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View Full Version : Jagdpanther at Imperial War Museum



VonWeyer
09-09-2009, 07:31 AM
A photo of the Jagdpanther at the Imperial War Museum in London. You can clearly see the four shell impact holes on the side that disabled it.

flamethrowerguy
09-09-2009, 09:27 AM
This vehicle originally belonged to the Schwere Panzerjäger-Abteilung 559 (heavy tank destroyer battalion) and was knocked-out during the Battle of Hechtel/Belgium (September 6-12, 1944).

tankgeezer
09-09-2009, 03:58 PM
Does the display mention what weapon was used to hole it?

kallinikosdrama1992
09-09-2009, 04:50 PM
I agree with tankgeezer !!! Three shots close to each other like the tank was sitting duck and fire to destroy it !!! Just a guess i would say it would be like 76mm or 76.2mm that destroy it . Could the 75mm of the sherman got through Jagdpanthers armor at about 500m ??? In this particular case the side armor

tankgeezer
09-09-2009, 06:08 PM
The side armor is fairly thin, difficult to tell without a reference for comparison. he impacts are from kinetic projectiles, be it A.P. shot, or shell, and not a bazooka, or some other type of shaped charge device. I was just curious about what actually got it.

Nickdfresh
09-09-2009, 08:07 PM
Nice shot group. :)

VonWeyer
09-10-2009, 01:41 AM
This vehicle originally belonged to the Schwere Panzerjäger-Abteilung 559 (heavy tank destroyer battalion) and was knocked-out during the Battle of Hechtel/Belgium (September 6-12, 1944).

Thanx for the info. I am open to correction, but i am sure that it was a 75mm from a Sherman that disabled it. It has been a few years since i was there so i can't remember all the info. I should have taken a pic of the display board with all the info on it.

kallinikosdrama1992
09-10-2009, 02:57 AM
The side armor is fairly thin, difficult to tell without a reference for comparison. he impacts are from kinetic projectiles, be it A.P. shot, or shell, and not a bazooka, or some other type of shaped charge device. I was just curious about what actually got it.



tankgeezer thanks for the info . I was curious what disable it too . I just made a guess ..


I am open to correction, but i am sure that it was a 75mm from a Sherman that disabled it.

VonWeyer thanks for the info too !! A 75mm through jagdpanthers armor .. I thought it had the same armor with panther and it wasn't so easy to be penetrated ..

VonWeyer
09-10-2009, 03:38 AM
I suppose it all depends how close it was at the time of the shooting.

kallinikosdrama1992
09-10-2009, 04:40 AM
Well this i am going to say might sound stupid .. Is there any chance tanks armor , each tank -german,russian or american, to be more vulnerable during the winter ??? I mean because of the cold the the tank hull was to be broken easier ??

kallinikosdrama1992
09-10-2009, 05:26 AM
Guys , i think there is a fifth hole in Jagdpanther's side armor . In the back , at the engine . It is visible in the first photo . About to meters left of the three penetrated points . Could someone verify it ??? I am not sure if its a hole of an enemy shot ...

VonWeyer
09-10-2009, 05:36 AM
Their are three holes in the center and one at the rear as in the first photo. That is correct.

kallinikosdrama1992
09-10-2009, 05:42 AM
And one more thing , like a hole , above the track . Or it's not a hole ?? Lower right of the center holes right above the track

VonWeyer
09-10-2009, 05:54 AM
Yes. It looks like a hole, but i don't think from a shell. Maybe it was caused from the impact of the blast from the inside out. That whole strip of metal above the track looks very fragile.

kallinikosdrama1992
09-10-2009, 05:56 AM
Yeah i agree with you on the last one ... It made me fool ... You're right ...

ptimms
09-10-2009, 09:34 AM
It was destroyed by the 75mm of a Cromwell of Lieutenant WH Griffiths 2nd Armoured Reconnaissance Batt. Welsh Guards. Both the Panther and the Jagdpanther weren't that heavily armoured on the side (40-60mm for the Jagdpanther) and it was done at close range. The Jagdpanther in question was a command version.

VonWeyer
09-10-2009, 09:36 AM
Thanx for setting that straight. Appreciate the feedback.

tankgeezer
09-10-2009, 09:47 AM
The upper, and lower side armor of the JP is listed as 1.6", this would be vulnerable to a 75mm Sherman if it were within a reasonable distance, which is likely, due to the close placement of the 3 forward hits.With no anecdotal information, its pretty much impossible to say what round was used, 17 pdr, 75, or 76.2 mm Sherman.

kallinikosdrama1992
09-10-2009, 12:56 PM
ptimms nice info you got there , letting us know by what it was destroyed . But could you also find if there's a fifth hole above the tracks ??? (its becoming boring to ask again but think it would be a nice info)

beesa
09-10-2009, 06:24 PM
Hello fellas,I visited the IWM a good few years ago and saw the Jagdpanther.I also bought a brochure and I am pretty sure there is a little write up on the vehicle.I will look for it in the morning when my wife is a lot more awake.

Panzerknacker
09-10-2009, 07:44 PM
Tight group of hits in that Jagdpanther. That was bang,bang, bang at close range.

