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Thread: Thwarted plot to kill Stalin, Churchill & Roosevelt

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Thwarted plot to kill Stalin, Churchill & Roosevelt

    Quote Originally Posted by woundwort View Post
    So, whilst Vartanian would have been in some position of authority, I wonder if the bigging-up of him was down to an attempt to get Roosevelt under surveillance.
    Be interesting to see if the contemporary documents, from both sides, support that. Secondary sources I've found through painstaking research (i.e. the magic of Google ) suggest Operation Long Jump might have been more of a Soviet invention to bug Roosevelt than a German operation to do anything.

    Page 203 at http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...page&q&f=false It's a pity p.204 isn't available on the internet.

    From page 288 and note footnote 29. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...orzeny&f=false

    Footnote 204 at page 363 at http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...orzeny&f=false

    Linking Skorzeny's rescue of Mussolini to Long Jump ignores the fact that Mussolini's rescue was an extraction, not a suicide mission as killing the Big Three in Tehran probably would have been. This lends some support to his reported refusal or denial of Long Jump in the documents above.
    Last edited by Rising Sun*; 01-24-2012 at 05:57 AM.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Thwarted plot to kill Stalin, Churchill & Roosevelt

    My point about the Gran Sasso raid was that there are suicide missions (in which the participants will be do everything they can to fight their way out) and there are kamikazi missions. Judging by Skorzeny's fighting record, he certainly wasn't adverse to taking-part in the former... Gran Sasso, for all the goals of a successful extraction of living cargo and couriers, was not without a degree of risk.

    Skorzeny _did_ suggest kamikazi missions. I recall as account from a Waffen SS officer who described this as repulsive to all his moral code and anathema to a Christian Europe. Irony is an oft misused word where paradoxical or unfortunate coincidence is more appropriate, but to hear this display of moral outrage from the Waffen SS was hugely ironic... it just is that I didn't feel like laughing.

    Lettuce sea and say there was an initial reconnoitre mission sent to Iran. Skorzeny was scheduled to be landed in a second team, which could explain his reluctance to continue. I forget which Admiral in the Imperial Japanese Navy who submitted himself to one of the final kamikazi missions, but such displays are relatively uncommon from commanders who use junior members as human bombs.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Thwarted plot to kill Stalin, Churchill & Roosevelt

    Quote Originally Posted by woundwort View Post
    I forget which Admiral in the Imperial Japanese Navy who submitted himself to one of the final kamikazi missions,
    Matome Ugaki? Whose final triumph was to fly as a passenger into the ocean, which was as pointless as most other deaths in ultimately pointless wars.

    Quote Originally Posted by woundwort View Post
    but such displays are relatively uncommon from commanders who use junior members as human bombs.
    As evidenced more recently by the absence of the likes of Osama bin Laden, Hezbollah leaders etc among the ranks of suicide bombers.

    But that's not much different to old men and rich men and powerful men and their occasional female counterparts in all nations sending hordes of others to fight and die in defence of, or to advance, the things that matter to and benefit old men and rich men etc. Which, each in their own way, was exactly what the Big Three, Hitler, Mussolini, Hirohito and their respective supporters were engaged in in WWII.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

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