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View Poll Results: Shold Rudolph Hess have been kept in Prison for all of his life?

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  • Yes

    8 38.10%
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    10 47.62%
  • Serve 10 years or under

    1 4.76%
  • Serve 20 years or under

    2 9.52%
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Thread: Should Rudolph Hess have been kept in Prison for all his lfe?

  1. #1
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    Default Should Rudolph Hess have been kept in Prison for all his lfe?

    Hess remained in prison until his death.The question I pose is,was this right? All other inmates of Spandau Prison;Donitz,Von Schirach,Speer,were all released after serving their time and it can be argued that they had a greater impact on the war than Hess.Should Hess have been released after serving a specific number of years?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Should Rudolph Hess have been kept in Prison for all his lfe?

    I have no suggestion as to time served, but it certainly is a curious subject.
    The Russians wanted him dead.
    From all appearances, the man was insane.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Should Rudolph Hess have been kept in Prison for all his lfe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie View Post
    Hess remained in prison until his death.The question I pose is,was this right? All other inmates of Spandau Prison;Donitz,Von Schirach,Speer,were all released after serving their time and it can be argued that they had a greater impact on the war than Hess.Should Hess have been released after serving a specific number of years?
    It was at least as 'right' (in the sense of being inexplicable) as not executing Speer.

    Maybe the question you should ask is: Why did the Allies keep in prison a nutcase who left Germany well before the invasion of the Soviet Union and well before the Holocaust moved into top gear, yet they released Speer etc who were much more directly involved in war crimes and crimes against humanity?

    I have no idea what the answer is, but it makes no sense that Hess should have been regarded as a greater war criminal than Speer etc.

    I don't like conspiracy theories, but if one looks at Hess from the moment of his capture in Scotland and the subsequent gaps in his custody and interrogation records then one has to wonder what the hell was going on from the very beginning and why he served more time than many others who did a lot more than him in the way of war crimes and crimes against humanity.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Should Rudolph Hess have been kept in Prison for all his lfe?

    Hess was imprisoned for "crimes against peace" According to wiki : A crime against peace, in international law, refers to "planning, preparation, initiation, or waging of wars of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the foregoing" [1]. This definition of crimes against peace was first incorporated into the Nuremberg Principles and later included in the United Nations Charter. This definition would play a part in defining aggression as a crime against peace.

    An important exception to the foregoing are defensive military actions taken under Article 51 of the UN Charter. Such defensive actions are subject to immediate Security Council review, but do not require UN permission to be legal within international law. "Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations." (UN Charter, Article 51) The Security Council will determine if the action is legally the "right of individual or collective self-defense", or it may appoint another UN organ to do this.

    So lets look at this : The only thing that Hess could have been POSSIBLY held partially to blame for was the breech of Barbarossa .

  5. #5
    kurt Guest

    Default Re: Should Rudolph Hess have been kept in Prison for all his lfe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Typokitty View Post
    Hess was imprisoned for "crimes against peace" According to wiki : A crime against peace, in international law, refers to "planning, preparation, initiation, or waging of wars of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the foregoing" [1]. This definition of crimes against peace was first incorporated into the Nuremberg Principles and later included in the United Nations Charter. This definition would play a part in defining aggression as a crime against peace.

    An important exception to the foregoing are defensive military actions taken under Article 51 of the UN Charter. Such defensive actions are subject to immediate Security Council review, but do not require UN permission to be legal within international law. "Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations." (UN Charter, Article 51) The Security Council will determine if the action is legally the "right of individual or collective self-defense", or it may appoint another UN organ to do this.

    So lets look at this : The only thing that Hess could have been POSSIBLY held partially to blame for was the breech of Barbarossa .
    Crimes against peace?, which was the purpose of Hess flight to England in the first place?,as it has been generally regarded ,he was looking for a peace treaty with Britain, whether it was Hitler ofert or an insane Hess dream is secondary. Hence, crimes against peace is a ludicrous accusation.
    I think he knew many things very uncomfortable for the official history and dangerous for some politicians involved in negotiations with Hitler's Germany on those days.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Should Rudolph Hess have been kept in Prison for all his lfe?

    Well, if he really knew too much about possible peace negotiations with the allies, conspiracy against the uk government and all, then surely it would have been much easier to have him accidentally expire before 1945.

    In that sense, it doesn't make sense, if I'm even making sense now?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Should Rudolph Hess have been kept in Prison for all his lfe?

