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herman2
09-08-2009, 09:08 AM
Germany at least gets involved. Where are the Japs?or the Indians? or the Chinese?...At least Germany tries while other country's hide behind a veil of cowardisim!!!

Amrit
09-15-2009, 01:22 PM
Germany at least gets involved.

Before throwing around accusations of cowardice check your facts


or the Indians?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan_War_order_of_battle#India

India has deployed around 380 commandos from the Indo-Tibetan Border Police to protect members of India's Border Roads Organization from attacks by the Taliban. The BRO is working on the 218-km Zaranj-Delaram highway, a strategic road that will connect Kandahar to Iran border.

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Threat-to-Indians-in-Afghanistan-security-up/265914/

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Attacks_wont_stop_India_from_aiding_Afghanistan/articleshow/2977187.cms

herman2
09-15-2009, 02:10 PM
Before throwing around accusations of cowardice check your facts



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan_War_order_of_battle#India

India has deployed around 380 commandos from the Indo-Tibetan Border Police to protect members of India's Border Roads Organization from attacks by the Taliban. The BRO is working on the 218-km Zaranj-Delaram highway, a strategic road that will connect Kandahar to Iran border.

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Threat-to-Indians-in-Afghanistan-security-up/265914/

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Attacks_wont_stop_India_from_aiding_Afghanistan/articleshow/2977187.cms


I never said the Indians were COWARDS. You said it. Maybe you think that the Indians are doing their part but I beg to differ. I simply state that they DO NOTHING in a combat capacity to help a country who is practically next door to their homeland. Even Pakistan had to be bribed with over a Billion US dollars to allow US jets to land in their country. I question how much money India is bribed, but I won’t go there. God forbid that India should get involved with the war in Afghanistan. Rather let American and CANADIAN young boys die, that care enough to fight the war on terror because India is to pimped up on the possibility that their willingness to offer REAL TANGIBLE help might offend Pakistan which would obviously escalate Pakistani-Indian relations. Your threads about commandos indicates they are there to protect their own self interest, and nothing more. Your own Indian newspapers have admitted that India has failed to offer REAL combat support


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JD24Df03.html
India drawn deeper into Afghanistan
By Sudha Ramachandran

BANGALORE - India's presence and influence in Afghanistan has come under fire again. While an Indian road construction project was attacked by suspected Taliban militants a little over a week ago, Indian television serials are being taken off the air in Afghanistan under pressure from religious conservatives.
In the years since the fall of the Taliban in 2001, India's presence in Afghanistan has grown dramatically. India does not have a military presence in Afghanistan, ....."

While my Canadian Papers are plagued every day with young heroic Canadians dying from the Taliban in Afghanistan, you gloat about India’s efforts in a few hundred commandos guarding their highway and some reconstruction efforts that they financially benefit from. I believe India has over a Billion people and is right next door to Afghanistan and Canada has less than 30 million, and is a continent away yet I don’t see any Indian combat soldiers dying in my papers. Maybe you read too much of your Indian Newspapers and believe that road construction and highway patrols are heroic. I did not say Indians are Cowards, but since you brought it up, I lay it on the line for you. A billion people and yet my small country of Canada offers soldiers to die for the benefit of humanity(including Indians). Ya, uha…whatever.

herman2
09-15-2009, 02:17 PM
Before throwing around accusations of cowardice check your facts



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan_War_order_of_battle#India

India has deployed around 380 commandos from the Indo-Tibetan Border Police to protect members of India's Border Roads Organization from attacks by the Taliban. The BRO is working on the 218-km Zaranj-Delaram highway, a strategic road that will connect Kandahar to Iran border.

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Threat-to-Indians-in-Afghanistan-security-up/265914/

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Attacks_wont_stop_India_from_aiding_Afghanistan/articleshow/2977187.cms


I never said the Indians were COWARDS. You said it. Maybe you think that the Indians are doing their part but I beg to differ. I simply state that they DO NOTHING in a combat capacity to help a country who is practically next door to their homeland. Even Pakistan had to be bribed with over a Billion US dollars to allow US jets to land in their country. I question how much money India is bribed, but I won’t go there. God forbid that India should get involved with the war in Afghanistan. Rather let American and CANADIAN young boys die, that care enough to fight the war on terror because India is to pimped up on the possibility that their willingness to offer REAL TANGIBLE help might offend Pakistan which would obviously escalate Pakistani-Indian relations. Your threads about commandos indicates they are there to protect their own self interest, and nothing more. Your own Indian newspapers have admitted that India has failed to offer REAL combat support


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JD24Df03.html
India drawn deeper into Afghanistan
By Sudha Ramachandran

BANGALORE - India's presence and influence in Afghanistan has come under fire again. While an Indian road construction project was attacked by suspected Taliban militants a little over a week ago, Indian television serials are being taken off the air in Afghanistan under pressure from religious conservatives.

In the years since the fall of the Taliban in 2001, India's presence in Afghanistan has grown dramatically. India does not have a military presence in Afghanistan,....

While my Canadian Papers are plagued every day with young heroic Canadians dying from the Taliban in Afghanistan, you gloat about India’s efforts in a few hundred commandos guarding their highway and some reconstruction efforts that they financially benefit from. I believe India has over a Billion people and is right next door to Afghanistan and Canada has less than 30 million, and is a continent away yet I don’t see any Indian combat soldiers dying in my papers. Maybe you read too much of your Indian Newspapers and believe that road construction and highway patrols are heroic. I did not say Indians are Cowards, but since you brought it up, I lay it on the line for you. A billion people and yet my small country of Canada offers soldiers to die for the benefit of humanity(including Indians). Ya, uha…whatever. If an Indian ever did die in a Real combat role in Afghanistan, the country would have a National holiday or week of mourning, but in canada its a fact of reality everyday in the newspaper....Road construction efforts...Please!

..from WIKI:(NOTE: I did not or could not find anything on the web about INDIANS dying in Afghanistan...maybe because they were too busy making money from road construction or guarding some highway from 100 miles away with their binoculars, in case a bee stung them....

As of April 2nd, 2009, Canada has lost
116 Canadian soldiers,
1 Canadian Government diplomat,
2 Canadian Female Aid Workers and
1 Canadian Female Professor from the International Rescue Committee
killed in Afghanistan.
while serving their country. We will not forget them.
German Armed Forces casualties in Afghanistan
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
With a contingent of max. 4,500 soldiers and policemen, Germany is one of the main contributors of troops to coalition operations in Afghanistan. Although German troops mainly operate in the comparatively quiet north of the country, the Bundeswehr has suffered a number of casualties during participation in the International Security Assistance Force peacekeeping mission in Afghanistan.
As of June 26, 2009, 35 soldiers and 3 policemen died in Afghanistan, making a total total of 38 deaths. Among them are the first German reservists to fall in hostile actions and the first German policemen to die in a deployment abroad. Of a total of 38 fatalities, 25 were attributed to enemy action, 12 were caused by accidents and the cause of four has yet to be commented on by the authorities.
In addition to these fatalities, 129 German soldiers and 4 police officers suffered injuries of varying degree caused by hostile activity.

