to back to Germany, ceiling is going to be much lower. That puts it well into the performance envelope of fighters like the Welkin or even the Meteor.
    Last edited by pdf27; 01-26-2014 at 03:49 AM. Reason: Extra comments on Hanford
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    Default Re: German Nuclear Weapon Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    How dare you sir! I'm going to send one of Hitler's flying saucers stored in an underground base in Argentina to teach you a lesson! You'll pay for your insolence!

    I fear you not, for the flying saucers are outdated and lack GPS.

    Anyway, the flying saucers aren't in Argentina. They're near Hanover, in the underground atom bomb factory and proving ground, still waiting for Hitler to give the order to use them.


    They are inscribed with the launch order "Use me, Adolf, use me hard.".
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  12. #72
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    Default Re: German Nuclear Weapon Program

    Quote Originally Posted by pdf27 View Post
    I don't think anybody really believes Heisenberg was a pacifist...

    That's for sure!

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