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Rising Sun*
03-29-2009, 07:40 AM
My son wants to join the Australian Army Reserve, as a rifleman.

After doing all the recruitment steps and being ready to sign up, he was told a month ago that there wouldn't be any vacancies for riflemen for a year.

There were a few other current vacancies for non-combat or combat support roles, which don't interest him. (Stupid little *****! I told him to get a job in the Pay Corps where he'd be warm; dry; safe; never have to do picquet duty; and be surrounded by government money which isn't all that well accounted for, but he knows better. :D)

I am astonished that our Army is so blessed that it doesn't need one more rifleman for twelve months.

Meanwhile the services are bleating about not being able to recruit people.

Go figure.

Nickdfresh
03-29-2009, 09:09 AM
Interesting...

Is it the both the Reserve and active force that is full up or did they give him options to go into the full time Army?

Are their vacancies in the other reserve branches? For instance, I have no idea about the Royal Australian Air Force, but I've begun exploring possibly joining up with the US Air National Guard or USAF Reserve as ground combat Security Policemen, with duties not unlike being in the infantry. Except you sleep in a nice warm bed and have mostly excellent garrison facilities over the field as one is defending a nice comfortable air base that is paved and has showers, instead of some muddy hill in tents... :D

Schuultz
03-29-2009, 10:31 AM
Wow, that's the first time I've ever heard of an army not wanting a new recruit!

Is the Australian Army in so few missions at the moment? Or could it be that the current recession lead to a boom in enlistments?

mike M.
03-29-2009, 12:36 PM
I think that is a sign of the times, my son was turned down from the Marines, Air force and Army because of his tattoos. The navy would take him but the didn't have the job he wanted available. As things get tougher in the economy more people move to the military and it shows..they are not hurting for new recruits to the basic fields.
The military is a great place to start your career and people know that. I joined the Air force in 1977 as a crash fire fighter with a high school ,diploma..and today I make more than twice what my wife does and she has a college degree.
Tell your son to wait the year or take the job that will train him in heavy equipment..those guys make good money.

Rising Sun*
03-29-2009, 05:43 PM
Interesting...

Is it the both the Reserve and active force that is full up or did they give him options to go into the full time Army?

I don't know if the regular army is full, but he wasn't offered that as an alternative


Are their vacancies in the other reserve branches?

I don't know, but my son's not interested in them. He might share my view that at least when you get shot in the army you don't have to contend with the fresh problem of being shipwrecked or hitting the ground from 30,000 feet as well as being wounded.


For instance, I have no idea about the Royal Australian Air Force, but I've begun exploring possibly joining up with the US Air National Guard or USAF Reserve as ground combat Security Policemen, with duties not unlike being in the infantry. Except you sleep in a nice warm bed and have mostly excellent garrison facilities over the field as one is defending a nice comfortable air base that is paved and has showers, instead of some muddy hill in tents... :D

Sounds quite civilized. Apart from the air base being a nice big juicy target and being shelled and bombed. ;) :D

Rising Sun*
03-29-2009, 05:48 PM
Is the Australian Army in so few missions at the moment? Or could it be that the current recession lead to a boom in enlistments?

It could be the recession, but it might have something to do with the Reserve being integrated into the regular army and having a fixed establishment which has been reached in some corps.

We're not short of regular army deployments at the moment, from various peacekeeping type operations to combat and other forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. At the risk of sounding callous, two vacanices have come up in Afghanistan in the past couple of weeks, but they'll be filled from the regular army.

Rising Sun*
03-29-2009, 06:00 PM
Tell your son to wait the year or take the job that will train him in heavy equipment..those guys make good money.

