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32Bravo
06-02-2009, 03:10 PM
I have to ask!

Why is it that when i'm watching some U.S. film in which S.F. are portrayed, that more often than not they are waring a pair of shades as if a pair of RayBans, being rather special shades, means that they are particularly special soldiers. :army: Is this the perception of the American people?

It's like "Hey! Guys! Pose with the rifle and the RayBans and no one will question your abilities...what?...Oh yeah..Who give a shit if you're holding the weapon incorrectly!" or "They're S.F. they're wearing their RayBans with their fatigues!" :lol:

Dixie Devil
06-04-2009, 10:27 AM
Well I am not sure which film you are referring to but I will note that the military issues Oakley and Wily X sunglasses to most troops and both brands are rather expensive over here.

Or maybe the makers simply think that since the Special Forces are bad asses they have to be wearing cool shades to complement their attitudes.

Rising Sun*
06-04-2009, 11:01 AM
I have to ask!

Why is it that when i'm watching some U.S. film in which S.F. are portrayed, that more often than not they are waring a pair of shades as if a pair of RayBans, being rather special shades, means that they are particularly special soldiers. :army: Is this the perception of the American people?

It's like "Hey! Guys! Pose with the rifle and the RayBans and no one will question your abilities...what?...Oh yeah..Who give a shit if you're holding the weapon incorrectly!" or "They're S.F. they're wearing their RayBans with their fatigues!" :lol:

What about the Rambo style or even Willem Dafoe Platoon style (apparently modelled on Patsy's headgear in Monty Python and the Holy Grail) headbands?

And unbranded at that!

Nickdfresh
06-04-2009, 11:11 AM
What about the Rambo style or even Willem Dafoe Platoon style (apparently modelled on Patsy's headgear in Monty Python and the Holy Grail) headbands?

And unbranded at that!


Members of US special ops, such as the LURPs, often wore such bandannas (bandages actually) and headbands to break up their silhouette at night...

Dixie Devil
06-04-2009, 01:58 PM
Correct. In many hot humid areas such as Vietnam many troops would wear an bandage or towel rolled up into a headband. It would keep the sweat from running into the wearers face but at the same time not trap the heat on top of the head like a helmet or boonie hat would.

Rising Sun*
06-06-2009, 07:32 AM
Members of US special ops, such as the LURPs, often wore such bandannas (bandages actually) and headbands to break up their silhouette at night...

I can't see how the (alleged) Willem Dafoe type skull cap would help. It accentuates rather than breaks up the head sihouette, unless the veil on the back of the neck in the photo (which is of Tom Berenger who is who I had in mind in Platoon and not Willem Dafoe :oops: ) is meant to break up the image above the shoulder.

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080324/Villains/Platoon-Tom_l.jpg

Rising Sun*
06-06-2009, 10:10 AM
Members of US special ops, such as the LURPs, often wore such bandannas (bandages actually) and headbands to break up their silhouette at night...

There's something gnawing at me about all that.

There's bugger all silhouette at night most of the time in true jungle. Or even heavy to medium scrub.

Usually infantry and even special ops go into night harbours in jungle, because it's too unsafe to move.

The few who might move around still don't need headbands to break up virtually non-existent silhouettes. Even if they needed to break up a silhouette, a giggle hat with a bit of shrubbery would be more useful, which is what the the VC and PAVN used occasionally.

I've done exercises on reasonably moonlit nights in just moderate scrub where you could be within a few yards of either emplaced or mobile troops with full gear who used the land for concealment and who wouldn't have been any better off with headbands etc.

There may be some utility to these things, as there are to sunglasses for aviators, but that doesn't mean that the particular style is what is required, as with the style of sunglasses known as aviator sunglasses from the WWII pattern when they fail just about every current requirement. But they still look good, which may be why I still wear them. :D

Rising Sun*
06-06-2009, 10:33 AM
Correct. In many hot humid areas such as Vietnam many troops would wear an bandage or towel rolled up into a headband. It would keep the sweat from running into the wearers face but at the same time not trap the heat on top of the head like a helmet or boonie hat would.

I must be be in a nitpicking mode tonight, but I spent a few years working in an industry where we worked ten hour shifts five days a week starting from a bit below freezing (0C / 32F) in winter to very hot being well above (50C / 120F) with high humidity in summer, with steady physical work during the shift.

I can't imagine why anyone working in such heat would put anything they didn't have to on their head, because anything just increases the heat unnecessarily. I'd rather sweat than increase the heat.

forager
06-07-2009, 04:06 PM
I spent 16 months working with CIDG on the Cambodian border.
5th SFG.
Never wore shades on operations, but I wore one of them head rag thingies at least half the time.
Kept the sweat out of my eyes and mopped up in general.

Rest of the time I wore a pork-pie hat.
Kept the sun shaded a bit and did not interfere with vision.