Amrit
09-15-2009, 03:43 PM
While my Canadian Papers are plagued every day with young heroic Canadians dying from the Taliban in Afghanistan, you gloat about India’s efforts in a few hundred commandos guarding their highway and some reconstruction efforts that they financially benefit from. I believe India has over a Billion people and is right next door to Afghanistan and Canada has less than 30 million, and is a continent away yet I don’t see any Indian combat soldiers dying in my papers. Maybe you read too much of your Indian Newspapers and believe that road construction and highway patrols are heroic. I did not say Indians are Cowards, but since you brought it up, I lay it on the line for you. A billion people and yet my small country of Canada offers soldiers to die for the benefit of humanity(including Indians). Ya, uha…whatever.

Christ you write some shit. The fact that Canadian politicians have decided to send their young men to die in a fruitless enterprise is more a reflection on the state of your country than India not sending hers.

The fact that India has been sending troops around the world on UN peace keeping missions for decades seems to have escaped you (why doesn’t that surprise me?).

Indian Military and Police personnel have served under the UN flag in 35 UN peace keeping operations in all the continents of the globe.

Canada has participated in almost 40 UN peacekeeping missions.

So don’t lecture me on when and where India sends its troops.



I never said the Indians were COWARDS. You said it.

What a load of bollocks. You clearly stated At least Germany tries while other country's hide behind a veil of cowardisim! What the **** was that if it wasn’t an accusation of cowardice?



Maybe you think that the Indians are doing their part but I beg to differ.

Beg all you want but how you decide to interpret your earlier comment is a clear indication that you are backtracking – you stated that there was no commitment on the part of India.



I simply state that they DO NOTHING in a combat capacity to help a country who is practically next door to their homeland.

And why should they be dragged into a war that is not of their making and in addition, subordinate themselves to US authority? Just how willing was Canada willing to help Afghanistan before 9/11? Or the US and Britain. You guys have your own agendas as to what you are doing there. Don’t drag the rest of the world into that sordidness.



Even Pakistan had to be bribed with over a Billion US dollars to allow US jets to land in their country.

Damn right…make the bastards pay. If they want to play at war then they should pay a price.


I question how much money India is bribed, but I won’t go there.

You already have. And what was the price for Canada prostituting itself out to the Americans?



God forbid that India should get involved with the war in Afghanistan. Rather let American and CANADIAN young boys die, that care enough to fight the war on terror because India is to pimped up on the possibility that their willingness to offer REAL TANGIBLE help might offend Pakistan which would obviously escalate Pakistani-Indian relations.

And again I ask…why should India get involved in the so-called “war on terror” instigated by the US? If the US and Canada want to send their boys to die in a fight that has achieved nothing, will achieve nothing, and is being run ainlessly, then I pity the poor soldiers. They said that the soldiers of WW1 were lions led by donkeys. I still think the soldiers are Lions but they are now lead by shylocks who supported by the mindless populace.
As to Indo-Pak relations….so you would rather have X number of Indian troops in Afghanistan than have peace between two nuclear powers? Prat


Your threads about commandos indicates they are there to protect their own self interest, and nothing more. Your own Indian newspapers have admitted that India has failed to offer REAL combat support

And just how many Canadian troops are in the country to protect infrastructure projects rather than merely to kill the Taliban. Go look at your government sites and then tell me where the troops are based, what they are doing and why they are doing it

pdf27
09-15-2009, 04:53 PM
Tone it down guys, or I'll lock this thread. Personal insults should be strictly limited to PMs only...

Schuultz
09-15-2009, 04:54 PM
"And why should they be dragged into a war that is not of their making and in addition, subordinate themselves to US authority?"

"You already have. And what was the price for Canada prostituting itself out to the Americans?"

"And again I ask…why should India get involved in the so-called “war on terror” instigated by the US?"


India has received more foreign aid than any other developing nation since the end of World War II--estimated at almost $55 billion since the beginning of its First Five-Year Plan in 1951. Source (http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-170es.html)


Even in 2006-07, the Government of India received US $ 1.83 billion in net external aid. Source (http://leftwrite.wordpress.com/2008/04/15/foreign-aid-and-india/)

This foreign aide comes mainly from Europe and North America, with the US official government fund making up $81,000,000 of this aide, even after recently slashing it by 35%. Source (http://www.financialexpress.com/news/US-slashes-aid-to-India-by-35/206710/).

So while Europe and North America are paying for the Indian lower class/caste to get electricity and clean water, the Government wastes cash on a Space Program. And you come and say that India owes nothing to the world, and accuse the western nations of prostituting themselves? What the heck are you thinking? :neutral:

So, in the future, maybe -just maybe- you should take a good look at what you are about to post before you click 'Submit Reply'.

Amrit
09-15-2009, 05:19 PM
This foreign aide comes mainly from Europe and North America, with the US official government fund making up $81,000,000 of this aide, even after recently slashing it by 35%. Source (http://www.financialexpress.com/news/US-slashes-aid-to-India-by-35/206710/).

About 90 percent of all aid received by India has been in the form of loans

http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/01-02c-05.asp

[qiote]So while Europe and North America are paying for the Indian lower class/caste to get electricity and clean water, the Government wastes cash on a Space Program. And you come and say that India owes nothing to the world, and accuse the western nations of prostituting themselves? What the heck are you thinking? :neutral:

Considering the insignificant amount given by the US - and most of that so that India could then buy US technology, I don't see the significance of your point.

I have an overdraft with my bank. That does not mean that I have to take my turn in guarding its vaults every night.


So, in the future, maybe -just maybe- you should take a good look at what you are about to post before you click 'Submit Reply'.

I know exactly what I am posting because I check my facts...do you?

BTW, I may have an Indian username but being born, brought up and educated in Britain means that I do have a clear understanding of Britain's, Europe's and America's roles in international affairs, and comment upon other's posts without having to make assumptions about their ethnicity or origins.

So don't make assumptions about me just because I am defending India.

Schuultz
09-15-2009, 05:34 PM
Considering the insignificant amount given by the US - and most of that so that India could then buy US technology, I don't see the significance of your point.

You didn't quite read what it said. This was the official US government fund - and for a government fund, the US are giving plenty - there is nothing that forces them to give even a cent. The vast majority of aide is coming from private donations, organized by NPOs such as 'SOS Children's Villages', 'United Way', 'Habitat for Humanity', 'UNESCO', etc. Almost all of which are, again, American or European.


I have an overdraft with my bank. That does not mean that I have to take my turn in guarding its vaults every night.

A bank allows you to have an overdraft because it collects fees from you that end up giving it a profit. The allegory is not appropriate.

A more fitting allegory would be the businessman giving the bagger $100 bucks, and the bagger in turn watching as the businessman gets mugged.
(This is of course exaggerated, but still more fitting.)


I know exactly what I am posting because I check my facts...do you?

No need to imply inaccuracy, I posted sources with my claims, didn't I? The link you provided only refers to official Western aide - not the private one, which is enormous and not a loan.


BTW, I may have an Indian username but being born, brought up and educated in Britain means that I do have a clear understanding of Britain's, Europe's and America's roles in international affairs, and comment upon other's posts without having to make assumptions about their ethnicity or origins.