He was offered a combat engineer position, which was the nearest thing to a combat role, but he's an apprentice carpenter and doesn't feel like joining the Reserve to do pretty much what he's doing 5 to 7 days every week.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the recruiters can get any number of riflemen but not too many trade trained people, so they structured things to encourage him to join as a combat engineer. The Reserve is clearly keen to get trade trained people as it has a very good apprentice training scheme which puts reserve soldiers with civilian employers. And, believe it or not, they're currently looking for apprentice carpenters. http://www.defencereserves.com/aspx/Apprenticeship_Scheme.aspx Or maybe I'm just too cynical about armed service recruiters, who as we all know have always been honest beyond reproach. ;) :D

Rising Sun*
03-29-2009, 06:34 PM
my son was turned down from the Marines, Air force and Army because of his tattoos.


Why do tattoos disqualify him? Location on body; size of tattoo; or type of tattoo?

mike M.
03-29-2009, 11:11 PM
Why do tattoos disqualify him? Location on body; size of tattoo; or type of tattoo?


Tattoos have become very popular here in the States with the younger generation, anything racist or gang related isn't tolerated. In my sons case..it was quantity of tats..even though I asked him not to do it, he went and got one arm sleeved, from the wrist to the shoulder. why should he listen to his old man..what do I know.
Here in Los Angeles..the younger fire fighters and policemen were getting lots of tats so now LAFD and LAPD have a tattoo policy with new recruits. The older guys if they have them now have to wear long sleeves all year long.
Another popular thing to do now here with the younger bucks..is shaving your head..don't ask me why, I guess it looks cool or makes you look tough..

Rising Sun*
03-30-2009, 03:31 AM
Tattoos have become very popular here in the States with the younger generation,

Same here.

Not just the kids.

Nothing looks tackier than some fat sheila in her fifties or sixties with a fresh tattoo, usually on the tit, neck, shoulder or above the bum, where the top of her thong sits on a ridge of wobbly flesh.


why should he listen to his old man..what do I know.

Why should you be any luckier than the rest of us ignorant dads? ;) :D


Another popular thing to do now here with the younger bucks..is shaving your head..don't ask me why, I guess it looks cool or makes you look tough..

That and those near shaved military cuts favoured by US cops are popular here with a lot of our cops. Just makes them look like wannabes to me, not that I'm going to say that when some uniformed bonedome pulls me up at a booze bus.

Richie B
03-30-2009, 04:11 AM
Nothing looks tackier than some fat sheila in her fifties or sixties with a fresh tattoo, usually on the tit, neck, shoulder or above the bum, where the top of her thong sits on a ridge of wobbly flesh.



That mental image has completely put me off my breakfast :mrgreen:

Schuultz
03-30-2009, 06:31 AM
why should he listen to his old man..what do I know.
Why should you be any luckier than the rest of us ignorant dads? ;) :D


Aw, jeez, you guys are coughing dust on me!;)

:lol:

Dixie Devil
03-30-2009, 07:48 AM
I know in the U.S. Army recruiters can get bonuses for filling positions that are in higher demand so perhaps that is why they are trying to push him towards another MOS. Just a thought because they tried that with me but they won't go so far as to lose a recruit just because they can't get him into the position they want to fill.

Something else to think about, Combat Engineers do build lots of things but they are also the ones tasked with blowing up bridges :D and usually are the lucky ones that get to clear mine fields.:shock: (Assuming that Combat Engineers fill the same niche in the in the Australian Army as they do in the U.S. Army) It may not be a nice cushy job by any means but it will be quite different than what he is doing as a carpenter.

Rising Sun*
03-30-2009, 08:03 AM
Something else to think about, Combat Engineers do build lots of things but they are also the ones tasked with blowing up bridges :D and usually are the lucky ones that get to clear mine fields.:shock: (Assuming that Combat Engineers fill the same niche in the in the Australian Army as they do in the U.S. Army) It may not be a nice cushy job by any means but it will be quite different than what he is doing as a carpenter.

