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Joel109
02-03-2009, 06:39 AM
Hello. I'm new to this site and I'm not sure if this is the appropriate forum for my story, but here goes anyways. I am 34 years old and have been a big WW2 history buff since high school. I am interested in all aspects of the war and find it very facinating. I am most interested in the Nazi history of WW2, but please believe me when I say that I have no sympathy nor do I support Nazism in any way. Anyways, My grandpa was in the U.S. Navy during the war and was stationed in Hawaii, although it was after December 7th, 1941. As far as I know, he did not see any action. A few years before he died, we got to talking about the war and he told me something that I had not known before. His brother (my great uncle) was a P-47 Thunderbolt pilot with the 365th fighter squadron. Anyways, my great uncle was on a mission over France in July of 1944 when he was jumped by about 50 ME-109's and FW-190's. He did not return to his base that day. I don't know if it was unusual to be jumped by that many enemy fighters in mid-1944, but my grandpa gave me a copy of the report that was filed when my great uncle Jay did not return from his mission, and the report clearly states 50 enemy fighters. Anyways, a French farmer saw my great uncles plane falling toward the ground and quickly ran out to the aircraft to see if my great uncle was still alive before the Germans got to him. He was dead before he hit the ground. My grandpa and this French farmer were in contact with each other until shortly before my grandpa died in 2005. The guy in France sent my grandpa photos and pieces on the aircraft through the years. The local community where my great uncle was shot down even made a hand painted dinner plate with his airplane, etc painted in great detail. I guess they have alot of respect for my great uncle. My great uncle is buried at Normandy. I forget what squadron shot down my great uncle, but my grandfather told me that he thinks he was able to figure out the name of the German pilot who shot my great uncle down. There is a book out titled "The 365th Fighter Squadron in World War II" by Kent Miller. In the book, my great uncle is mentioned as well as the squadron that shot him down. Anyways, I thought I would share this story about my great uncle, a man I never knew, but am extremely proud of and proud to share his name. I did some research on the internet and this is what I came up with. His ID was 0-674346. He was a First Lieutenant with the U.S. Army Air Forces, 365th Fighter Squadron, 358th Fighter Group. He died on July 14th, 1944 and is buried at the Normandy American cemetery in Colleville-sur-Mer, France. His grave location is Plot B, Row 13, Grave 13. Some of his awards were the Air Medal with 9 Oak Leak Clusters and the Purple Heart. He flew the P-47 Thunderbolt in 25 missions with 50 sorties.

Schuultz
02-03-2009, 04:32 PM
Interesting story. So what squadron attacked your great-uncle?

It is most unusual that he would get jumped by so many planes, and why was he alone, anyway?

PS: Try to add spaces between the paragraphs, would reduce the wall of text and make it easier to read...

Nickdfresh
02-03-2009, 04:48 PM
Fifty Luftwaffe planes does seem to be a bit extraordinary...

Can you scan the official report?

RifleMan20
02-03-2009, 06:29 PM
A very interesting stories and as nick said, 50 planes sounds a little to extreme, please do scan it, it would be nice to see.

flamethrowerguy
02-03-2009, 11:45 PM
This -for German late-war measures- huge number of aircrafts would have been more common above German soil (so called "Reichsverteidigung", imperial defense), by mid 1944 in France quite unusual though. The high number along with the fact that different types of planes were involved (you mentioned Me-109 and FW-190) leads to the assumption that it had been a major action of different units.
You should indeed post the official report.

Rising Sun*
02-04-2009, 06:54 AM
Joel 109

50 fighters would be unlikely to attack a single enemy fighter. There isn't enough room in the sky. Three or four of them would normally be more than enough to detach and deal with a single fighter.

It seems more likely that your great uncle was involved in an action with other Allied planes if 50 German fighters were attacking.

Schuultz
02-04-2009, 07:02 AM
The thing that really bothers me, though, is that he seems to have been alone. That doesn't really make any sense, does it?

Rising Sun*
02-04-2009, 08:01 AM
The thing that really bothers me, though, is that he seems to have been alone. That doesn't really make any sense, does it?

In July 1944, or at any time in the war, it's quite possible that a single Allied (or Axis) plane could become detached from its unit and become prey to enemy fighters.

It wasn't unusual for a plane or several, depending upon the size of the original unit entering battle, to become detached and have to make its own way home.

There were also flights by Allied fighters and fighter / bombers over France in 1944, before and after D Day, seeking 'targets of opportunity' which could easily lead to a single Allied plane being a target for German planes.

