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88mmFlakCannon
09-03-2009, 04:30 AM
It is 12 of August,2009 sitting in my room in front of the computer disk that plays the german movie Der untergang which mean "The downfall" .

It was about the last days of Hitler and the second world war .

It is about to end but i couldn`t stand this anymore ,This is like a splinter in my head since I started to grow up and to know the real dark face of this world.

I am talking about the nature of human beings , What is the reason for wars ?
The 1st and the 2nd world wars ?

I especially choosed the 2nd one as it shows the deadliest period in the entire history, More than 50 million people died in the war , All countries concentrated its efforts to win , more and more shocking truths that cannot be all mentioned here.

Even if we looked at other past centuries , You can find that humans fight each other from the begining , Now the question is

Why do we do this ?

Why does the man kill his brother ?

What is the more precious than everything to take out my brother`s life ?

Is there really something worth for it?

Many asked before me and others will do so after me,Whatever happened , We still have a future which is worth to answer that question for saving it.

VonWeyer
09-03-2009, 04:41 AM
Here is my opinion...It is all because of the Downfall of man eg. greed, power, rebellion!

herman2
09-03-2009, 12:49 PM
What is the reason for wars
We really don't have wars anymore-we call them Freedom Incursions to eliminate weapons of Invisible Mass Destruction (which nobody ever finds-but they truly exist
We don't have POW's,- we call them enemy combatants.
We don't kill innocent civilians-we call it collateral damage
We don't rape women in the forests of Viet Nam- We democratize women in the sand with our seed, so new fruits of Americana are born
War will never be the same…..

88mmFlakCannon
09-03-2009, 03:21 PM
Here is my opinion...It is all because of the Downfall of man eg. greed, power, rebellion!
Cant all humans reach a neutral point ? Can`t we all have the same rights?

What is the reason for wars
We really don't have wars anymore-we call them Freedom Incursions to eliminate weapons of Invisible Mass Destruction (which nobody ever finds-but they truly exist
We don't have POW's,- we call them enemy combatants.
We don't kill innocent civilians-we call it collateral damage
We don't rape women in the forests of Viet Nam- We democratize women in the sand with our seed, so new fruits of Americana are born
War will never be the same…..
OMG..What is this? :shock:

You must be joking Sir right ?

These are just fake names for such crimes I see

kallinikosdrama1992
09-03-2009, 04:42 PM
Here is my opinion...It is all because of the Downfall of man eg. greed, power, rebellion!

von weyer is absolutely right . I couldn't agree more .

But dont forget one thing . The wars started when the human started to exist . Its one wanted to be better than the other . I would say that this could be something like war !!!

Schuultz
09-03-2009, 07:04 PM
There are many reasons why war lies in human nature:

1) Human beings are ,by nature, possessive creatures, just like any creature that considers certain areas 'its' territory. Look at Lions, look at Bears, look at Hippos - heck, even the Hummingbirds in my front lawn fight over the rights to the hummingbird-feeder.
Humans still do it, it's in our blood. It comes from a time when we didn't live in surplus and splendor, as we do now, but in a constant battle for food. If some assholes from a different tribe showed up and tried to take food from your already scarce territory, you would feel the need to defend it and fight.
Throughout the existence of humankind, this period still makes up over 90% of our history - so don't expect us to lose this instinct anytime soon.

2) Humans beings are pack animals. That means, if a member of my pack is attacked by an outsider, I'll help him. Just like you'll never see a wolf hunt (or fight) by himself, you won't have a human fight alone as long his friends are present, presuming there is a sense of 'Us' and 'Them'. You can observe this with anything from a gang fight, to a family feud, to a war.

3) Human beings are aggressive creatures. As possessive beings, Aggression sadly is a necessary part of our psychology. Without Aggression, we would have never been able to survive, as we would lack any will to defend our territory, or conquer new one if ours no longer suffices. It is a trait that is meant to protect us against anything we perceive as threats - the real danger lies within what the individual considers a threat. (Overly aggressive people, for example, consider anything from an insult to unwanted eye-contact a threat, and react accordingly)
This is why, whenever you see a country preparing for war, you'll find the propaganda machine displaying the enemy as a threat - if the people didn't feel threatened, they would lack the aggression to support a war.
Why do you think FOX News does its best to portray the Healthcare System as a threat to America? Why did the Bush Government create the myth of Iraqi WMDs? Why did Hitler fake Polish attacks on German border areas?