VonWeyer
09-11-2009, 03:56 AM
As far as i know the first shell at the back by the engine disabled it (in the first photo), then the other three were banged in.

kallinikosdrama1992
09-11-2009, 06:25 AM
Well probably this is obvius , because it didnt have a turret so if it was disabled it was , completelly defenceless !!!

tankgeezer
09-11-2009, 04:19 PM
After very detailed searching, I have found which munition was used to knock out the Jagdpanther. :)

kallinikosdrama1992
09-11-2009, 05:34 PM
I think you're ... Nothing else could penetrate panzers armor .... :lol: .........
But i am curius : what was able to shoot something like that ... ??? Guess it's not WWII weapon

tankgeezer
09-11-2009, 06:20 PM
I think you're ... Nothing else could penetrate panzers armor .... :lol: .........
But i am curius : what was able to shoot something like that ... ??? Guess it's not WWII weapon

The actual caption for this pic indicated that it was a round from the German 800mm Railway gun "Gustav" used against Russia in the 40's an excerpt from wiki follows:

High Explosive

* Weight of projectile: 4.8 t (4,800 kg)
* Muzzle velocity: 820 m/s
* Maximum range: 48 km
* Explosive mass: 700 kg
* Crater size: 30 ft (10 m) wide 30 ft (10 m) deep.

[edit] AP Shell

The main body was made of chrome-nickel steel, fitted with an aluminium alloy ballistic nose cone.

* Length of shell: 3.6 m
* Weight of projectile: 7.1 t (7,100 kg)
* Muzzle velocity: 720 m/s
* Maximum range: 38 km
* Explosive mass: 250 kg
* Penetration: In testing it was demonstrated to penetrate 7 metres of concrete at maximum elevation (beyond that available during combat) with a special charge [2].

you may note in the pic that the driving band is pre-rifled so that upon firing, chamber pressures will remain in the safe range.

Panzerknacker
09-11-2009, 06:25 PM
After very detailed searching, I have found which munition was used to knock out the Jagdpanther.

If a tank was hit with that the only tool you going to need to salvage it would be this.....

http://santucci.com.uy/osCommerce/catalog/images/cuchara%20de%20mesa.jpg

tankgeezer
09-11-2009, 07:07 PM
Ha! very true my friend,that and a tweezer,,,,(small tweezer)

tankgeezer
09-12-2009, 08:44 PM
Here is a link to a video showing among other things the Gustav, and Dora guns in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IAD0g8Xgfk

VonWeyer
09-13-2009, 01:14 AM
If a tank was hit with that the only tool you going to need to salvage it would be this.....

http://santucci.com.uy/osCommerce/catalog/images/cuchara%20de%20mesa.jpg

I agree with Panzerknacker on this one.;)

Panzerknacker
09-13-2009, 05:38 PM
The little spoon was quite graphic. :D

bluedonkey99
12-30-2009, 04:17 PM
Going back to ther original point of the Jagdpanther,

I have seen this Jagdpanther at the IWM in London, does anyone have photos of it from a) the cutaway side b) the interior?

I may be either a) being pedantic, b) mistaken? as i think the jagdpanther may have been disabled or immobilised rather than destroyed...

You can actually look inside this AFV (as indicated by the child peering in from the side on the second phot)

Certainly the interior as i recall didnt look like it had been brewed-up?

If you compare it to the Panther Ausf F turret at Bovington, that clearly has been destroyed (although not sure if in combat, or in post war trials?)

cheers
BD99

edit: I managed to dig out the photos ( I have included links from my own host, on the basis I could fall foul of oversize image posting regs):

IWM (sorry about the quality they were taken a few years back on a Phone!)
http://kampfgruppe144.com/images/Armour/IWM/jagdpanther/Jagdpanther-IWM-London-d.jpg

http://kampfgruppe144.com/images/Armour/IWM/jagdpanther/Jagdpanther-IWM-London-c.jpg

http://kampfgruppe144.com/images/Armour/IWM/jagdpanther/Jagdpanther-IWM-London-e.jpg

The Ausf F photos from Bovington are here (digi-cam);
http://kampfgruppe144.com/images/Armour/Bovington%20800x600/IMG_2033.JPG
http://kampfgruppe144.com/images/Armour/Bovington%20800x600/IMG_2026.JPG

800x600 and 3000x2000 sized (digi-cam) photos of this and other exhibits can be found here:
http://kampfgruppe144.com/Bovington_00.htm

If you would like to see the other (phone) pictures of the IWM Jagdpanther:
http://kampfgruppe144.com/images/Armour/IWM/jagdpanther/Jagdpanther-IWM-London-a.jpg
http://kampfgruppe144.com/images/Armour/IWM/jagdpanther/Jagdpanther-IWM-London-b.jpg
http://kampfgruppe144.com/images/Armour/IWM/jagdpanther/Jagdpanther-IWM-London-f.jpg
http://kampfgruppe144.com/images/Armour/IWM/jagdpanther/Jagdpanther-IWM-London-g.jpg
http://kampfgruppe144.com/images/Armour/IWM/jagdpanther/Jagdpanther-IWM-London-h.jpg
http://kampfgruppe144.com/images/Armour/IWM/jagdpanther/Jagdpanther-IWM-London-i.jpg

forager
01-11-2010, 11:49 PM
So what happened to the crew?

Nickdfresh
01-13-2010, 07:10 AM
Not all tanks knocked out in combat "brew up." Many are simply damaged, immobilized, or rendered combat ineffective to be driven out of the area by their crews. To answer the above question with speculation, those not killed by the overpressure of the initial penetration may have walked away...