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Kregs
12-16-2008, 06:07 PM
It was said that when Artur Axmann replaced Schirach as head of Hitler Youth in 1940, he made the Hitler Youth as a group that could perform auxiliary war duties. By the time of this video, a video I have never seen before except in short clippings, the Volkssturm were drafting 11 and 12-year-olds alongside their grandfathers.

I believe this is one of Hitler's last public appearances:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLW-6OU1EUo

Cpt_Prahl
12-17-2008, 01:47 AM
SS Panzerdivison Hitlerjugen was a divison made up of former hitler youth they fought the first time in Normandy and surrendered at the end of the war with about 500 men and a few tanks.

herman2
12-17-2008, 08:52 AM
I read this book called: I WAS THERE...it is about the Hitler Youth and is an amazing book if anyone ever is interested:)

Ace Vantura
12-17-2008, 06:14 PM
SS Panzerdivison Hitlerjugen was a divison made up of former hitler youth they fought the first time in Normandy and surrendered at the end of the war with about 500 men and a few tanks.

Pardon me here, At the last stages of the war,was not the German defenders were just young boys and very old men.

Kregs
12-18-2008, 04:43 PM
I read this book called: I WAS THERE...it is about the Hitler Youth and is an amazing book if anyone ever is interested:)

Yes, I'm interested. Who wrote it?

Moreheaddriller
12-18-2008, 07:21 PM
Wasnt the combat hitler youth divisons that commited some of the worst pow atrocities

flamethrowerguy
12-18-2008, 07:36 PM
Wasnt the combat hitler youth divisons that commited some of the worst pow atrocities

Right, members of the division's SS-Panzergrenadier-Regiment 25 shot about 100 canadian POW's at the Abbaye d'Ardenne in Normandy on June 7th, 1944 (IIRC). The regimental commander, Kurt Meyer, was sentenced to death for this after the war. However the penalty was changed into life-long imprisonment because of several intercessions and the fact that the Canadians admitted executions of german POW's by that time as well.

Kregs
12-19-2008, 10:48 PM
Wasnt the combat hitler youth divisons that commited some of the worst pow atrocities

Yeah, I've heard about that. They were going to be charged with war crimes at the end of the war but dropped the charges because of their age.

Kregs
12-19-2008, 11:24 PM
Wasnt the combat hitler youth divisons that commited some of the worst pow atrocities

Here is an excerpt from Gateway if you are interested in Hitler Youth division atrocities:

As the Allies prepared for their invasion of France in early June 1944, members of 12th SS Panzer (Hitlerjugend) Divison were deployed near Caen. The impressionable young minds of the Hitler Youth had been subjected to a powerful regime of training that had sought to overcome their immaturity, exploit their idealism and youthful enthusiasm, and politically indoctrinate them in Nazi ideology. The entire division, except for officers and NCOs, consisted entirely of boys aged 17 and 18.

They were led and taught by veterans of the 1st SS Panzer Divison (Leibenstandarte) of the Eastern Front - all die-hard Nazis embittered by the vicious fighting in the east. For four weeks prior to D-Day the 12th SS Division, at full strength with between 20,000 and 21,000 all ranks and 214 tanks, was busy preparing for an anticipated Allied attack. Among the senior officers present was SS Colonel Kurt Meyer.

Kurt Meyer was a battle-hardened, fanatical Nazi. A devout supporter of Hitler, he had joined Hitler's Bodyguard (Leibstandarte) in 1933 and all his subsequent service was with the SS. He had fought in Poland, France and Holland with the Adolf Hitler Division, and as regimental commander had played a key role in the Greek campaign. The intensity and brutality of the fighting on the Eastern Front needs no introduction, and Meyer had helped to spearhead the German drive into Russia.

Here he had displayed feats of fearlessness that would later mark his exploits in Normandy. During his three years in Russia he had plunged deep into the Caucasus, and during his retreat was completely encircled by his opponent three times, on each occasion fighting his way out with only a handful of survivors. Meyer was not only willing, but apparently sought out ways of putting his life in peril by dashing into danger areas on his motorcycle; the multiple wounds he sustained during the war were ample proof of this.

While Meyer had proven to be a great tactician, he was also accused of unpalatable behaviour, such as burning villages and murdering women, children, and Soviet soldiers during the brutal fighting around Kharkov in 1943. He had been assigned to the 12th SS Panzer Division in the spring of 1943 and was Commander of the 25th SS Panzer Grenadier Regiment in early June 1944. He would take over as divisional commander on 13 June, following the death of Brigadefuehrer Witt.