Actually, he did give it a bit of serious thought when he found out about blowing things up, which all well-balanced blokes always enjoy :D, but he wants to be a grunt for some crazy reason (which, admittedly, so did I at his age, but I opted for cavalry as I've never seen the point of walking when you can ride, and you can carry so many more items of comfort on a vehicle.).

To encourage him towards cavalry, or anything not a grunt, I offered to dig him a weapon pit in the back yard so he could sleep, eat, piss and shit in it for a week while I hosed him and his pit for a couple of hours in every twelve hours and fed him on Spam and crackers with no water apart from what was in the pit to see how he liked being a grunt. But he assured me that the modern army and modern warfare are different. True, perhaps, but not for commandos in some surveillance or far forward positions, and my son wants to be a commando. (I thought about it at his age, but the one mile or whatever it was swim in the ocean as one of the qualifying tests put me off, as I have an aversion to drowning.)

What was that that mike m said about what would his dad know?

Schuultz
03-30-2009, 08:45 AM
To encourage him towards cavalry, or anything not a grunt, I offered to dig him a weapon pit in the back yard so he could sleep, eat, piss and shit in it for a week while I hosed him and his pit for a couple of hours in every twelve hours and fed him on Spam and crackers with no water apart from what was in the pit to see how he liked being a grunt. But he assured me that the modern army and modern warfare are different.

It is very different at the moment, mainly because most modern armies are in occupying missions, which means they won't have to spend too much time in foxholes and more in occupied buildings, transport vehicles and base camp.
It also means that you don't have a visible, regular enemy to fight, which can be very psychologically taxing.
But at the same time this means that in a regular firefight, the modern soldier has a huge advantage over his enemy, other than in Vietnam, for example.
In Vietnam it was Soldier with modern machine gun and air support against soldier with less modern machine gun and without air support.
Now it is soldier with highly modern machine gun, air, artillery, gunship, UAV and helicopter support against militia with old machine gun (or partially even semi/bolt action).

In many ways the modern soldier has turned from the main fighting force to a force on the ground who fights relatively little and rather calls in the big toys. Why do you think there's so few casualties compared to Vietnam, Korea, etc?

PS: Most modern armies are in very hot desert climates at the moment, so instead of showering him in rain you should build him a custom 'hat' with 3 UV lights constantly shining down on him. That would probably be more like it.


True, perhaps, but not for commandos in some surveillance or far forward positions, and my son wants to be a commando. (I thought about it at his age, but the one mile or whatever it was swim in the ocean as one of the qualifying tests put me off, as I have an aversion to drowning.)

That sounds more like Frogmen to me? I read about the German ones, and the shit they have to be able to do in/under water is just amazing. I'd probably drown during the first tryouts...

Rising Sun*
03-30-2009, 09:40 AM
It is very different at the moment, mainly because most modern armies are in occupying missions, which means they won't have to spend too much time in foxholes and more in occupied buildings, transport vehicles and base camp.
It also means that you don't have a visible, regular enemy to fight, which can be very psychologically taxing.
But at the same time this means that in a regular firefight, the modern soldier has a huge advantage over his enemy, other than in Vietnam, for example.
In Vietnam it was Soldier with modern machine gun and air support against soldier with less modern machine gun and without air support.
Now it is soldier with highly modern machine gun, air, artillery, gunship, UAV and helicopter support against militia with old machine gun (or partially even semi/bolt action).

In many ways the modern soldier has turned from the main fighting force to a force on the ground who fights relatively little and rather calls in the big toys. Why do you think there's so few casualties compared to Vietnam, Korea, etc?

SAS / Commando types in Vietnam could be in static positions for days, pissing and shitting where they were into holes just deep enough to cover the smell, and doing it lying down to avoid breaking cover.

I suspect that the modern troops in similar roles do the same when inserted or patrolled well ahead of both the main attack and their troops, e.g. for intelligence, observation and fire direction roles.


PS: Most modern armies are in very hot desert climates at the moment, so instead of showering him in rain you should build him a custom 'hat' with 3 UV lights constantly shining down on him. That would probably be more like it.

