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aerwulf6814
08-24-2008, 01:00 PM
What happened to the xm8 rifle?
Did kennedy use politics to block the buy ?

flamethrowerguy
08-24-2008, 05:26 PM
Wasn't the project turned down because of problems with heat dissipation during intense use?
Or maybe the US Army does not want to break up from the loved-hated M16?

Nickdfresh
08-24-2008, 05:35 PM
What happened to the xm8 rifle?
Did kennedy use politics to block the buy ?

Um, no. The Bush ensnared us into the ground War which has prevented any further research on new small arms...

Nickdfresh
08-24-2008, 05:36 PM
Wasn't the project turned down because of problems with heat dissipation during intense use?
Or maybe the US Army does not want to break up from the loved-hated M16?

Partly. But the Iraq War is causing problems with the production of current small arms, much less newer ones...

pdf27
08-24-2008, 06:11 PM
XM-8 was binned because:
- It isn't all that much better than an M-16, being really just a G-36 in new wrapping.
- Iraq ate the budget
- There is the current argument about calibres - buying the XM-8 would lock the US into 5.56mm for even longer
- Iraq ate the budget
- It was only ever really an extension of the (failed) OICW program, and the rationale for doing something with it in the first place was always a bit thin

Sergej
08-24-2008, 06:18 PM
Now, stuff like FN Scar, HK416, 6,5 mm Grendel and 6,8 mm Remington SPC is coming.

Nickdfresh
08-24-2008, 08:12 PM
Now, stuff like FN Scar, HK416, 6,5 mm Grendel and 6,8 mm Remington SPC is coming.


Yeah. I think their going to redefine "small caliber" and try to hybrid the best of both worlds with a 6.5mm type round...

Nickdfresh
08-24-2008, 08:19 PM
Not too mention that the XM-8 was ugly as sin. Looks more like a case for pool sticks than a rifle...

Semper Fi
08-24-2008, 11:28 PM
Well I heard form my dad that the Xm8 rifle had problems with the heat, and the feeding of a fresh round. It would cook off before the one firing it was ready.
And the 5.56x45mm is a good anti-personal round, but has no balls, The much larger 7.62x59mm is a hard hitting round but the weight is dumb.

I had In i idea that you could use depleted Uranieam ( tried to spell ) rounds like the M1A3 Abrams main battle tank.

What do you all think? and what about the M9 beretta is that a good side arm?

Man of Stoat
08-25-2008, 02:55 AM
There has been tonnes of small arms development since 2003 funded by the US military, almost all of which has been focused around improving the AR 15 platform. Examples: 6.8 SPC, HK 416, optics, handguards and so on. As has been set up the thread, the XM8 was an attempt to rescue something from the ridiculous OICW program and thereby justify the amount of money spent.

As such, it suffers from all the problems of the G36, the most significant of which is that the dam thing melts, which is also why no serious army has adopted it and HK are now pushing the 416.

Semper, 7.62 x 59 mm is a new one to me, did you invent it yourself? depleted uranium in a small arm? Such ideas are best kept to yourself...

aerwulf6814
08-26-2008, 12:57 AM
there have been a lot of modular concept rifles suddenly prototyped. they all use the m4 platform then try to use carbon fiber tech to make it.all are caliber convertible-I would want to know more on the 6.8 SPC.
then too everyone except the US is fielding a bullpup rifle.

tankgeezer
08-26-2008, 01:19 AM
Lets not forget the 4.8 mm unobtainium tipped cartridge proposed for use in the Calico weapon :)

Sergej
08-26-2008, 07:37 AM
there have been a lot of modular concept rifles suddenly prototyped. they all use the m4 platform then try to use carbon fiber tech to make it.all are caliber convertible-I would want to know more on the 6.8 SPC.
then too everyone except the US is fielding a bullpup rifle.

