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Kimura
05-28-2008, 04:08 AM
I got a Russian copy of the upcoming PC game T-34 vs Tiger. In the game all tanks got the same tracers color a yellowish white that Iím in doubt itís correct.
During my time as tanker we used the standard NATO color red thatís good to see even at daylight.
Now my Q.
What was the tracer color of the ammo of either the 8.8 cm KwK 36 (Tiger Ausf.E); 7.5cm KwK 42( Panther Ausf.D-G).

Major Walter Schmidt
05-28-2008, 10:22 AM
I guess you should ask a veteran.

bullitt
01-22-2009, 12:46 AM
As I understand it, from the veterans that have shared their experinces with me, the 88 fired in direct fire-ground mode was visible as a comet-like green ball. In AA mode the tracers were not visible or used, but 88 flak bursts were black and 105-128mm were brown.

Schuultz
01-22-2009, 07:58 AM
Yeah, I think they were green, but not sure.

Never heard of that game, what kind of game is it? Strategy, Simulation, Action?

Eismann
01-24-2009, 03:21 AM
It's a simulation
http://www.lighthouse-interactive.com/T-34-vs.-Tiger-Productgame
and a review here http://www.tanksim.com/reviews/t34vstiger.htm

Uyraell
02-07-2009, 06:42 PM
Yeah, I think they were green, but not sure.

Never heard of that game, what kind of game is it? Strategy, Simulation, Action?

My understanding is that German KwK tracershot of 50mm through to 128 mm was a sickly flouro-lime green colour, somewhat similar to modern chemical "lightsticks" as used by trampers/hikers etc.
A veteran friend is ex-Tankcorps, and has seen 75mm and 88mm German KwK tracer in action.

Regards, Uyraell.

Schuultz
02-07-2009, 07:40 PM
So your friend is a WW2 veteran? Or is he talking about the modern tracers?

Uyraell
02-08-2009, 06:40 PM
So your friend is a WW2 veteran? Or is he talking about the modern tracers?

Hello Schuultz,

He's 80-plus years of age, about 86, I think.
Ex Royal Tanks WW 2 and ex NZ Armoured Corps Vietnam era.
He began WW2 as Royal Navy, a shipwright by trade.
Ended up in Mountbatten's lot, Combined Ops.
From there, he ended up in Royal Tanks.
Which is, as I understand it, where he was serving when he saw the tracers in action, in WW2.
Now, as to exact details of his WW2 service, that may never be published in our lifetimes. His ended up being one of those "off the books" Units, which were used in what today's terminology is Classified/Covert Ops, somewhat similar to modern Special Forces, of which his Unit was in many ways an ancestor.
That's as about as informative as I can be about him, career-wise.
I hope it suffices, Schuultz,

Regards, Uyraell.

Schuultz
02-08-2009, 06:47 PM
That's more than enough. I was just wondering, could've been you misunderstood the threat title ;)

And I hope I'm still alive when that stuff gets published... I mean, they won't keep them under seal for too long now, will they? My understanding was that they only kept stuff under seal until no survivors are left. Which would probably be withing the next 10 - 20, max. 30 years...

So I hope I'm still alive then :neutral:

That is unless that stupid meteor hits us in the 2030s...

Ivaylo
02-08-2009, 10:23 PM
That's more than enough. I was just wondering, could've been you misunderstood the threat title ;)

And I hope I'm still alive when that stuff gets published... I mean, they won't keep them under seal for too long now, will they? My understanding was that they only kept stuff under seal until no survivors are left. Which would probably be withing the next 10 - 20, max. 30 years...

So I hope I'm still alive then :neutral:

That is unless that stupid meteor hits us in the 2030s...

Don't worry Shuultz you will be alive if not i will write a memoir about you :D And get rid of the feeling that meteor will hit us in 2030s , get to bed early and don't watch too much fantasy films :D :D ( joke )
As for the game i gave it a try and i have to say it's nice simulation , everything is pretty much real at least i think so . Maybe it lacks a more variety of vechiles and the soldiers are a little bit not on top with the graphics . The other thing that i saw was that the campaigns of the russians and the germans are actually only with 6 missions which is quite short ... :(
I hope they will improve that and will put more missions with some patch or add-on .

Schuultz
02-09-2009, 07:32 AM
Don't worry Shuultz you will be alive if not i will write a memoir about you :D And get rid of the feeling that meteor will hit us in 2030s , get to bed early and don't watch too much fantasy films :D :D ( joke )

Daily Show would never lie to me!! :D

Ivaylo
02-09-2009, 07:58 AM
Daily Show would never lie to me!! :D

I am not so sure Schuultz :rolleyes: That could be a market trick so you to watch it more and more :D Better try to live now ;)

Schuultz
02-09-2009, 08:20 AM
Well, it was the future Boss of NASA who said it. Though he said that there's currently a meteor approaching the earth and that in 2027 we'll be able to predict whether he hits us 7 years later or not... It wasn't to panic-making...

Uyraell
02-09-2009, 09:06 AM
That's more than enough. I was just wondering, could've been you misunderstood the threat title ;)

And I hope I'm still alive when that stuff gets published... I mean, they won't keep them under seal for too long now, will they? My understanding was that they only kept stuff under seal until no survivors are left. Which would probably be withing the next 10 - 20, max. 30 years...