So don't make assumptions about me just because I am defending India.

I actually never assumed that you were living in India - you do have a British veteran in your sig, after all, and I do not know enough Indian to have even recognized your username as Indian in origin. Look exactly at what I wrote. Never did I say 'Your government' or 'Your people' or anything else that linked you to India, other than your (in my eyes slightly ignorant) defense of it.

No matter what your origin, the way you defended India left you open for Flak.

herman2
09-16-2009, 09:29 AM
And again I ask…why should India get involved in the so-called “war on terror” instigated by the US? If the US and Canada want to send their boys to die in a fight that has achieved nothing, will achieve nothing, and is

I believe that we said the same thing when Hitler came to Power. WHY SHOULD WE GET INVOLVED. Why is a Very good question. Why stop Hitler. Lets just be happy and have a beer and let people do what ever they want in other countries, and not get involved. The jews in Germany were being gassed, but WHY should we get involved. Hitler was making slave labour camps, but why get involved. There is a picture on the phtoto section of this site showing a Jap soldier with a bayonet slashed into a baby which the soldier is carrying as a prize. Why get involved though? I am grateful and supportive of my Canadian soldiers who Do get involved when their country asks them to. My country is doing what it feels is right. If other countries choose to build roads, get fat from the money they make and hide in trees with binoculars looking for the enemy then running away when they see them, well, that’s there problem (not getting personal as I am not mentioning any country names). Oh look, there’s a pregnant lady getting raped and tortured down the street, but some people have the nerve to say, WHY SHOULD I GET INVOLVED. Ya, right, nice philosophy to have in life…..

Rising Sun*
09-16-2009, 09:30 AM
Why should India support America and its allies in Afghanistan when they are supporting Pakistan which is an unstable nuclear power hostile to India and which supports terrorist acts in India?

If India should support America and its allies which invaded and occupy Afghanistan to suppress the terrorist threat to their interests, shouldn't America and its allies support an Indian invasion and occupation of Pakistan to suppress the Pakistani terrorist threat to India's interests?

Oh, but America and its allies can't do that because they support Pakistan, despite it being a haven for resurgent Taliban and their ilk in Afghanistan as well as a growing influence in Pakistan which increases the instability in Pakistan and the risk to India once those nutcases get their hands on nukes, which American and allied support is at least consistent with the contradictions which surrounds American and allied involvement in Afghanistan.

So if America and its allies aren't in favour of India going into Pakistan to suppress a threat to India in the same way that America and its allies went into Afghanistan to suppress a threat to them, why should India support them in a war and or occupation which is not India's problem?

Rising Sun*
09-16-2009, 09:43 AM
If other countries choose to build roads, get fat from the money they make and hide in trees with binoculars looking for the enemy then running away when they see them, well, that’s there problem (not getting personal as I am not mentioning any country names).

So you think that the American military-industrial complex is a philanthropic society not run purely for American economic and financial interests?

Check out Halliburton in Iraq, and who in American government was linked to it, and the reasons why America went into Iraq to prevent its economy collapsing if Euros became the oil currency rather than US dollars.

And you think that America and its allies didn't run away and desert the South Vietnamese after ****ing up their country beyond belief purely for America's and its allies' interests, as in time they will the Afghans?


Oh look, there’s a pregnant lady getting raped and tortured down the street, but some people have the nerve to say, WHY SHOULD I GET INVOLVED. Ya, right, nice philosophy to have in life…..

Perhaps not a sentiment universally shared in Iraq.


Life for US soldier's Iraq crimes

A former US soldier convicted of rape and murder while serving in Iraq will spend life in prison, a judge in the US state of Kentucky has confirmed.

Steven Green, 24, is to serve five consecutive life sentences for raping a 14-year-old Iraqi girl and killing her and her family near Baghdad in 2006.

Green was convicted in May but the jury could not unanimously agree a sentence and he was spared the death penalty.

Four other soldiers are serving time for their roles in the crime.

Three received life sentences, while the fourth was jailed for 27 months for acting as a lookout. Green was considered the ringleader.

International outrage

District Judge Thomas Russell on Friday confirmed that Green would have no chance of parole.

In 2006 Green and three other soldiers entered the home of 14-year-old Abeer Qassim al-Janabi near Mahmudiya, 30km (20 miles) south of Baghdad.


They shot dead her mother, father and sister, then raped Abeer before shooting her and setting fire to her remains.

The crime was planned while Green and the other soldiers drank whiskey and played card games at a traffic checkpoint where they were stationed.

The court heard that Green was seen by army mental health professionals after he had talked about a desire to kill Iraqi civilians.

He was sent back to his unit with medication to help him sleep after a nurse concluded he would not act out his thoughts.

The defence argued there was a lack of military leadership in the 101st Airborne Division.

The BBC's Imtiaz Tyab in Washington says that when details of the killings were revealed months after they took place, they sparked international outrage and led to the retaliatory killing of several US soldiers by Iraqi insurgents.

Green was discharged from the 101st Airborne before the case came to light.

He was the first ex-soldier to be charged under a US law that allows prosecution for crimes committed overseas. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8239206.stm

There is no black and white in war or international relations. Everybody is out for themselves. That's just the way it is.

herman2
09-16-2009, 09:45 AM
If India should support America and its allies which invaded and occupy Afghanistan to suppress the terrorist threat to their interests, shouldn't America and its allies support an Indian invasion and occupation of Pakistan to suppress the Pakistani terrorist threat to India's interests?

No I disagree, its the interest of the whole world and not just America. Terrorist acts stemming from muslim extremists have been felt all around the world. If terrorists from Afghanistan let an atomic bomb explode in Australia, maybe we in Canada should sit back and say it’s not my problem. Attacking Afghanistan does not serve my interest. The war in Afghanistan may not be going the way it was suppose to be, but it does serve the interests of the world. We should not wait and take a vote from countries who don’t want to get involved. The reason for the war is just and it serves the interests of the world. Even Iceland:)

herman2
09-16-2009, 09:48 AM
There is no black and white in war or international relations. Everybody is out for themselves. That's just the way it is.__________________

Perfectly stated. Good point!

Schuultz
09-16-2009, 10:00 AM
There is no black and white in war or international relations. Everybody is out for themselves. That's just the way it is.

Try keeping that in mind the next time the French secret service blows up a ship in your harbors. :D;)

Rising Sun*
09-17-2009, 06:39 AM
Try keeping that in mind the next time the French secret service blows up a ship in your harbors. :D;)

Not our harbour. It was New Zealand. We don't care what happens there. We have enough of our own sheep to worry about, and more so since Kiwis started migrating here in large numbers. ;) :D

Rising Sun*
09-17-2009, 07:28 AM
So, India is, and by implication Indians are, cowardly in matters of war?

Anyone care to identify the only Allied 'national' group whose troops had the option of walking out of Japanese captivity in WWII but who chose not to?


