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View Full Version : BAC TSR 2. The aircraft who wasnt.



Panzerknacker
05-03-2009, 02:39 PM
A very insightful domentry I ve found :

YouTube - TSR2 - Documentary - Part 1 of 6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqQ9iLvWV1s)
YouTube - TSR2 - Documentary - Part 2 of 6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VFSH12Uroc)
YouTube - TSR2 - Documentary - Part 3 of 6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kap5GQAO5h4)
YouTube - TSR2 - Documentary - Part 4 of 6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_EdoUuRo0U)
YouTube - TSR2 - Documentary - Part 5 of 6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnxtCCiq1nA)
YouTube - TSR2 - Documentary - Part 6 of 6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x98RRmb1Trk)

Could be correct to say that the mismanagement of the British goverment destroyed not only the TSR2 but also a good part of the UKs aircraft industry ?

Firefly
05-03-2009, 02:54 PM
The givt of the tie tied itself into the belief that missiles were more effective than aircraft and also tied itself into the US Govt. TSR2 was seen as a threat to the F-111 sales and he US offered the UK a deal for that ac. A deal that fell through which led directly to the Tornado in the RAF.

Pretty sad affair really and it did gut the aircraft industry, the only plane that survived was the lightening as it was too far advanced to cancel.

leccy
05-03-2009, 06:55 PM
The infamous 1957 White Paper

Yet another time when the UK was broke and had to make some desperate savings and its the military who suffered.

Uyraell
05-03-2009, 10:45 PM
I have also often wondered how much influence Moscow had in the matter.

Consider, the CF105 Arrow program was gutted at the same time.

The stark facts: In the TSR2 and the CF105 Nato and America would have had access to aircraft which the USSR would have been struggling to counter. Though Canadian, the CF105 would have been available to the UK at least, and would without doubt have seen use in Canada. Add the TSR2, CF105 and SR71 together, and you face a trio that would have been hard to counter.

Regards, Uyraell.

Panzerknacker
05-03-2009, 10:59 PM
The givt of the tie tied itself into the belief that missiles were more effective than aircraft and also tied itself into the US Govt. TSR2 was seen as a threat to the F-111 sales and he US offered the UK a deal for that ac. A deal that fell through which led directly to the Tornado in the RAF.

Pretty sad affair really and it did gut the aircraft industry, the only plane that survived was the lightening as it was too far advanced to cancel.


Is just crazy, specially if you realize the very, very poor the reliability of unmanned aircraft and missiles of the time. What those guys were thinking ? Some of the decissions of that time are so bad that resembles pretty much our country defense policy between 2000-2009.


The infamous 1957 White Paper

Yet another time when the UK was broke and had to make some desperate savings and its the military who suffered.



But it was so broken ? was it more an economical motivated move than a political one ?

http://i44.tinypic.com/9rimw3.jpg

pdf27
05-04-2009, 05:05 AM
Pretty sad affair really and it did gut the aircraft industry, the only plane that survived was the lightening as it was too far advanced to cancel.
Errr... The Lightning was "Too advanced to cancel" during Sandystorm (1957), which was also when the whole "missiles .vs. bombers" thing was at it's height (incidentally, I think the RAF was more at fault for that than Sandys - compare and contrast with how Mountbatten handled that defence review).

The TSR.2 was cancelled in 1965...

Uyraell
05-04-2009, 04:42 PM
Ok, I'm going to be a little mischievious and ask a Question:

"What was the most prominent technological advance from the TSR2 program, where did it end up, doing what?"

The Aviation fans among you may well know, though only for that reason am I being a little obscure, otherwise the question becomes way too easy.

(I do assure that there is a link to comparatively modern times, and to WW2 also.)

Regards, Uyraell.

pdf27
05-04-2009, 05:13 PM
Well, I have a distant descendent of the one I consider most prominent in the glovebox of my car...

Uyraell
05-05-2009, 01:43 AM
Well, I have a distant descendent of the one I consider most prominent in the glovebox of my car...

The question accent is of an engineering, rather than navigational nature, though you do bring up another rather prominent technological advance in your reply.

Kind Regards, Uyraell.

Panzerknacker
05-06-2009, 09:35 PM
Other interesting G.O.R design by Fairey.

General Operations Requirement 339 of 1957 called for a new tactical strike and reconnaissance aircraft as a supersonic replacement for the English Electric Canberra. The Fairey Aircraft Company, using data from the Delta projects submitted this canard design in early 1958. With two Rolls Royce RB142R or Olympus 15R engines as power-plants the design had proposed armament of 6 x 1000lb bombs, Red Beard rockets or rocket packs. The aircraft was never developed: the BAC TSR 2 being the eventual 'winner' of the requirement*.
Span: 10.6m (34' 8") Length: 30.7m (100' 9") Max. Speed: Mach 2.15 at 36,000ft

GOR339_thumbs (http://www.xplanes3d.com/Projects%20Pages/GOR339/GOR339_Thumbs.html)

http://www.xplanes3d.com/Images/GOR339/GOR339_scene_1.jpg

http://www.xplanes3d.com/Images/GOR339/GOR339_scene_2.jpg


http://www.xplanes3d.com/Images/GOR339/GOR339_scene_3.jpg


http://www.xplanes3d.com/Images/GOR339/GOR339_scene_6.jpg

Uyraell
05-07-2009, 10:04 AM
Other interesting G.O.R design by Fairey.


GOR339_thumbs (http://www.xplanes3d.com/Projects%20Pages/GOR339/GOR339_Thumbs.html)

http://www.xplanes3d.com/Images/GOR339/GOR339_scene_1.jpg

http://www.xplanes3d.com/Images/GOR339/GOR339_scene_2.jpg


http://www.xplanes3d.com/Images/GOR339/GOR339_scene_3.jpg


http://www.xplanes3d.com/Images/GOR339/GOR339_scene_6.jpg

**Hands Panzerknacker a Bottle of Malbec and a goblet**

Well Done Pk !! :D.

The Bristol Olympus engines of TSR2 and the Fairey design above went on to a successful civilian career powering Concorde. They were almost the only survivor of the TSR2 debacle.
_____________

The World War Two link is Roland Beamont: Test Pilot of the TSR2, and former WW2 Typhoon and Tempest pilot.
_____________

[For a slightly more difficult, yet TSR2-related Question: name another unusual aircraft (one of which survives in obscurity to this day by virtue of a unique engineering/structural feature) built to a similar G.O.R as TSR2.]
_____________

Warm and Respectful Regards, Uyraell.

Panzerknacker
05-07-2009, 06:39 PM
You are welcome.

The "Design Timeline" by English Electric...

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/7914/25013770.jpg (http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=25013770.jpg)
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/5900/77742160.jpg (http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=77742160.jpg)
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2717/47215778.jpg (http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=47215778.jpg)
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/8991/25772901.jpg (http://img387.imageshack.us/my.php?image=25772901.jpg)
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4450/33905740.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=33905740.jpg)
http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/8648/29381908.jpg (http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=29381908.jpg)

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum