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Thread: Fighting at Aleppo, Syria

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Fighting at Aleppo, Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    So what? Are you seriously suggesting that Ghaddafi was better than the current Libyan gov't? Are you seriously calling Assad's regime "moderate?"
    What is a "current Libyan gov"?Seems you have no idea.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/op...trol.html?_r=0
    The Libyan government sits on the sidelines avoiding conflicts with militias it cannot control. Recent attempts to subdue Qaddafi holdouts in the town of Bani Walid ended in humiliation; government forces were outgunned and outfought. Their weakness results from the lack of a crucial institution for state building: a national army.

    Government officials recently announced plans to disarm the militias and integrate former rebels into the army. But there is no army structure to absorb these young fighters — and increase public confidence in the government’s ability to otherwise disarm them.
    The current gov controls nothing except their homes. The real force in Syria is a former Qaddafy supporters and Islamic militia - both are non-managed force for "govenment". The people in Libya lives in FEAR of constant of terror.The violence still a common. Is that a real alternative to moderate ( more or less) Qadaffi rule, you think?
    http://www.examiner.com/article/nato...latforms-libya
    “Clearly the US is protecting Libyan oil for western corporations”, says Matt Black of Charlotte.

    US troop presence has been reported in Brega, Ras Lanouf and Sirte - in order to help themselves to Libyan oil so that Western corporation get the oil at a very cheap price...if not totally for free.

    PEOPLE LIVING IN FEAR

    Meanwhile, according to foreign news reports “the people of Libya live in constant fear.”

    This in a country where not long ago, anyone..man, woman or child, could safely venture out any time of night or day without fear of molestation. Now no one is safe, even in their own home.

    “There is little food, people are starving. They wait in lines for hours to get their own gas. There is no running water or electricity.” Says Mary Abrara of Libya.

    This is fast becoming the signature situation of US military interventionism around the world.
    Last edited by Chevan; 11-12-2012 at 01:54 AM.

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Fighting at Aleppo, Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Chevan View Post
    How to say!?Do you think that ugly Islamic militia provoking the riots, sunni ethnic terror and ruthless Sharia law - aren't ENOUGH bloody by your mind?At least it didn't happen within Gaddafi rule..
    Plenty of blood was shed under Qaddafi's rule, including terrorist attacks on American civilians (Pam Am 103). If you want to believe ALL the Rebels ARE ALL THE SAME when only a small minority are Islamist, fine. There's no point in discussing it and we'll agree to disagree. We'll only know who comes to power once Assad is dead...

    You seems pretty selectively take the ALL matter as well. The fact of attack on UN convoy just proves the "rebels" has no absolutly rules in their terrorist war and targets ALL the vehicles , including civils!!!The UN observers were a damn lucky not being killed by explosion.And , as the article is pro-western ( anti-assad) and biased they also have mentioned the "opened fire on a civilian funeral procession"- which doesn't clarify the reasons of fire!it might be the answered fire , provoked by previous attack, so simular for terrorist.
    So, at the very worst, you're saying the rebels are as bad as Assad's regime forces?

    This is just widespread nonsense! The arab world is a NOT ALL THE SAME.The secular Muslim don't praise allah , killing anybody! The secular muslim are the ordinary assad soldiers - they muslim as well and they are not shout "allah acbar" in a combat.Just coz they enough secular and civilized( in terms of regular army discipline). The Syrian muslims are not the match to the crazy WAHABI radical fighters from Saudi.
    The secular muslims on the West are the civilized peaceful people who can't hurt anybody on ethnic or religious basis.DO you hint on that ugly crowd of b..rds wich throwed the people from top of building are SECULAR?
    I never said they were "all the same." Just that there are typical religious refrains of celebration and woe in much of the Islamic world whether they are observant or more secular. It is a fact that during the Algerian Civil War of the early 1990's, that both members of the secular gov't Army and Islamic guerrillas would often shout the same refrains either celebratory or calling out God to help them when wounded. "Crazy Wahabbist fighters"? How many (specifically) Saudis are there do you think?..

    Yes , they didn't , just like the unsuccesfull Americans NOW there. Sure the idiot Breznev did a much for radicalizasion of Afganistan by ugly soviet imperial policy there. But wasn't that not Zbignev Brzeginsky who went to Ben-Laden and discussed the us military help to radicals?And if Saudi is so nasty supporting the Al-quada all around world- why then US finaly invaded Afganistan instead to start intervention agains Jihadist in Saidi?
    They seems just use the "jihadist war theme ' to justify the own imperialism,aren't they?
    Um, Brzezinski never spoke to a Bin Laden, Binnie probably wasn't even in Afghanistan yet and Brzezinski was only there for the beginning as the Carter Admin was defeated and Reagan took over beginning in 1981. Very little contact was between Bin Laden and the U.S. with maybe a few CIA agents on the ground that had some discussions with him. But the idea that Bin Laden came from the CIA is conspiratorial crap from those that have no understanding of the Soviet-Afghan War...