Schuultz
02-04-2009, 08:33 AM
That sounds like a good explanation. But wasn't the Thunderbolt faster than the ME109 and FW190?
ME190: 640km/h
FW109: 656km/h
P-47: 697km/h

If I saw 50 enemies I would definitely try to fly away.

That is, if I could and they weren't in my path...

Uyraell
02-06-2009, 07:08 PM
P47 faster in the dive, due to great weight, yes. Able to dogfight as easily, no. Turning radius was about 20% wider, and most P47s were speed limited by the drag of the bomb and droptank shackles, which would have brought them within the speed range of the FW190s and Me.109s in any case. Full throttle climb was very comparable to the German fighters.

As to 50 German fighters... one thought I had was that perhaps the report identified some of the fighters as belonging to one of the "50" series JagdGeschwaders, such as Jg54, Jg52, Jg53. Were that the case, the number "50" might then be read as the amount of German aircraft present, instead of the possible unit ID's.

Speculation, I know, but then again, in the air war many odd things did happen, just as on the ground and at sea.

Regards, Uyraell.

Joel109
03-29-2009, 04:56 AM
Interesting story. So what squadron attacked your great-uncle?

It is most unusual that he would get jumped by so many planes, and why was he alone, anyway?

PS: Try to add spaces between the paragraphs, would reduce the wall of text and make it easier to read... JG26 and he was not alone. There were three others.

Joel109
03-29-2009, 05:12 AM
Fifty Luftwaffe planes does seem to be a bit extraordinary...

Can you scan the official report? I have made scans of the MACR and I have tons of photos, newspaper clippings, etc to back up my story, but whenever I try to post a picture on this forum, I get a message telling me that the picture is too big. I don't have any idea how to make the scans, pictures, etc any smaller. Can anyone help?

Joel109
03-29-2009, 05:19 AM
It was one of these 5 pilots who shot down my great uncle on 14 July 1944.

Date Pilot Unit Enemy A/C claimed Location Time Reference

14.07.44 Ltn. Heinz Kemethmüller 4./JG 26 P-47 Ł AC: 1.000-1.200 m. [St. André-de-l'Eure] 14.36 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.166
14.07.44 Maj. Karl Borris Stab I./JG 26 P-47 Ł 04 Ost N/AC-1: 1.400 m. [Évreux] 14.36 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.70
14.07.44 Oblt. Hans Hartigs 4./JG 26 P-47 Ł 04 Ost N/AC: 1.000 m. [St. André-de-l'Eure] 14.37 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.167
14.07.44 Ltn. Joachim Günther 3./JG 26 P-47 Ł 04 Ost N/AC: 1.000 m. [St. André-de-l'Eure] 14.38 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.153
14.07.44 Ltn. Joachim Günther 3./JG 26 P-47 Ł 04 Ost N/AC at 400 m. [St. André-de-l'Eure] 14.40 Film C. 2027/II VNE: ASM
14.07.44 Uffz. Haun 9./JG 26 P-47 Ł AB-69 at 1.100 m. [Verneuil] 14.57 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr. -

Joel109
03-29-2009, 05:23 AM
Last week I received 9 P-47 parts from France that were excavated from my great uncles crash site in 1999. I have pics of the parts, but again, they are too big to post. If anyone can tell me how to shink my pics so I can actually post them on this forum, I would appreciate it very much.

Joel109
03-29-2009, 05:27 AM
Here is a transcript of a newspaper article that was released in my great uncles hometown in 2000. I would post a picture of the actual newspaper clipping, but again, it is too big.

Anacortes native Jay V. "Herky" Thomson, a pilot who was killed in a dogfight over France during World War II, was honored at a ceremony Sept. 9 at the village of Saint-Denis du Behelan, France, near the site where his plane crashed.

"I sure wish I could've gone,” said Thomson’s brother, Bert, who is recovering from a hospitalization.

"All of my family but me is over there."

A plaque honoring Thomson, who was a first lieutenant, is placed at the village's soldier’s monument. Dignitaries from Paris, including U.S. Air Force representatives, were scheduled to attend, his brother said.

The identification of Thomson's crash site and the ceremony were the work of the Forced Landing Association (or Association Pour L'Histoire et le Souvenir des Pilotes et Hommes D'Equipages Allies). Members of this group, many of whom were born after the war, research allied plane crash sites, then excavate and document them.

Thomson, who still lives in Anacortes, said his older brothers Jay and Chester enlisted in the Army after Pearl Harbor.

"That's the first thing they did," he said. "They both wanted to be pilots. One made it and one didn't."

Bert himself graduated from Anacortes High School in 1942, then enlisted in the Navy on Nov.11 of that year. He spent much of the war stationed in Honolulu.