Naik Aziz Ahmed of the 1st Anti-Aircraft Regiment of the Hong Kong and Singapore Royal Artillery recalled that throughout the two-month voyage from Singapore to Rabaul prisoners were "subjected to anti-British propaganda in an effort to suborn them".18 The prisoners refused to co-operate, even refusing to accept Japanese puttees in place of their own ragged clothes lest they be regarded as "favourable to Japanese military effort".19 The coercion continued after their arrival in New Britain of another party. The entire party was paraded and ordered to opt for the pro-Japanese force. "The whole parade refused", Havildar Rozi Khan recalled. Japanese soldiers then began beating Captain Sadiq Ali of the Madras Regiment.20 Captain Ali called out to his men "it is better to die than serve the Japs!" In response, Japanese soldiers seized Lance Naik Rehmat Ali (apparently at random), placed him by a trench and laid the blade of a sword on his bare neck as if to behead him. Then a gun was pointed at his chest and the trigger was pulled – the gun was unloaded. None of the detachment agreed to serve the Japanese but insisted on remaining prisoners of war.21 Soon after arriving in New Britain in 1943 another party was ordered to learn Japanese drill. When its members refused to comply men were beaten unconscious and left lying in the sun. Men who tried to help them were beaten.22 According to many other Indian participants all Indians in New Guinea refused Japanese appeals. Their obduracy meant that they "would be treated as traitors and the treatment you are receiving at present will continue".23
....

{23} In New Guinea the 6th Australian Division ... began encountering sick and starving prisoners, often wandering in the bush. On 10 December [1944] a patrol of the 2/4th Battalion found two emaciated Indians who had been travelling from Wewak for forty-five days – the first of many Indians recovered by the 6th Division in the Sepik campaign. The histories of several Australian battalions refer to their encounters with liberated prisoners. Men encountered by the 2/1st Battalion in March 1945, for example, were described as "very weak but morale still high". In July sentries from the battalion fired on figures they saw in the jungle, inadvertently wounding mortally one of three men of the 4th Punjab Regiment. They were "fine men" but "in a desperate state".30 More followed: in mid-May, for example, 88 prisoners were recovered by the operations following the landing of "Farida Force" east of Wewak.

{24} ... In December 1944 a patrol of the 2/8th Commando Squadron operating on the coast recovered three Indian prisoners of war who had escaped from north-east Bougainville. Later that month a force of Bougainville scouts under Lieutenant K.W.T. Bridge, RANVR, found sixty at Tanimbaubau, at the neck of the Bonis Peninsula. The Japanese had shot forty others as a deterrent after the escape of the smaller party.31

.....

{26} One of the tasks of the Brisbane-based Indian Army mission was to ensure that liberated prisoners were "instilled with the idea that they were still soldiers".34 This appears not to have been necessary. There is abundant evidence that Indian prisoners of war retained a military identity and demeanour in captivity. Late in April 1945 the 16th Australian Brigade was operating around Bolken Point and Koanumbo. Nineteen Indian prisoners came into the Australian lines on the 26th and more followed over the coming weeks. In May an Australian officer described how "inspiring" it was to see a party of twenty prisoners arrive. "They are a great race", he wrote, "Sikhs and Punjabis – great in adversity". They were weak and ragged, but before mounting the lorry that would take them to a camp a sergeant "pulled them up and made them tidy their clothes to the best of their ability so that they would arrive at headquarters looking as presentable as possible." The witness found this display of soldierly pride after so much privation "ennobling".35 Accounts from other brigades amplify and corroborate the impression the Indians made on Australian witnesses. In May 1945 a company of the 2/8th Battalion found a party of fourteen Indians approaching its perimeter. As they were led in, the havildar in charge formed his ragged and starving men into two ranks and reported to an Australian captain, "Havildar [name] reporting with thirteen Sepoys, Sir." This was "a moment of great triumph", a witness wrote, "not to be forgotten by those privileged to witness it".36

{27} The Australians recognised the Indians as soldiers, warming to their expressions of martial commitment. In December 1944 men of the 2/4th Battalion found a Sikh and a Dogra eating green watermelons in a native garden near the Danmap River. They were brought back to Suain and, fed a little at a time, "started to pick up immediately". The Sikh, who had lost his turban, was given half a mosquito net. This "made quite a presentable turban and the turban made quite a presentable Sikh, emaciated though he was". But the Sikh did not only desire the outward forms of his faith, he also sought the tools of his trade. Before leaving on the company's ration DUKW, he asked to fire a few shots from a rifle. "It was touching", the Australians recorded, "to see the way the poor chap placed his hands on the weapon once more". He fired exactly as the musketry manual laid down and hit all of the bully beef tins set up as targets.37

....

{28} Similar reports by Australian soldiers in other areas suggest that the response was characteristic of liberated Indian prisoners. At Kumuia Yama camp, near Rabaul, for example, prisoners formed a quarter guard at the camp, drilling with bamboo sticks within weeks of their liberation. Indian prisoners retained a sense of unit cohesion even after three-and-a-half years of captivity: at Rabaul liberated prisoners stood guard by a guard-hut and flagpole decorated at its base with whitewashed rocks reading "1st Hyderabad" – an Indian States Force battalion captured on Singapore. It is notable that John Crasta asserted the pride his comrades felt at the war's end. Describing the deaths of men from disease, starvation, Japanese brutality and inadvertent wounds from Allied bombs, he reflected that "these men could very well have stayed back in Singapore and saved their own lives. They had not, however. ".They had stayed with the loyal working parties "to be away from the INA influence in vindication of certain principles".38

{29} The evidence of war crimes trials provides further evidence of the tenacity of a soldierly ethos among captive Indians. Near Rabaul in May 1945, for instance, Indian prisoners of 20 Indian Working Party were ordered to wear Japanese badges. While some of the other ranks complied, their officers reacted vigorously, ripping off the badges that had been pinned to their shirts and throwing them onto the ground. At his trial, Sergeant Major Yoshioka Makitaro admitted striking the Indian officers, on the orders of his officer. He was later found guilty of ill-treating prisoners and was sentenced to imprisonment. At the trial there was some dispute whether the insignia were rank or good conduct badges. It seems unlikely that an army which insisted on compliance upon pain of physical brutality should have even considered the idea of "good conduct" badges for Indian subordinates. However, even Sergeant Major Yoshioka conceded that it was the fact that the badges were Japanese that the Indians objected to, and that they were adamant that they would not be open to imputations that they had co-operated with the Japanese.39

{30} This response is intriguing in the light of the general opinion of Indian troops captured in Malaya. Most British historians are apologetic. S. Woodburn Kirby included an appendix in the British official history canvassing reasons for the "rather disappointing performance" of Indian troops in that campaign.40 He judged that "the explanation is simple", that Indian units had been "denuded" of experienced officers, non-commissioned officers and men. The wartime expansion of the Indian army had diluted its regular personnel too thinly to give wartime volunteers the "spiritual foundation on which a good unit depends". They "knew nothing of the old loyalties, . the mutual confidence . between officers and men and between men of different creeds." The behaviour of these liberated prisoners suggests that the "simple" explanation is deficient. These are men who had not seen a British officer for three-and-a-half years. They had survived the ordeal of captivity, in which they had endured neglect, brutality and ill-treatment. In the course of that captivity they had supported each other and even, like few other prisoners of war, banded together to mount a hunger strike in the traditions of Indian non-violent resistance. Throughout this shared experience they had retained what the Indian Army referred to as their martial spirit. Indeed, manifestations of the survival of their soldierly character were evident at the moment they reported to Australian patrols and in the camps administered by Australian formations. It would seem that many Indian soldiers captured at Singapore maintained a loyalty unimpaired even in the darkness of captivity under the Japanese. http://www.awm.gov.au/journal/j37/indians.asp

