PDA

View Full Version : Show Your Original WWII German Helmets



mike M.
09-20-2008, 10:05 PM
Okay Guys, Show what you have in your collections. I'll start. here is an original No decal . No markings that I can see.

aly j
09-20-2008, 11:29 PM
Okay Guys, Show what you have in your collections. I'll start. here is an original No decal . No markings that I can see.

is that a ww1 helmet

Major Walter Schmidt
09-21-2008, 12:04 AM
im working on an paper model right now..
not to scale but you can resize.. requests welcome

mike M.
09-21-2008, 08:24 PM
My Normandy Camo

flamethrowerguy
09-22-2008, 06:26 AM
Makes me envious, mike. Wish I had one/some.:(

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/35621-5/20080711 (http://www.ww2incolor.com/us-army/20080711.html)

aly j
09-22-2008, 10:49 AM
Makes me envious, mike. Wish I had one/some.:(

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/35621-5/20080711 (http://www.ww2incolor.com/us-army/20080711.html)

I wish i had one too.[German Helmet]

SS Ouche-Vittes
09-22-2008, 07:05 PM
Major, I think you should put more side to your template. It will look boxy and Lego-like if you don't have many sides on it.

Major Walter Schmidt
09-22-2008, 10:06 PM
It actualy looks better when you build.
but then, i should do that.

tankgeezer
09-24-2008, 12:14 PM
Makes me envious, mike. Wish I had one/some.:(

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/35621-5/20080711 (http://www.ww2incolor.com/us-army/20080711.html)
there are plenty of outfits that sell originals, as well as repro helmets. even the Luftschutz type. Prices vary, pm me if you want some addy's. or search the net, they are there. (Back in my youthful days, a good condition pick up helmet was about $5-$10., now its more often $50, to whatever they can get.)

flamethrowerguy
09-25-2008, 06:09 AM
Back in my youthful days, a good condition pick up helmet was about $5-$10., now its more often $50, to whatever they can get.

Well, geeze, that's nothing!
http://cgi.ebay.de/STAHLHELM-M42-M-42-WEHRMACHT-IN-3-FARBENTARNUNG-CAMO_W0QQitemZ380065358810QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 380065358810&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

mike M.
10-08-2008, 12:48 PM
Okay..Another one of mine. Single decal Heer. Liner looks like there was blood. I have another I will post later with documentation and its named.

mike M.
10-11-2008, 12:21 PM
Okay..another camo.

mike M.
10-18-2008, 12:01 PM
Here is a splinter camo named to a LT. Herbert Wenzel, what I know as of 15 Nov 44 he was with Company Co, 5th Company, Field replacement battalion, 708th Volksgrenadier Division. If any historians can help add to Herbert's history that would be great.

Edited to add: The 708th was one of several divisions that were destroyed during the Normandy breakout, operation Cobra.

Staz Johnson
11-03-2008, 06:39 PM
Ok.. here's mine, I've had it since I was about 10 years old..

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c267/StazJohnson/Image169copy.jpg

mike M.
11-04-2008, 09:35 AM
Very nice Staz..I've yet to own a SS helmet, still looking though.

Staz Johnson
11-04-2008, 05:03 PM
Yeah, it was my pride & joy when I was a kid. Funny thing, it may have been made as a hitler youth helmet, or for the Volks Grenadiers, cos it fit me perfectly when i was younger.. but now it seems tiny... maybe i just have a big head...

mike M.
11-07-2008, 10:22 AM
Yeah, it was my pride & joy when I was a kid. Funny thing, it may have been made as a hitler youth helmet, or for the Volks Grenadiers, cos it fit me perfectly when i was younger.. but now it seems tiny... maybe i just have a big head...


A lot of the German helmets are small, don't know if that is because soldiers were getting younger at the end of the war or what. What is the history on the SS lid? Where did you get it and from who? Have you ever had the decal authenticated ? SS helmets are a mine field, lots of money to be mad with an original so unfortunately the forgers see that and there are lots of fakes on the market. Is it possible to post a good close up of the decal?

Staz Johnson
11-07-2008, 11:00 AM
I got the helmet as I said when I was about 10 years old, so that would have been 1973/4, my Dad bought it from a reputable military memorobilia dealer (although I realise that is no vouchsafe of authenticity) & paid a lot for it.. 20-.. trust me, in 1973 that WAS a lot of money.

I have often wondered if it was maybe a German fireman's helmet which had been buried in someones backyard for 6 months to age it, but in all honesty I have no proof either way.