Jay was attached to the 365th Fighter Squadron of the 358th Fighter Group, in the Army Air Force, where he flew a P-47 Thunderbolt fighter/bomber, Thomson said. His outfit was stationed at High Halden Air Force Base near Kent, England.

On July 14th, 1944, several squads went out to bomb a railroad tunnel near Neubourg. A contemporary report said the four planes in 1LT Thomson's squad were swarmed by more than 50 German planes over Brezolles, west of Dreux. Thomson's plane was hit by an ME109 and an FW190, according to the report. He was listed as missing.

Thomson said he always checked VFW magazines for information about his brother’s outfit. One recent edition provided him with a contact, who gave him the addresses of men who were likely to have known Jay.

"I wrote to nine of them," he said. "I heard back from all but one, and he had died."
One of the pilots referred him to a friend in England, who lived near the air force base. This friend, in turn, put him in touch with Jean-Luc Gruson of the Forced Landing Association, who was researching several planes that had been shot down on the same day. Gruson pinpointed which was which through excavated artifacts, such as a temperature gauge. Gruson wrote to Thomson and coordinated the ceremony so the family could attend.

Although he was unable to join his family in France, he and his son Scott went to Causland Memorial Park Saturday to honor Jay with a prayer.

"It was pretty touching to think they were over in France doing the same thing," he said.

Schuultz
03-29-2009, 09:37 AM
Last week I received 9 P-47 parts from France that were excavated from my great uncles crash site in 1999. I have pics of the parts, but again, they are too big to post. If anyone can tell me how to shink my pics so I can actually post them on this forum, I would appreciate it very much.

Use a third party site, such as photobucket.com to upload the image. Then just copy the image code and you should be set.

Alternatively, you can just try to downscale the images using a program such as Microsoft Digital Image Standard or Photoshop or whatever.

Joel109
03-30-2009, 01:47 AM
The Missing Air Crew Report is in PDF format. I tried to copy them to photobucket, but it won't accept PDF. How can I shrink PDF?

Joel109
03-30-2009, 03:35 AM
Click on this link for the pics.

http://warrelics.eu/forum/german-third-reich-history-research/4937-new-here-i-have-story-you.html


Many of you said that my original story of my great uncle and three others in his squadron being jumped by more than 50 German fighters on 14 July 1944 was unlikely, but by clicking on the above link, you will see that my story is true.

Rising Sun*
03-30-2009, 05:52 AM
I have made scans of the MACR and I have tons of photos, newspaper clippings, etc to back up my story, but whenever I try to post a picture on this forum, I get a message telling me that the picture is too big. I don't have any idea how to make the scans, pictures, etc any smaller. Can anyone help?

I can't see why you're having trouble uploading your images to this forum. I've downloaded one of your images from the War Relics forum and uploaded it to Imageshack and it uploads fine to this forum.

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7421/joela.jpg

Rising Sun*
03-30-2009, 08:53 AM
Click on this link for the pics.

http://warrelics.eu/forum/german-third-reich-history-research/4937-new-here-i-have-story-you.html


Many of you said that my original story of my great uncle and three others in his squadron being jumped by more than 50 German fighters on 14 July 1944 was unlikely, but by clicking on the above link, you will see that my story is true.

I am most impressed by the 'truth' demonstrated by your post in the link at #21 as 'evidence' about your great uncle.


I have a sort of neat update to my original story. Last weekend I received an e-mail from a gentleman by the name of Lewis T. Easterling from North Carolina. He told me that he was in the same squadron as my great uncle in 1944. He told me that he never knew my great uncle, but that the squadron had many losses that year. My great uncle was shot down and killed in July, 1944 and Lewis T. Easterling was shot down in December of the same year, but survived.

He flew his 68th sortie on December 17 near Mannheim, Germany, attacking railway marshaling yards containing supplies destined for the "Bulge" at Bastogne. While strafing, an explosion engulfed his plane inflicting extensive damage. He headed his flaming plane toward home receiving heavy ground fire. When the propeller stopped turning he attempted to bailout, but became pinned to the side of the fuselage. Breaking free, he collided with the tail finally managing to open his chute at approx. 800 ft.

He continued to receive automatic rifle and 20 mm fire until landing. Multiple injuries were sustained, including two broken legs and a gun shot wound. He was in immediate danger from the civilians but was rescued by S.S. Troops who transported him to a small village where a demonstration and mock execution took place.