Rising Sun*
09-17-2009, 07:54 AM
By the way, here's a list of notable Indian cowards in both world wars. :rolleyes:

http://www.wewerethere.defencedynamics.mod.uk/wewerethere_old/vcwin.html

herman2
09-17-2009, 07:58 AM
First of all I want to FORMALLY object to the Mods changing my comments by putting them in a new thread calling it Indian Cowardice. I do not feel that the Mods exercised due diligence by creating a New Thread so all other users think I created this thread when I did not. Secondly the Thread is called Indian Cowardice which I feel is not a title which the Mods should have power to create . In a democracy we do not create threads with titles and put other peoples names on the Thread. I would like for all readers to know that I did not create this thread with this title. The title was created and the Thread was created by the Mods and I think I know which one. The Mod is creating an escalation of infighting by members by making the title of this thread stand out and reflect it as me the creator. The wording I used may not have been the best but it does not imply that Indians are cowards in war in general. The wording in its context relates only to the war in Afghanistan. I have said it once and I will say it again. There are over a Billion people in India and their country is next door to Afghanistan. They only send people to make and build roads in Afghanistan so they can make money and go back home rich. Canada has lost over 100 soldiers and the body bags come home every day. Canada is a fraction of the population of India and Canada is thousands of miles away. Right or Wrong, I support my Canadian troops who sacrifice their lives in Afghanistan. I do not support countries who have large army’s and live next door to Afghanistan and choose not to committt one single solduer to combat duty. I call this a veil of Cowardisim. This equally applies to China and all the rest of the neighbouring countries who chose to say WHY SHOULD I GET INVOLVED. The same this was said when Hitler came to Power and look what happened. It took the World trade centre to collapse killing thousands of people before the US reacted. People who do not get involved with things that affect the world, are cowards. Why should my Canadian people lose their lives while other countries get fat and rich from our commitment? I don’t single out India by itself. The same thing goes for all the neighbouring countries who have the ability and the logistics to make a difference. Lastly, I formally OBJECT to the tile of this thread and the implications it implies by me. It sort of makes me look like a racist or something and that is not true. I support India’s past commitment in a all the prior wars . Only a KNOB would assume my statement applied to WW2. The issue was AFGHANISTAN, if the repliers would clean their glass's and re-read what was said from the perspective of the topic. I was not talking about WW-2. I was talking about AFGHANISTAN. Hello? Anybody home??Please change the title of this Thread to something else as I not only don’t like it and the implications it implies and see it as an act of dictatorship. ..And stop submitting lincs about India's committment in WW2 and other wars as its unrelated to my point. I never said India was a coward in the battlefield. I said they are not doing their part in a combat role in Afgnaistan.Thank You!

herman2
09-17-2009, 08:07 AM
By the way, here's a list of notable Indian cowards in both world wars. :rolleyes:

http://www.wewerethere.defencedynamics.mod.uk/wewerethere_old/vcwin.html

so what? It's unrelated to Afganistan. Did I say that India was a coward in WW1? Why don't you find me a linc about India battling a dinosaur in 20,000 B.C as well? I never said India is a coward in past I said there not doing their part in Afghanistan in a combat capacity and hiding behind a veil of cowardisim. What the hell does the V.C cross in WW-1 got to do with Afghanitan? The linc is implying that I said India is a coward throughout all wars. I did not say that. Show me where I said all wars? You can't show me because I didn't say it. I hope one day when an Atomic bomb goes off in Australia by muslim terrorists that I sit back in Canada and say it's not my problem, why should I get involved , then when you call Canada a Coward, I send you lincs abount Canada's ww-1 V.C recipients. I wouldn't do that because if Canad didn't get involved I would protest, to support the injustice and inhumainty that was caused.

herman2
09-17-2009, 08:19 AM
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:u5aRcxU_nkQJ:timblair.spleenville.c om/archives/007733.php+australia+cowards+in+ww2&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

COWARD ISLAND
"Australia has become an island of Bush-licking cowards," writes an ex-pat living in Los Angeles. You’d think someone so opposed to Bush would decline to live under his tyranny. Anyway, Ed Koch disagrees:
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:nTRHaXwoBKUJ:www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread160181/pg1+australia+cowards+in+ww2&cd=16&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

An Australian militia unit that held off the Japanese in PNG, despite having almost no training and the wrong colour uniforms and no support from GHQ in Canberra. General (later Field Marshall) Thomas Blamey was an ignorant fool who then accused these men, who saved Australia, of being cowards and relieved their officers of command.

These lincs are totally unrelated to this thread but since the V.C Cross linc was posted , I figured what the hell, ..anybody can print what they want....

Schuultz
09-17-2009, 08:36 AM
First of all,

I don't agree with the mods turning this argument into a separate thread of this name, and make it appear as if herman had called all Indians ever cowards, simply based on their ethnicity. This is not fair towards him, as it's simply not true, and maybe RS* should consider renaming it.

Second,

In an act of civil vigilance (:mrgreen:), I'd like to tell the two of you to get back on topic, India's involvement in the current War in Afghanistan. The past does not matter here, unless there is a direct causal link between it and India's involvement (or lack thereof).

Also:

herman, calm down. No need to get that angry about this, just send RS* a polite PM and ask him to rename the thread, because you feel like you're treated unfairly.

herman2
09-17-2009, 08:38 AM
So, India is, and by implication Indians are, cowardly in matters of war?

Anyone care to identify the only Allied 'national' group whose troops had the option of walking out of Japanese captivity in WWII but who chose not to?

What the hell are you talking about? I did not say in matters of War..the thread you took my words from was about AFGHANISTAN. Stop smoking the Kangaroo dung and get your implications correct. If i say a black idiot hit my car do you say that all blacks are idiots??

Rising Sun*
09-17-2009, 09:13 AM
First of all I want to FORMALLY object to the Mods changing my comments by putting them in a new thread calling it Indian Cowardice. I do not feel that the Mods exercised due diligence by creating a New Thread so all other users think I created this thread when I did not. Secondly the Thread is called Indian Cowardice which I feel is not a title which the Mods should have power to create . In a democracy we do not create threads with titles and put other peoples names on the Thread. I would like for all readers to know that I did not create this thread with this title. The title was created and the Thread was created by the Mods and I think I know which one.

No, it wasn't created by “the Mods”. I created it.

Obviously I mistook your following comment, which is the first post in this thread removed from the Things Which Piss Me Off thread where this discussion no longer belonged, as implying cowardice by India:


Germany at least gets involved. Where are the Japs?or the Indians? or the Chinese?...At least Germany tries while other country's hide behind a veil of cowardisim!!!

Plus your later comment implying cowardice by India:


I do not support countries who have large army’s and live next door to Afghanistan and choose not to committt one single solduer to combat duty. I call this a veil of Cowardisim.