The Canadians first came into contact with the 12th SS in the days following the Normandy landings. On D-Day+1, SS Lieutenant Colonel Karl-Heinz Milius threw his 3rd battalion at the Canadians during the battle for Authie.

The North Nova Scotia Regiment and Cameron Highlanders thwarted this German counterattack, stopping the grenadiers in their tracks and bloodying the 12th SS Panzer division for the first time. The twenty-three Canadians captured by the Germans in Authie suffered a horrific fate that foreshadowed future atrocities at the hands of the SS troops. At the main intersection (at the southern end of the village) Canadian soldiers were disarmed, told to remove their helmets, and shot at close range.

The young German troops further insulted the Canadian lives they had taken. In one incident, some German soldiers propped up the corpse of a murdered Canadian, placed an old hat on his head, and stuffed a cigarette box into his mouth. In another situation, eight of the lifeless Canadian bodies were unceremoniously dragged onto the street where they were repeatly mutilated by passing tanks, trucks and armoured vehicles.

Appalled French onlookers later testified that SS troops whooped like drunken pirates at their handiwork.

The atrocities continued. Other Canadians were captured and taken to the Abbaye d'Ardenne, the headquarters of the German division where Meyer had watched the battle unfold. In the abbey garden eleven Canadians were interrogated and then killed on 7 June, each Canadian prisoner shaking hands with his comrades before being executed.

At noon the next day seven more Canadians were shot at the Abbaye; their murders coincided with the execution of Canadian POWs on the Caen-Fountenay Road. The following evening Canadian prisoners were taken to the 12th SS's 2nd Battalion headquarters to meet their death.

On the now tranquil grounds of the Chateau d'Audrieu, Canadian POWs were interrogated and duly executed, first in threes and later in more efficient larger numbers. These large-scale incidents represent 120 of 156 murders committed by the Hitlerjugend during the first ten days of the Normandy Campaign.

Other murders took place on a smaller scale at locations like Bretteville d'Orgueuise, Norrey and le Mesnil-Patry. News of the murders began to filter back to the Canadian ranks in Normandy, but there was little immediate proof of the atrocities.

In response to reports of atrocities from escaped Allied prisoners of war and liberated French civilians, the Allied headquarters staff formed organizations to look into allegations of criminal activity beginning in the summer of 1944.

Field Marshall Bernard Montgomery ordered two courts of inquiry while the Allied Supreme Commander, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, established a Standing Court of Inquiry under the Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force (SHAEF) which began its work in August 1944. Investigations into murders yielded disturbing information.

There was evidence of one hundred and fifty Americans who had been captured and murdered near Malmedy by 1st Panzer Division. Furthermore, the Allies began to realize the magnitude of the crimes committed by the 12th SS against Canadians. Between September 1944 and May 1945, for example, the bodies of the men killed at the Abbaye d'Ardenne were found in five shallow, unmarked graves.

flamethrowerguy
12-20-2008, 03:58 AM
What's that source again? Really, who/what is "Gateway"?

ptimms
12-20-2008, 06:52 AM
Not a great one, I would dispute the tank strength, the idea that everyone was 17 or 18 and the fact the Division was at full strength.

flamethrowerguy
12-20-2008, 07:07 AM
First of all: Hi, Paul, great thing to hear from you again!


Not a great one, I would dispute the tank strength, the idea that everyone was 17 or 18 and the fact the Division was at full strength.

Beside the horrific details of 12th SS' war crimes -which I never encountered like that before- it was the duplication of the american Malmedy victims what perplexed me a bit.

Kregs
12-20-2008, 01:56 PM
What's that source again? Really, who/what is "Gateway"?

An academic journal run by graduate students of history.

Here is a link to the full article:

http://grad.usask.ca/gateway/archive9.html

gumalangi
12-22-2008, 11:41 PM
What i got from,. waffen SS by keith simpson and Panzer Truppen Vol.2 by Jentz,.,

the full strenght of 12th SS when it was formed was 177 tanks

Panzerknacker
12-23-2008, 07:48 AM
Worth to mention here that before the Normandy landing several HJ personnel was involved in Home defense as "flakhelfer" or antiaircraft gun helper/gunner.

http://www.bunker-dortmund.de/a_Flak_Wellinghofen_03_Flakhelfer.jpg

flamethrowerguy
12-23-2008, 08:15 AM
Right, PK. As of January 26, 1943 the "home flak" within Germany was "manned" with HJ members almost solely.