Most of his time as a POW was spent in a room with 15 or 20 other wounded prisoners, none of whom spoke English. He returned to the U.S. in June, 1945 and received medical treatment until his discharge from Walter Reed Hospital in November 1947. He was awarded the Purple Heart, six Air Medals, the E.T.O. ribbon with three Battle Stars. My bold

I suppose Lewis is so old now that he can't remember what actually happened to him and instead just lifted his own history from the P47 Pilots' Association website and emailed it to you.


Easterling flew his 68th sortie on December 17 near Mannheim, Germany, attacking railway marshaling yards containing supplies destined for the "Bulge" at Bastogne. While strafing, an explosion engulfed his plane inflicting extensive damage. He headed his flaming plane toward home receiving heavy ground fire. When the propeller stopped turning he attempted to bailout, but became pinned to the side of the fuselage. Breaking free, he collided with the tail finally managing to open his chute at approx. 800 ft.

He continued to receive automatic rifle and 20 mm fire until landing. Multiple injuries were sustained, including two broken legs and a gun shot wound. He was in immediate danger from the civilians but was rescued by S.S. Troops who transported him to a small village where a demonstration and mock execution took place.

Most of his time as P-O-W. was spent in a room with 15 or 20 other wounded prisoners, none of whom spoke English. He returned to the U.S. in June, 1945 and received medical treatment until his discharge from Walter Reed Hospital in November 1947. He was awarded the Purple Heart, six Air Medals, the E.T.O. ribbon with three Battle Stars. http://www.p47pilots.com/P47-Pilots.cfm?c=incP47BiographyHome.cfm&vm=BIO&pilotid=139&p=Lewis%20T.%20Easterling

Is any more of your material lifted from the internet?

We'll see.

Joel109
03-30-2009, 11:15 AM
What is your problem Rising Sun?!?!?!?!?!? I am simply trying to share the story of my great uncle and his squadron and all you do is throw negativity my way. If you can't say anything even remotely nice, then keep all of your hate to yourself. Thank you.

herman2
03-30-2009, 11:58 AM
RS is just a factual sort of guy and doesn't hate you. His quest for accuracy and description in source info is his way of ensuring that the wrong info doesn't get out there. Because your sorta new, I guess you have to earn your stripes before you can dance. Love your post though, I enjoyed reading it.

Rising Sun*
03-30-2009, 03:52 PM
What is your problem Rising Sun?!?!?!?!?!? I am simply trying to share the story of my great uncle and his squadron and all you do is throw negativity my way. If you can't say anything even remotely nice, then keep all of your hate to yourself. Thank you.

My problem with you, so far, is that you're lifting stuff from the internet and presenting it as your own or someone else's work. That doesn't help your credibility.

And do be a dear and show all of us where I have said anything that any remotely rational person could perceive as evidence of hate on my part.

Firefly
03-30-2009, 04:26 PM
What is your problem Rising Sun?!?!?!?!?!? I am simply trying to share the story of my great uncle and his squadron and all you do is throw negativity my way. If you can't say anything even remotely nice, then keep all of your hate to yourself. Thank you.

17 posts in and you choose to insult a mod here. Im sorry but thats just not acceptable to me.

Here is my problem with this story. You dont back it up with any evidence at all. Whats your grandads name? What unit did he fly for. 25 missions and 50 sorties? plain wrong, a mission is a sortie, or rather can be. A mission can be flown by 12 aircraft, that would be 1 mission for 12 sorties.

So did your Grandad fly 25 missions?

Lastly, while not totally unknown, by the Normandy campaign the germans would be hard pushed to send up 50 aircraft and would be very lucky indeed to bypass the hundreds of Allied fighters that were around the area day after day.

So please post your proof by all means, but also please refrain from insulting the Mods, or indeed anyone else here becuase they feel that you are being somewhat economical with your story.

Cheers

FF

Joel109
03-31-2009, 12:56 AM
I'm done with this website. I'll move on to a WW2 site that does not have such hateful and disrespectful members.

Schuultz
03-31-2009, 07:27 AM
You mean one that doesn't question your obscure and so far unsupported claims?

Rising Sun*
03-31-2009, 07:53 AM
You mean one that doesn't question your obscure and so far unsupported claims?

Bloody Germans! You're all so coldly logical. :D

Can't your feel the man's pain. ;)

Schuultz
03-31-2009, 08:12 AM
Colonial wimps...

You should know better than adopting the English habit of talking around the actual matter... ;)

Rising Sun*
03-31-2009, 08:16 AM
I'm done with this website. I'll move on to a WW2 site that does not have such hateful and disrespectful members.

Mea culpa. Mea culpa. Mea culpa.