And this:


People who do not get involved with things that affect the world, are cowards.

I apologise for inferring from these delightfully subtle comments that your accusations of Indian ‘cowardism’ could be interpreted as implying that India and or Indians are or were cowards. Clearly when talking about ‘cowardism’ you were referring to certain attitudes of some Indians to cows.

Anyway, give me a title you're happy with, which is consistent with the content of the your comments, and I'll consider changing the title to make you happy.


The Mod is creating an escalation of infighting by members by making the title of this thread stand out and reflect it as me the creator.

If you like, I'll delete your opening post and just leave your present second post as the opening post, in a thread reasonably titled something like "India not cowardly, just corrupt in hiding behind the lives of American and Canadian young men" on the basis of your present second post:


I never said the Indians were COWARDS. You said it. Maybe you think that the Indians are doing their part but I beg to differ. I simply state that they DO NOTHING in a combat capacity to help a country who is practically next door to their homeland. Even Pakistan had to be bribed with over a Billion US dollars to allow US jets to land in their country. I question how much money India is bribed, but I won’t go there. God forbid that India should get involved with the war in Afghanistan. Rather let American and CANADIAN young boys die, that care enough to fight the war on terror because India is to pimped up on the possibility that their willingness to offer REAL TANGIBLE help might offend Pakistan which would obviously escalate Pakistani-Indian relations. Your threads about commandos indicates they are there to protect their own self interest, and nothing more. Your own Indian newspapers have admitted that India has failed to offer REAL combat support



I have said it once and I will say it again. There are over a Billion people in India and their country is next door to Afghanistan. They only send people to make and build roads in Afghanistan so they can make money and go back home rich. Canada has lost over 100 soldiers and the body bags come home every day. Canada is a fraction of the population of India and Canada is thousands of miles away.

So, if India as Afghanistan’s neighbour doesn’t feel the need to join a futile attempt to occupy it while Canada and other countries thousands of miles away do, might that suggest that maybe India after millennia of living in the region has a rather better idea of how to handle things than the West with its usual clumsy approach to such things?



It took the World trade centre to collapse killing thousands of people before the US reacted.

Really?

What about the US, Britain and France happily ****ing over the Middle East for most of the 20th century, along with the Zionists still ****ing it over at turbo speed now and for the foreseeable future, not to mention Britain exercising colonial control over India for a couple of centuries? Might not 9/11 be a reaction to decades of oppression and exploitation in the Middle East supported by America and its allies? Who, for example, trained SAVAK to torture the people of Iran to prop up the Shah for Western interests, which contributed to the Islamic Revolution in Iran which was reviled in the West for being so terribly anti-American?

How many people have been needlessly killed in Iraq as a result of the unjustifiable invasion by America and its allies in the most recent Western invasion of Iraq, which has nothing to do with 9/11?

America hasn’t endured a fraction of the pain it inflicted on millions of people around the world before 9/11. That doesn’t justify the deaths of thousands of innocents on 9/11, but neither does 9/11 absolve America of decades of interfering in other countries and supporting their oppressive dictatorships and the like in American interests. As ye sow, so shall ye reap.


Why should my Canadian people lose their lives while other countries get fat and rich from our commitment? I don’t single out India by itself. The same thing goes for all the neighbouring countries who have the ability and the logistics to make a difference.

Provide evidence to support that comment.


Lastly, I formally OBJECT to the tile of this thread and the implications it implies by me. It sort of makes me look like a racist or something and that is not true. I support India’s past commitment in a all the prior wars . Only a KNOB would assume my statement applied to WW2. The issue was AFGHANISTAN, if the repliers would clean their glass's and re-read what was said from the perspective of the topic. I was not talking about WW-2. I was talking about AFGHANISTAN. Hello? Anybody home??Please change the title of this Thread to something else as I not only don’t like it and the implications it implies and see it as an act of dictatorship. ..And stop submitting lincs about India's committment in WW2 and other wars as its unrelated to my point. I never said India was a coward in the battlefield. I said they are not doing their part in a combat role in Afgnaistan.Thank You!

Why don’t you demonstrate why India has a moral, geo-political, or legal obligation to join in an invasion and occupation of Afghanistan by countries thousands of miles away from both India and Afghanistan in pursuit of interests solely related to those distant countries and without regard to the interests of India or any other countries in the region?

Apart, of course, from India being required to conform with whatever Canada chooses to do in Canada’s own interests which, one might think, are fairly marginal in Afghanistan.

Nickdfresh
09-17-2009, 09:21 AM
Hasn't India spanked Pakistan in just about every conflict? :D I think they've won every major conflict ever fought? Tough to be cowardly and victorious at the same time.

I think it should also be noted that the Indian gov't was supporting the Taliban's (an hence al-Qaida's) main enemies and rivals, The Northern Alliance, before the US was all throughout the 1990s and early 2000s prior to 9/11. I don't know if this was mentioned yet...

herman2
09-17-2009, 09:29 AM
I think it should also be noted that the Indian gov't was supporting the Taliban's (an hence al-Qaida's
...go figure....maybe the Indians and the Australians should unite and form their own allegiance and live in Never Never Land with Peter Pan. Canadian lives will pay the price.

Schuultz
09-17-2009, 09:33 AM
How about we rename this threat "Indian responsibility to the West?" or something along those lines?

Rising Sun*
09-17-2009, 10:03 AM
First of all,

I don't agree with the mods turning this argument into a separate thread of this name, and make it appear as if herman had called all Indians ever cowards, simply based on their ethnicity. This is not fair towards him, as it's simply not true, and maybe RS* should consider renaming it.

First, it's not 'the mods'. It's me only.

Second, see the second, third and fourth quotes from Herman in my last post.

Third, Herman chose to use 'coward' and its variants repeatedly, not me. So he lives with the consequences of his gratuitous action and offensive labelling of Indians, which would be just as offensive to Canadians or anyone else if the positions were reversed.


Second,

In an act of civil vigilance (:mrgreen:), I'd like to tell the two of you to get back on topic, India's involvement in the current War in Afghanistan. The past does not matter here, unless there is a direct causal link between it and India's involvement (or lack thereof).

Actually, this started in the light hearted Things That Piss Me Off thread, where it was seriously off topic.

Once someone raises a nation's cowardice, one has to expect that responses will not be limited to the battlefield chosen for the attacker's advantage but that battle will be taken to all positions in the field, and beyond.

I find it highly objectionable to throw around 'cowardice' and its variants about any nation, especially when that is based upon a narrow conception that any nation which does not conform with Herman's views about Canada is a coward.

Anyone with a grain of understanding of the history of India and what is now Afghanistan would know that it is impossible to discuss the conduct of either towards the other now without an understanding of their pasts. And of Pakistan's history. And Partition. And the British colonial era. And much more than just a stupid comment that India is a coward because it hasn't blindly followed the arrogant West into the West's latest Vietnam, as Canada has to Herman's great satisfaction which results in him moaning about Canadians dying in a misconceived and untenable occupation (not a 'war') they have no more business being involved in than anyone else from other remote parts of the planet.