Sometimes, war is simply a necessity. What would have happened to the Russian people had they not successfully defended themselves against the Germans during WW2? At best, they would have been banished to the barren cold of Siberia, at worst they would have simply been annihilated, so that the German people would have a larger territory/habitat.
Regardless of what one things of Israel's right to exist in Palestine, the same could be applied there. If they hadn't gone to war with Lebanon, Egypt, etc, their people would have been doomed.
At the end of the day, almost every war has the same goal: To give a nation/tribe/whatever an advantage and, therefore, a better chance of survival.

Nobody questions the morals of wolves when they fight a rival pack for a larger territory. It should be seen as a sign of our Civilization that we even try to judge the morality of our wars.

VonWeyer
09-04-2009, 02:47 AM
Cant all humans reach a neutral point ? Can`t we all have the same rights?

I believe it is all about the choices we make. We all have the power to choose what to do.

88mmFlakCannon
09-04-2009, 06:08 AM
Cant all humans reach a neutral point ? Can`t we all have the same rights?

I believe it is all about the choices we make. We all have the power to choose what to do.
But what is controlling our choices ?

Our feelings or our brains ?

There are many reasons why war lies in human nature:

1) Human beings are ,by nature, possessive creatures, just like any creature that considers certain areas 'its' territory. Look at Lions, look at Bears, look at Hippos - heck, even the Hummingbirds in my front lawn fight over the rights to the hummingbird-feeder.
Humans still do it, it's in our blood. It comes from a time when we didn't live in surplus and splendor, as we do now, but in a constant battle for food. If some assholes from a different tribe showed up and tried to take food from your already scarce territory, you would feel the need to defend it and fight.
Throughout the existence of humankind, this period still makes up over 90% of our history - so don't expect us to lose this instinct anytime soon.

2) Humans beings are pack animals. That means, if a member of my pack is attacked by an outsider, I'll help him. Just like you'll never see a wolf hunt (or fight) by himself, you won't have a human fight alone as long his friends are present, presuming there is a sense of 'Us' and 'Them'. You can observe this with anything from a gang fight, to a family feud, to a war.

3) Human beings are aggressive creatures. As possessive beings, Aggression sadly is a necessary part of our psychology. Without Aggression, we would have never been able to survive, as we would lack any will to defend our territory, or conquer new one if ours no longer suffices. It is a trait that is meant to protect us against anything we perceive as threats - the real danger lies within what the individual considers a threat. (Overly aggressive people, for example, consider anything from an insult to unwanted eye-contact a threat, and react accordingly)
This is why, whenever you see a country preparing for war, you'll find the propaganda machine displaying the enemy as a threat - if the people didn't feel threatened, they would lack the aggression to support a war.
Why do you think FOX News does its best to portray the Healthcare System as a threat to America? Why did the Bush Government create the myth of Iraqi WMDs? Why did Hitler fake Polish attacks on German border areas?

Sometimes, war is simply a necessity. What would have happened to the Russian people had they not successfully defended themselves against the Germans during WW2? At best, they would have been banished to the barren cold of Siberia, at worst they would have simply been annihilated, so that the German people would have a larger territory/habitat.
Regardless of what one things of Israel's right to exist in Palestine, the same could be applied there. If they hadn't gone to war with Lebanon, Egypt, etc, their people would have been doomed.
At the end of the day, almost every war has the same goal: To give a nation/tribe/whatever an advantage and, therefore, a better chance of survival.

Nobody questions the morals of wolves when they fight a rival pack for a larger territory. It should be seen as a sign of our Civilization that we even try to judge the morality of our wars.
1)Even if it is in our blood ? Can`t we try to change it ?

Is there no way to persuade all humans to share thier territories and resources equally ?

2) Why can`t all humans be a LARGE pack under the name of [Human species]
Is there any way to make this world united ?

3)Oh This is really confusing :confused: All ways are blocked if there is no one who cares about his brother (I mean all humans) .