    So the US/Israel targets the ONLY terrorist!!!??Come on Niki. I wrote you - you are TOO old to be naive?Or yo specially fools me?
    When US fough Faluji, Iraq in 2004 and used the white -phosphorous shells which caused a serious casualties among civils , including a lot of woman and children - Its OK!!
    When US army wiped out entires villiages in Nothern Vietnam , bombed it with Orange( still there born a babies with serious defects) - No problems , this is everything for democracy and WOMAN AND CHILDREN!!!
    If the Assad use the artillery - this is a crime against woman and children?
    I can't speak for the Israelis, but in fact the U.S. only does target insurgents/terrorists. Of course there are people killed in collateral damage of heavy weapons, but especially during The Surge in Iraq, the use of air strikes and artillery was sharply curtailed in order to win support of the population as per the counterinsurgency tactics adopted. As for Fallujah, certainly civilians died, but the city was largely emptied just prior too and in the early part of the battle and the white phosphorous was used against insurgent targets to clear the city.

    In Vietnam, I highly doubt villages were destroyed in the North as that would have been pointless. Of course we did drop a lot of ordinance and certainly depopulated villages were wiped out in the South. As for Agent Orange, that was a defoliant and not a weapon. The users were largely ignorant of the health risk posed by DDT and of course the civilian population there suffered its horrendous effects--as did U.S. veterans also coming on contact with the defoliant...

    What is going on? The CIA has recruited you?So far you've been responsible ,critically thinking and social-oriented american.Not you just repeat that propogandic nonsense from CNN!
    Why do you think should assad target to kill the OWN Syrian women and children? Unless the terrorist used the civils as cover, attcking the army from building , full of civils?
    Um, I am still critically thinking. Assad targets women and children in abortive crackdown with has had the opposite effect and is well documented. I work for the CIA? LOL Silly. You're the one that is basically spouting the official Russian line as the Russian gov't is one of the only factions that still support Assad, basically because they want to keep their access to naval port facilities there!

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Fighting at Aleppo, Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Chevan View Post
    What is a "current Libyan gov"?Seems you have no idea.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/op...trol.html?_r=0
    Excellent NY Times article which goes a long way in saying what I've been saying, that the Libyan Gov't is struggling to integrate these separate militias into a standing gov't controlled, disciplined Army. That's perfectly understandable and predictable, the U.S. is now doing more to help I believe in training and equipping them...

    The current gov controls nothing except their homes. The real force in Syria is a former Qaddafy supporters and Islamic militia - both are non-managed force for "govenment". The people in Libya lives in FEAR of constant of terror.The violence still a common. Is that a real alternative to moderate ( more or less) Qadaffi rule, you think?
    http://www.examiner.com/article/nato...latforms-libya
    Are you talking about Syria or Libya?

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Fighting at Aleppo, Syria

    I find it interesting how the coverage by the media differs by the region, politics of the media and other factors. I am reading this thread now (not nearly done yet), till now I have seen that Users from the US, Russia, Turkey, Ireland, Portugal and Ireland commented (sorry if I missed someone out), where I also assume that media coverage is different, partially hugely different. Some sympathic to the Rebels, some to the Assad regime, some restraining.


    Of course, people do inform themselves also over other channels as well building their own opinion (I do not want to accuse anyone to be a media-muppet or so )


    I have observed the discrepancy of the media coverage with 3 examples:

    1) The Austrian media usually is on the side of the rebels, labelling them "freedom fighters" and labelling the Assad regime as "opressive and terroristic".

    2) In Bosnia this summer when I went to a hairdresser, I read a bit in the newspapers and took a "Dnevni Avaz", a Bosniak (that is Muslim of Bosnia) newspaper. The newspaper took right the opposite point of view, calling the rebels "terrorist" while the Assad regime in their eyes is the "peaceful government" which is "defendind the state" against the aforementioned "terrorists". I do not remember now whether the rebels were also labelled anti-islamic in the newspaper.

    3) At the same occassion I also read a newspaper of Bosnian Croats (the Bosnian variant of Večernji list). Surprisingly, their coverage was quite cold and emotionless. It was a nearly statistical account of victims on both sides with numbers of the government as well as those of the rebels published. Also, in another article they documented a case of "photo doctoring" undertaken by the Austrian "Krone" newspaper, merging a picture of some burning ruins as well as a picture of some presumably Arabic people running, though not under what one would call special circumstances. The result was a picture depicting burning ruins with people running away in front of them. Christoph Dichand admitted the doctoring of the pictures, stating that "it still depicts the plight of the people in Syria very well".

