Murdering of Volksdeutsche in Poland in 1939

[Chevan]

Hi folks.
Just recently , quite accidentally i have found an quite shocking matter, that tells about killing the ethnical GErmans in Poland near Danzig.
Don't missunderstand me, i m not going to spread nazis view on history, nor advocating its own behaviour in Poland. I don't claim this is true, i just want to know.
The photos are here
http://s-mahat.ru/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cont=69
http://s-mahat.ru/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cont=70
The GErman newspaper that describe the events
http://s-mahat.ru/pict/039_04.jpg
The source claims there were killed up to 55 000 of ethnical germans in Danzig, right after GErman invasion to Poland in september.
What is here the true and what is the propogand?

[herman2]

Very Disturbing photo's, but a fact of war. thx for sharing Chevan

[Rising Sun*]

I think ?Schuultz? or somebody else recently posted on this in another thread in response to a question from me, but I can't recall the thread.

[VonWeyer]

Thanx for the post. The horrors of war.

[flamethrowerguy]

The number of 55000 victims was pure Nazi propaganda. Still today historians are at strife about the real numbers which according to different researchers differs from 4000 - 13000 killed ethnic Germans during the first days of the war (with the Bromberg Bloody Sunday as a climax).

[sarge94]

Well, considering that the Poles were not really happy about the germans, its pretty easy to understand why. However it is the horror of war.

[Chevan]

The number of 55000 victims was pure Nazi propaganda. Still today historians are at strife about the real numbers which according to different researchers differs from 4000 - 13000 killed ethnic Germans during the first days of the war (with the Bromberg Bloody Sunday as a climax).
so it's really happend!
The ethnic mass murdering of civils is definitely Genocide.But interesting - was those action the resaul ot special order of polish authorities or it was "people's action" kinda mass antisemitic pogroms?

[flamethrowerguy]

Well, considering that the Poles were not really happy about the germans,...

They never were, don't forget that there were violations of ethnic Germans long before Germany invaded - and I'm not talking about incidents faked by the Nazis. The occurences of early September 1939 have just been the negative climax.

[flamethrowerguy]

so it's really happend!
The ethnic mass murdering of civils is definitely Genocide.But interesting - was those action the resaul ot special order of polish authorities or it was "people's action" kinda mass antisemitic pogroms?

Who knows? German and Polish savants are still arguing if ethnic German civilians in Poland started firing upon retreating Polish forces or not. The Polish claim that this would have been the main reason for the atrocities...

[Chevan]

Who knows? German and Polish savants are still arguing if ethnic German civilians in Poland started firing upon retreating Polish forces or not. The Polish claim that this would have been the main reason for the atrocities...
The farmers start to fire at retreating polish army???
I admit the few germans might to take the firearms and start to resist( as it was in Western Ukraine in 1941) But entire the families?
Anyway the mass murdering the woman and children can't be justified by the actions of resistence.This is Ethnic genocide.
This remind me what happend in Volun in 1943- the poles themself had become the victims of UPA atrocities.
BTW do you - were there the victims among the Polish civils in Blomberg too?

[flamethrowerguy]

BTW do you - were there the victims among the Polish civils in Blomberg too?

No, there aren't any Polish civilian casualties mentioned. Polish sources speak of 250-300 Polish soldiers that were killed by German shooters. The Poles claim that these people were "fifth column" members and disguised SS men along the civilians. However, there are no documents or information available about German sabotage forces etc. in this area by that time.

[Schuultz]

I think ?Schuultz? or somebody else recently posted on this in another thread in response to a question from me, but I can't recall the thread.

Did I? I don't remember. What was arguing?

[Chevan]

No, there aren't any Polish civilian casualties mentioned. Polish sources speak of 250-300 Polish soldiers that were killed by German shooters. The Poles claim that these people were "fifth column" members and disguised SS men along the civilians. However, there are no documents or information available about German sabotage forces etc. in this area by that time.
Well , two points come into consideration.
1.The hands of many victims were tied behind - those people were probably arrested before death.Usialy during the bloody pogroms crowd didn't tied the victims.
2. there were no killed polish civils among the victims. Only supposed polish soldiers.
That makes me to conclide that there were aspecial organized action of Polish army and probably ..police.The murdering of civils looks like the cruel antipartisan action , kinda that what widely were spread later.
Anyway, that crime, organized by polish authorities, migh be an perfect pretext for Hitler to start later the Genocide against poles themself.