Also:

herman, calm down. No need to get that angry about this, just send RS* a polite PM and ask him to rename the thread, because you feel like you're treated unfairly.

No, he's being treated most fairly by me responding to his uninformed Canada-centric rants as if they're reasoned comments based on evidence instead of stupid comments based on the assumption that India is devoting its resources to making a profit out of Afghanistan, as if America isn't FFS!

Let's get down to one of the major reasons for the invasion AND occupation. Anyone care to identify it?

Rising Sun*
09-17-2009, 10:15 AM
How about we rename this threat "Indian responsibility to the West?" or something along those lines?

What responsibilty does India owe to the West? For what?

How about renaming the thread "Western responsiblity for several centuries of shamelessly exploiting India, but that doesn't matter as India is a cowardly nation because it won't follow Canada into inflaming a conflict on India's border of little benefit to Canada but with potentially catastrophic consequences to India after Canada and the rest of the West piss off like they always do after ****ing up similar ill-considered enterprises."?

Or maybe "Why Indian foreign policy should be determined in Ottowa, by otters."

herman2
09-17-2009, 10:45 AM
Or maybe "Why Indian foreign policy should be determined in Ottowa, by otters."

..oh so now your making fun of Canada and calling us Otters by mispelling our Capital Ottawa. That is just plain NASTY! Just so you know, I never really did like FOSTERS-it tastes like piss:lol:
..anyways I have had enough of this thread. PLEASE RENAME IT and I will be eternally grateful to YOU, Not the MODS, just You (The dictator that you are putting up threads on this forum under my Fine name when I never even created this thread). Use your Mod Powers and do what is right and PLEASE rename this thread. I don't need the Indian subscribers burning down my house tonight. Ok? Please!

Rising Sun*
09-17-2009, 10:46 AM
I think it should also be noted that the Indian gov't was supporting the Taliban's (an hence al-Qaida's
...go figure....maybe the Indians and the Australians should unite and form their own allegiance and live in Never Never Land with Peter Pan.

Yeah, the conditions are just perfect for that at the moment. http://news.google.com.au/news/search?aq=0z&um=1&ned=au&hl=en&q=indians+attacked&oq=indian
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2009/s2688287.htm

(The reports are complete bullshit - those blokes would have been mincemeat if attacked by 70 people - but you can't expect the press in Australia or India to eschew facts for sensationalism.)

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1921482,00.html

Rising Sun*
09-17-2009, 10:50 AM
Or maybe "Why Indian foreign policy should be determined in Ottowa, by otters."

..oh so now your making fun of Canada and calling us Otters by mispelling our Capital Ottawa. That is just plain NASTY! Just so you know, I never really did like FOSTERS-it tastes like piss:lol:

Yeah, well, otters don't taste so good either. :D


anyways I have had enough of this thread. PLEASE RENAME IT and I will be eternally grateful to YOU, Not the MODS, just You (The dictator that you are putting up threads on this forum under my Fine name when I never even created this thread). Use your Mod Powers and do what is right and PLEASE rename this thread. I don't need the Indian subscribers burning down my house tonight. Ok? Please!

As stated earlier, you offer one or more thread titles suitable to you and I'll consider them.

32Bravo
09-17-2009, 12:47 PM
Yeah, well, otters don't taste so good either. :D


I always thought Otters rather good, at least as good as Foster's :lol: :lol:

And as for XXXX, it has to be better. :lol:

Rising Sun*
09-17-2009, 01:37 PM
An Australian militia unit that held off the Japanese in PNG, despite having almost no training and the wrong colour uniforms and no support from GHQ in Canberra. General (later Field Marshall) Thomas Blamey was an ignorant fool who then accused these men, who saved Australia, of being cowards and relieved their officers of command.

These lincs are totally unrelated to this thread but since the V.C Cross linc was posted , I figured what the hell, ..anybody can print what they want....

Nobody in the 39th Bn got a VC in the extended and generally successful fighting retreat Blamey criticised, although it was a better campaign than he could have imagined and one he didn't command in any real sense but for which he was later given credit.

Blamey addressed the men after their efforts and is variously reported as having been firm with them or hostile to them. Given that it is well documented that the officers and NCOs on parade had to stifle an immediate mutiny in response to his comments, he was probably hostile.

The comment which upset the troops most was along the lines that "It's not the man with the gun who gets shot, but the rabbit who runs from the man with the gun."

The troops, who had fought hard for weeks with considerable success against much larger, better equipped, better trained, and battle hardened hardened Japanese forces, were upset.

Several days later Blamey visited troops from that campaign in a base hospital. It is reported that the patients were sitting up in bed and munching on lettuce leaves like rabbits, and that Blamey chose to ignore this and went out of the ward as if nothing had happened.

32Bravo
09-18-2009, 12:17 PM
Germany at least gets involved. Where are the Japs?or the Indians? or the Chinese?...At least Germany tries while other country's hide behind a veil of cowardisim!!!

Is this the first post on this thread? It seems like a rather bizarre statement. I don't quite follow the context.

Involved in what - may I ask - and what is a veil of cowardism? Is it used to veil their courage?

pdf27
09-18-2009, 01:07 PM
This was split out from another thread, so the first post refers to the contents of that thread.

herman2
09-18-2009, 01:32 PM
Is this the first post on this thread? It seems like a rather bizarre statement. I don't quite follow the context.

Involved in what - may I ask - and what is a veil of cowardism? Is it used to veil their courage?

You See You see! That is exactly what I am talking about. A Mod of this fine site takes a sentence out of context from another thread and CREATES A NEW THREAD all by themselves and puts MY NAME attached to it. This is just like Hitler. This is a dictatorship of thread creation. What right does another person have to create a New Thread and put my name on it. I just might complain to Mr. Firefly about this. I find it to be unjust, unfair and it smells of over zealous Mod usage of power. Now other uses are wondering why I created this stupid thread when I did not create it. I demand formally once again that my name be taken off the thread as I did not create this thread. I do not like this communist dictatorship that choses to put user names to threads people did not create. It is outrageous. It is unfair. This is how communism started . This forum is for all to love and learn from. The power of a select few to create threads at whim putting my name on it is communist I tell You. I demand fairness. Please PDF and Nickdfresh; please see this from an objective point of view. I know RS meant well, but its not fair. Please do something about it.

herman2
09-18-2009, 01:35 PM
This was split out from another thread, so the first post refers to the contents of that thread.

It was split by a communist dictator who is trying to ruin my fine name. Can't you guys see this is unfair? Wake up and be objective. Even if you don't like me, pls see this from an objective point of view. If this could happen to me then who is next? This is how communisim started . We must speak up now against this iron handed approach.

Amrit
09-18-2009, 04:03 PM
This is how communisim started

I thought it was started because the downtrodden working classes wanted an equal share of the fruits of their labour....but maybe my years at uni were wasted and it means something else?