There are some serial numbers stamped on the inside of the rim, maybe they would be of some use to correctly identify it, & it has certainly been repainted (around the SS decal)at some point, the exterior of the helmet is a dark olive green, but the interior is much darker, almost black. The leather liner has some damage to it (a hole which I always told mt school pals was a bullet hole..) there is evidence of a hole in the actual steel of the helmet itself corresponding with the hole in the liner, but the hole has been filled from the outside. Also, the leather chinstrap was just so much history when I got the helmet, & had been replaced by an elastic one.

Here's a close up of the decal.. kinda blurry I know, I took it on my cell phone. I'll take a hopefully more in-focus one as soon as I can on a better camera & post that too.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c267/StazJohnson/ss-decal.jpg

flamethrowerguy
11-07-2008, 02:55 PM
It's hard to imagine that fakes were already produced in the early 70's. I am glad you gave us the information about the re-painting for the olive green kind of bothered me a bit.
P.S. Maybe you could post a photo of the left-side decall with the swastika as well.

Staz Johnson
11-07-2008, 05:47 PM
It's hard to imagine that fakes were already produced in the early 70's. I am glad you gave us the information about the re-painting for the olive green kind of bothered me a bit.
P.S. Maybe you could post a photo of the left-side decall with the swastika as well.

There is no swastika decal on the left side, that was either painted over, or was never there... sorry..

flamethrowerguy
11-07-2008, 07:07 PM
There is no swastika decal on the left side, that was either painted over, or was never there... sorry..

Hmm, that's indeed strange for there should be one on the M35 helmet.

2962

Staz Johnson
11-07-2008, 07:55 PM
Hmm, that's indeed strange for there should be one on the M35 helmet.

Yes I know it should be there, but as I said, as long as I have had the helmet, it has been in it's current state.

If we assume for a moment that it is a genuine piece (like you said, fakes were probably rare as far back as '73) , it has certainly been repainted at some point, whether during the war (it was common pracice for troops to paint over the decals on their helmets in the later years, because as I understand it, it was felt that they made too nice a target) or post war, & it is perfectly possible that was when the swastika decal disappeared. So the lack of it doesn't worry me too much.

Staz Johnson
11-07-2008, 08:02 PM
BTW... if it is genuine it's not an M1935 model, but an m1942. In order to make manufacure easier in mass production, the edge was left 'raw' after it was stamped out, & turned outwards, rather than rolled under as in the 1935 model.

If you look at the initial pics I posted you will see that the edge is turned out.

flamethrowerguy
11-08-2008, 05:19 AM
BTW... if it is genuine it's not an M1935 model, but an m1942. In order to make manufacure easier in mass production, the edge was left 'raw' after it was stamped out, & turned outwards, rather than rolled under as in the 1935 model.

If you look at the initial pics I posted you will see that the edge is turned out.

Right about this but the M42 was produced completely without decalls - also for mass production reasons.

Staz Johnson
11-08-2008, 07:47 AM
Right about this but the M42 was produced completely without decalls - also for mass production reasons.

Hmmmm... the plot thickens..

Anyway, I don't know if these pics will help clear things up any, or just serve to muddy the waters even more. But here they are anyway.

First, a decent close up of the SS decal. In this shot it's possible to see how the repaint has covered the black line around the edge of the decal somewhat.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c267/StazJohnson/100_3157_1.jpg

The liner, & the helmet interior. Here you can see that the original color of the helmet was this very dark grey, or possibly black. Also you can see that the chinstrap D-rings are rounded, marking this as the second model liner band. The area cirlced is the hole in the liner...

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c267/StazJohnson/100_3158_1.jpg

Here you can see the area of the helmet shell that was at one time a hole, which correspomds with the hole in the liner..

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c267/StazJohnson/100_3160_1.jpg

Finally, the part of the outter shell of the helmet showing how the hole in it was filled at some time.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c267/StazJohnson/100_3161_1.jpg

ww11freak34
11-09-2008, 10:33 PM
i found this pic off the web.

mike M.
11-10-2008, 01:27 PM
can you tell what the stamps are inside? EF M42 shell?

Staz Johnson
11-10-2008, 04:29 PM
can you tell what the stamps are inside? EF M42 shell?

Yes, to be specific, it has EF64 stamped near the chinstrap D-ring, & the numbers 2513 (I think.. it's difficult to make them out, & impossible to photograph) on the rim at the rear of the shell.

Here's a pic of the 'EF' number, it's difficult to see, but it's the best I could do.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c267/StazJohnson/100_3168_1.jpg

Comrade Commisar
11-10-2008, 04:29 PM
Makes me envious, mike. Wish I had one/some.:(

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/35621-5/20080711 (http://www.ww2incolor.com/us-army/20080711.html)

Me too

mike M.
11-13-2008, 02:29 PM
Hi Staz, Looks like you have an original SS helmet. I ran it buy some friends who know SS decals and lids and here is what they have to say.