So I hope I'm still alive then :neutral:

That is unless that stupid meteor hits us in the 2030s...

A long way off topic for thread, but the mods may forgive it: Make no bets on how long the classified ops stuff stays classified. It has to be remembered, Winston Churchill had the King assent to alteration of the applicable laws, so that the Brit info on Pearl Harbour and events prior is NOT released until 2092: 150 years. It isn't beyond reason that with such a statute amendment in place that almost any sufficiently dread/classifed op could be covered the same way.
Regards, Uyraell.

Schuultz
02-09-2009, 09:50 AM
Jeez, no wonder there's conspiracy theories all around! But wouldn't a new government be able to reduce the classified time? I don't want to wait until I'm 102 to experience that nasty scandal...:mrgreen:

Uyraell
02-09-2009, 05:53 PM
Jeez, no wonder there's conspiracy theories all around! But wouldn't a new government be able to reduce the classified time? I don't want to wait until I'm 102 to experience that nasty scandal...:mrgreen:

Put it like this: roughly every 8 years or so during my lifetime some brit Professor or such has urged the reduction you mention, a kind of "open the files NOW" call, and the usual excuse is "Academic Interest" or "the Truth, NOW, for Prosperity". On each and every occasion, as far as I'm aware, the governmental response has been:"How about we extend the deadline?" ie:"you Won't be seeing that info in Your liftetime, laddie". This has usually met the academic's reply of "no that's fine as it is, thanks".:mrgreen:

Personally, be it Brit or any other Commonwealth government, I've never known the situation outlined above to differ, and as regards similar cases for our American cousins, the same certainly applies.

Regards, Uyraell.

stano666
12-16-2010, 01:18 PM
Didn,t the green came frome the cupper of the bullets, the actual tracer being bright yelllowish-wihte ? As in the tracers burnt so hot, it burnt the bullets too?, them being made of cupper wich (when burning or oxedicing) gives a greenish colour.
Greetings stano666

Uyraell
12-20-2010, 03:35 PM
Didn,t the green came frome the cupper of the bullets, the actual tracer being bright yelllowish-wihte ? As in the tracers burnt so hot, it burnt the bullets too?, them being made of cupper wich (when burning or oxedicing) gives a greenish colour.
Greetings stano666

The short answer is "No".

Copper does burn as green when it oxidises. That is correct.
However, most "tracer" ammunition dates back to the "De Wilde" ammunition employed in World War One as incendiary rounds used to destroy Zeppelins.

The tracer rounds employed in World War Two are basically outgrowths or developments of the same processes that produced the De Wilde rounds.

Included in this category of developments are the rounds which were coated in compounds designed to show the path of the round in flight.

Certain compounds and classes of compound had to be chemically "hardened" so as to not burn as fast as the friction of air as the round travelled would otherwise cause.

Certain other classes of round were developed which carried within them small amounts of bright-burning substances, again allowing them to be employed as tracer and or incendiary rounds, an example of which is the "Armour Piercing Incendiary" as came to be employed in air to air combat.

It is this same evolutionary/developmental path that in part leads to the current crop of Depleted Uranium Rounds as employed by modern Tanks, such as M1A2 Abrams, Leopard 2A6, and Challenger2.

The topic of Tracer, Incendiary, and Armour Piercing
rounds is an entire thread in and of itself, it being that both the "Payload" and "Coatings" developmental pathways were heavily and successfully pursued, and led in part to the ammunition in current use.

Kind and Respectful Regards, Uyraell.

stano666
12-21-2010, 09:12 AM
Nice, i'll lookk up "de wilde"
btw sounds dutch, Belgium guy?, S.A.?? that is IF it's a name, i'll find out soon, i read a munition topic here, but there more to find here (-hehe- thats obvious ofcourse), i tanks you'all for that.
Greetings stano666 :)

Uyraell
12-22-2010, 04:25 AM
Nice, i'll lookk up "de wilde"
btw sounds dutch, Belgium guy?, S.A.?? that is IF it's a name, i'll find out soon, i read a munition topic here, but there more to find here (-hehe- thats obvious ofcourse), i tanks you'all for that.
Greetings stano666 :)

I'm going completely from memory regarding De Wilde's country of origin. I read the information when I was 14, and that was in 1977. If my memory is accurate: De Wilde was Flemish, but managed to interest the UK Admiralty in his ammunition because the Royal Navy was very interested in both night gunnery and in shooting down German airships. De Wilde was able to provide examples of ammunition suitable to both uses, even though each was at opposite extremes in terms of size of munition.
Somewhere around 1922 or 1924 De Wilde ammunition becomes classified as "Banned for use in Warfare" by the then League of Nations, predecessor of today's United Nations, and just as corrupt, inefficient and ineffective.

In WW2 the "Ban" is very quickly disregarded by all combatant nations, and I'm uncertain that there has ever been an attempt to enforce the "Ban" since that time.

I Hope the additional info is of help to you Stano666. :)

Kind and Respectful Regards, Uyraell.

stano666
12-22-2010, 01:57 PM
Tanks, & i lol for that un bit, never trust people in suits.
Greetings stano666 :)

Uyraell
12-22-2010, 03:24 PM
Tanks, & i lol for that un bit, never trust people in suits.
Greetings stano666 :)

You are very welcome Stano666. :)

Kind and Respectful Regards, Uyraell.