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freyir_33
04-19-2009, 02:52 AM
It might be unknown to many, but the Soviet aeronautic industry where far ahead of the west, especially in the beginning of the thirties. I have found a program on History channel who re wails some of the designs including rare film footage.

Especially interesting is it, that the Soviets develops, jet and rocket engines simultaneously with the Germans, but are stopped by Stalin. Incredible what could have emerged out of Soviet air design if they did not have to fight the challenge of both Stalins paranoia, and moving the hole industry behind Ural.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgX0rvvA66M&feature=related

Nickdfresh
04-19-2009, 04:45 AM
The History Channel programs which covered the full spectrum of combatant air forces in WWII were very interesting. However, they were hyperbolic on several designs making them sound far more advanced than they actually were...

A specific example would be on the Luftwaffe program where they made the Ta183 sound as if it was ready to be deployed by 1947 when in fact it was several years off from 1945 and was barely on a drawing board. They also vastly overrated its projected performance...

freyir_33
04-20-2009, 01:28 AM
The History Channel programs which covered the full spectrum of combatant air forces in WWII were very interesting. However, they were hyperbolic on several designs making them sound far more advanced than they actually were...

A specific example would be on the Luftwaffe program where they made the Ta183 sound as if it was ready to be deployed by 1947 when in fact it was several years off from 1945 and was barely on a drawing board. They also vastly overrated its projected performance...

Agree, appart from the fact, that the Ta183 was further developed than, "barely on the drawing board".

http://www.luft46.com/fw/ta183-i.html

Chevan
04-20-2009, 03:04 AM
I do agree with Nick, indeed the History CHannels programns makers like to overestimate the facts , for show-populatiry purposes.
As well they like to add - it was STalin who stopped the developing super-mega-wearpon( very frivolous approach IMO).
If , as Westerners claimed to be, Stalin was a man who dreamed to conquered all the Wrold - why he shall to stop all the BEST Soviet military designs?
This is stupidity, but as we know Stalin was not a stupid:)
Indeed the Soviet had its own perspective projects ( as the Germans and Americans) , that however, were technically/economicaly/tactically useless or danger for real operational service in Army.
One of such thing was the Soviet Jet fighter/intercepter Bi-1, with liquid rocket engine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bereznyak-Isayev_BI-1
It may to fly with speed 800 km/h in 1943.
But technically - it was dead end of aviation.
So it was denied finaly , becouse the future was belong to Jet Aviation.

Nickdfresh
04-20-2009, 09:35 AM
Agree, appart from the fact, that the Ta183 was further developed than, "barely on the drawing board".

http://www.luft46.com/fw/ta183-i.html

Even with that link, the first test beds weren't expected to be fielded until October of 1945. With testing -and I made an error in my post when I stated "1947" (I meant 1946)- the Ta183 wouldn't have been combat worthy until the beginning of 1947 at the earliest. Secondly, when the aircraft evolved into what was produced in Argentina in the early 1950s, the performance was very disappointing and it was hardly the world-beater that the History Channel made it out to be...

freyir_33
04-30-2009, 01:25 PM
I do agree with Nick, indeed the History CHannels programns makers like to overestimate the facts , for show-populatiry purposes.


True, but Soviet aviation was still ahead of its time in the beginning of the Thirties, and to some extents, even the Mig-3 at the beginning of the War.

Try to compare the I-16(1933) or the I-153 with series produced planes available in the west at that time, or even the TB-3 from 1929.

Some of these designs was later copied by western aviation makers, mostly know was the retractable landing gear on fighter planes.

Librarian
04-15-2010, 08:38 AM
And after a long time, here is a nice artistic rendering of that notorious experimental rocket-powered Soviet birdie, previously mentioned by Mr. Chevan:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/Bereznyak-IsaevinterceptorbySmallwo.jpg

Bereznyak-Isaev BI-1 rocket-powered interceptor by Brian O'Loughlin

I do hope, honorable ladies and gentlemen, that you will get pleasure from this good-looking example of modern 3D digital rendering. :)

In the meantime, as always – all the best! :)

Nickdfresh
04-15-2010, 04:21 PM
What a great picture, screensaver worthy actually!

burp
04-16-2010, 08:38 AM
This is stupidity, but as we know Stalin was not a stupid:)
Stalin wasn't stupid, he was totally insane, it's quite different.
Regarding the BI-1, the high official that supports the project from beginning, Mikhail
Tukhachevsky, died in Stalin's purge, the head of project BI-1, Viktor Fedovorich Bolkhovitinov, was arrested under Stalin's purge but survive them, the absence of this two people are the main reason of failing to achieve operational status of BI-1.
Main reason that explains why armored and infantry german force can win against better-armed and more numerous russian (that in 1941 Operation Barbarossa already have T-34, KV-1, Tokarev SVT-40 and PPSH-41) is that Stalin's purge kill too much officials, regardless their value in combat. Five years of war kill a smaller number of officials than the Stalin's purge, purge that Stalin want because people doesn't agree with him.

About Soviet Xplanes, i will search my there is an interesting book about it. Anyway, soviet designer cannot be at the same level of german lacking their industrial complex that promote technical education and also the official support from high military ranking
for their too much innovative designer. Anyway, from Fedorov "Avtomat" assault rifle (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as86-e.htm) to Mig-29 russian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig-29) prove that they have a lot of good engineers.

Librarian
04-16-2010, 09:15 AM
Thank you very much for your truly kind words, my dear Mr. Nickdfresh. You know, I always liked those forgotten projects, and I am assuring you that numerous artistic renderings regarding some absolutely magnificent American projects are also in my artistic repository. They will be presented on our distinguished web-site as well – you have my word of honor. :)

And, no my dear Mr. Burp – actually Mr. Stalin was only constantly overanxious, and obsessed with security, but otherwise not insane. For example, he directly ordered unswerving embracement and incorporation of several truly talented, but habitually neglected German constructors, into common Socialist Defence System. Here is, for example, an quite forgotten example:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/SW1.jpg

Skrzhinsky-Wiesske VTP - 1

Herr Wiesske actually was a former fighter pilot of the Luftwaffe, but that was not an impassable obstacle for his engineering activation during the DDR epoch. I do have somewhere in my library even the article about him and his charming little concept, which was revived in early nineties, this time as a helicopter design submitted by the Phillip Morris Design Prize winner, Herr Alex Faller (Reaktionshubschrauber).

Quite a mean and lively little coop Soviet-German thing, don’t you think so? :D

Well, that’s all for today. In the meantime, as always – all the best! ;)

Tiger205
05-13-2010, 02:54 AM
THE REAL Soviet UFO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cThIbDONerI&feature=related