Guys actually doing the work are little concerned with perceptions of others.
Emphasis is on the mission, proper equipment, and survival of mates and selves.

As far as actual shades, in those days the required style in camp or other rear areas was wire rim AF glasses.

Churchill
06-07-2009, 10:40 PM
Do you mean something like this?:

http://www.motifake.com/demotivational-poster/0801/blackwater-demotivational-poster-1199600788.jpg

=D

32Bravo
06-08-2009, 04:05 AM
Do you mean something like this?:

http://www.motifake.com/demotivational-poster/0801/blackwater-demotivational-poster-1199600788.jpg

=D

Yep!!!

flamethrowerguy
06-08-2009, 07:33 AM
I recall reading about the discrepancies between Rangers and Delta Force in Bowden's "Black Hawk Down". He wrote about Delta's stylish sun glasses as well as huge Casio wrist watches and fancy hair cuts. I remember a cartoon mentioned with Delta Force members wearing blow-dryers in their holsters instead of guns.

32Bravo
06-08-2009, 08:51 AM
I spent 16 months working with CIDG on the Cambodian border.
5th SFG.
Never wore shades on operations, but I wore one of them head rag thingies at least half the time.
Kept the sweat out of my eyes and mopped up in general.

Rest of the time I wore a pork-pie hat.
Kept the sun shaded a bit and did not interfere with vision.

Guys actually doing the work are little concerned with perceptions of others.
Emphasis is on the mission, proper equipment, and survival of mates and selves.

As far as actual shades, in those days the required style in camp or other rear areas was wire rim AF glasses.

When we were in the ulu, it was a very rare occassion if ever we chaps sighted the sun. We operated in an emerald twilight and shades would have been ridiculous there, but even in areas of intense sunlight, shades were not considered good practice, if you get my drift.

Rising Sun*
06-08-2009, 11:22 AM
Do you mean something like this?:

http://www.motifake.com/demotivational-poster/0801/blackwater-demotivational-poster-1199600788.jpg

=D


I'm sufficiently old fashioned to prefer spectacles which hook behind the ears.

They don't fall off.

Spectacles with straight arms either fall off or clamp to the head, which gives me a headache.

Then again, I use spectacles for the presently unusual purposes of improving sight or reducing glare rather than as fashion accessories where they spend most of their time sitting on top of the wearer's head accumulating hair grease to interfere with vision in the unlikely event they're actually used for that purpose.

Rising Sun*
06-08-2009, 11:26 AM
P.S. That awesome Blackwater bloke has a seriously bad hairy mole on the side of his face, even worse than a nightmare grandma could manage.

No wonder he's angry.

Dixie Devil
06-08-2009, 01:49 PM
I must be be in a nitpicking mode tonight, but I spent a few years working in an industry where we worked ten hour shifts five days a week starting from a bit below freezing (0C / 32F) in winter to very hot being well above (50C / 120F) with high humidity in summer, with steady physical work during the shift.

I can't imagine why anyone working in such heat would put anything they didn't have to on their head, because anything just increases the heat unnecessarily. I'd rather sweat than increase the heat.


To alleviate the need to continually wipe sweat out of ones face and eyes. Like anything though it is personal preferences. I prefer the dew rag type like is pictured above on Tom Berenger because it keeps your neck from getting burnt and in very short order it becomes soaked in sweat so you have the same effect as placing a wet rag on your head. Maybe not the most sanitary but it works.

32Bravo
06-08-2009, 02:55 PM
To alleviate the need to continually wipe sweat out of ones face and eyes. Like anything though it is personal preferences. I prefer the dew rag type like is pictured above on Tom Berenger because it keeps your neck from getting burnt and in very short order it becomes soaked in sweat so you have the same effect as placing a wet rag on your head. Maybe not the most sanitary but it works.

That may be so, but the standard British Army floppy hat is one of the better pieces of headgear for wearing in the jungle. As well as breaking up the outline of the head - as one of the basic lessons in fieldcraft explain the need to disguise 'shape' - it also prevents all kinds of unpleasant things from dropping onto your scalp from the foliage that you're passing through. As far as keeping the sun off the neck, well, its brim also serves to shade the neck and face from the effects of the sun if in a place where the sun is intense...the hat is of the same design as those worn in the desert, the colour being the difference. As for sweat getting into the eyes, it'll do that whatever head gear you happen to be wearing, or not wearing, however, again the brim of the hat does offer some protection from the rain particularly in the Ulu, where it continues to fall from the trees long after the rain clouds have given up.

As for wrapping something about the head: the British Army issue faceveil serves that purpose rather well, and by its nature assists in breaking up the outline/shape of the head, but that would become very hot in jungle conditions, unless at altitude. It is large enough to be worn about the head, shemagh fashion, allowing enough loose material to breakup the shape.

http://www.hayesotoupalik.com/images/DSCF1336.jpg

forager
06-08-2009, 03:35 PM
When we were in the ulu, it was a very rare occassion if ever we chaps sighted the sun. We operated in an emerald twilight and shades would have been ridiculous there, but even in areas of intense sunlight, shades were not considered good practice, if you get my drift.