I apologise for viciously wounding Joel and driving him away with my consistently hateful and disrespectful assaults upon him, such as in my posts #6, 8 and 19 above. I missed it when I wrote them but now, informed by Joel’s pain as the innocent victim of my vile words, I can see the hate and disrespect dripping from them. I am actually astonished that one of the other mods did not delete my offending posts for breaking just about every rule on this board.

It’s obviously a deep flaw in my character that not only have I hurt Joel by my poison pen but that I also view Joel as a thin-skinned, self-pitying, borderline paranoid, plagiarising twat who tries to present himself as a persecuted victim when he’s really just running away to avoid answering awkward questions. So I must apologise for thinking ill of him in that respect.

Joel was kind enough to send me a parting PM pointing out the flaws in my hate and rage filled personality. I’d respond to it if he hadn’t slunk off in a girly sulk, but there’s no point responding to someone who isn’t here because he’s gone to forums with members who won't challenge problems with his posts, unlike the hate filled and disrespectful bastards on this forum. However, the main reason I can’t respond to Joel's last PM is that I couldn’t stop laughing long enough to write. So I must also apologise for laughing at Joel’s unsolicited PMs, because he obviously takes them very seriously.

I think that takes care of all the apologies Joel would like me to make. What a pity he's not around to accept them graciously as part of a mutual healing process.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Rising Sun*
03-31-2009, 08:19 AM
You should know better than adopting the English habit of talking around the actual matter... ;)

Well, I was trying to be clear and direct. ;)

As I hope I have managed to be in my abject apology to Joel. ;) :D

Nickdfresh
03-31-2009, 08:21 AM
I'm done with this website. I'll move on to a WW2 site that does not have such hateful and disrespectful members.

Good bye! Come back with a better troll next time...

Schuultz
03-31-2009, 08:26 AM
Wow, this thread seems to be getting more 'Goodbye' posts than actual posts while people still cared.

Amazing :D

PS: I know I'm part of the problem.

herman2
03-31-2009, 08:55 AM
Wow, this thread seems to be getting more 'Goodbye' posts than actual posts while people still cared.

Amazing :D

PS: I know I'm part of the problem.

I miss Joel already...Fairwell my young lad. I sorta liked him. I'm still getting over Aly J's absence...so lonely.....:army:

Schuultz
03-31-2009, 08:58 AM
I miss Joel already...Fairwell my young lad. I sorta liked him. I'm still getting over Aly J's absence...so lonely.....:army:

I'm sure that if you asked nicely, and maybe brought some presents, RS* and Nickdfresh would be more than happy to help you over your... loneliness :mrgreen:

Rising Sun*
03-31-2009, 09:15 AM
I miss Joel already...Fairwell my young lad. I sorta liked him. I'm still getting over Aly J's absence...so lonely.....:army:

And there, my dear Herman, are points of screaming similarity with your long lost friend. Who usually makes her next appearance a few weeks after being banned in her last incarnation, which timing was about right for Joel's appearance.

Except that after some rather detailed investigation I am fairly sure that there is no connection between Joel and aly, apart from what might be yet another intrusion into this forum by a poster of a particular type in the aly j mould (possibly trying to dock with the mother ship, which may be you ;) :mrgreen: ).

Indeed, there is probably a genuine element to the Joel109 posts here which are part of an internet search on several forums for information about the missing great uncle.

The only problem is that the poster on this forum exhibited features and conduct which were not consistent with posts by the searcher elsewhere. Whether that is due to the poster being an imposter or meeting a more challenging membership here will never be known as he, or she, slunk off when challenged. Which suggests that it wasn't the genuine Joel109 but perhaps someone who appropriated that identity from plenty of material on the internet. As he, or she, presented misappropriated internet material here and on at least one other forum. So nobody can work out where truth, if any, starts and bullshit starts.

Rising Sun*
03-31-2009, 09:23 AM
I'm sure that if you asked nicely, and maybe brought some presents, RS* and Nickdfresh would be more than happy to help you over your... loneliness :mrgreen:

Where did you get that crazy idea?

Herman is lonely for a very good reason, based mainly on Darwinian selection and I (and I expect Nick) ain't gonna interfere with the immutable laws of nature. ;) :D

If Herman wants to alleviate his loneliness he would be better off spending his money on a blow up love doll. If he hasn't already. :D

herman2
03-31-2009, 10:01 AM
Look,
Leave Herman alone..he aint hurting anyone...now I have a story for you...here it is....(my constructive contribution for today)

Chicago O’Hare Airport was named after Butch O’Hare who was a WW-2 pilot who died in action. Butch O’Hare was awarded the Medal of Honour.
Butch O’Hare’s father was a lawyer for the notorious Al Capone and was known as Fast Eddie.
It is quite interesting to see how society can condemn one person for his illegal notoriety and yet tribute and honour another person (the son) for his greatness!
I found the history of re-naming Chicago’s airport to O’Hare Airport quite interesting.

