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Thread: Insider's Story of Hess' Flight

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Insider's Story of Hess' Flight

    Quote Originally Posted by kurt View Post
    Wrong, France and England declare war to Germany on September 3 1939, not the opposite.
    Might this have had something to do with Germany marching into Poland?

    Or did Britain and France do that as well?

    Not to mention Britain and France staging the Gleiwitz incident, cunningly disguised as Poles cunningly concealing their true Nazi identities.

    Get a grip on reality, for Christ's sake!

    Quote Originally Posted by kurt View Post
    Furthermore Roosevelt's Lend and Lease Law was a virtual war declaration on Germany, Russia only survived the struggle with that help, as it is recognized for the russian nowadays
    So how do you deal with Ford and GM supplying materiel to Germany before Germany declared war on the US?

    Was this a declaration of war by the US on Britain?

    Selective and distorted 'facts' prove nothing, apart from the bias or lack of understanding of the person putting them forward.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Insider's Story of Hess' Flight

    Quote Originally Posted by Typokitty View Post
    I wasn't trolling - I was enjoying a discussion. I have not been flaming ,rude, or obnoxious and I research others points as well as mine.
    Then answer my posts above with your research.

    Quote Originally Posted by Typokitty View Post
    So you wish me to stop having a calm,civilized discussion ?
    No, I wish you to stop spouting nonsense which borders on trolling, or just plain stupidity.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Insider's Story of Hess' Flight

    Quote Originally Posted by kurt View Post
    Wrong,
    What do you mean? How is he wrong? We're borderline trolling here...

    France and England declare war to Germany on September 3 1939, not the opposite.
    As they were obligated to do by treaty as German launched a war of aggression against the Poles after already illegally subjugating several autonomous states and getting away with it...

    Furthermore Roosevelt's Lend and Lease Law was a virtual war declaration on Germany, Russia only survived the struggle with that help, as it is recognized for the russian nowadays,

    http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/...roosevelt.html
    Why? If Germany can profit from war, why couldn't the United States cashier on its armaments industry? And Lend Lease to the Soviet Union only reached significant quantities to make a difference well after America's entry into the war. Your "Germany as victim" stance here is getting nauseating...

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Insider's Story of Hess' Flight

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    As they were obligated to do by treaty as German launched a war of aggression against the Poles after already illegally subjugating several autonomous states and getting away with it...

    Why? If Germany can profit from war, why couldn't the United States cashier on its armaments industry? And Lend Lease to the Soviet Union only reached significant quantities to make a difference well after America's entry into the war.
    Oh, yes!

    Unilaterally introduce facts and logic!

    What sort of argument is that?
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Insider's Story of Hess' Flight

    BELIEFS :
    “Hitler was right in one thing. He calls the Jewish people a race and we are a race.” - The leader of American Jewry in the 1930s, Rabbi Stephen F. Wise N.Y. Herald-Tribune, June 13, 1938.

    …The Jews are divided into two categories, those who admit they belong to a race distinguished by a history thousands of years old, and those who don’t. The latter are open to the charge of dishonesty. - Nahum Goldman, former president of the World Zionist Organization

    “If Israel had not come into existence after World War II then I am certain the Jewish race wouldn’t have survived…I stand before you and say you must strengthen your commitment to Israel.” - former Israeli Prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu

    An editorial entitled “Some Other Race” in the New York weekly Forward (A very prestigious Jewish publication) urges Jews to list themselves on the U.S. Government census form as a race. It goes on to suggest:

    “… On question eight [of the form, which asks about race], you might consider doing what more than one member of our redaktzia [editorial staff] has done: checking the box ’some other race’ and writing in the word ‘Jew’.”

    "You cannot be English Jews. We are a race, and only as a race can we perpetuate. Our mentality is of a Hebraic character, and differs from that of an Englishman. Enough subterfuges! Let us assert openly that we are International Jews." - Gerald Soman, Chairman of the World Jewry Fellowship, in its official manifesto, January 1, 1935.

