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Thread: Paratroopers

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Paratroopers

    Quote Originally Posted by bltjr1951 View Post
    In what year?
    If you want to challenge members' qualifications to express opinions, at least do them the courtesy of (a) reading their relevant posts which may contain the answer to your question and save you from embarrassing yourself by questioning someone who knows what they're talking about, and (b) respecting their service experience in general and their relevant specialist service experience in particular.

    In relation to (a) and (b) so far as forager is concerned, in #3 in this thread he said

    I went to jump school in 1967.
    I was on jump status 3 1/2 years.
    Look at his avatar and read some more of his posts in other threads and you'll see that he is eminently qualified to express an opinion on the matters you question. He is certainly a lot better qualified than the rest of us who have no difficulty with the notion that the best way to reach the ground from a serviceable aeroplane is to be aboard it when it lands uneventfully at a properly constructed aerodrome.

    Quote Originally Posted by bltjr1951 View Post
    In WW2 people were being trained to kill in a few weeks.
    Care to give some examples of American airborne troops doing this, or even any combat troops in any English-speaking army?

    Basic training typically took a few months in English-speaking armies, followed by corps training of a similar or longer period, followed for specialist troops such as airborne by another similar or longer period.

    As for US airborne, the 101st trained for about two years before going into action in 1944.
    Last edited by Rising Sun*; 06-26-2011 at 06:41 AM.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Paratroopers

    P.S.

    I wouldn't be surprised if some of forager's trainers at jump school in 1967 were WWII veterans, not least because I had WWII veterans training me a few years later, and if they passed on knowledge that allows him to express accurate opinions about WWII jumps.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Paratroopers

    Quote Originally Posted by bltjr1951 View Post
    Are you saying we shouldn't believe history books either?
    Why are kids going to school if that's true?
    I "quote" books I've read, not the fictional "Deathlands" or "Rat Bastards".
    Just because I saw it in a movie doesn't call for a quote either.
    As I said, read any non-fiction war book and learn what happened from the people that were there.
    I'm a 60 year old man, I've got a little more experience than some.
    I lost some kin folk in the war, my Grandmother worked for Boeing during that time, guess what she built.
    I "wasn't there" either, but I believe what she told me.
    In this day of "google" anyone can verify info about paratrooppers.
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/dday/sf...ratrooper.html
    http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com.../airborne.aspx
    http://www.508pir.org/archival/magazines/yank_02.htm
    Read any non-fiction WW2 para book.
    During war they went way beyond weight limits for ammo.
    Guys were jumping with/over their weight in gear.
    Experts now say it couldn't be done, yet they did it, history shows it.
    Unless you're the type that doesn't believe that the war happened.
    Ok where in any of those links does it say they discarded their emergency chutes or carried more weight than the chutes were allowed. It does say they carried up to their own weights, nothing new, soldiers have always carried heavy loads when on foot.

    In what year?
    In WW2 people were being trained to kill in a few weeks
    Basic training for British Soldiers in WW2 was 8 weeks, followed by specialist training afterwards, strangely its still the same now (I actually did 7 weeks basic before going onto specialist courses in 1983).

    Politeness and thought out posts get you further by the way.
    Last edited by leccy; 06-26-2011 at 07:58 AM. Reason: Added 2 x quotes and responded to them
    IN the days of lace-ruffles, perukes and brocade
    Brown Bess was a partner whom none could despise
    An out-spoken, flinty-lipped, brazen-faced jade,
    With a habit of looking men straight in the eyes
    At Blenheim and Ramillies fops would confess
    They were pierced to the heart by the charms of Brown Bess.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Paratroopers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Look at his avatar and read some more of his posts in other threads and you'll see that he is eminently qualified to express an opinion on the matters you question.
    Please read post #3.