32Bravo
09-18-2009, 04:14 PM
You See You see! That is exactly what I am talking about. A Mod of this fine site takes a sentence out of context from another thread and CREATES A NEW THREAD all by themselves and puts MY NAME attached to it. This is just like Hitler. This is a dictatorship of thread creation. What right does another person have to create a New Thread and put my name on it. I just might complain to Mr. Firefly about this. I find it to be unjust, unfair and it smells of over zealous Mod usage of power. Now other uses are wondering why I created this stupid thread when I did not create it. I demand formally once again that my name be taken off the thread as I did not create this thread. I do not like this communist dictatorship that choses to put user names to threads people did not create. It is outrageous. It is unfair. This is how communism started . This forum is for all to love and learn from. The power of a select few to create threads at whim putting my name on it is communist I tell You. I demand fairness. Please PDF and Nickdfresh; please see this from an objective point of view. I know RS meant well, but its not fair. Please do something about it.

Calm down, old chap.

32Bravo
09-18-2009, 04:15 PM
I thought it was started because the downtrodden working classes wanted an equal share of the fruits of their labour....but maybe my years at uni were wasted and it means something else?


You're not related to LR James are you? :lol:

32Bravo
09-18-2009, 04:18 PM
It was split by a communist dictator who is trying to ruin my fine name. Can't you guys see this is unfair? Wake up and be objective. Even if you don't like me, pls see this from an objective point of view. If this could happen to me then who is next? This is how communisim started . We must speak up now against this iron handed approach.

What, exactly, is your problem with communism?

Nickdfresh
09-18-2009, 11:37 PM
You See You see! That is exactly what I am talking about. A Mod of this fine site takes a sentence out of context from another thread and CREATES A NEW THREAD all by themselves and puts MY NAME attached to it. This is just like Hitler. This is a dictatorship of thread creation. What right does another person have to create a New Thread and put my name on it....

What right do you have to **** up the old thread with your uniformed, simpleton shit?

pdf27
09-19-2009, 01:17 AM
It has to be said, I agree with Nick here. Site policy is that when a thread goes off on a mega-tangent, the posts relating to that tangent are to be split off into a new topic named whatever the mod in question feels is appropriate (and frankly I think you got off lightly with what this one is called!). If you don't like it, PM Firefly and ask that the site policy be changed. If it is, then the mods will subsequently implement the new policy -but not before.

Rising Sun*
09-19-2009, 04:51 AM
A Mod of this fine site takes a sentence out of context from another thread

No. This thread contains all comments relevant to the new topic and irrelevant to the thread from which it was split. Nothing is out of context.


and CREATES A NEW THREAD all by themselves

Yes. See pdf27's last post.


and puts MY NAME attached to it.

No, the forum software does that automatically by showing the name of the the first poster in the new thread as the thread starter, as with all other threads.

So, given that you introduced the topic of India's cowardice in the thread from which it was properly split in the post which is now the first post in this thread, it really is all your own work and you have no one to blame but yourself for the existence and title of this thread and for you being named as thread starter.

You, and I, would object if similarly repugnant comments were made about Canada in relation to any of the many military efforts from which it has been absent in the modern world. India deserves the same respect.

India is entitled to keep out of what is already another Vietnam, just as Canada and Britain were entitled - and very wise - to keep out of Vietnam when America and some Commonwealth forces were there.

So stop wasting bandwidth bitching about my modding and think about apologising unreservedly for your outrageous allegations about India's cowardice. If you can't do that, at least be man enough to stand behind your own words. So far you've done neither.

32Bravo
09-20-2009, 04:52 AM
Oh, what joy! What is it we're discussing here?

Schuultz
09-20-2009, 10:10 AM
By now?

Whether herman has been treated unfairly by RS* or not.

Originally?

Whether there is any reason India should be fighting in Afghanistan/why International armies are.

32Bravo
09-20-2009, 10:33 AM
By now?

Whether herman has been treated unfairly by RS* or not.

Originally?

Whether there is any reason India should be fighting in Afghanistan/why International armies are.

Thank you, for that!

Given the history of the region, the past wars of India and Pakistan and the posession of nuclear weapons, it would be, in my opinion, madness for India to become embroiled in what is happening in Afghanistan. It is also, in my opinion, niave to think that Afghanistan is simply about Afghanistan and not a regional power struggle.

herman2
09-22-2009, 12:31 PM
I wonder if this ever happened to the Taj Mahal if Canada or America would get involved? I guess not, cause afterall, its not Our Problem.

3645

32Bravo
09-22-2009, 12:50 PM
It's rather foolish to make collective, derogative comments about a whole group of people of any type.

As far as I'm concerned, the only way you can be in a position to name anyone or any people cowards, is if you have been involved yourself or have volunteered to become involved.
And then, of course, there is the matter of proof of cowardice.

It's rather pathetic to describe people as being cowards from the safety of a keyboard. Still I expect that you're off to the Afghan any time now. :lol:

As we all know, the conflict in that region is centred around, and fought for, economic reasons, i.e. oil.

The islamic extremists - let's say Islmists for simplicity - as opposed to the very day muslims, recognize this. This is why they wish to follow the old ways. For, they know, that the oil-rich, muslim nations are dependent on Western purchasing power and, therefore, have to bend to the West to some degree. The Islamists would have none of this. Preferring to rule like medieval warlords using the technology and laws of that time so that oil and its sales does not effect them. More important to them, is the sale of heroine, which they can more easily sell to anyone.

herman2
09-22-2009, 01:08 PM
I said...Germany at least gets involved. Where are the Japs?or the Indians? or the Chinese?...At least Germany tries while other country's hide behind a veil of cowardisim!!!
...I never singled out the Indians did I?? Are you guys BLIND. Why is this just about the Indians.Why doesn't the Mod create a seperate Jap Thread under my name as well. Why not create a seperate China Thread under my name as well? Your missing my point. I only engaged in the conversation about India because someone deliberatley misconstrued my words and made it sound like India was the only topic of my original comment. So when I asked RS why he created this Thread as an INDIAN coward thread, ask yourself, why he excluded China and Japan from the title ? Its mainly because he wants to incite a riot between myself and the original subscriber who objected to my original comment, who happened to reply to me about his dissatisfaction on my commenting of India. For the last time, this is not about INDIA. Its about body bags coming home while other countries , like Japan, China and INDIA, do nothing except make mmoney from their private contractors they send over. Sure, America has contractors too, but at least they sacrifice soldiers to fight so the world can be a better place to live in!

Nickdfresh
09-22-2009, 01:09 PM
I wonder if this ever happened to the Taj Mahal if Canada or America would get involved? I guess not, cause afterall, its not Our Problem.

3645

There have been numerous terror attacks in India where the US and Canada didn't get involved. I'm pretty sure we've done nothing in regards to the Mombai attacks...

herman2
09-22-2009, 01:12 PM
And for the FIFTH TIME, Please change the title of this THREAD. I did not create it and I don't approve of the title. I never authorized a thread like this. I never singled out INDIA. ..Why was China and Japan DELIBERATELY excluded from the Thread Title??? Why? Because its a conspiracy of overzealous Mods.

Nickdfresh
09-22-2009, 01:13 PM
And yet you keep carrying on in it like a babbling troll. Interesting timing as well...

tankgeezer
09-22-2009, 01:53 PM
Maybe its time,,

Nickdfresh
09-22-2009, 02:07 PM
Maybe for a bit...