    You can find this here :
    http://www.libreopinion.com/members/...uestion07.html
    http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Othe...JewsOnJews.htm
    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n2p63_Weber.html

    Scientific Key Findings :

    Key findings:
    # The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite. The Israelite haplotypes fall into Y-DNA haplogroups J and E.
    # Ashkenazim also descend, in a smaller way, from European peoples from the northern Mediterranean region and even less from Slavs and Khazars. The non-Israelite Y-DNA haplogroups include Q (typically Central Asian) and R1a1 (typically Eastern European).
    # Dutch Jews from the Netherlands also descend from northwestern Europeans.
    # Sephardim also descend, in a smaller way, from various non-Israelite peoples.
    # Georgian Jews (Gruzinim) are a mix of Georgians and Israelites.
    # Yemenite Jews (Temanim) are a mix of Yemenite Arabs and Israelites.
    # Moroccan Jews, Algerian Jews, and Tunisian Jews are mainly Israelites.
    # Libyan Jews are mainly Israelites who may have mixed somewhat with Berbers.
    # Ethiopian Jews are almost exclusively Ethiopian, with little or no Israelite ancestry.
    # Bene Israel Jews and Cochin Jews of India have much Indian ancestry in their mtDNA.
    # Palestinian Arabs are probably partly Israelite.

    Found here : http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html

    Clearly science and belifes have very litle to do with each other, however for me personally , it matters not what science says if someone ,or group of people adhere to specific belief. For them it is their reality and with respect to them, it can not be discounted by science.Therfor I shall address them in the manor they wish to be addressed.This is not a matter of being "wanker" or a "flamer". Simply giving respect to their own beliefs.
    However you were correct about Hitler/Napolian / Russia. I got their winter champaigns mixed up with the start dates of the respective wars. I still hold that attacking Russia in winter ,on foot, pure stupidity. He should have taken out Moscow in the early summer.as he was advised. By the fall he wold have had all ,or 90%, of Russia. The Russians looked upon Hitler as libertor and welcomed him. ( Yes Stalin was THAT bad )

    Bugay NF L. Beria - I. Stalin: Under your orders... p.146.
    "In units of the German army, deployed in the Crimea, there were roughly more than 20 thousands of Crimean Tatars”
    “Azat Crum” (paper of Crimean Tatars 1942-1944)
    20.03.1942 : “Together with the glorious German brothers that liberate Eastern world, we, the Crimean Tatars, declare the whole world that we have not forgotten the solemn promises of Churchill in Washington, his desire to revive Zhydivsky (Jewish) power in Palestine, his desire to destroy Turkey, to seize Istanbul and the Dardanelles , to raise a rebellion in Turkey and Afghanistan, etc. etc. East is waiting for its liberation not from Democratic liars and swindlers, but from the National Socialist Party and Adolf Hitler the Liberator. We gave an oath to make sacrifices for such a sacred task.”
    10.04.1942: “With the arrival into the Crimea the valiant sons of the Great Germany with your blessings and in memory of long years of friendship we, Muslims, stood shoulder to shoulder with the German people, we took up arms and started our fight for your great universal ideas - the destruction of the red-Zhydivsky (Jewish) Bolshevik plague to the end and the last drop of blood…”
    But its true that many were fighting against Hitler, 6 were given the Hero of the Soviet Union.

    There is a very interesting PDF here if you care to read :
    http://tinyurl.com/iccrimea

    I will continue to answer your demand for facts of my opinions after I reread your requests.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Insider's Story of Hess' Flight

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    With specific reference to how the 'free labour' was critical to Germany's Depression era economy when there was virtually no 'free labour' and comparing this to the wartime resources diverted to capturing, transporting, accommodating, supervising, guarding and, somewhat pointlessly, working the 'free labour' to death as well as killing it.

    They were needed, it was true. Their physical strength was needed for work on the land, in the stone-quarries, on the roads, and in the factories. And as long as that strength accepted the compulsion laid upon it obediently and without complaint, so long it had by German favour the privilege of life. - by Alexander Janta
    Excerpt from "I Lied to Live; A Year as a German Family Slave," New York, Roy Publishers,1944
    http://info-poland.buffalo.edu/classroom/slave.html


    As early as 1937, the Nazis increasingly exploited the forced labor of so-called "enemies of the state" for economic gain and to meet desperate labor shortages. - United States Holocaust Memorial Museum http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article....uleId=10005180

    Ostarbeiter Slave Labor

    Germany faced a crisis at the end of 1941 because after it had mobilized its massive armies, a shortage of workers developed in Germany to support the war industry. Hermann Goering at first thought "the best thing would be to kill all men in Ukraine over fifteen years of age" but then realized working them to death was more useful for the German Reich. He decided to bring in people from Ukraine, called Ostarbeiter (east workers), to work in German war industries. A recruiting campaign in Ukraine was carried out in January 1942 by Fritz Sauckel for workers to go to Germany. "On January 28th the first special train will leave for Germany with hot meals in Kiev, Zdolbunov and Peremyshl" offered an announcement. The first train was full on January 22. - Ostarbeiter Slave Labor
    by Andrew Gregorovich
    http://www.infoukes.com/history/ww2/page-12.html
    So that being said - YES Germany needed and used slave labor for their factories ,roads, and so on.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Insider's Story of Hess' Flight

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Exactly what heinous things did FDR do without which we might not have heard of Hitler? Fail to stop the Munich Putsch in 1923, nearly a decade before FDR became President?

    I can't wait for this elucidation.



    Pearl Harbor: The Controversy Continues
    by Sheldon Richman, December 1991

    At 7:53 am. on Sunday, December 7, 1941, a Japanese force of 183 fighters, bombers, and torpedo planes struck the United States Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. Some 4,500 Americans were killed or wounded. As news of the surprise attack spread, William F. Friedman, an Army cryptanalyst who had helped to break the Japanese diplomatic "Purple" code, said to his wife repeatedly, "But they knew, they knew, they knew."

    Meanwhile, the British doubleagent Dusko Popov got an incomplete account of the attack while aboard a tramp steamer. He assumed the Americans had been ready for the Japanese attack — it was he who had given the FBI the Japanese plans for the air raid. Popov would recall, "I was sure the American fleet had scored a great victory over the Japanese. I was very, very proud that I had been able to give the warning to the Americans four months in advance. What a reception the Japanese must have had!"

    http://www.fff.org/freedom/1291c.asp

    OPERATION KEELHAUL: http://us.altermedia.info/news-of-in...ocity_865.html

    also HERE : http://www.scripturesforamerica.org/html2/jm0053.htm

    There are many such instances for this sort to be found. And since now I feel like I am doing your research for you - your turn - rebuttals ?

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Insider's Story of Hess' Flight

    Quote Originally Posted by Typokitty View Post
    Pearl Harbor: The Controversy Continues
    by Sheldon Richman, December 1991

    At 7:53 am. on Sunday, December 7, 1941, a Japanese force of 183 fighters, bombers, and torpedo planes struck the United States Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. Some 4,500 Americans were killed or wounded. As news of the surprise attack spread, William F. Friedman, an Army cryptanalyst who had helped to break the Japanese diplomatic "Purple" code, said to his wife repeatedly, "But they knew, they knew, they knew."
    "They knew" what exactly?

    Meanwhile, the British doubleagent Dusko Popov got an incomplete account of the attack while aboard a tramp steamer. He assumed the Americans had been ready for the Japanese attack — it was he who had given the FBI the Japanese plans for the air raid. Popov would recall, "I was sure the American fleet had scored a great victory over the Japanese. I was very, very proud that I had been able to give the warning to the Americans four months in advance. What a reception the Japanese must have had!"
    Um, you mean Agent "Tricycle?" (We won't go into the origins of his codename here ).

    According to Wiki, he merely informed the FBI that the Germans had some interest in the bases around Pearl, but no specifics were given as to when or how a Japanese attack would take place...

    http://www.fff.org/freedom/1291c.asp

    OPERATION KEELHAUL: http://us.altermedia.info/news-of-in...ocity_865.html

    also HERE : http://www.scripturesforamerica.org/html2/jm0053.htm

    There are many such instances for this sort to be found. And since now I feel like I am doing your research for you - your turn - rebuttals ?
    The rebuttal is that much of the "U.S. Gov't knew about Pearl Harbor" stuff is typical, selectively edited conspiracy crap made up by pseudo-historians with questionable scholarship. The Americans DID in fact know an attack was coming in late November to mid-December of 1941, but they never believed the Japanese would have the audacity to attack Pearl Harbor and assumed hostilities would begin on the outer rim of the United States and allied European territories in the Pacific...

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Insider's Story of Hess' Flight

    Quote Originally Posted by Typokitty View Post
    BELIEFS :
    “Hitler was right in one thing. He calls the Jewish people a race and we are a race.” - The leader of American Jewry in the 1930s, Rabbi Stephen F. Wise N.Y. Herald-Tribune, June 13, 1938.

    …The Jews are divided into two categories, those who admit they belong to a race distinguished by a history thousands of years old, and those who don’t. The latter are open to the charge of dishonesty. - Nahum Goldman, former president of the World Zionist Organization

    “If Israel had not come into existence after World War II then I am certain the Jewish race wouldn’t have survived…I stand before you and say you must strengthen your commitment to Israel.” - former Israeli Prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu

    An editorial entitled “Some Other Race” in the New York weekly Forward (A very prestigious Jewish publication) urges Jews to list themselves on the U.S. Government census form as a race. It goes on to suggest:

    “… On question eight [of the form, which asks about race], you might consider doing what more than one member of our redaktzia [editorial staff] has done: checking the box ’some other race’ and writing in the word ‘Jew’.”

    "You cannot be English Jews. We are a race, and only as a race can we perpetuate. Our mentality is of a Hebraic character, and differs from that of an Englishman. Enough subterfuges! Let us assert openly that we are International Jews." - Gerald Soman, Chairman of the World Jewry Fellowship, in its official manifesto, January 1, 1935.

    You can find this here :
    http://www.libreopinion.com/members/...uestion07.html
    http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Othe...JewsOnJews.htm
    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n2p63_Weber.html

    Scientific Key Findings :

    Key findings:
    # The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite. The Israelite haplotypes fall into Y-DNA haplogroups J and E.
    # Ashkenazim also descend, in a smaller way, from European peoples from the northern Mediterranean region and even less from Slavs and Khazars. The non-Israelite Y-DNA haplogroups include Q (typically Central Asian) and R1a1 (typically Eastern European).
    # Dutch Jews from the Netherlands also descend from northwestern Europeans.
    # Sephardim also descend, in a smaller way, from various non-Israelite peoples.
    # Georgian Jews (Gruzinim) are a mix of Georgians and Israelites.
    # Yemenite Jews (Temanim) are a mix of Yemenite Arabs and Israelites.
    # Moroccan Jews, Algerian Jews, and Tunisian Jews are mainly Israelites.
    # Libyan Jews are mainly Israelites who may have mixed somewhat with Berbers.
    # Ethiopian Jews are almost exclusively Ethiopian, with little or no Israelite ancestry.
    # Bene Israel Jews and Cochin Jews of India have much Indian ancestry in their mtDNA.
    # Palestinian Arabs are probably partly Israelite.

    Found here : http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html

    Clearly science and belifes have very litle to do with each other, however for me personally , it matters not what science says if someone ,or group of people adhere to specific belief. For them it is their reality and with respect to them, it can not be discounted by science.Therfor I shall address them in the manor they wish to be addressed.This is not a matter of being "wanker" or a "flamer". Simply giving respect to their own beliefs.
    However you were correct about Hitler/Napolian / Russia. I got their winter champaigns mixed up with the start dates of the respective wars. I still hold that attacking Russia in winter ,on foot, pure stupidity. He should have taken out Moscow in the early summer.as he was advised. By the fall he wold have had all ,or 90%, of Russia. The Russians looked upon Hitler as libertor and welcomed him. ( Yes Stalin was THAT bad )

    Bugay NF L. Beria - I. Stalin: Under your orders... p.146.
    "In units of the German army, deployed in the Crimea, there were roughly more than 20 thousands of Crimean Tatars”
    “Azat Crum” (paper of Crimean Tatars 1942-1944)
    20.03.1942 : “Together with the glorious German brothers that liberate Eastern world, we, the Crimean Tatars, declare the whole world that we have not forgotten the solemn promises of Churchill in Washington, his desire to revive Zhydivsky (Jewish) power in Palestine, his desire to destroy Turkey, to seize Istanbul and the Dardanelles , to raise a rebellion in Turkey and Afghanistan, etc. etc. East is waiting for its liberation not from Democratic liars and swindlers, but from the National Socialist Party and Adolf Hitler the Liberator. We gave an oath to make sacrifices for such a sacred task.”
    10.04.1942: “With the arrival into the Crimea the valiant sons of the Great Germany with your blessings and in memory of long years of friendship we, Muslims, stood shoulder to shoulder with the German people, we took up arms and started our fight for your great universal ideas - the destruction of the red-Zhydivsky (Jewish) Bolshevik plague to the end and the last drop of blood…”
    But its true that many were fighting against Hitler, 6 were given the Hero of the Soviet Union.

    There is a very interesting PDF here if you care to read :
    http://tinyurl.com/iccrimea

    I will continue to answer your demand for facts of my opinions after I reread your requests.
    These are called "opinions." Try not to confuse opines with facts and try not to think you're dazzling us with cut-and-pastes from Google-mania...

