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Thread: Could Japan have won if they lost?

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Could Japan have won if they lost?

    The big mistake of japan was thinking that destroyng perl harbour the US power was finish, if the defence listend YAMAMOTO he wante to hammer more the american navvy haway in that moment could be invaded by japan and the was could be finish in different way, off course USA it so big and strong economically but if jap0anese followed to hammer american flet Japan could be having anothe end, off course the atomic bom was one hammer in the japanese head as beat ine toddler by cassius clay off course in faithing any one use the power he have, japanese used kamikaze with successifull and american two atomic bomb , if they had niot the atomic i think wasd there combatting till now

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Could Japan have won if they lost?

    Interesting discussion. It occurs to me that, even if Japan had adopted a "luring in" strategy, this would have amounted to an alternative means of engineering a "decisive battle". "Decisive battle", in this sense, was essentially a Western concept that had crystallised in the thinking of Clausewitz, and had been adopted by the Japanese wholesale. Hardly surprising; such experience as they had in foreign wars up to 1941 tended to confirm that this was the correct approach. As for the "luring on" option itself - I suppose a "Japanese Manstein" might have advocated such an idea, but there was no "Japanese Manstein". In any event - like most "classic Manstein" plans - it would have been ultra-high risk. It seems to me that Japan's hopes of victory lay in a delusion, a misinterpretation of the USA as a "soft", decadent country that, faced with the certainty of a bloody and economically costly war, would tolerate Japanese rule/hegemony in the Western Pacific and Far East, even when this had been achieved by military means directed in part against US forces and territory. This was a disastrous error. I do not believe that, following an outrage like Pearl Harbour - however "successful" such an incident might have been in pure military terms - there is any way that the US would have held back from exacting full retribution from Japan, however great the cost might have been in blood and treasure. There are, of course, no absolute certainties - but I find it hard to see how Japan, really, had much hope of achieving the favourable, but necessarily partial, victory over the US that they seem to have desired. Best regards, JR.
    Last edited by JR*; 07-11-2012 at 08:30 AM. Reason: typo

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Could Japan have won if they lost?

    It should be noted that the Pearl Harbor operation was essentially a mixed bag and was not completely successful as they missed the carriers, hit mostly obsolete battleships or ones nearing obsolescence...

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Could Japan have won if they lost?

    A good point, Nick. Without wishing to trivialise, I am reminded of a scene in the Mel Brooks movie, "Blazing Saddles" in which a man-mountain called "Mongo" appears. "Don't shoot him," says the Sheriff, "it'll only make him mad". In a way, however successful it might have been, Pearl Harbour was a Japanese way of, so to speak, shooting Mongo ... Best regards, JR.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Could Japan have won if they lost?

    LOL @ the 2:15 mark.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwNJla8WvoY

    I forgot to mention the biggest single failure of the Japanese airstrike was not hitting the fuel storage depots. Whether this would have made any difference in the grand scheme of the war I don't know. But it would have set the U.S. Navy back several months at least IIRC...

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Could Japan have won if they lost?

    It should be noted that the Pearl Harbor operation was essentially a mixed bag and was not completely successful as they missed the carriers, hit mostly obsolete battleships or ones nearing obsolescence...
    Its' irony , but this statement is one basic argment of revisionists.The japanese actually targeted what they've found in harbour.COuld it be possible the US navy command deliberately send out the modern aircraft carriers , leaving the obsolet battleships in harbour, expecting ( or provoking) the Japanese strike?

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Could Japan have won if they lost?

    The us command havent sent out the moder carier , the US did not know and did not immagine, Hirohito did not listen the adveise of many admirals that suggested to get peral harbuor and made it as a base for bonb USA, so politic won again on soldiers

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Could Japan have won if they lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chevan View Post
    Its' irony , but this statement is one basic argment of revisionists.The japanese actually targeted what they've found in harbour.COuld it be possible the US navy command deliberately send out the modern aircraft carriers , leaving the obsolet battleships in harbour, expecting ( or provoking) the Japanese strike?
    The Americans were clearly expecting hostilities. But the revisionist argument misses the fact that the aircraft carriers were ferrying aircraft to island bases where the Japanese hostilities were considered likely. I'll have to check, but I believe one of the islands that received fighters was Midway...

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