3065

Panzerknacker
12-23-2008, 03:45 PM
Nice picture, the Pope Benedict XVI was also flakhelfer for a short period of time.

Egorka
12-23-2008, 03:50 PM
Right, PK. As of January 26, 1943 the "home flak" within Germany was "manned" with HJ members almost solely.

3065
Good book:
http://www.elimbo.de/EAB0000qetk-willy_birkemeyer:_jugend_hinter_stacheldraht.htm
http://www.elimbo.de/includes/scalepic.php?fn=http://www.elimbo.de/data/mtec/10/buch/0/9783402052693.jpg&w=245&h=400

Kregs
12-23-2008, 09:06 PM
What i got from,. waffen SS by keith simpson and Panzer Truppen Vol.2 by Jentz,.,

the full strenght of 12th SS when it was formed was 177 tanks

Where did they get the extra tanks?

;)

Speaking of which, it is quite interesting to note that many of the recruits were were given candy and sweets instead of tabacco and alcohol rations.

I'm guessing, although I don't have the info to back it up but they probably snuck in a few drinks before the commanders found out.

ptimms
12-24-2008, 03:36 AM
The total could include the SPG's of the Panzerjager battalion. But it wasn't initally in France.

flamethrowerguy
12-24-2008, 07:33 AM
Nice picture, the Pope Benedict XVI was also flakhelfer for a short period of time.

...and there have been quite some discussions about that:

The latest head of the Church was a member of the Nazi Youth Party. Whether he's repented or not, surely his association with this movement as a boy should disqualify him to head a supposed religion of peace and goodwill. Apparently not...
from "Flying Chariot Ministries"

or


“…Ratzinger’s Wehrmacht unit shot at allied pilots over Germany. We are supposed to believe that Ratzinger didn’t really mean to hurt anyone. Ratzinger’s response to the most overwhelming evil of our times was to go along with it. In recent months the Pope has urged European Christians to have more babies. This has so much the flavor of Lebensborn, it now seems completely fair to call Benedict “The Nazi Pope.””
from "Jesuit Watch"

http://www.lg-c.dk/uploads/pope-hj.jpg

Egorka
12-27-2008, 02:39 PM
Don Ogden, 15th Bomber Group, Don Ogden watches the Hitler Youth...
http://www.witness-to-war.org/content/view.php?g=t&c=NE&v=204

Panzerknacker
12-27-2008, 02:51 PM
...and there have been quite some discussions about that:



Discussion for what ? Is not like if he was a "freiwillinge" in that formation, the desperate need of personal in thelate years made Germany to use everyone and everybody, women, children and foreigners alike.

flamethrowerguy
12-27-2008, 08:18 PM
Sure, but Ratzinger being a member of an organization so closely related to the Nazis is enough for many to claim he can't be the head of the roman-catholic church. You may disagree, I do, but that's the way it is.

Rising Sun*
12-27-2008, 08:29 PM
Sure, but Ratzinger being a member of an organization so closely related to the Nazis is enough for many to claim he can't be the head of the roman-catholic church. You may disagree, I do, but that's the way it is.

Given the Catholic Church's past management and conduct, I think that being a Nazi, and the more senior the better, is an ideal qualification for running it. :D

flamethrowerguy
12-27-2008, 08:53 PM
Given the Catholic Church's past management and conduct, I think that being a Nazi, and the more senior the better, is an ideal qualification for running it. :D

Oooh, that's some heavy sh*t. Anyway, since I am a roman-catholic myself I have to abstain from any further comment for I don't want to get roasted in purgatory eternally after this life. :mrgreen:

Moreheaddriller
12-27-2008, 09:00 PM
please friends let us not get into it over the pope i mean take the crusaders for example they did and most of them got killed:lol:

Panzerknacker
12-28-2008, 11:55 AM
Sure, but Ratzinger being a member of an organization so closely related to the Nazis is enough for many to claim he can't be the head of the roman-catholic church. You may disagree, I do, but that's the way it is.


Yea, I can understand that , but if you are a catholic you know that everyone who repent of thier sins and have a truthful faith could be a perfect tool for spreading the word of god.

And hopefully the teological discussion would end here.

Kregs
01-01-2009, 09:11 PM
Sure, but Ratzinger being a member of an organization so closely related to the Nazis is enough for many to claim he can't be the head of the roman-catholic church. You may disagree, I do, but that's the way it is.

His exposure as a Hitler Youth member didn't come as much of a surprise as it should. In December of 1936, membership became mandatory for all boys.