Thanks.

You're correct. He needs to experience the full range of climatic conditions, so I'll hose him for a couple of hours twice a day and burn him with hot lights for the rest of the day, then blow fans on his wet body night. ;)

Don't sit by your computer waiting to receive his grateful post. :D



That sounds more like Frogmen to me? I read about the German ones, and the shit they have to be able to do in/under water is just amazing.

Nah, just commandos, who are army and who have to be proficient in all roles, but primarily infiltration, observation, demolition, assassination and so on in small groups ahead of or independently of main forces, so they do all the frogman, small boat, cliff climbing sort of stuff.

RAN clearance divers are the serious frogmen.


I'd probably drown during the first tryouts...

Precisely why I didn't try out for the commandos. Also, ocean water is very cold, and they couldn't guarantee that my missions would be limited to swimming up a heated swimming pool. :D

pdf27
03-30-2009, 10:05 AM
That sounds more like Frogmen to me? I read about the German ones, and the shit they have to be able to do in/under water is just amazing. I'd probably drown during the first tryouts...
The least motivational presentation of my life was the recruitment presentation from a Major with 21/23 SAS I went to a while back. They start off by giving you an SLR full of concrete and a bergen full of rocks and getting you to run up Pen Y Fan. And that's just the first weekend.

It did lead to the funniest military comment I've ever heard. After the briefing was over, we got asked "Any Questions?" After a brief silence, a guy at the back piped up "Sir, I've been watching Ultimate Force. If we join the SAS, do we get to shower with women?". The disbelief on the guy's face was priceless as we all fell about laughing. And funnily enough the guy who asked the question was never seen again.....

herman2
03-30-2009, 12:00 PM
An Army without a RS Rifle Sniper in it, is a very sad sad army, nonethless, indeed....

Dixie Devil
03-30-2009, 03:31 PM
Actually, he did give it a bit of serious thought when he found out about blowing things up, which all well-balanced blokes always enjoy :D, but he wants to be a grunt for some crazy reason (which, admittedly, so did I at his age, but I opted for cavalry as I've never seen the point of walking when you can ride, and you can carry so many more items of comfort on a vehicle.).

Certainly someone isn't right in the head if they don't enjoy blowing stuff up :lol:
My first choice was Airborne Infantry with Armored Cav as a secondary because I had your mentality. If I couldn't jump out of planes I didn't want to walk everywhere when I could ride.



To encourage him towards cavalry, or anything not a grunt, I offered to dig him a weapon pit in the back yard so he could sleep, eat, piss and shit in it for a week while I hosed him and his pit for a couple of hours in every twelve hours and fed him on Spam and crackers with no water apart from what was in the pit to see how he liked being a grunt. But he assured me that the modern army and modern warfare are different.

Modern military or not he better be ready for that if he is going to be a ground pounder. In the real world he may never encounter a situation like that but there is a good chance they will put him through it in training....

Firefly
03-30-2009, 04:34 PM
I suspect that the modern troops in similar roles do the same when inserted or patrolled well ahead of both the main attack and their troops, e.g. for intelligence, observation and fire direction roles.

No they bag it up, stick it in their bergens and bring it home with them. Gross but true.

RS, has your son considered the UK military? I know a lot of Aussies that joined our mob. Plenty of chance for action, adventure and of course ladies love an Aussie accent!

Schuultz
03-30-2009, 05:21 PM
Exactly, Firefly!

The English need their cannonfodder ;)

Rising Sun*
03-30-2009, 09:45 PM
No they bag it up, stick it in their bergens and bring it home with them. Gross but true.

We have to do that here, too, but only when we're walking our dogs. :D (P.S. With our dog's poo, not our poo because we'd get into trouble if we pooed in the street.)


RS, has your son considered the UK military? I know a lot of Aussies that joined our mob. Plenty of chance for action, adventure and of course ladies love an Aussie accent!