I really cannot reply on point 3 , Because you got many examples of the deadly human history , By logic : There is no way we can unit according to this path of history , But At least we got hope ... Right?

Schuultz
09-04-2009, 08:34 AM
1)Even if it is in our blood ? Can`t we try to change it ?

Is there no way to persuade all humans to share thier territories and resources equally ?

It has been an important part of our psychology for 95% of our existence - you can't change evolution that easily, and something like this will probably never change.


2) Why can`t all humans be a LARGE pack under the name of [Human species]
Is there any way to make this world united ?

Because our brains subliminally always creates packs. Your family is one of your packs. Your friends are one. Your town is one. Your nation is one.
Interestingly, from our birth on, humans classify their surroundings, and look for people of their own pack. This is why Caucasians see a huge variety in the looks of Caucasians, but less in Africans or Asians. However, an Asian sees a huge variety of looks in Asians, but less in Africans or Caucasians. This is because as a little child, our mind focuses on 'our own kind', meaning people who look like ourselves/established members of our pack such as our mom & dad.

The idea of a single, large human pack would only work if there was a tangible threat for ALL of humanity, against which we had to unite. Because otherwise, we always have sub-packs to face appropriate struggles:

My country is my pack in a struggle against another country. My state is my pack in a struggle against a different state. My town is my pack in a struggle against a different town. My friends are my pack in a struggle against a different group of people. My siblings are my pack in my struggle against my parents. And so on ad nauseum.

Cuts
09-04-2009, 08:21 PM
It is 12 of August,2009 sitting in my room in front of the computer disk that plays the german movie Der untergang which mean "The downfall" .

It was about the last days of Hitler and the second world war .

It is about to end but i couldn`t stand this anymore ,This is like a splinter in my head since I started to grow up and to know the real dark face of this world.

I am talking about the nature of human beings , What is the reason for wars ?
The 1st and the 2nd world wars ?

I especially choosed the 2nd one as it shows the deadliest period in the entire history, More than 50 million people died in the war , All countries concentrated its efforts to win , more and more shocking truths that cannot be all mentioned here.

Even if we looked at other past centuries , You can find that humans fight each other from the begining , Now the question is

Why do we do this ?

Why does the man kill his brother ?

What is the more precious than everything to take out my brother`s life ?

Is there really something worth for it?

Many asked before me and others will do so after me,Whatever happened , We still have a future which is worth to answer that question for saving it.


You started on the turps early.

88mmFlakCannon
09-05-2009, 04:45 AM
It has been an important part of our psychology for 95% of our existence - you can't change evolution that easily, and something like this will probably never change.


OMG Never change !

There is no possibility to spread peace at all like this :(

So I have to 2 remaining questions :

1) What will be the end of this human race this way ?

2) What is the use of United nations , peace callers or is specific

What does the word peace mean ? Does it exsists ?


The idea of a single, large human pack would only work if there was a tangible threat for ALL of humanity, against which we had to unite. Because otherwise, we always have sub-packs to face appropriate struggles


Great , We already (The entire human race) are facing challenges

We should unite in order to face it , No nation alone can solve

the problem of global warming as an example.

There are many threats such as this ,

So what are we waiting for to be that large pack

You started on the turps early.
Excuse me I didn`t get that :shock:

88mmFlakCannon
09-07-2009, 06:36 AM
Is there a problem Sir ? Can you respond ?

I am really seeking the truth

We may reach it through

our discussion

VonWeyer
09-07-2009, 07:44 AM
But what is controlling our choices ?

Our feelings or our brains ?

Both...we all see things in different ways due to cicumstances we have had do deal with in our lives. Feelings are not right or wrong. What makes you feel a certain way does not necessarily make another feel the same. What causes that feeling to become right or wrong is what we decide to do with it ie. what we choose to do with that feeling. An example would be murdering someone because they made you angry...we all have common sense, but sometimes that common sense can become clouded by an emotional unwellness like power or greed. For example Hitler was not satisfied with what he had. Common sense would have said to him to be satisfied, because if you attack another country it might start a war. He chose to ignore that and the rest is history.

I hope this is helping. My aim is not to try to confuse you.