    When I posted a link to an actual picture of WW2 with a "rope", did anyone say "yeah, they did have them"??
    http://www.history.com/topics/d-day/...pers-geared-up

    Any WW2 reenactor would back me up, cause they try to be as accurate as possible.
    Which is why they make repro let down ropes, if they didn't use them why make repros?

    Please read this story, you can find "reserve" to save time. I know, he's no "expert"
    http://www.pathfindergroupuk.com/2008%20part%202.htm

    From one WW2 book: "Fresh from basic training and four weeks jump school, they had arrived in Europe only a week or two before."
    Last edited by bltjr1951; 06-27-2011 at 10:05 PM.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Paratroopers

    Quote Originally Posted by bltjr1951 View Post
    Please read post #3.

    When I posted a link to an actual picture of WW2 with a "rope", did anyone say "yeah, they did have them"??
    http://www.history.com/topics/d-day/...pers-geared-up

    Any WW2 reenactor would back me up, cause they try to be as accurate as possible.
    Which is why they make repro let down ropes, if they didn't use them why make repros?

    Please read this story, you can find "reserve" to save time. I know, he's no "expert"
    http://www.pathfindergroupuk.com/2008%20part%202.htm

    From one WW2 book: "Fresh from basic training and four weeks jump school, they had arrived in Europe only a week or two before."
    WW2 re-enactors are not always correct or accurate, you get many different levels from the cool look type but not historically accurate, through the general idea is right all the way up to everything has to be original and perfect.

    Ok so the pathfinder site says they were not issued a reserve chute not that they chose not to take it to carry more ammunition there is a difference.

    Looks like these guys dropping wore reserve chutes
    US WW2 Paras
    US Paras Embarking
    US Para with 40kg of equipment
    And just to show I am not biased these have no reserve chute I can see.
    Italian Paras with British Equipment on Op Herring, 26th March 1945

    Seems it may have been down to the particular op as to whether they carried them or not and also what equipment they were issued.

    A quote you yourself just posted from the book about training length
    Fresh from basic training and four weeks jump school,
    Not that they only had a couple of weeks training as you had originally posted. So how long was basic training, also the part they had arrived in Europe only a week or two before, so they arrived in Europe after a long sea journey to do what, join the reserve pool, join a unit and do a combat jump, join in the line as ground infantry. You need to put a quote in the context it is written for it to make sense.
    IN the days of lace-ruffles, perukes and brocade
    Brown Bess was a partner whom none could despise
    An out-spoken, flinty-lipped, brazen-faced jade,
    With a habit of looking men straight in the eyes
    At Blenheim and Ramillies fops would confess
    They were pierced to the heart by the charms of Brown Bess.

  6. #36
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    Location
    midwest
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    201

    Default Re: Paratroopers

    My dad was 506th PIR. He joined them just after DDay and served througth the end.
    He was wounded at Eindhoven and reissued during the stand down before Bastogne.

    I once jumped a bunch of extra equipment on a training FTX.
    I was incapable of moving with all the gear and was manhandled into the plane by four guys and shoved out by them as well.
    As I mentioned, the drop bags were tethered by a 15 foot rope and we dropped them shortly before landing. This prevented oscillation which can kill you.
    Weight is not that big of an issue as long as you can enter and exit the AC.

    The training to combat in WW2, Korea and VN could be much shorter than some folks realize.
    A matter of weeks is not far off at all in many cases.
    The old 4 week jump school included a week of packing chutes-total waste of time and dropped early on.
    An airborne q'd troop could have been in VN in 20 weeks.
    Pretty much the same in WW2.
    I believe my dad did basic, AIT, jump school, and immediately went over as a replacement.
    Many of the guys I served with were old time paratroopers and sport jumpers.
    Many literally had thousands of jumps and lots of stories.
    There was a sport club at Ft Bragg and in 1967 there were guys with single digit "D" licenses.
    I made "Distinguished Honor Graduate" of my BAC in 1967. Got a trophy and a couple letters.
    I was very surprised even though I was very motivated.

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