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Fighting at Aleppo, Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Evillittlekenny View Post

    Of course, people do inform themselves also over other channels as well building their own opinion (I do not want to accuse anyone to be a media-muppet or so )
    Yes of cource, but it isn't the ONLY we are talking about..
    The matter not as much about difference over media's vertion of events , but about how cynicaly the mass media may ignore the sources that doesn't follows it's own "general politic line". In fact neither ZNN nor Putin's puppet RT don't even care to reflect the real situation in Syria. The youtube has a tonns of video of atrocities commiting by so called "FSA rebels" why those freaks still claims the terrorost fight against "tyranny". They explode the carbombs almost everyday, killing the civils in Damascus while the mass media try to create almost an parallel reality, affirms the rebels fight for sort of democracy..
    Syrian opposition activists gave account to the bombings and could not be independently confirmed, but the targets appeared to be pro-government areas, although civilians were killed and injured in each attack.

    The introduction of car bombs and suicide bombings into the Syrian conflict has been increasing as of late. These kinds of tactics are associated with the kind of sectarian violence of insurgents and militants in neighboring Iraq, called al-Qaeda and terrorism by the US.

    In Syria though, Washington is not calling it terrorism. Instead, Washington is supporting the groups carrying out this violence in Syria, despite the fact that many of the same groups fought against the US and the Baghdad government it supports in Iraq.

    “The evidence is mounting that Syria has become a magnet for Sunni extremists, including those operating under the banner of Al Qaeda,” the New York Times reported in July. “The presence of jihadists in Syria has accelerated in recent days in part because of a convergence with the sectarian tensions across the country’s long border in Iraq.”
    According to one US intelligence estimate, as many as a quarter of the 300 rebel groups in Syria may be fighting under the banner of al-Qaeda, says Rep. Mike Rogers (R-MI), chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.

    Earlier this month, a United Nations investigation found that rebel militias have committed war crimes along with the Syrian regime. But the Obama administration does not appear to be budging from its current policy of support for the rebels.
    It's just getting more ridiculously then funny!!The US who spend so much political propogand ,resources and lives, fighting the Al Qaeda- now pump it up in Syria! Where are all the reasonable westerners looking at?
    Last edited by Chevan; 12-06-2012 at 11:14 AM.

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  6. #66
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    Default Re: Fighting at Aleppo, Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Um, I am still critically thinking. Assad targets women and children in abortive crackdown with has had the opposite effect and is well documented. I work for the CIA? LOL Silly. You're the one that is basically spouting the official Russian line as the Russian gov't is one of the only factions that still support Assad, basically because they want to keep their access to naval port facilities there!
    I was kidding when wrote you works for CIA LOL
    You just think and say accurate like your own mass media. And now - i don't care about those idiotic "putin's line" ( however i have to add the Putin at least doesn't call the terrorists as "democrats") and you are wrong if think it everything about weapon trade and phony geopolitical games from kremlin.But i do understand your HINT right coz the US imperial policy does exactly this way.
    You think i'am anti-american - this is WRONG!!Whom , by your mind, the jihadist will kill next?Americans in Iraq and Afganistan!!!It's inevitable.You can't just train them or stop- thay will hunt and explode YOUR soldiers whatever you wrote they do i in Syria now and how heroically they fight with assad. And i'm not endeed happy about that. Just coz i share the views that Islamic terrorism is an ABSOLUTE evil. Looking like easy your domestic own mass media fools you and how your personal " enthusiasm" turn your mind into the pseudo-patriotism.

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

  7. #67
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    Default Re: Fighting at Aleppo, Syria

    Chevan, I don't know exactly what you find "inaccurate" in my mass media. There have always been concerns expressed about militant jihadists fighting in the FSA as well as several reports on the FSA summarily executing prisoners captured from Assad's forces. I've simply said they are not all Islamic fundamentalists, not even in the majority...

    As for the thread overall, recent developments:

    The FSA is going to topple Assad. They're fighting in the outskirts of Damascus, the Russians are beginning to abandon Assad, he's making inquiries about sanctuary countries to flee, and his government is about two or three months away from collapsing. Once Damascus is cut off, it's just a matter of time.

    The truth is there will be no NATO ground troops involved in major battles, if they do go in, it will be to secure chemical weapons, which Assad is reportedly considering using....

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    Default Re: Fighting at Aleppo, Syria

    I seem to have maybe stirred up some already forgotten discussion, sorry about that.

    But I have one more question about it, did anyone hear something about infighting between the rebel groups? Someone in this thread remarked that there are possibly 100 different groups. The groups will differ in their views and goals largely, I wonder whether they put their own dispute aside to "solve" the Assad matter or whether they are already fightign each other.