"Looks like a good EF to me. EF M42 shell?

Yup, I concur. Nice looking EF.

Original EF

I can't find anything wrong with the decal either but it just doesn't seem to match the wear on what we can see of the helmet around it. Is it possible that the decal was originally painted around or very carefully dug out? If it has been dug out that may explain the scrubbed looked.

I have to say I still think it is a good EF and the fact it sits on an EF shell sits good with me. The repainted shell also supports the scrubbed decal wear, I guess that someone cleaned this one before painting it.

It definitely has the breaks and correct angles of an original EF decal. Could have been scrubbed down during the War or even Post War..."

Staz Johnson
11-14-2008, 06:48 AM
Hi Staz, Looks like you have an original SS helmet. I ran it buy some friends who know SS decals and lids and here is what they have to say.

"Looks like a good EF to me. EF M42 shell?

Yup, I concur. Nice looking EF.

Original EF

I can't find anything wrong with the decal either but it just doesn't seem to match the wear on what we can see of the helmet around it. Is it possible that the decal was originally painted around or very carefully dug out? If it has been dug out that may explain the scrubbed looked.

I have to say I still think it is a good EF and the fact it sits on an EF shell sits good with me. The repainted shell also supports the scrubbed decal wear, I guess that someone cleaned this one before painting it.

It definitely has the breaks and correct angles of an original EF decal. Could have been scrubbed down during the War or even Post War..."

Yep, thanks.. it does seem that way. One of your friends has surmised correctly, that the helmet was repainted around the decal, or possibly with the decal masked off. Either way, the current overall paintjob obviously isn't original.. especially since the repair which has been made to the hole in the helmet was repainted at the same time, dating the paint job to at least after the helmet saw action.

Anyway, thaks for taking the time. I have to say, I'm obviously glad it seems to be an original, but even if it wasn't, it has always been & would continue to be a prized possession.

mike M.
12-25-2008, 12:42 PM
Have a couple new lids to show..A nice orig SD Heer named lid and a very cool Desert Camo. On this one they mixed sand in the paint and it was spred or brushed on.

colonel hogan
12-25-2008, 05:15 PM
is that a ww1 helmet

it is definately a ww1 era helmet

mike M.
12-25-2008, 08:07 PM
it is definately a ww1 era helmet

This is a typical WW I helmet..the big tip off is the bolt on the side of the lid.

Terry_214
12-27-2008, 12:05 PM
Staz,

do you have any other pics?

The helmet looks a bit long in the rear, but maybe its the photos.

nemesis
12-27-2008, 02:10 PM
Luftwaffe Single Decal ,has nice liner with an officers name inside

nemesis
12-28-2008, 04:02 AM
Staz,

do you have any other pics?

The helmet looks a bit long in the rear, but maybe its the photos.

More pics of Luft helmet ,got more if you want to see I also have a Fire Polizei Helmet l

Schuultz
01-13-2009, 08:26 PM
Staz, what bugs me is the way the "bullet hole" looks... I can't correctly see if the bullet hole is inward or outward - but from what I can see, it seems like a rather odd point of impact

If you ask me, it looks like the original owner either killed himself by putting the gun in his mouth or under his chin pointing upwards, or, if the bullet hole points inwards, was possibly executed while on his knees??

Major Walter Schmidt
01-13-2009, 09:04 PM
Maybe the hole was made after the guy died or got wounded?
Maybe it fell of and shrapenal got it?

Staz Johnson
01-14-2009, 06:10 AM
Staz, what bugs me is the way the "bullet hole" looks... I can't correctly see if the bullet hole is inward or outward - but from what I can see, it seems like a rather odd point of impact

If you ask me, it looks like the original owner either killed himself by putting the gun in his mouth or under his chin pointing upwards, or, if the bullet hole points inwards, was possibly executed while on his knees??


Maybe the hole was made after the guy died or got wounded?
Maybe it fell of and shrapenal got it?

I think that the photographs must be slightly confusing. The hole in the shell was definately made from the outside -in, & not the other way around (the steel is bent inwards, although it does appear to have been slightly bent back into place at the time the repair to the shell was made), & judging from what can be seen of the hole it is almost perfectly round, which would seem to eliminate a hole made by a piece of shrapnel, which would presumably make a more random jagged edge hole.

As for the hole being in a unusual place, I think you must be assuming that all combat soldiers face death directly & head on.. something I think is unlikely. It would only have taken the wearer to dip his head slightly forward to facilitate the impact in this position.