He's only interested in Army Reserve (=TA in UK) at the moment. This suits me as I want him to complete his apprenticeship before he carries out one of his current ideas of joining the army or being a cop. At least he'll have a trade to fall back on.

pdf27
03-31-2009, 01:49 AM
Royal Engineers Tradesman? They do take carpenters after all...

Digger
04-02-2009, 02:23 AM
[QUOTE=Rising Sun*;154552]Same here.

Not just the kids.

Nothing looks tackier than some fat sheila in her fifties or sixties with a fresh tattoo, usually on the tit, neck, shoulder or above the bum, where the top of her thong sits on a ridge of wobbly flesh.

One wonders why RS even looks at such things. Must be something missing in his life;)

The easiest way to avoid such sights is to turn and run when you see a fat sheila heading in your direction.

digger

Rising Sun*
04-02-2009, 05:16 AM
[QUOTE=Rising Sun*;154552]Same here.

Not just the kids.

Nothing looks tackier than some fat sheila in her fifties or sixties with a fresh tattoo, usually on the tit, neck, shoulder or above the bum, where the top of her thong sits on a ridge of wobbly flesh.

One wonders why RS even looks at such things. Must be something missing in his life;)

The easiest way to avoid such sights is to turn and run when you see a fat sheila heading in your direction.

digger

Problem is that I see them when they're walking away from me in shopping centres and so on. Often with another generation or two of their charming pedigreed pups in tow.

Digger
04-02-2009, 10:51 PM
[QUOTE=Digger;154774]

Problem is that I see them when they're walking away from me in shopping centres and so on. Often with another generation or two of their charming pedigreed pups in tow.

You'll just have to stop trolling through the gathering places of the bush pigs mate;) It's hard I know, they seem to be everywhere these days.

digger:)

Rising Sun*
04-03-2009, 08:22 AM
So much for my cynicism about the recruiters trying to herd my son into the pioneers.

He's run into a few blokes who wanted to be riflemen in the regular army who also passed all their tests only to be told at the end that there were no vacancies for riflemen.

The Army really must be full. :confused:

flamethrowerguy
04-03-2009, 08:23 AM
The Army really must be full. :confused:

Be glad it's only full...ours is full of it!:D

Schuultz
04-03-2009, 08:32 AM
Be glad it's only full...ours is full of it!:D

Zing...

What's the Australian Army's maximum size, if it has one?

Rising Sun*
04-03-2009, 08:53 AM
What's the Australian Army's maximum size, if it has one?

I dunno, but apparently we've just about reached it.

I think the regular army establishment is somewhere around 25,000, plus about 15,000 reserves, give or take a few thousand in each case.

We feel that this immense force of trained killers is sufficient to cause potential enemies such as Indonesia (population around 200 million versus ours of a little over 20 million) and China (with a slightly larger population that Indonesia's ;) ) to keep their distance. ;) :D

Schuultz
04-03-2009, 01:16 PM
We feel that this immense force of trained killers is sufficient to cause potential enemies such as Indonesia (population around 200 million versus ours of a little over 20 million) and China (with a slightly larger population that Indonesia's ;) ) to keep their distance. ;) :D

Or the government realizes that Australia is ****ed if either of them chooses to invade, and rather saves some money and invests them in Chinese Flags...

Rising Sun*
04-03-2009, 07:14 PM
Or the government realizes that Australia is ****ed if either of them chooses to invade, and rather saves some money...

:mrgreen:

Seriously, we wouldn't have a chance against China but we'd have a good chance against Indonesia. Raw population numbers aren't the whole story.

32Bravo
04-05-2009, 08:13 AM
But would Australia be left alone to deal with Chinese agression?

Rising Sun*
04-05-2009, 08:41 AM
But would Australia be left alone to deal with Chinese agression?

