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Thread: Info needed for writing project

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Info needed for writing project

    Quote Originally Posted by muscogeemike View Post
    I don’t doubt the topic is “deeply controversial” - I would also believe it is deeply embarrassing.
    Um, it is quite controversial if you actually get into it. "Deeply embarrassing" would be a more superficial, simpleton take after one gets into the scholarship of the battle...

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Info needed for writing project

    Frenchmen are no better or worse than any other group of humans.

    I chose to dislike the idea of the French and France. This is irrational and illogical - but it is my choice.

    But to be referred to by a “Major-Staff Member” as a “simpleton” seems to me to be, in and of itself, rather “superficial and simpleton”.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Info needed for writing project

    I wasn't referring to you personally, just the overall view celebrated in pop-culture. Having said that, I still laugh at the old David Letterman "Top-10" list jokes about the French reaction to the reunification of Germany, which included, "installing speed bumps to slow down the panzers"...

    The reality is that things were far more complex and included a good deal of German luck (or gluck) as much as it included French failures...
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 12-04-2011 at 12:00 AM.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Info needed for writing project

    Quote Originally Posted by muscogeemike View Post
    I readily admit to my anti French bias. Their arrogance is, perhaps, rivaled only by ours (the U.S.).
    Quite possibly, but at least Americans speak English. Sort of, anyway.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Info needed for writing project

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Yes, the Brits burned our capital (and my hometown as well, although to be fair we burned what is Toronto first!). But we wouldn't exist as we do without the French aid that was both material and corporeal during the Revolution.
    True, but Napoleon got into Moscow which is more than Hitler managed, and Napoleon had to start further away and without motorised transport, and long before Germany had unified under any national identity or state.

    Moscow also burnt while Napoleon was there. I used to think Napoleon burnt it, but apparently it was more likely a Russian scorched earth action.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    And the French may have lost two epic battles with Germany/Prussia, but they also claimed war on Germany while we stood idly by--knowing that at best it would be a grim two year struggle to defeat Germany....
    Maybe, but America had no compelling reason to get involved in yet another European war in WWI, which wasn't really a world war on the geographic and homicidal scale of WWII.

    Germany, consistent with Hitler's unnecessary and idiotic declaration of war on America in WWII, forced strongly neutral America into war against Germany by the Zimmerman telegram and the resumption of unrestricted submarine warfare which would target US ships.

    When it comes to dealing with the US in world wars, Germany really had a death wish.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Info needed for writing project

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    ...

    Moscow also burnt while Napoleon was there. I used to think Napoleon burnt it, but apparently it was more likely a Russian scorched earth action.
    Where do you think Uncle Stalin's boys got the idea.

    Maybe, but America had no compelling reason to get involved in yet another European war in WWI, which wasn't really a world war on the geographic and homicidal scale of WWII.

    Germany, consistent with Hitler's unnecessary and idiotic declaration of war on America in WWII, forced strongly neutral America into war against Germany by the Zimmerman telegram and the resumption of unrestricted submarine warfare which would target US ships.

    When it comes to dealing with the US in world wars, Germany really had a death wish.
    Don't forget the large number of loans the U.S. banks were making to the Allies. And while Germany made many mistakes in regards to handling the Americans in the First World War, both sides realized early on that inevitably the United States would fear and never accept a complete domination of Western Europe under German occupation.

    As for WWII, Hitler was in a bind realizing that he could never compete with America on an economic level of sheer production. His drastic action was Operation Barbarossa--hoping that taking control of the best parts of the Soviet Union--would give him all the grain, oil, factories, and (slave) labor to compete with the U.S. strategically in a long war, if Adam Tooze is to be believed...

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Info needed for writing project

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post

    Maybe, but America had no compelling reason to get involved in yet another European war in WWI, which wasn't really a world war on the geographic and homicidal scale of WWII.

    Germany, consistent with Hitler's unnecessary and idiotic declaration of war on America in WWII, forced strongly neutral America into war against Germany by the Zimmerman telegram and the resumption of unrestricted submarine warfare which would target US ships.

    When it comes to dealing with the US in world wars, Germany really had a death wish.
    I believe that the Zimmerman telegram was part of the reasoning for the U.S. entering WWI.

    Isn’t Zimmerman a Jewish name? I don’t know if the Secretary was Jewish but it would be ironic if a Jew was a major part of the U.S. going to War with Germany.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by muscogeemike View Post
    Isn’t Zimmerman a Jewish name?
    Not really. Zimmermann (= Carpenter) ranks 20th among the most common German family names.
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Info needed for writing project

    Quote Originally Posted by muscogeemike View Post
    I believe that the Zimmerman telegram was part of the reasoning for the U.S. entering WWI.

    Isn’t Zimmerman a Jewish name? I don’t know if the Secretary was Jewish but it would be ironic if a Jew was a major part of the U.S. going to War with Germany.
    Numerous German-Jews were decorated WWI veterans. In fact, I recall reading somewhere that German soldiers of Jewish linage tended to have a slightly higher percentage of awards and decorations than their non-Jewish counterparts. A little fact the Nazis never could reconcile their silly "stab-in-the-back" B.S. with...

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Info needed for writing project

    Quote Originally Posted by muscogeemike View Post
    Suggestion - don’t over glorify the French resistance, their legend is larger then their actual accomplishments. The majority of the French were rather neutral, many even supported the Germans - (especially when it came to deporting Jews) - to the point that an entire division of Frenchmen volunteered to fight in the German Army.
    Remember, also, they (the French) fought against the British in Iraq and Syria; against the Brit’s and the U.S. in N. Africa; and in Indo China activly assisted the Japanese.
    I note with sadness the contunuing propensity of many Americans to "dump on the French" whenever the opportunity presents itself. One has to wonder how many divisions the US would have supplied to the Germans had they been occupied by them. How many might have collaborated and how many would have made a pact with the devil? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Info needed for writing project

    Quote Originally Posted by royal744 View Post
    I note with sadness the contunuing propensity of many Americans to "dump on the French" whenever the opportunity presents itself. One has to wonder how many divisions the US would have supplied to the Germans had they been occupied by them. How many might have collaborated and how many would have made a pact with the devil? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
    What I said is all historically true - not necessarily “dumping on the French”; and there is much that could be added to what I listed.

    And we (the US) too often forget without French aid it is very unlikely there would be a USA (at least as it exist today).

    The US has many sins in its past, as a Native American I am well aware of this. But I fail to see how our sins absolve the French of theirs.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Info needed for writing project

    Not all Americans forgot this. Look up Pershing's first words when he arrived in France during WW1...
    I have neither the time nor the inclination to differentiate between the incompetent and the merely unfortunate - Curtis E LeMay

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