PDA

View Full Version : I'd let the bastard die



Rising Sun*
08-21-2009, 09:11 AM
I don't care what's wrong with him.

I'd leave him to die in prison.

It's a kinder and vastly more just death than he handed out to the people on the plane, and than he'd get from Libya's bullshit 'justice' system.

Vote yes or no for letting the bastard die in prison.

(P.S. I'm sick to death of what I see as well-intentioned and theoretically principled humane but in practice woefully misplaced merciful sentencing principles like this which, for example, give a lenient sentence to an aged paedophile because he's finally come before the courts in his sixties or seventies and might die in prison if forced to serve his full sentence for destroying the lives of a few dozen kids over several decades. I reckon it'd be a service to the community to keep people like that in prison until they die, regardless of the age they go in at, because in almost every case they will offend again, whether or not they are ever detected.)


LONDON, England (CNN) -- It was "deeply distressing" and "deeply upsetting" to see the convicted Lockerbie bomber get a hero's welcome in Libya, British Foreign Secretary David Miliband said Friday.

The way Libya handles the return of Abdelbeset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi will determine its place on the world stage, Miliband said.

Al Megrahi, 57, was freed Thursday from the Scottish prison where he had been serving a life sentence for the 1988 bombing of Pan Am flight 103. He suffers from terminal prostate cancer and has three months to live, Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill said.

MacAskill released al Megrahi on compassionate grounds, saying he was going home to die. His decision was highly controversial, drawing criticism from the United States and dividing family members of the 270 Lockerbie victims.

A large crowd, waving flags and honking horns, greeted al Megrahi as he stepped off the plane Thursday in the Libyan capital.

"Obviously, the sight of a mass murderer getting a hero's welcome in Tripoli is deeply upsetting, deeply distressing," Miliband told BBC radio

Friday morning. He added that personally, "I find it deeply distressing of course, as well."

Miliband did not mention any opposition to al Megrahi's release in the BBC interview, but he did say that Libya must now act responsibly.

"I think it's very important that Libya knows, and certainly we have told them, that how the Libyan government handles itself in the next few days after the arrival of Mr. Megrahi will be very significant in the way the world views Libya's reentry into the civilized community of nations," Miliband said.

"It is in our interests to stand up for our own principles in the interests of international relations," he said. "Where Libya is willing to abide and engage in the international system in a way that does the right thing for those international principles, we will engage with Libya."

Al Megrahi always maintained his innocence, complaining that he had to spend years in prison for something he did not do.

"The remaining days of my life will have to be spent under the shadow of the wrongness of my conviction," he said in a statement issued Thursday through his attorney. Watch Lockerbie bomber maintain his innocence

He also offered sympathy to the families of the victims.

Al Megrahi said he never will return to Scotland, and he offered his gratitude and best wishes to the Scottish people.

The U.S. government responded Thursday to al Megrahi's release, saying it "deeply regrets" the decision.

"As we have expressed repeatedly to officials of the government of the United Kingdom and to Scottish authorities, we continue to believe that Megrahi should serve out his sentence in Scotland," the White House said in a statement. Watch President Obama say release is "mistake"

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton issued a similarly worded statement.

"Today, we remember those whose lives were lost on December 21, 1988, and we extend our deepest sympathies to the families who live each day with the loss of their loved ones due to this heinous crime," Clinton said.

And the FBI said in a statement it was "deeply disappointed" over the decision to release al Megrahi.

"In a case of mass murder over Lockerbie, Mr. Megrahi served less than 14 days per victim," FBI director Robert Mueller said in the statement.

The justice secretary said he decided not to transfer al Megrahi to a Libyan prison, even though a prisoner transfer agreement exists between the United Kingdom and Libya, but instead chose to set him free on compassionate grounds.

Families of the Lockerbie victims have been sharply divided over whether al Megrahi should ever be released.

Susan Cohen, who lost her 20-year-old daughter, was adamant about her position, calling al Megrahi a "mass murderer" and his release "appalling."