If it suited the interests of the few powers which could challenge China, of course! That's the nature of politics and national self-interest. We'd do the same if the positions were reversed. :(

And none of those powers supply China with raw materials like Australia does, so they're not likely to be under any pressure on that front.

32Bravo
04-05-2009, 09:02 AM
China is one of those countries from which my focus has been distracted for some time. Of course, I'm aware of its economic rise, and that it has a huge standing army. However, what threat could it really pose to Australia, realistically, does it have the resources to mount an attack on Australia? Would Inodonesia side with China against Australia, or would Indonesia side with Australia against China? If your most potential enemy is the neighbour which is economically strongest - how does China figure in such a scenario?

Rising Sun*
04-06-2009, 06:33 AM
China is one of those countries from which my focus has been distracted for some time. Of course, I'm aware of its economic rise, and that it has a huge standing army. However, what threat could it really pose to Australia, realistically, does it have the resources to mount an attack on Australia?

Probably, if it really wanted to. Its navy would cream ours. For example, we have six conventional subs and can't crew all of them while China has eight to ten nuclear subs and fifty to sixty conventional ones. China doesn't yet have an aircraft carrier but is going to build several so it has a problem in defending its ships from our land based aircraft, but if it was determined and had the transport shipping it should be able to land a force much larger than our army (which is barely a division in total numbers and much less on organisation) on a beachhead on plenty of our mostly undefended coastline in the north and west, where the resources it wants are.

Although it has the troops I don't know if it has the merchant shipping to support them, so it might end up in a similar situation to Japan in WWII. But if it has the shipping and it wanted to apply everything it had to a landing in Australia, which assumes that it can take substantial naval forces from other applications against potential threats to China, then it might be able to land and consolidate here. The major obstacle to that is that we can bring air forces to bear on their shipping and landing but, unless China takes, or is given, landing grounds in Indonesia or perhaps some islands to our west or north, it can't bring air forces to bear on us, which puts it at a significant disadvantage.

The real question is: Does China want to attack Australia? And the current answer is certainly: No. China has a long history of being focused on its internal security rather than being an aggressor, although in its very distant past it was aggressively expansionist. The only risk to Australia would be if it denied resources to China, notably minerals upon which China depends for its economic expansion, which in very extreme circumstances might reproduce the circumstances which impelled Japan into WWII. But, at present, that is in the realm of very tenuous speculation.


Would Inodonesia side with China against Australia, or would Indonesia side with Australia against China? If your most potential enemy is the neighbour which is economically strongest - how does China figure in such a scenario?

It depends upon what is in Indonesia's national interest.

If China was going to march through Indonesia to get here as the Japanese did, then Australia and Indonesia would undoubtedly make common cause against China.

If China was going to bypass Indonesia to get here, who knows? That would depend upon Indonesia's assessment of the risk to it of being sandwiched by China to its north and south, in the same way that if China invaded Indonesia with no immediate threat to us we might still want to support Indonesia rather than allow China to gain a foothold in the region from which to threaten our trade routes and potentially our mainland.

Digger
04-13-2009, 04:00 AM
Indonesia's deep mistrust of Communism is in stark contrast to their attitude in the 1960's.

Perhaps if China made an offer too good to refuse, then the Indonesians might join in. I agree our air force could probably severly dent any Indonesian aggression and probably will for many years to come.

China is a different story, but I doubt they will have the qualities needed for such an adventure for at least a decade or two.

digger

pdf27
04-13-2009, 05:10 AM
Well, if your army is full ours is apparently too big!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/5145091/TA-to-lose-10000-troops.html

Rising Sun*
04-13-2009, 06:58 AM
Well, if your army is full ours is apparently too big!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/5145091/TA-to-lose-10000-troops.html

I would have thought the TA serves functions other than just being integrated with the regulars in overseas operations, and not least as a training cadre for rapid expansion and or second line force in time of military crisis.