  9. #69
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    Default A matter of time...

    Syrian warplanes bomb rebellious Damascus suburbs
    By BARBARA SURK | Associated Press – 1 hr 19 mins ago

    Men help a wounded civilian after a mortar attack in the Saif al-Dawlah neighborhood of Aleppo, Syria, Sunday, Jan. 13, 2013. The revolution against the Syrian regime started in March 2011 with peaceful protests but morphed into a civil war that has killed more than 60,000 people, according to a recent United Nations estimate. (AP Photo/Andoni Lubaki)

    A street controlled by government forces is seen through a sniper in the Saif al-Dawlah neighborhood of Aleppo, Syria, Sunday, Jan. 13, 2013. The revolution against the Syrian regime started in March 2011 with peaceful protests but morphed into a civil war that has killed more than 60,000 people, according to a recent United Nations estimate. (AP Photo/Andoni Lubaki)View Photo


    BEIRUT (AP) — Syrian fighter jets on Sunday bombed Damascus suburbs in a government offensive to dislodge rebels from strategic areas around the capital, activists said, as clashes raged around army bases and airfields in the country's north.

    The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said warplanes were hitting towns and villages around the capital, while regime forces targeted other neighborhoods with artillery and mortars. At least nine people were killed when a shell hit eastern Ghouta district, the group said.

    Also Sunday, Turkish state media said Assad's fighter jets bombed the Syrian town of Azaz near the Turkish border.

    At least 34 Syrians wounded in the airstrikes were brought across the border to the Turkish province of Kilis for treatment, the state-run Anadolu agency said. Seven died of the injuries, the report said.

    The Observatory said troops were battling rebels in the suburb of Daraya a day after government officials claimed the army had taken much of the strategic area, which lies on the edge of a major military air base southwest of the capital.

    In northern Syria, government forces were fighting rebels over an air base and the international airport of the city of Aleppo. The airport includes a military base.

    Syrian troops have been pushing since November to regain Daraya, which had a population of about 200,000 before the fighting. Thousands have fled the relentless violence, among more than 2 million Syrians who have been internally displaced during the civil war. At least half a million Syrians have fled to neighboring countries like Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan.

    Because of its strategic location, rebel control of the Daraya poses a particularly grave threat to the capital.

    The suburb is flanked by the key districts of Mazzeh, home to a military air base, and Kfar Sousseh, where the government headquarters, the General Security intelligence agency head office and the Interior Ministry are located.

    While Assad's loyalists appear to have an upper hand on the Damascus front due to the regime's air power, the rebels dealt the government a major blow in the north by capturing a sprawling air base in Idlib province on Friday.

    Rebels retained control of the Taftanaz base Sunday and intensified their assault on the Mannagh air base and the international airport in Aleppo, Syria's largest city, activists said.

    Among the rebels taking part in the battle are fighters from Jabhat al-Nustra, an Islamist group that the U.S. has branded a terrorist organization. Washington said the group, among the most organized and effective rebel forces on the ground, is affiliated with al-Qaida.

    Syrian official statements regularly play up the role of Islamist militants in the civil war and refer to the rebels as terrorists.

    More than 60,000 people have been killed since the revolt started almost two years ago.

    Heavy fighting was reported Sunday in the northern province of Deir el-Zour, involving attacks by warplanes, activists said.

    Last month an international aid group, Doctors Without Borders, said tens of thousands of Syrians, many of them wounded, are trapped in Deir el-Zour.

    In Aleppo, where rebels fought troops to a stalemate last year, the two sides clashed near the air force intelligence building in the Zahra neighborhood.

    The state-run SANA news agency said an army unit killed "a number of terrorists and destroyed a convoy of cars that was transporting weapons, ammunition and terrorists" in Deir el-Zour.

    Prime Minister Wael al-Halqi formed a ministerial committee to conduct dialogue with opposition groups, SANA reported. The dialogue is part of efforts to implement a peace plan Assad outlined in a speech a week ago.

    In his first address to the nation in six months, Assad rejected international calls to step down and offered to oversee a national reconciliation conference, while rejecting any talks with the armed opposition and vowing to continue fighting them.

    The speech was condemned by the U.S. and its Western and Gulf Arab allies, while Assad's backers in Russia and Iran said his proposal should be considered.

    In a rare demonstration in Damascus, dozens of protesters staged a sit-in at the Justice Ministry on Sunday, demanding the minister move against merchants who activists claim are trying to profit from the crisis by raising prices of cooking gas, flour and bread.

    Food prices have soared in the past year in Syria, as the value of the local currency plummeted because of the conflict and an international ban on oil exports.

    ___

    Associated Press writer Albert Aji in Damascus, Syria, and Suzan Fraser in Ankara, Turkey, contributed to this report.

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