"Are we so devastatingly weak now, have we lost all our moral fiber that you can say that Megrahi can be released from prison for a compassionate release? Where was his compassion for my daughter? Where was his compassion for all those people," Cohen told "American Morning." Watch Cohen condemn the release

Bert Ammerman, whose brother died in the bombing, called al Megrahi's release "ludicrous."

"First of all, he got his compassionate release when he got life imprisonment and not capital punishment, which Scotland doesn't have," Ammerman told CNN. He should have remained in prison, then after his death, his body could have been returned to Libya, he said.

"Two, he's going to be going back, even if he has terminal cancer, as a hero, and he's going to be received as a hero in Libya," Ammerman said.

"Three, let's cut through all this information. He's being released because big business in the United States, Great Britain want the oil in Libya, and that's what's driving this whole wagon," he said. iReport.com: My uncle never got to say goodbye

Al Megrahi was convicted in 2001 after the prosecution argued he had placed the bomb, hidden in a suitcase, on a flight from Malta to Frankfurt, Germany. There, prosecutors said, the bomb was transferred onto the Pan Am plane that went first to London, England's Heathrow Airport and then took off for New York.

Another man -- Al-Amin Khalifa Fahima -- was also tried in the bombing but was acquitted.

The prosecution maintained al Megrahi, who worked at Malta's Luqa Airport, was an agent for the Libyan intelligence services and had been seen buying clothes that were in the suitcase that contained the bomb.

Libya has formally accepted responsibility for the bombing and has compensated the families, though Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi later denied any culpability.

"Scotland will forever remember the crime that has been perpetrated against our people and those from many other lands," MacAskill said. "The pain and suffering will remain forever. Some hurt can never heal. Some scars can never fade.

"However, Mr. al Megrahi now faces a sentence imposed by a higher power. It is one that no court, in any jurisdiction, in any land, could revoke or overrule. It is terminal, final and irrevocable. He is going to die."

Pan Am flight 103 exploded over the Scottish town of Lockerbie four days before Christmas in 1988 while traveling from London to New York. All 259 of those aboard the plane -- including 189 Americans -- and 11 people on the ground were killed. http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/08/21/scotland.lockerbie.bomber/

pdf27
08-21-2009, 10:58 AM
Well, the Libyans just blew any chance of any other prisoners being returned to them in the next 5 years, from anywhere in the world....

martyn williams
08-21-2009, 11:47 AM
I think that they were told to let him go in order to get Libyan contracts worth millions to the UK and USA.
He should have been left to die in jail.
But also remember that the USA also donated millions of pounds to terrorists,remember the way the IRA we given a heros welcome in the US.They murdered hundreds of UK people for some obscure cause dateing back in time.
Our thoughts go to the people that died that night and the reletives that are still greiving.

Rising Sun*
08-21-2009, 12:33 PM
Well, the Libyans just blew any chance of any other prisoners being returned to them in the next 5 years, from anywhere in the world....

I suspect that there would be more justice in the traffic going the other way.

boyne_water
08-21-2009, 04:15 PM
I remember that night well.It was a horror story made real. Lockerbie is a small,quiet market town.
Where i have difficulty with this case is that the evidence dosn,t seem to be all that conclusive as to Mr Megrahi,s guilt.
i wouldn,t claim to be an expert on this matter,but as long as there appears to be some doubt then some compassion is warranted.
My main reason for personal doubt has come from watching Dr Jim Swire on many occassions on Scottish television saying he did not believe Mr Megrahi to be responsible for this act.
(Dr Swires daughter Flora died on Flight 103)
I do realize he was found guilty,and that perhaps my argument is as such flawed,but it is my view of yesterdays events.

flamethrowerguy
08-21-2009, 05:41 PM
It's a scandal. I've seen lots of blokes die in prison for much less than murder in 270 cases.