Firefly
04-14-2009, 05:10 PM
Well, if your army is full ours is apparently too big!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/5145091/TA-to-lose-10000-troops.html


True madness. Every Op Ive been on in the last ten years has had a heavy sprinkling of reserves, not only were they dedicated, at times they were more professional than the regulars around them, bringing huge experience from Civvy life.

Truly feels like a money saving exercise.

Cuts
05-03-2009, 12:25 PM
It looks like it's not just the army that's full, the Department of Immigration have a new logo:


http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7868/fowfaustralia.jpg

Schuultz
05-03-2009, 01:39 PM
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7868/fowfaustralia.jpg

An oppressive 354 square meters per person sure are tight...

Rising Sun*
05-03-2009, 07:09 PM
An oppressive 354 square meters per person sure are tight...

Is that all we have?

We're over full.

Time to start deporting some people. Maybe we should return the favour and transport our criminals to Britain. ;) :D

Cuts
05-03-2009, 08:14 PM
Is that all we have?

We're over full.

Time to start deporting some people. Maybe we should return the favour and transport our criminals to Britain. ;) :D

Start ?

You already have done.
Murdoch.

And that lowlife must be worth a few thousand 'normal' perverted maniacs.

Schuultz
05-03-2009, 08:20 PM
Start ?

You already have done.
Murdoch.

And that lowlife must be worth a few thousand 'normal' perverted maniacs.

I'm afraid they exported that arse all over the world... If you're talking about the Murdoch I think you are.

Rising Sun*
05-03-2009, 08:25 PM
Start ?

You already have done.
Murdoch.

And that lowlife must be worth a few thousand 'normal' perverted maniacs.

We selflessly let you have Murdoch to fill the void left by Robert Maxwell falling off his boat, and this is the thanks we get for exporting one of our finest living national treasures.

Anyway, he's been an American citizen for years now, so blame the Yanks. :D

Rising Sun*
05-03-2009, 08:33 PM
And just in case anyone thinks we're drifting away from WWII, Robert Maxwell had an important connection with it.


Tycoon in war-crimes probe

5:00AM Saturday Mar 11, 2006
By Robert Verkaik

Media tycoon Robert Maxwell was being investigated for war crimes and was to be interviewed by police just before he mysteriously drowned 15 years ago.

Revelations that Maxwell, once a captain in the British Army, knew that he faced a possible life sentence for murdering an unarmed German civilian in 1945 lend support to the theory that he later took his own life.

A Metropolitan Police file shows that weeks before he died detectives had begun questioning members of Maxwell's platoon and were preparing a case for the Crown Prosecution Service.

He would have been told about the inquiry and knew that if found guilty he would be the first Briton to be prosecuted for war crimes.

The War Crimes Act 1991 was enacted just six months before Maxwell's body was found floating in the Atlantic on November 5, 1991 after he had been holidaying on his luxury yacht the Lady Ghislane. No one has been able to explain how he died.

But the police file shows that by that time officers had already been able to establish the location in Germany where Maxwell was alleged to have killed an unarmed German civilian in cold blood.

The shooting on April 3, 1945 was first disclosed by Maxwell's authorised biographer Joe Haines in 1988.

Maxwell is quoted in the book as describing how he tried to capture a German town by threatening the population with a mortar bombardment, a tactic that had proved successful on a nearby village hours earlier.

In a letter to his wife, published in the book, Maxwell writes: " ... so I sent one of the Germans to go and fetch the mayor of the town. In half an hour's time he turned up and I told him that he had to go to tell the Germans to surrender and hang the white flag otherwise the town will be destroyed. One hour later he came back saying that the soldiers will surrender and the white flag was put up so we marched off, but as soon as we marched off a German tank opened fire on us. Luckily he missed so I shot the mayor and withdrew."

The police file says: "The reported circumstances of the shooting gave rise to an allegation of war crimes. To some extent, the reporting of the shooting incident were confirmed by Mr Maxwell in an interview he gave in 1988 to the journalist Brian Walden."