    The whole situation leads to lots of other unanswered questions - like why was Stalin and FDR not tried for war crimes along with Hitlers men ? Stalin himself carried out ,blow by blow , many more war crimes against his own people than Hitler IMO. Hess was indeed only a minor character in this theater. The Russians wanted him dead and so did FDR/ US Government as Hess was the only one living whom could have shed a light on the crimes involved in WW2. Hess was a public figure and even after the war - still had a TON of credibility amongst the people. They couldn't just kill him, nor could they afford to release him.

  8. #8
    kurt Guest

    Default Re: Should Rudolph Hess have been kept in Prison for all his lfe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Typokitty View Post
    The whole situation leads to lots of other unanswered questions - like why was Stalin and FDR not tried for war crimes along with Hitlers men ? Stalin himself carried out ,blow by blow , many more war crimes against his own people than Hitler IMO. Hess was indeed only a minor character in this theater. The Russians wanted him dead and so did FDR/ US Government as Hess was the only one living whom could have shed a light on the crimes involved in WW2. Hess was a public figure and even after the war - still had a TON of credibility amongst the people. They couldn't just kill him, nor could they afford to release him.
    It is a great mistery indeed, paying the expenses of one hundred people to mantain a jail fortress for and old, sick , insane prisoner during 40 years, while Speer and others who had more responsibility and participation during the war were released in 1966. Doesn´t make any sense, but it was a great cruelty IMO.

  9. #9
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    Post Re: Should Rudolph Hess have been kept in Prison for all his lfe?

    As I have noted elsewhere on this forum, I do not believe the "Official story" regarding Hess.
    My neighbour for many years, now deceased, actually saw Hess emerge from the Me. 110 he had flown to Britain, and landed in Yorkshire, NOT Scotland.

    Why was the Me.110 subsequently described as having been "shot down and crash landed over Scotland"?

    It would have been simplicity itself to have had a Test-Pilot from AEE fly the Me. 110 to where it was shot down, and have another Test-Pilot fly the aircraft from which the bullets were fired to destroy the Me.110.
    It would have been equally simple to have shot the Me.110 up on the ground, then blown it up with demolition charges to simulate an air-to-air attack and "defeat". Photographs of "The wreckage of Hess's Me.110 aircraft" could then have been taken and published.
    This would then lend "authenticity" in the public mind, as to the cover story devised to obscure not only Hess arriving in the UK, but his reasons for doing so, and the subsequent reasons for keeping him alive, yet imprisoned.

    Subsequent writing up of these events would have been simplicity itself as well, due to the "D Notice" Legislation in enforcement at the time. Expressed at it simplest: Nothing the UK Government did not want published EVER appeared in print at all, during WW2, with the well-known and coincidental exceptions of the "Overlord" Crossword puzzle episode, and one or two other lesser cases.

    All of which brings us to the puzzling question of motive, NOT on the part of Hess ( albeit that itself is not sufficiently explained, even to this day), but rather, on the part of the UK Government in particular for wanting Hess kept both alive and imprisoned.
    My own thoughts on the UK Government motive in this have traversed many areas, over the years.
    I'm no "conspiracy theory" buff: gods know, there are enough of those running loose.
    However: the Hess case may very well be that rare, and genuine exception that "proves the rule", as`twere.

    I have three major thoughts regarding the UK Govt. motive. None makes for pleasant contemplation.

    Thought A:
    Hess brought with him a list of known NSDAP sympathisers, in UK, USA, France, Spain, USSR, and possibly other parts of Europe and South America.

    Thought B:
    Hess brought with him a list of names among whom were those later to be associated with Philby, Burgess, Maclean and Blunt (Cairncross et al, as alleged by Chapman Pincher in various books).

    Thought C:
    Hess brought confirmation of some key details of "The Oslo Letter" which itself gave details of planned German technological developments, including Enigma (The Cypher machine), the A4 (which is commonly called the V2 rocket), the Fzg 76 (which is commonly called the V1, "Buzzbomb" or "Doodlebug), and various other technological research.

    Any one of the above would be more than sufficient to keep Hess imprisoned, but yet left alive for later reference or interrogation if required.

    Which of the above thoughts may prove to be the case, is yet to be proven, and may never be.
    I freely admit that.
    However, they seem to be the most logical, and most likely, which is probably as close as anyone on this forum is likely to get to whatever truths may be known of the matter. I humbly present them accordingly, for the consideration of my fellow Forum members.

    As to "Should Hess have been kept imprisoned all of his life?" : I do not now, nor have I ever believed he should have been. It was painfully obvious by 1970 that the man was No threat to anybody, least of all any of the Allied Governments. Hess, even as a free man, would never have gathered sufficient support to re-invigorate NSDAP-style beliefs in any population-group. Nor, despite his association with Adolf Hitler, would he have had the commanding presence necessary to accomplish that.
    In my view, Hess should have been released in 1976. He'd at least have had some kind of life as a decent human being, even if as has been said, he was not a particularly shining example of decency. It would have been an act of Clemency worthy of the Victors, to have released Hess at that stage.