I have made a couple of quick sketches, to illustrate how the hole in the helmet could have come about, a soldier taking cover on the ground, or advancing under fire.... of course, he could just as easily have been sat with his head down reading the paper while taking a shit :D... I guess we'll never know.

http://i39.tinypic.com/20j20iv.jpg

Schuultz
01-14-2009, 06:40 AM
Nice drawings. You actually just call those quick sketches?! I don't think I'd be able to draw that well if I had hours of time. :D

Ok, I was confused by the image, I thought the bullet hole was in the back of the helmet, not the front.

Staz Johnson
01-14-2009, 07:25 AM
Ok, I was confused by the image, I thought the bullet hole was in the back of the helmet, not the front.

ahhhhh.. ok, I see. Yes, the hole is just on the curve of the front of the helmet, central to the vertical axis (i.e. right above the wearer's nose).

Glad you like the drawings.. thanks :D

Schuultz
01-14-2009, 08:32 AM
ahhhhh.. ok, I see. Yes, the hole is just on the curve of the front of the helmet, central to the vertical axis (i.e. right above the wearer's nose).

Glad you like the drawings.. thanks :D

Yeah, they're pretty cool. What program did you use (I just assume this isn't drawn by pencil/pen)?

I assume you're using one of these pen tabloid things?

Staz Johnson
01-14-2009, 10:27 AM
Yeah, they're pretty cool. What program did you use (I just assume this isn't drawn by pencil/pen)?

I assume you're using one of these pen tabloid things?

It actually is drawn in pen (the black linework anyway).. a Sharpie to be exact, I then scanned the sketch, then added the red rifle shots in Photoshop.

I don't own a Wacom graphics tablet, although I do know a lot of people (other illustrators) who swear by them. I'm strictly an old school analogue kind of guy. :D

Schuultz
01-14-2009, 10:37 AM
That's quite the impressive gallery you have there!

I have one of these tablets, too, but I mainly use it for photoshopping images - not drawing.

They're quite tough to get used to, if you ask me, and I think I'm sitting wrong, because whenever I used it for an extended period of time my back hurts like hell:mrgreen:

But once you're used to it, it makes working on pictures a lot easier - especially when you can change the color, density, etc of the picture with the click of a button :D

Oddly enough, whenever I'm drawing I have less problems with the 'typical' tough points (hands, faces), but rather getting the torso right... I'm never happy with the way the shoulders and waist area looks...

EDIT: You did a crossover between Aliens and Batman!? Why have I never heard of that?! How old is it?

Staz Johnson
01-14-2009, 10:54 AM
That's quite the impressive gallery you have there!

I have one of these tablets, too, but I mainly use it for photoshopping images - not drawing.

They're quite tough to get used to, if you ask me, and I think I'm sitting wrong, because whenever I used it for an extended period of time my back hurts like hell:mrgreen:

But once you're used to it, it makes working on pictures a lot easier - especially when you can change the color, density, etc of the picture with the click of a button :D

Oddly enough, whenever I'm drawing I have less problems with the 'typical' tough points (hands, faces), but rather getting the torso right... I'm never happy with the way the shoulders and waist area looks...

EDIT: You did a crossover between Aliens and Batman!? Why have I never heard of that?! How old is it?

We're really getting off-topic here, so apologies to anyone who's looking at this hoping to see some new pics of German helmets.

But the Batman/Aliens 2 book came out around 2002 I think, here's the Amazon listing (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Batman-Aliens-2-Ian-Edginton/dp/1840237341).

I know what you mean about back pain though, I know lots of artists who have ended up with poor posture & back problems after years of sitting hunched over a drawing board... & now over a computer too I guess.

Schuultz
01-14-2009, 11:00 AM
We're really getting off-topic here, so apologies to anyone who's looking at this hoping to see some new pics of German helmets.


Very true.

So let's get back to helmets:

Does anybody own the mid/late war M1940 Fallschirmjaeger helmet?
I know I've seen one in my Grand-Uncle's basement, and I hope I can get it this summer and post pics in here, but I just wondered if anybody else had them.

I understand it they are relatively rare?

mike M.
02-21-2009, 09:28 AM
Does anybody own the mid/late war M1940 Fallschirmjaeger helmet?
I know I've seen one in my Grand-Uncle's basement, and I hope I can get it this summer and post pics in here, but I just wondered if anybody else had them.

I understand it they are relatively rare?