But the police could do nothing until Parliament had enacted the war crimes legislation, which had been introduced to prosecute Nazi war criminals living in Britain.

It was only when a member of the public made a complaint under the new legislation that an official investigation could begin. Two officers from the police's historic war crimes unit began tracing members of Maxwell's platoon but had been unable to find a witness to the alleged shooting of the mayor.

On November 5, 1991, at the age of 68, Maxwell is presumed to have fallen overboard from the Lady Ghislane, which was cruising off the Canary Islands, and his body was subsequently found floating in the Atlantic Ocean. The official verdict was accidental drowning, though many people, including members of his own family, believe he took his own life.

In was only after his death that it emerged that he had plundered the Mirror Group pensions' funds to bail out his ailing media empire.

Shortly after his bodied was buried in Jerusalem the police passed the conclusions of their investigation to the Crown Prosecution Service.

The police file says that "it was determined that the case could be progressed no further, and it was closed in March 1991."

The file also shows that, although a lot of work had gone into the case, the police had not been able to find a reliable witness to corroborate the account in the Haines biography. They had also raised concerns about having to rely on the quotes attributed to Maxwell in the book. But Maxwell would not have known this and may have felt that the net was closing in.

Maxwell was immensely proud of his war record. He had fought bravely with the British Army from the beaches of Normandy to the bombed-out buildings of Berlin. In January 1945 his courageous actions won him a Military Cross, which was awarded to him by Field Marshal Sir Bernard Montgomery.

But his hatred for the German people was borne out of his own bitter experiences. Later he was reported to have said that the two things he hated most were Germans and taxes.

By 1991 he had become very ill, with only one properly functioning lung and a serious heart condition. He must have known he was living on borrowed time and the prospect of spending his remaining life in prison for war crimes may have been too much for him to bear.

The only Briton to be convicted for war crimes in Britain was Anthony Sawoniuk, who was given two life sentences for the murder of 18 Jewish men and women in Eastern Europe during World War II. He died in prison last year aged 84.

- INDEPENDENT http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10372096

Nickdfresh
05-03-2009, 09:12 PM
We selflessly let you have Murdoch to fill the void left by Robert Maxwell falling off his boat, and this is the thanks we get for exporting one of our finest living national treasures.

Anyway, he's been an American citizen for years now, so blame the Yanks. :D


Blame us? We're victims of the swine!

Schuultz
05-03-2009, 09:39 PM
Blame us? We're victims of the swine!

Well, somebody in your immigration office obviously ****ed up... ;)

Rising Sun*
05-04-2009, 05:42 AM
Well, somebody in your immigration office obviously ****ed up... ;)

Maybe, but our emigration office got it just right. :D

Digger
05-04-2009, 07:19 AM
Maybe, but our emigration office got it just right. :D

That would be a first;)

digger

Rising Sun*
05-04-2009, 07:40 AM
That would be a first;)

digger

It's a start. ;) :D

Schuultz
05-04-2009, 09:34 AM
But isn't that quite a while ago by now?

Rising Sun*
05-05-2009, 09:37 AM
But isn't that quite a while ago by now?

If you're talking about our migration, in or out, bureaucrats getting anything right then, yes, it is a very, very long time ago.

Iron Yeoman
05-05-2009, 12:17 PM
Well, if your army is full ours is apparently too big!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/5145091/TA-to-lose-10000-troops.html

Its a bloody disgrace, especially the shoddy cut of 3 regiments of scalies. They only found out the afternoon before their drill night! I'm sure it makes perfect sense to some retard government minister to cut three regiments when TA soldiers are in high demand and not to give them advance warning, treat them with a bit of respect. :evil:

The military covenant isn't broken, its been rogered senseless smashed into several pieces and then burned. I passed angry days ago i'm now onto new levels of rage.:evil::evil::evil::evil: