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Thread: Why did U.S. Soldiers use 03A3s in 1947?

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    Default Why did U.S. Soldiers use 03A3s in 1947?

    This photo here shows Emperor Showa (Hirohito) visiting Kobe, Japan, 11 Jun 1947. And these U.S. Soldiers sure are not packing Garands!

    http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=8920

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    Default Re: Why did U.S. Soldiers use 03A3s in 1947?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deaf Smith View Post
    This photo here shows Emperor Showa (Hirohito) visiting Kobe, Japan, 11 Jun 1947. And these U.S. Soldiers sure are not packing Garands!

    http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=8920

    I believe US Military Police were armed primarily with Springfields during WWII (initially at least) in order to spare the Garands for the frontline troops. Those are probably just leftovers. They may also have served a semi-ceremonial function...

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    Default Re: Why did U.S. Soldiers use 03A3s in 1947?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Those are probably just leftovers. They may also have served a semi-ceremonial function...
    Which?

    The weapons, or the MPs?
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

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    Default Re: Why did U.S. Soldiers use 03A3s in 1947?

    Is it really necessary for the MP's to wear helmets? I mean the war is yrs over and there not in the jungle so i wonder why they are still wearing battle hemets. Just seems a bit strange to me, and boy they look young!
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    Default Re: Why did U.S. Soldiers use 03A3s in 1947?

    Quote Originally Posted by herman2 View Post
    Is it really necessary for the MP's to wear helmets? I mean the war is yrs over and there not in the jungle so i wonder why they are still wearing battle hemets. Just seems a bit strange to me, and boy they look young!
    If you'd had anything to do with MPs, you'd know why they need to wear helmets when everyone else isn't.

    Because they're arseholes who call fire in on their own heads when they could readily avoid it.

    However, RPs (Regimental Police) are closer to the men in the unit and generally don't have those problems.
    ..
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    Montesquieu

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    Default Re: Why did U.S. Soldiers use 03A3s in 1947?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Which?

    The weapons, or the MPs?

    Well, the way they fought in Korea, I'd say mostly the MPs!

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    Default Re: Why did U.S. Soldiers use 03A3s in 1947?



    To answer Herman's question, I'm guessing under 1940s era regs that the MPs were "under arms" and were required to wear helmets. When I was in, most just wore a "soft cap" in garrison, even when they had Beretta sidearms with them...

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    Default Re: Why did U.S. Soldiers use 03A3s in 1947?

    In fairness to MPs, it should be noted that some of them did great and brave work in the field, notably being the poor bastards who had to direct traffic at crossroads and other transport points targeted by enemy artillery. Or at least the Western Allied MPs did. Don't know about the Soviets or Axis, but I expect someone there had to perform the same function.

    Not a great job being required to perform all the time under enemy artillery fire with no chance of firing back against the unseen and distant enemy while you're directing blokes to the front who often treated you like a cowardly arsehole.
    ..
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    Default Re: Why did U.S. Soldiers use 03A3s in 1947?

    I don't know much about the Axis either, but I do keep reading of the German military police, Feldgendarmerie, as being particularly ruthless and feared by the average Heer and even SS soldier. And that this was something that long predated WWII...

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    Default Re: Why did U.S. Soldiers use 03A3s in 1947?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    I don't know much about the Axis either, but I do keep reading of the German military police, Feldgendarmerie, as being particularly ruthless and feared by the average Heer and even SS soldier.
    Certainly by the last year or two of the war, when they applied field executions on their own initiative and without benefit of any reasonable trial process on anyone they suspected of being a deserter or just heading in what they thought was the wrong direction.
    ..
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    Default Re: Why did U.S. Soldiers use 03A3s in 1947?

    In relation to military police, in times of war, would they have more power over local police?
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    Default Re: Why did U.S. Soldiers use 03A3s in 1947?

    Quote Originally Posted by herman2 View Post
    In relation to military police, in times of war, would they have more power over local police?
    Depends upon the nation and the type of 'military' police.

    Also depends whether they're 'military' police in their own or an occupied country.

    The troops, MPs or otherwise, of an occupying force have as much practical power over everything they want to exercise it over, regardless of international or other law. The legal power of the MPs is determined by the occupying force's command.

    So far as power within their own country, 'military' police can extend to secret and security police, both of which often have greater power than civil police in societies which have secret and security police, as distinct from secret and security agencies which are not police forces.

    In English-speaking countries in WWII I think that the general position was that MPs, i.e. military police (being army, navy and air force troops assigned to police duties in their own forces) had jurisdiction over their own service and everyone on their own bases, but not over civilians or over civilian police off their bases.

    This could be complicated by MPs being sworn in as civil police, which then gave them civilian jurisdiction off their bases.

    It could also be complicated by informal cooperation, regardless of strict legal powers, between MPs and civil police in areas with large troop populations, so that any service's MPs or civil police might exercise powers over any serviceman.


    Off topic, but a long time ago I worked with a bloke who'd been an Australian MP in Vietnam, courtesy of the Army rewarding him for having passed a couple of law subjects before being conscripted. He tried to arrest an Aussie soldier in Saigon or somewhere after the Aussie had done a fair job of demolishing some establishment of the brothel or bar, or both, kind as well as demolishing a good number of its inhabitants. Things weren't going well, as the MP was getting the shit kicked out of him as the errant soldier belted and kicked him down a long staircase.

    This was observed by the MP's regular (i.e not conscript) army partner, who did nothing. Ultimately the MP had a very large bit of luck and managed to subdue the offending digger. Whereupon the battered and exhausted conscript MP said to his regular army partner something along the lines of

    "Why the **** didn't you help me, you lazy, useless ****?"

    His partner replied "I thought you were doing alright."

    The conscript MP had an abidiing loathing for regular army MPs ever after.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

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    Default Re: Why did U.S. Soldiers use 03A3s in 1947?

    As far as US Military Police, they are forbidden to enforce the law anywhere but on US federal military reservations by the Posse Comitatus act of 1877. Unless of course martial law is declared...

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    Default Re: Why did U.S. Soldiers use 03A3s in 1947?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    As far as US Military Police, they are forbidden to enforce the law anywhere but on US federal military reservations by the Posse Comitatus act of 1877. Unless of course martial law is declared...
    But don't they exercise jurisdiction over troops in civilian areas?
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

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    Default Re: Why did U.S. Soldiers use 03A3s in 1947?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    But don't they exercise jurisdiction over troops in civilian areas?
    I'm not sure, that's quite a gray area as most troops in civilian areas will have civilian police in those areas and I suppose it could happen that they'd be called out if there were some huge altercation involving military personnel...

    Incidentally, MPs CAN issue traffic tickets and arrest civilian law-breakers on federal military land. However, since 9/11 closed up most US military reservations, this is probably much less common now. When I was in though, MPs caught civilians who thought they were immune to their on-post speed traps all of the time.

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