The only times something like shades were worn was in the rear area.
Nobody is stoopid enough to wear them in triple canopy or sneaking about in the bush.

forager
06-08-2009, 03:38 PM
Do you mean something like this?:

http://www.motifake.com/demotivational-poster/0801/blackwater-demotivational-poster-1199600788.jpg

=D

Not even close.
They were pilots glassses green ectangles with straight earpieces.

They were not worn in the field.
They were in the Rolex, "Yard bracelet, demo knife, star sapphire and divorce arena of required SF gear.

32Bravo
06-09-2009, 03:52 AM
The only times something like shades were worn was in the rear area.
Nobody is stoopid enough to wear them in triple canopy or sneaking about in the bush.


Try telling Hollywood that :cool: , or those movie buffs that are unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality...by the way, is stoopid what we English would describe as being stupid? :lol:

Dixie Devil
06-09-2009, 05:15 PM
That may be so, but the standard British Army floppy hat is one of the better pieces of headgear for wearing in the jungle.


I certainly won't argue that fact. The only downside to a floppy hat (I assume that is the same as what is referred to as a bonnie hat here) is that it does hold more heat on top of the head when compared to a bandana but as you pointed out it breaks up outlines better and the brim is useful for keeping the sun out of the eyes. Like I said earlier it is just the personal preference of the wearer in the end.

Firefly
06-10-2009, 10:21 AM
The ones Ive encountered tend to slide towards the Oakleys in more recent years.

I wonder what drives the Military Sunglass market? SF Chique?

32Bravo
06-10-2009, 01:57 PM
it used to be this http://farm1.static.flickr.com/75/196786319_0ac699a304.jpg?v=1202592616


But I think it might be this

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xyzJAdMjrD8/RqcdHF7RquI/AAAAAAAAAZ0/OvaEhE7di9A/s320/1.jpg

32Bravo
06-10-2009, 02:05 PM
I certainly won't argue that fact. The only downside to a floppy hat (I assume that is the same as what is referred to as a bonnie hat here) is that it does hold more heat on top of the head when compared to a bandana but as you pointed out it breaks up outlines better and the brim is useful for keeping the sun out of the eyes. Like I said earlier it is just the personal preference of the wearer in the end.

In Borneo,British S.F. trimmed the sides off their floppy hats so that they were left with just a peak.

Check out my old hero Geordie :http://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fuk.images.search.yahoo.com% 2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dsas%2Bborneo%26ei%3DUTF-8%26y%3DSearch%26rd%3Dr1%26fr%3Dslv8-stage6%26fr2%3Dtab-web&w=238&h=240&imgurl=home.hccnet.nl%2F22.sas%2FBorneo%256066-kb.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.militaryphotos.net%2Fforums% 2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D33304&size=21k&name=Borneo%6066+kb+jpg&p=sas+borneo&oid=7574052bb5c2010c&fr2=tab-web&no=16&tt=71&sigr=11r4t6umk&sigi=1183tppl7&sigb=13fladb62

This chap is wearing a faceveil as a sweat rag, but he isn't patrolling, he's doing a bit of the old Hearts-and-minds - judging by the vest, I would guess he's an ANZAC

http://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fuk.images.search.yahoo.com% 2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dsas%2Bborneo%26ei%3DUTF-8%26y%3DSearch%26rd%3Dr1%26fr%3Dslv8-stage6%26fr2%3Dtab-web&w=238&h=240&imgurl=home.hccnet.nl%2F22.sas%2FBorneo%256066-kb.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.militaryphotos.net%2Fforums% 2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D33304&size=21k&name=Borneo%6066+kb+jpg&p=sas+borneo&oid=7574052bb5c2010c&fr2=tab-web&no=16&tt=71&sigr=11r4t6umk&sigi=1183tppl7&sigb=13fladb62#FCar=5ff825326360bcc8

And geordie with both floppy hat and faceveil. http://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fuk.images.search.yahoo.com% 2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dsas%2Bborneo%26b%3D22%26ni %3D21%26pstart%3D1%26fr2%3Dtab-web&w=800&h=600&imgurl=image54.webshots.com%2F154%2F0%2F95%2F71%2F 503309571KtSfbW_ph.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.webshots.com%2Fphoto%2F1503 309571015838489KtSfbW&size=119k&name=503309571KtSfbW+...&p=sas+borneo&oid=4730211013ffd662&fr2=tab-web&no=33&tt=71&b=22&ni=21&sigr=11omjl73s&sigi=11nd1qb7g&sigb=12sriqg29