Nickdfresh
08-22-2009, 03:33 AM
I knew someone on that plane... :(

Rising Sun*
08-22-2009, 08:00 AM
Where i have difficulty with this case is that the evidence dosn,t seem to be all that conclusive as to Mr Megrahi,s guilt.
i wouldn,t claim to be an expert on this matter,but as long as there appears to be some doubt then some compassion is warranted.
My main reason for personal doubt has come from watching Dr Jim Swire on many occassions on Scottish television saying he did not believe Mr Megrahi to be responsible for this act.
(Dr Swires daughter Flora died on Flight 103)
I do realize he was found guilty,and that perhaps my argument is as such flawed,but it is my view of yesterdays events.

Against that is the fact that the standard of proof in his trial was the criminal standard of 'beyond reasonable doubt' and his conviction was upheld on appeal.

For all we know he (like anyone else convicted of an offence) mightn't have done it, but the trial judges decided that he did after they'd heard all the evidence for and against his guilt, and the appeal judges didn't find any miscarriage of justice in his trial.

In those circumstances there is no reason to treat him as anything but guilty of callously murdering nearly 300 people.

That doesn't entitle him to any compassion that extends to letting him go home to die. Just proper medical treatment in gaol until he dies, which is still vastly more compassion than he showed to his victims.

boyne_water
08-22-2009, 08:30 AM
I accept it is a fact Mr Megrahi was found guilty.
It is also a fact ther was no jury,the trial was heard in front of 5 judges.
Like the Diplock courts in N.I. this makes me uneasy.
Another person who has cast doubt upon the evidence is Lord Fraser who drew up the
arrest warrants.He cast doubt on the evidence of Tony Gauci,although he did say he did not beleive Mr Megrahi was innocent.
I think this and the amount of political shenanigans at the time of the trial means i have doubts about the whole process.
In case you get the wrong idea about me,if i thought he was guilty i would be protesting
his release.

Rising Sun*
08-22-2009, 08:54 AM
I accept it is a fact Mr Megrahi was found guilty.
It is also a fact ther was no jury,the trial was heard in front of 5 judges..

I thought the trial by judges rather than a jury was in accordance with Libya's terms for handing him over.

While a jury trial might seem preferable to remove doubt about the process for those of us in English-speaking countries, as a lawyer who's been practising for over thirty years I've always taken the view that if I was guilty I'd rather have a jury because they're easier to fool and if I was innocent I'd rather have a judge without a jury because they're more objective.

Which, as you say in reference to N.I, doesn't mean that political or other aspects don't cloud judges' thinking in cases such as this.

namvet
08-22-2009, 10:05 AM
if he is terminally ill I hope the bastard dies the most horrific and painful death there is.

Rising Sun*
08-22-2009, 10:20 AM
if he is terminally ill I hope the bastard dies the most horrific and painful death there is.

That works for me.

namvet
08-22-2009, 10:28 AM
Gaddafi duck thanks Brown for release


The Libyan leader has thanked Gordon Brown for the release of Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi.

Colonel Gadaffi said the UK prime minister had "encouraged" the Scottish Government to take what he called a "courageous" decision.

The Foreign Office has strongly denied claims the decision was linked to a trade deal between the UK and Libya.

Business Secretary Lord Mandelson said the allegation was "wrong, completely implausible and... quite offensive".

Colonel Gaddafi's son, Seif al-Islam, had told Libyan TV Megrahi's case was raised during talks over oil and gas.



source (source)

boyne_water
08-22-2009, 01:01 PM
Again i would say my coments have been my own view of this case.i understand other people have contrary views.i will say i have never wished death,quick slow or otherwise on another human.Perhaps some people wish an eye for eye.For me a full stop to violence may be an end.Of course im sure im wrong but i can hope.

32Bravo
08-22-2009, 03:39 PM
A very emotive topic. I didn't agree with the decision to relase him. In fact I thought the explanation for making the decision was somewhat niave. However, it is the decision of the Scotish justice system as the crime was committed in their country and, therefore, falls under their jurisdition.

Saxon
08-23-2009, 05:37 PM
I don't know enough details to give a firm opinion. But if he did do it, then he should have been hanged until dead.

However, as Scottish law no longer allows that, he should stay in prison until dead.

The victims did not get a chance to go home to die...





.

VonWeyer
08-24-2009, 07:00 AM
Away with him!