    Kind and Respectful Regards, Uyraell.

    "Honi-Soit Qui Mal'Y Pense." :
    "Ill unto he who ill of it thinks."
    Edward III, Rex Britania, AD1348.

    "Wenn Schon, denn schon."
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    Known German adage.

    "Until you have looked into a veteran's eyes and actually seen it,
    you'll never fully understand."
    ^Uyraell^

    "Aligaes : Amore vel Ira." :
    "^Winged Ones^ : Love or Wrath."

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Should Rudolph Hess have been kept in Prison for all his lfe?

    I rather suspect that had Hess been released alongside the other inmates he would have withdrawn into quiet obscurity. I do not know whether he would have been seen in TV interviews like Albert Speer, but I am quite certain that no 4th Reich would hae grown up around him. As it was, the conspiracy theories surrounding his death have allowed him to be seen as the last of the Nazi martyrs, in a line stretching back to the Beer Hall Putsch. That is why he is venerated by Nazi groups today.
    When one considers the somewhat dubious legal basis for the Nurenberg trials (i.e. breaking of laws that were not written at the time of the offence) surely a little clemency, even a little late in the day, would be no bad thing.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Should Rudolph Hess have been kept in Prison for all his lfe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uyraell View Post

    Subsequent writing up of these events would have been simplicity itself as well, due to the "D Notice" Legislation in enforcement at the time. Expressed at it simplest: Nothing the UK Government did not want published EVER appeared in print at all,
    Ah the good old 'D' notice. Exists for very good reasons, and if they decided that Hess's landing and subsequent internment needed to be suppressed then its all for the best.

    That aside and returning to the original question should Rudolph Hess have been kept in prison for all his life?

    Did the SS put people in concentration camps (i.e. political prisoners)? Yes
    Did the Nazis 'liquidate' the mentally ill and disabled? Yes
    Was he a senior Nazi? Yes
    Was he head of the SS? Yes

    Therefore he was a scumbag like the rest of the Nazis/SS and he deserved life, and yes I know there were some good SS men but he was head honcho (until he flew to the UK) and therefore is responsible for their crimes.
    "There is no country on the face of the earth to which the principle of citizen-soldiership is so well adapted as our own, for the freedom possessed by Britons is of so general and real a character as to cause the humblest in the land to feel deeply the neccessity of preserving the safety and independence of the nation of which he is a part"

    The Volunteer's book of facts 1863

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Should Rudolph Hess have been kept in Prison for all his lfe?

    Hess was a top Nazi.

    Should he have been in prison for life?

    No. He should have been hung with the rest.
    “We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality” Ayn Rand

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Should Rudolph Hess have been kept in Prison for all his lfe?

    Forgive me sir, but I see no justification whatsoever for hanging Rudolf Hess. A top Nazi he may have been, but by the time of the most condemned actions of the regime he was already languishing in Britain. Not to mention that he may even have lacked sufficient mental faculties to stand trial in the first place. That is the difficulty with the victor sitting in judgement over the vanquished, they often have more interest in making examples that seeing justice done.
    Perhaps Hess could have been confined to an asylum, but hanging would be entirely vindictive and unjust, as indeed was a lifetime behind bars.
    There is no harm in a little magnanimity in victory.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Should Rudolph Hess have been kept in Prison for all his lfe?

    Hess knew well about the death camps. Millions died. So where is the magnanimity for them?

    See if he had killed just a few as part of a common robbery you could give him death, but when millions die, why that number just kind of numbs many people.

    They don't even comprehend so much suffering.

    Many Nazis never got what they deserved. But when you have them in your jails, give them what they deserve! At the minimum do it to send a message to all would-be tyrants.

    Deaf
    “We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality” Ayn Rand

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Should Rudolph Hess have been kept in Prison for all his lfe?

    Hess was a senior part of the Nazi dictatorship in any case. Whether he was directly involved with the Holocaust or not--or other Nazi crimes--he certainly knew about the criminal persecutions of his own countrymen, Jews, and of atrocities committed in Poland and the occupied West. Whether or not it was an injustice for him to have served life in prison, I could give a **** about him! He was far better off than many of the victims of the National Socialist movement that he was so much a cog in the machine of. I think a better question is whether or not it was a waste of taxpayer money to keep this POS alive for so long...

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