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Ivaylo
02-03-2009, 10:43 AM
I am not good in german language so could anyone help me with translating and saying the exact meaning of Panzerabwehrzug ? Panzer wagon , tank or what ?
I ask because a few days ago i read about the Emil Dur a man who fought in Hitlerjugend in Panzerabwehrzug/4. Kompanie/I. Batallion/SS-Panzergrenadierregiment 26 as gun commander and if someone could post more photos about him it will be appreciate , thanks in advance :)

What i more know about him is
Date of Birth:
11. June 1920

Decorations:
Iron Cross II: 23. June 1944
Iron Cross I: 24. June 1944
Knight's Cross: 23. August 1944
Honor Roll Clasp: 15. September 1944

Date of Death:
27. June 1944

Source http://home.att.net/~SSPzHJ/EmilDurr.html

Procyon
02-03-2009, 11:06 AM
Panzer = tank
abwehr = defense
zug = train

pdf27
02-03-2009, 11:40 AM
Panzer is more armour than tank - for instance the Pocket Battleships would be referred to as a Panzerschiff...

flamethrowerguy
02-03-2009, 11:51 AM
Panzer = tank
abwehr = defense
zug = train

If I'm allowed to correct the boss:o...
In general linguistic usage "Zug" means train, right. In military parlance however it means "Platoon".
So the soldier Ivaylo longs for info about was part of the "Anti tank Platoon" of his company.

P.S. Will see for photos later.

Ivaylo
02-03-2009, 07:20 PM
If I'm allowed to correct the boss:o...
In general linguistic usage "Zug" means train, right. In military parlance however it means "Platoon".
So the soldier Ivaylo longs for info about was part of the "Anti tank Platoon" of his company.

P.S. Will see for photos later.

:shock: LoL i didn't knew i was "soldier " :D Anyway thank for the help with the german language looking forward for the photos :)

Procyon
02-04-2009, 01:16 AM
Yes, 'armour' would be more correct.

flamethrowerguy
02-04-2009, 11:27 AM
Alas, there are no more known photos of Emil Dürr but the one in the link. This should be because Dürr was "just" a Sergeant and the Knight's Cross was awarded to him posthumously.

tankgeezer
02-04-2009, 12:33 PM
Panzer is more armour than tank - for instance the Pocket Battleships would be referred to as a Panzerschiff...
My German is limited, but the old German soldiers told me that the generic word for armor itself, is Panzar. The word used for describing armored fighting equipments (tanks, ships all of that,) is Panzer.German technical words are confusing to me, so some clarification by the German speakers among us might be helpful.

flamethrowerguy
02-04-2009, 02:30 PM
"Panzer" means both tank and armour. And even a turtle's shell is called "Panzer". The adjective "armoured" means "gepanzert".

Since it was not mentioned yet: the armoured train ("Panzerzug")

3177

Ivaylo
02-05-2009, 06:30 AM
Alas, there are no more known photos of Emil Dürr but the one in the link. This should be because Dürr was "just" a Sergeant and the Knight's Cross was awarded to him posthumously.

Yep he was killed from flamethrower tank while he was trying to neutralize it , that's why the Knight Cross was posthumously awarded to him and the bravery he showed , the whole story can be read in the link i put . Thanks for the photo you put flamethrowerguy it put much more light to what is the meaning of the word , anyway i still don't get why that guy was fighting against the tank with panzerfaust while actually it's said he was serving on that panzerabwehrzug .... but anyway thanks :)

Schuultz
02-05-2009, 09:20 AM
Yeah, FTG is right. A Panzerzug could be interpreted as both, an armoured train, or a train platoon.

But Panzerabwehrzug would be an 'Anti-Tank Platoon'.
I don't think there were any armoured trains designed specifically for the defense against tanks?

And that he was killed by a flamethrower-tank while trying to take it out is another sign that he wasn't in an armoured train while doing so.;)

And as for the problem with the many meanings of 'Panzer', generally speaking I would try to avoid ever translating it as 'tank', and would rather use the term Armo(u)r. That does its versatility a bit more justice.

And if I'm not mistaken, don't the English-speaking militaries refer to their tanks as 'Heavy Armo(u)r', too?

flamethrowerguy
02-05-2009, 09:22 AM
Man, you just re-confused anybody.:shock:

Schuultz
02-05-2009, 09:32 AM
Nah, you underestimate them. I'm positive I only confused you ;)

Ivaylo
02-05-2009, 05:18 PM
Yeah, FTG is right. A Panzerzug could be interpreted as both, an armoured train, or a train platoon.

But Panzerabwehrzug would be an 'Anti-Tank Platoon'.
I don't think there were any armoured trains designed specifically for the defense against tanks?

And that he was killed by a flamethrower-tank while trying to take it out is another sign that he wasn't in an armoured train while doing so.;)

And as for the problem with the many meanings of 'Panzer', generally speaking I would try to avoid ever translating it as 'tank', and would rather use the term Armo(u)r. That does its versatility a bit more justice.

And if I'm not mistaken, don't the English-speaking militaries refer to their tanks as 'Heavy Armo(u)r', too?

Well my logic was wasn't that job of panzergrenadier troops with anti tank weapons not a job of train personal ... ;)

Schuultz
02-05-2009, 05:27 PM
Of course it is. But according to your own post he was a member of the Panzergrenadierregiment 26. So he only did his job ;).

He was a member of an Anti-Tank platoon within the Panzergrenadier-regiment.