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Thread: Research Help: 'Rocket' in footage.

  1. #1
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    Default Research Help: 'Rocket' in footage.

    I had purchased 'The World at War' collection from Time Life and was watching footage in Ep. 12. At 21:30 in the footage I saw a tremendous explosion tear an allied bomber apart in mid-air. I thought to myself, I had NEVER seen an explosion that massive, or in the location it took place on the aircraft in any film I had seen. I backed up the film and froze a frame in which it seems that a rocket engine driven projectile impacted the plane on its wing. I am attaching the still frame with this post and have hilighted the object I am talking about. I would reccomend viewing this sequence as well.
    I am posting this to have it out in the open and to gain some insight from this footage. I have tried to pinpoint the location and date of this footage but due to the nature of this compilation, it makes it EXTREMELY hard. I am asking for any information on the shown footage, any history of air to air weapons used of this type during this time, and for a possible confirmation on my thoughts. I also wonder if this clip was from some type of test footage of the weapon system and not actual combat footage. I speculate this due to the speed of the footage as well as the position of the camera.
    Any information would be helpful and I would encouage this post to be forwarded to where ever it would get the most attention.

    ~Thank you for your help!





    EDIT: I am having troubles getting the proper frame to attach. I will get it up asap.
    EDITEDIT: Posted photo.
    Last edited by Civi#1981; 10-23-2009 at 12:16 AM. Reason: Problem with attachment.

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    Default Re: Research Help: 'Rocket' in footage.

    ---ADMIN, Please move this topic to PHOTO RESEARCH---

    Thanks. Didn't see it in thread headers.

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    Default Re: Research Help: 'Rocket' in footage.

    Further research showes that the only types of "rockets" in development for air to air use in the 39-44 date range were; The Henschel Hs 298, The Kramer X-4, and the R4M. A quick look at the framed "rocket" and known pictutes of the three mentioned above do NOT look similar at all. Does this mean I should be looking for a surface to air rocket? There were some in development during this time as well, but some picture records are incomplete.

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    Default Re: Research Help: 'Rocket' in footage.

    Some marks of Fw-190 had rockets fitted for air-to-air work - thes eincluded not only rockets fired straight ahead, but also multiple rocket batteries fired near-vertically, fired as the fighter flew under (or was it over?) the bomber formation (I forget the German words, but the name translated as 'Organ Music').

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    Default Re: Research Help: 'Rocket' in footage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Civi#1981 View Post
    ---ADMIN, Please move this topic to PHOTO RESEARCH---

    Thanks. Didn't see it in thread headers.
    Done.
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

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    Default Re: Research Help: 'Rocket' in footage.

    Quote Originally Posted by R Mark Davies View Post
    Some marks of Fw-190 had rockets fitted for air-to-air work - thes eincluded not only rockets fired straight ahead, but also multiple rocket batteries fired near-vertically, fired as the fighter flew under (or was it over?) the bomber formation (I forget the German words, but the name translated as 'Organ Music').
    "Schräge Musik" (weird music) and, yes, they fired ahead.
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

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    Default Re: Research Help: 'Rocket' in footage.

    I was just posting a reply to Mark when I forgot to save my lengthly response and refreshed... I stumbled across this system as well. There was also a surface to air battery developed as well, the Taifun. (Typhoon) *((This was an unguided anti-aircraft weapon. It was a simple, 1.93m long, spin-stabilized rocket with a 0.5kg warhead. Taifun was accelerated to Mach 3+, and could reach altitudes up to 15000m. It was intended to fire salvos of 30 missiles. At the end of the war it was in mass production.))
    In summery of the lost post, I was going into the possiblity of a hybrid-type platform or rocket not intended for or modified for this role. The amount of experimentaition and design of 'terror weapons' or 'super weapons' was vague and wide-spread. I'm trying to stay focused though due to the amount of info I am coming across!

    One w/s I have found trolling was this one: *http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/Secweap.htm

    It has helped me do some picture comparisons via Google image search. Enjoy.

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    Default Re: Research Help: 'Rocket' in footage.

    Cheers, I thought I might be losing it... Despite being a Crab, I'm MUCH more interested in the Army's history these days, but it was all aeroplanes when I was a kid!

    Back in those days, I distinctly remember reading about the vertical-firing Fw-190 rocket system and the article was accompanied by a diagram that looked rather like someone had crossbred an Fw-190 with pan-pipes...
    Last edited by R Mark Davies; 10-24-2009 at 05:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Research Help: 'Rocket' in footage.

    Aha - a quick google for schraege-musik suggests that it was the name for upward-firing cannon rather than rockets...

    That nothwithstanding, the Fw-190 F8 had an opetion for forward-firing multiple rockets.

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    Default Re: Research Help: 'Rocket' in footage.

    When I first saw the picture attached to the OP, something bugged me, and has continued to do so.
    What would be wrong with thinking the weapon (that hit the B17 wing) to have been a WR 21? Certain FW190 A6's and A8's, along with certain Me 109 G's were equipped with either 4 x 15 cm or 2 x 21cm WR launch tubes (most usually the latter, two-tube, one under each wing, installation) with one electrically fired unguided missile in each tube.
    It would be very possible that one at least one occasion a successful attack using the WR weapon would have been photographed.

    I'm not saying my answer is the definitve one, but considering the various rocket-propelled projectiles in German use at the time, it is certainly the statistically most likely weapon to have been photographed in combat action.

    Regards, Uyraell.
    Last edited by Uyraell; 09-04-2010 at 11:46 PM. Reason: Typo.

    "Honi-Soit Qui Mal'Y Pense." :
    "Ill unto he who ill of it thinks."
    Edward III, Rex Britania, AD1348.

    "Wenn Schon, denn schon."
    "Be It Done, Best be It Be Done Well."
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    "Until you have looked into a veteran's eyes and actually seen it,
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    ^Uyraell^

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