Uyraell
03-31-2009, 04:47 PM
"... Darwinian selection..."

Has Sasquatch-ette already left Toronto, RS?
:shock: :D :mrgreen:

Regards, Uyraell.

Cpt_Prahl
05-15-2009, 10:41 AM
I got a question for you guys I have made a few post told some of my Grandfathers story and shared a couple of his Photos, Said a few things had an opinion or 2.

Outside of trolling the net for informationand reading books how many of you have met any of the Veterans you write about or have done any real research IE going to the archives and getting the source?

Here is an Example Stephen Ambrose stated in his book D-Day that on Omaha beach no heavy mortars or artillery were used on D-Day this statement is False why because my Grandfather had his 4, 81mm mortars set up at the rear CP of 2nd Bat and all 4 were firing before 10 am on the 6th of June an 81mm Mortar is light artillery he lost one Mortar team on D-Day, one man in the minefield and 2 to a direct hit while manning the mortar. The compnay had 26 men wounded and 8 MIA that 8 MIA is My Grandfather's missing squad plus him He was the Forward Observer and was in Colleville with , Spalding, Dawson and Shelby and many others, yet no historical offical or unoffical states this,Minus the Pouge interview with spalding but he is misspelled Shelby's Name Shelly.
you can read the History report here.

Also 81st chemical Mortar were set up but didnt fire a shot, as they werent neede because the 81's were doing the Job and so was the navy.

So am I wrong? was Stephen Ambrose wrong?

http://www.americandday.org/Virtual%20Museum/Documents/Omaha%20Beach%20-%201st%20Infantry%20Division%20-%2007.htm

Make Note several other Historians and a Museum director and I have been carefully reconstructing the Battle for Colleville for 7 years we have dicovered flaw after flaw and will try like hell to get it corrected. The only mention of H company on D-Day is a mention about Joseph P Parks and peter Cavelerie who recived the DSC for his actions on D-Day. And a short blip about H co receving heavy causualties while going up easy red trail. I wouldnt call 3 KIA and 26 wounded high causalties. Considering evey other company in the Batalion was cut to less than half strength with F co being completely whiped out exept 13 men of 256.

Really Rising sun M8 you shouldnt be so quick to suspect peoples stories to be BS you can try to pull that on me and I will prove you wrong time and time again as I have the reports photos and stories from Grandfather and his men, So much of this is history will be lost and so much of it has yet to be discovered. Also I like to learn and If I am wrong and can be proven wrong am willing to eat shit, but noone is perfect especially not historians as they are the last to deal with the paper moster of S-3 and the like.

Yes I have terrible grammar and spelling dont remind me.

Schuultz
05-15-2009, 12:17 PM
Outside of trolling the net for informationand reading books how many of you have met any of the Veterans you write about or have done any real research IE going to the archives and getting the source?

Frankly, most of my information comes from Books, the Internet and Lectures.

I have lucky enough to have one of my classmates come in to our history class and retell his time in the Wehrmacht, which spanned from Guard duty at Gibraltar to fighting at the Eastern Front. Sadly, that's been at least 4 years, and I've forgotten many of the details, especially most of the locations.

I have one living and two deceased Grand-uncles, all three of which were Paratroopers in the German Army during WW2, the still living one even took part in the invasion of Crete.

Sadly, I haven't seen him in the last 3 years, which was pretty much the time when I started to get really interested in history. I'm trying to get to visit Germany again, hopefully by next year, so once I've been there and done that, I'll try to retell his story.

Until then, I'm afraid I'll be one of the people who can mainly only refer to books, etc.

herman2
05-15-2009, 01:30 PM
Most of my info comes from learning on this forum and listening to my dad brag about the days when Germany use to be a Great Super Power. I wish I had more time to read books but..why should I, when Shuultz can read them for me and I learn from what he posts!:):)

Cpt_Prahl
05-15-2009, 01:31 PM
I dig it and understand, my best man and first sargent his grandparents were both in the SS and he is now a BRO man god bless his soul.

My biggest advice to you is to go to Germany as soon as possible and record detail for detail their histories and record and photograph any artifacts they have this history is very important as we are leaning to a repetr of the 40's again here pretty quick if as a species we don pull our collective head out of our collective ***!!!!!!!!!!