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Insider's Story of Hess' Flight

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    These are called "opinions." Try not to confuse opines with facts and try not to think you're dazzling us with cut-and-pastes from Google-mania...
    He asked for proof of my opinions and I was fulfilling his request. I am not the one whom is having issues about the differences thereof. As for "dazzling" I could care less as I am here to hear and discuss opinions and glean a few facts if they are about.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Insider's Story of Hess' Flight

    Quote Originally Posted by Typokitty View Post
    He asked for proof of my opinions and I was fulfilling his request. I am not the one whom is having issues about the differences thereof. As for "dazzling" I could care less as I am here to hear and discuss opinions and glean a few facts if they are about.
    Using questionable internet links isn't "proof" of anything, in fact it's borderline spamming. This thread has nothing to do with Pearl Harbor or nitwitted conspiracy theories, and I suggest you do care, because your "discussion" seems to be more about derailing things...

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Insider's Story of Hess' Flight

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Um, you mean Agent "Tricycle?" (We won't go into the origins of his codename here ).
    LMAO I've never heard him referred to by that name
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    According to Wiki, he merely informed the FBI that the Germans had some interest in the bases around Pearl, but no specifics were given as to when or how a Japanese attack would take place...
    Wiki is not a reliable source for info, so I rarely use it except maps and very basic info - then it is researched independently

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    The rebuttal is that much of the "U.S. Gov't knew about Pearl Harbor" stuff is typical, selectively edited conspiracy crap made up by pseudo-historians with questionable scholarship. The Americans DID in fact know an attack was coming in late November to mid-December of 1941, but they never believed the Japanese would have the audacity to attack Pearl Harbor and assumed hostilities would begin on the outer rim of the United States and allied European territories in the Pacific...
    Even conspiracies have some truth to them. That is what I am looking for. The public has been lied to for so long .Why be complacent with the info that was spoon fed to you ? Why not research for yourself what the truth is ? It might be one nd the same - but it might not. Never know until you look for yourself

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Insider's Story of Hess' Flight

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Using questionable internet links isn't "proof" of anything, in fact it's borderline spamming. This thread has nothing to do with Pearl Harbor or nitwitted conspiracy theories, and I suggest you do care, because your "discussion" seems to be more about derailing things...
    When asked for examples ,examples were given. I get it - you give not time to conspiracy theories. And I am not the one demanding details of opinions .I would very much like to go back to Hess' flight as I too think this discussion has been derailed. Hess' flight is much more important than this idiotic attack on me and my opinions.

  14. #44
    kurt Guest

    Default Re: Insider's Story of Hess' Flight

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Might this have had something to do with Germany marching into Poland?

    Or did Britain and France do that as well?

    Not to mention Britain and France staging the Gleiwitz incident, cunningly disguised as Poles cunningly concealing their true Nazi identities.

    Get a grip on reality, for Christ's sake!



    So how do you deal with Ford and GM supplying materiel to Germany before Germany declared war on the US?

    Was this a declaration of war by the US on Britain?

    Selective and distorted 'facts' prove nothing, apart from the bias or lack of understanding of the person putting them forward.
    I'm sorry but it looks to me that you need to face reality, GM and Ford supporting Germany???
    this is the summary of the costs and beneficiaries of Lend and Leasing Law:
    All told, Lend-Lease provided $50.1 billion worth of supplies to the Allies during the conflict, with $31.4 billion to Britain, $11.3 billion to the Soviet Union, $3.2 billion to France and $1.6 billion to China.
    I can not find Germany on that account.
    Anyone who is interested in this issue can find a detailed information about the thousands of tanks, planes,submarines,ships, aluminium, locomotives, etc, etc, etc that were delivered to the british and russians before Pearl Harbour.

    What I'm trying to explain is that the Soviets invaded Poland as well as Germany,just two weeks after , then, why didn't the allies declare war to the Soviet Union according to their will of protecting Poland??
    Instead of that, they helped Stalin, a tyrant compared to whom Hitler was a rookie,

    And if this was made in the sake of freedom, Eastern Europe lost it in the hands of the Red Army and was put in the darkness for 40 years, behind the iron curtain.

    And for Mr. Nickdfresh, explain me what do you consider trolling, I can not find a proper translation for that word, but here we have been sharing ideas and information, if that is trolling, ok.

    And for Tippokitty, you are in the right track, don't take anything for granted, find out for yourself.
    It' is not that difficult to find the truth, it's far more difficult to handle it ( as Jack Nicholson said in a movie) Try not filling your heart with any rancor or anger.

    Respectfully,
    Last edited by kurt; 07-03-2010 at 07:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Insider's Story of Hess' Flight

    Mssr's Kurt, and Typokitty, This thread deals with Rudolph Hess' flight to England, not Israel, or Pearl Harbor. From now on, you will both confine your comments to that subject. Any further wandering in this thread will bring swift attention.

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