Oh yes..Please check into that. depending on condition ORIGINALS are approx. $4000 and up..with decals better..camo..better

mike M.
02-21-2009, 09:34 AM
Another update..picked up a DD Heer combat worn. You can see around the rivits..it has been white washed at one time

navyson
02-21-2009, 09:44 AM
Another update..picked up a DD Heer combat worn. You can see around the rivits..it has been white washed at one time

Dang, that's a beauty! My aunt and her husband had some items brought back from Germany. One was a helmet looking like that. (with the decals) After he died, all that disappeared in the divvying up of the estate. My cousins don't know what happened to it (stupid them, not knowing/caring what they had, probably).

Iron Yeoman
02-22-2009, 04:21 PM
Very true.

So let's get back to helmets:

Does anybody own the mid/late war M1940 Fallschirmjaeger helmet?
I know I've seen one in my Grand-Uncle's basement, and I hope I can get it this summer and post pics in here, but I just wondered if anybody else had them.

I understand it they are relatively rare?

I think we've got one in our squadron bar, picked up from when the regiment was in italy. I'll try and get a picture next time i'm there. We've got quite a few helmets, including 2 or 3 german ones again picked up during the regiment's travels in WW2, i'll try and get some photos of these too.

Schuultz
02-22-2009, 05:24 PM
Cool, thanks! What regiment is it? The Royal Yeomanry one you talked about in your other thread?

Iron Yeoman
02-23-2009, 02:28 AM
Cool, thanks! What regiment is it? The Royal Yeomanry one you talked about in your other thread?


Wrong yeomanry, but yeah the one in the other thread. We've got quite a bit of WW2 kit about i'll see what I can get photos of and post it up.

Schuultz
02-23-2009, 09:17 AM
My bad. But yeah, you should definitely do that. I'm curious to see what you got :D

mike M.
02-23-2009, 11:00 AM
My most recent buy. An officer named Luft. with the G.I. bring back tag. Previous soldiers name was scratched off and the new soldiers name painted on. Nothing like holding history in your hands.

Iron Yeoman
03-02-2009, 03:30 PM
My bad. But yeah, you should definitely do that. I'm curious to see what you got :D

Ah yeah, well lads what happened was....

I had every intention of taking a few photos ('onest guv) but I was collared by the duty screw and spent most of the evening sorting out minging kit from the last weekend we were out, so didn't really get a chance.

I'll try to get some next time :oops:

mike M.
04-23-2009, 10:10 PM
Okay..no one wants to play so here is my Toned Heer NS..Just came in the mail today, with belt.

mike M.
05-08-2009, 02:31 PM
My most recent lid. A SD M42 Heer all came from the same Vet.

Cuts
05-08-2009, 04:07 PM
My most recent lid.
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3342&d=1241811072
A SD M42 Heer all came from the same Vet.

I take it that's a new shaft on the M24 ?

mike M.
05-08-2009, 07:02 PM
I take it that's a new shaft on the M24 ?

No..This is a matched set dated 43, it just has a light colored wood. Stick looks to be maked with an eagle 43 Fcc, same as the head.

Nickdfresh
05-08-2009, 09:50 PM
This is a stupid question, but what is the canister on the left? I've read it's a canteen. I've been told it's a gasmask case...

Cuts
05-08-2009, 10:28 PM
This is a stupid question, but what is the canister on the left? I've read it's a canteen. I've been told it's a gasmask case...

Whoever told you that is...


quite correct Nick. :)

It's a metal ressie case which while it protects the contents very well, can be a pig if you fall over, or lean back, onto it.

mike M.
05-08-2009, 11:14 PM
No stupid questions here. Its a gas mask canister. Both mask and canister are painted 165 and the little bags are extra lenses.

Nickdfresh
05-09-2009, 08:35 AM
No stupid questions here. Its a gas mask canister. Both mask and canister are painted 165 and the little bags are extra lenses.

Stupid? Why would they even carry any of this since gas was never used in WWII?

flamethrowerguy
05-09-2009, 08:39 AM
Stupid? Why would they even carry any of this since gas was never used in WWII?

Although it was of course strictly forbidden many German soldiers got rid of the gas masks and filled the canisters with extra ammo and food.

Nickdfresh
05-09-2009, 08:56 AM
Although it was of course strictly forbidden many German soldiers got rid of the gas masks and filled the canisters with extra ammo and food.

One of the first thing US soldiers did after D-Day. The bags were pretty useful for stuffing full of extra stuff...I recall a scene from "Battleground" in which the 101st paratroops entering Bastogne during the Bulge and neatly disposed of their masks into a big pile...I still have my mask though. I was given an extra M-17A1 in the reserves and no one seemed to care as they were going to the M40 by then...