Cpt_Prahl
05-15-2009, 01:35 PM
hahahah as much as this site annoys the shit out of me somtimes as a place to share information and the like you guys can be funny as hell,

I am a serious reseacher, the hours if not years of my life that have been dedicatd to the reconstruction of my Grandfathers unit's history has been long and hard I will probably be finished with this project for the 75th anniversery as my research has been limited up until the freedom of information act opened up the archives for personal information on non family members soldiers information for private people....


wish me luck people

if anyone is in Normandy this year My reenactment group BIG RED ONE Sweden will be camping at the Big Red One Museum in Colleville sur mer, stop by!

Schuultz
05-15-2009, 01:45 PM
Yeah, well, I was planning to visit my Grandpa (and through that, my Grand-Uncle) this year, but paperwork got in my way...

Here's hoping I still have a chance to talk to him next year...

Cpt_Prahl
05-15-2009, 02:05 PM
Yeah, well, I was planning to visit my Grandpa (and through that, my Grand-Uncle) this year, but paperwork got in my way...

Here's hoping I still have a chance to talk to him next year...
Visas? you dont need a visa to come to Germany if you are visitning family its under a recent act that economic cooperative nations of the eu do not require a visa for short term visits up to 3 months..for US passport Holders.)

I urge you again to presue presue presue they could pop off tomorrow...

I have had this happen with my Vet Buddies (Cpt Bob Irvine Feb 2007) (Sgt George Gevonvich 2006) its heart breaking cos you can no longer get information from them and share with them the incredable things they participated in....I feel blessed to have talked to them at all.

Never the less I'll quote a 29th Div vet I know "doesnt matter how much you do for us just the fact that you care is all that really matters"
I bout burst when he said that, I guess for me this has become an obsession but what the hell I could be dooing allot worse things with my life....
Dont forget the telephone is better than nothing.

Schuultz
05-15-2009, 02:18 PM
Visa isn't a problem - I'm still a German citizen. The problem is that my passport expired since I moved to Canada, and I have to go to Ottawa to get it updated, otherwise the Airlines wouldn't even let me board.

Cpt_Prahl
05-15-2009, 02:27 PM
ARRRGGGGGGGG passports uff you should be able to do it by certified mail.

Schuultz
05-15-2009, 02:32 PM
Not since Germany felt like they had to introduce Biometric data on your passport...

Cpt_Prahl
05-15-2009, 03:02 PM
Lucky I got a new pass when I was home! bummer =(

rudeerude
07-16-2009, 11:26 PM
This is my first post,only because I stumbled across this picture on another forum.Maybe Joel was a little excited and didn't know how to present it to you guys as a new member and stumbled on his facts.This is his great uncle who gave his life for his country and rest in a cemetery in Normandy.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h209/rudeerude/WW2/1LT20Jay20V_20Thomson20grave20marke.jpg

Rising Sun*
07-25-2009, 06:39 AM
but you should put a little more detail in it

Talk about people in glass houses throwing stones! :rolleyes:

flamethrowerguy
07-25-2009, 08:57 AM
Talk about people in glass houses throwing stones! :rolleyes:

I know this as "people in glass houses have to shag in the basement".:D

Schuultz
07-25-2009, 09:11 AM
That's... different, I guess. Never heard that variation before ^^

Rising Sun*
07-25-2009, 10:50 AM
I know this as "people in glass houses have to shag in the basement".:D

Don't you have curtains in Germany? :D

Schuultz
07-25-2009, 11:47 AM
Don't you have curtains in Germany? :D

That would defeat the purpose of a glass house, now, wouldn't it? ;)

kathymccown
01-18-2010, 10:23 PM
open your pictures in whatever program you view pictures on your computer. go to edit or format and do resize. then do percentage until you get less than 1000 X 1000 for the size in bytes.

muscogeemike
02-08-2011, 08:22 PM
I don’t know if Joel is a Troll or not, I defer to you guys with much more experience then me.

I have only had real access to the internet for about 5 years, but I have been interested history for a long
time and I have read a lot in my life.

Shortly after I got on line I made a comment on another military site that one should be careful when dealing with “war stories“ . I know, absolutely, that many of the tales I have heard from vets cannot be totally true. This doesn’t detract from their service, it may simply mean that they have told the story so many times and for so long they believe the story to be true.

We (vets) have been known to exaggerate our service and deeds.

I was banned from that site and labeled a “troll”, at that time I didn’t even know what a “troll” was and I still don’t know exactly what I said that was so wrong.

Could be Joel is young and taking comments way too personally.

colmhain
09-10-2011, 11:34 AM
What a blend of personalities! You guys KILL me! I love it here, my FAVORITE wwII forum!

forager
09-11-2011, 04:30 PM
Stories are just that.
Some folks have not learned that.
I belong to a vet email group.
A couple of my old team members also belong-we don't get to tell any whoppers.