There two rifles in 6,8 SPC:
Barret M468
Steyr AUG A3 (in testing)

Semper Fi
08-26-2008, 03:15 PM
There has been tonnes of small arms development since 2003 funded by the US military, almost all of which has been focused around improving the AR 15 platform. Examples: 6.8 SPC, HK 416, optics, handguards and so on. As has been set up the thread, the XM8 was an attempt to rescue something from the ridiculous OICW program and thereby justify the amount of money spent.

As such, it suffers from all the problems of the G36, the most significant of which is that the dam thing melts, which is also why no serious army has adopted it and HK are now pushing the 416.

Semper, 7.62 x 59 mm is a new one to me, did you invent it yourself? depleted uranium in a small arm? Such ideas are best kept to yourself...

It is 7.62x51mm I was thinking of something else.

Man of Stoat
08-27-2008, 03:36 AM
there have been a lot of modular concept rifles suddenly prototyped. they all use the m4 platform then try to use carbon fiber tech to make it.all are caliber convertible-I would want to know more on the 6.8 SPC.
then too everyone except the US is fielding a bullpup rifle.



No, I think that you will find that most armies still use a conventional layout, and for good reason.

Uyraell
02-12-2009, 08:56 AM
Not that I am by any means expert in the topic of infantry weapons, but there is a faint irony here.
The Italians and Japanese both fielded rifles in 6.5mm during WW2 and were thought of as being in error to do so.
Nearly 70 years on, and modern armies are looking at weapons in those same sizes?
That strikes me as ironic, gentlemen.

As to xm8 : to the best of My knowledge that came down to funding, rather than fault with the weapon concept/prototypes, though others will know more on that than I.

Then again, one of the best-ever weapons was quietly binned on grounds of cost, and I'd seriously wonder at the sanity of some if that design was not re-examined in the light of current knowledge, production techniques, and materials.
G11.

Regards, Uyraell.

Man of Stoat
02-12-2009, 09:55 AM
The G11 as one of the best ever weapons?

Pull the other one!

Complex beyond your wildest imaginations, fires a miniscule projectile, and suffers enormously from cook-off.

Good job it was binned.

Dixie Devil
02-12-2009, 10:39 AM
Not that I am by any means expert in the topic of infantry weapons, but there is a faint irony here.
The Italians and Japanese both fielded rifles in 6.5mm during WW2 and were thought of as being in error to do so.
Nearly 70 years on, and modern armies are looking at weapons in those same sizes?
That strikes me as ironic, gentlemen.

There is a degree of irony there; however one has to remember that Italians and Japanese were using bolt action rifles while the new designs are for use in fully automatic weapons.

Uyraell
02-13-2009, 02:46 AM
Yes, true, it just seemed a little "odd" when viewed from the perspective of what was written postwar regarding the Italian and Japanese weapons.
My understanding from those who fired the Arisaka, for example, is that it was, despite the Allied opinion, a rather effective weapon. About the Italian weapons, I'm less certain, but in any case if looking to automatics would have preferred the Beretta smg.

I found the current discussion to be intriguing.

Regards, Uyraell.

Uyraell
02-13-2009, 02:57 AM
The G11 as one of the best ever weapons?

Pull the other one!

Complex beyond your wildest imaginations, fires a miniscule projectile, and suffers enormously from cook-off.

Good job it was binned.

In truth, I don't recall seeing cook-off references.
I admit the projectile was small, though have always taken that as relating to the caseless round side of matters, descendant as that is from the Mauser and RhineMetall company experiments in WW2.

Perhaps I am in error, but most of what I read on the G11 (certainly at or near the time) was reasonably supportive of it. Granted, it was no wunderwaffe, but I've always felt it was, and could certainly have evolved to, something eminently usable, hence my opinion as earlier expressed.

As I say elsewhere, I'm no "expert" in the topic of infantry weapons, and judging by your earlier postings, your knowledge far exceeds mine.
Regarding which, I am respectfully glad to be educated in your field of knowledge.

I am somewhat more of a generalist, than specialist, with regard to some topics, as, I'd think, many folk are.

Regards, Uyraell.