I have known a great many vets in my 64 years. Family, friends and neighbors.
I began collecting relics in the 50s when most were still in vets closets.
Heard lots of tales.

Some have forgotten details, some actually make up things.
Some are toally honest. Thing is, unless you were a witness, you will never know.
One thing my group notices is obituaries that are simply untrue on many levels.
Some guys have lied to their families who absolutely believe the nonsense they have been told.

muscogeemike
09-12-2011, 08:53 AM
I was with JFK Center in the mid ‘70’s, I spoke with SF guys who witnessed and/or participated in the filming of the GREEN BERETS. According to them they competed to see who could get the film makers to believe the most outrageous stories (apparently David Jansen was most gullible). They told me the Hollywood types would believe anything.
Might explain why so few good military movies are made.

colmhain
12-14-2011, 04:35 AM
This tread seems to have gone astray, so.....
I don't post often because I usually don't have anything to add. More often than not, I learn from this forum. I have MUCH more general knowlege of WWII than the average Joe on the street, but my knowlege is DWARFED by many here. The only vet of WWII I've spoken to about the war was my Grandfather. (R.I.P) The rest of my knowlege comes from books, internet, and here. I don't usually count the History Channel.:shock:

JR*
12-14-2011, 09:38 AM
Hello, Colmhain. With a name like that, you would not happen to be connected with the Emerald Isle, would you ? I would share your feelings about mixing it with the real experts on this side of the site - but they don't bite (most of them, anyway). As for the History Channel - I have not seen much of it. What I would say, from what I have seen, is that the visuals can be very interesting - but I would be a bit careful about trusting in an intimate connection between what you see and what you hear at times - esp. re. WW2. Best regards, JR.

leccy
02-18-2012, 06:35 AM
I have various issues with the history channel and its use of stock footage clips when emphasising a point. T34 charging over the Steppes when discussing the Battle of France and the Low countries, Tigers in the snow but its a documentary about North Africa. If they used footage actually related to what was being talked about it would be better and if they used footage of the actual equipment and location I would be happier still.

Useful for a starting point but I would not quote it as a source (unfortunately many of the COD type generation do, at the moment trying to educate people on the World of Tanks forums).

Rising Sun*
02-18-2012, 07:03 AM
Film documentaries suffer from the same problem as television news: they need video, not audio, let alone the careful presentation of research in print. Although print is no guarantee of accuracy, as I was reminded a few days ago when I choked on my breakfast reading a well respected journalist's historically unbalanced and uninformed feature page account of the Darwin bombings.

Film based 'history' tends to be centred on what film is available rather than a careful assessment of the facts.

Which often is compounded by dumbing it down to the superficial level of historical knowledge and research within the limited grasp and budget of the research staff, assuming they have any.

On the other hand, there have been some very good efforts to present an accurate historical record in film, to the extent it can be done in 22 or 45 minute bites, balanced by personal recollections. 'The World at War' has not been excelled as an overall record of WWII.

muscogeemike
02-18-2012, 08:46 AM
OK, I’ll buy this, but how to explain the voice over’s - 50mm mg’s instead of .50 cal; the US Army Air Corps when it should be the US Army Air Force; Me 109’s when it should be Bf 109’s; referring to all Japanese fighters as “Zero’s”; etc., etc. After all this time, and the money they spend, they should have got nomenclature correct, at least. If we “lay” historians know these things why don’t the “professionals”?

Nickdfresh
02-18-2012, 09:21 AM
I have various issues with the history channel and its use of stock footage clips when emphasising a point. T34 charging over the Steppes when discussing the Battle of France and the Low countries, Tigers in the snow but its a documentary about North Africa. If they used footage actually related to what was being talked about it would be better and if they used footage of the actual equipment and location I would be happier still.

Useful for a starting point but I would not quote it as a source (unfortunately many of the COD type generation do, at the moment trying to educate people on the World of Tanks forums).

I was watching "Secret War" (IIRC) this week. The program was on the German penetration of the Dutch underground and SOE's incompetence at detecting the continued apprehension of their agents soon after landing. They kept showing stock footage of what looked like a training film to me showing men dressed in what looked like East German paramilitary uniforms from the 1960's or 70's, complete with PPSH machinepistols and a guard holding an AK-47????

leccy
02-18-2012, 10:01 AM
Just been watching the World War II: The Apocalypse on National Geographic, it puts so many others to shame. Using actual footage from combat cameras etc of the actions and locations they were describing made it so much more enjoyable.

Colour and black and white film with a voice over.