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mike M.
05-26-2008, 08:37 PM
URINE TEST

I got this in an email...Sometimes such a simple idea has SO much merit . . .



THE JOB - URINE TEST
(I sure would like to know who wrote this one! They deserve a HUGE pat on the back!)

I HAVE TO PASS A URINE TEST FOR MY JOB... SO I AGREE 100%

Like a lot of folks in this state, I have a job. I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In order to get that paycheck, I am required to pass a random urine test with which I have no problem.
What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test. Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check because I have to pass one to earn it for them?
Please under stand, I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do, on the other hand, have a problem with helping someone sitting on their A#@, doing drugs, while I work. . . . Can you imagine how much money the state would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check ?
Something has to change in this country -- and soon

Major Walter Schmidt
05-26-2008, 08:48 PM
Well, Urine tests do cost some money....

Churchill
05-26-2008, 09:02 PM
Then take it out of their welfare checks.

RifleMan20
05-26-2008, 09:35 PM
Good point mike but either way if we stop it protesters will come up demanding it and the work of democracy will get that back sooner or later and if we leave it as it is well we wouldnt need to go through what i just said. There is a loop hole in everything even democracy

Il Duce
06-01-2008, 05:08 PM
Great original post

tankgeezer
06-01-2008, 06:22 PM
If you have to take a cup test for your job, be careful not to eat anything containing poppyseeds, or the test will bounce a false pos for opiates. No matter what your employer says, or how much the lab says it cant happen, it will provide false results every time. To avoid law suits many companies have gone to a test using hair samples, which is much better, and be far less likely to produce a false result.

mike M.
06-11-2008, 12:35 PM
Good Grief...here is another. 7 Arrested for Cheering at High School Graduations

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,365461,00.html

pdf27
06-11-2008, 05:05 PM
Uh huh. Land of the free, where the government has the right to know the contents of your urine? I struggle to comprehend how you can even think this might be a good idea.

mike M.
06-11-2008, 06:52 PM
Yup...if some lazy druggie wants to sit home not work and get FREE money from MY TAXES..I would have no problem them having to pass a urine test to receive said funds. But we both know that will Never happen...keep rewarding mediocrity, that's what I say.
I hope your not saying that drug users on the welfare tit deserve FREE money.

edited to add: This would just be for the lazy welfare recipient that does not want to work for their money

Panzerknacker
06-11-2008, 07:38 PM
I found this "Only in America" ( of course assuming the "America" is the USA because I also live in america, the south, you know) by far more amusing.

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=V6cJjdH-rmI

Rising Sun*
06-11-2008, 08:18 PM
Uh huh. Land of the free, where the government has the right to know the contents of your urine? I struggle to comprehend how you can even think this might be a good idea.

Me too. I can't understand why a people so committed to asserting personal freedoms on everything from guns to free speech take this invasion of personal liberty so docilely.

Alas, it's starting to creep in here.

I have nothing to fear. They won't find any urine in my specimen. It'll be all beer. :D

Nickdfresh
06-11-2008, 09:19 PM
Yup...if some lazy druggie wants to sit home not work and get FREE money from MY TAXES..I would have no problem them having to pass a urine test to receive said funds. But we both know that will Never happen...keep rewarding mediocrity, that's what I say.
I hope your not saying that drug users on the welfare tit deserve FREE money.

edited to add: This would just be for the lazy welfare recipient that does not want to work for their money

Um, how much in tax dollars would it take to fund said drug testing program?

And the reason you're tested is the same reason I am; you're a public servant that I assume drives in gov't vehicles, and I drive company owned vehicles from time to time and that has to do with insurance regulations...

Meanwhile people stand by while illegal spying is conducted on their cell phones, this post, e-mail, and even snail mail; innocent people were KNOWINGLY EXECUTED by scumbag, corrupt prosecutors in Chicago not so long ago, and GMC decided that it was cheaper to settle lawsuits by family members of accident victims burned to death while driving their shitty defective pickup trucks than it was too pay like $20 per vehicle to recall and fix the gas tanks.

BTW, are any other Americans a bit pissed at the fact that they cannot even perform simple financial transactions at any bank they do not have an account at? Even though a few short years ago this was not a problem? And this is because of the silly, overweening "antiterrorist" and RICO crime statutes gone awry...

LOL, I tried to get a certified check to pay some one recently for like $200, and I was told that no bank could do it without an account due to anti-money laundering regulations...

Yeah, I'm f***ing Scarface because I might be laundering a whopping $200!

I just think there are bigger issues in the world. IMO

pdf27
06-12-2008, 01:40 AM
You're not the only ones with problems - the UK government passed legislation last night to allow "terrorist suspects" to be held without trial for 42 days. I can only hope that the House of Lords defeats this bill :(

Nickdfresh
06-12-2008, 09:36 AM
You're not the only ones with problems - the UK government passed legislation last night to allow "terrorist suspects" to be held without trial for 42 days. I can only hope that the House of Lords defeats this bill :(

Well, at least you don't hold them indefinitely at one of your old territories; especially when much of the evidence is hearsay from the unreliable Northern Alliance members that were just as likely settling old scores than telling the truth!

Rising Sun*
06-12-2008, 09:58 AM
Well, at least you don't hold them indefinitely at one of your old territories; especially when much of the evidence is hearsay from the unreliable Northern Alliance members that were just as likely settling old scores than telling the truth!

Well, at least Britain didn't leave its citizens languishing in Guatanamo Bay on dubious charges facing bullshit military commissions, while my country not only left one of its citizens there but our neo-con government actively pressured the Yanks to prosecute him. http://www.lawcouncil.asn.au/hicksjustice.html

George Eller
06-12-2008, 10:16 AM
I found this "Only in America" ( of course assuming the "America" is the USA because I also live in america, the south, you know) by far more amusing.

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=V6cJjdH-rmI
-

Armed Miss America 1944 Stops Intruder

http://noiket.com.vn/img/chuyende/Image/11/23042007/r.jpghttp://www.goldagers.com/wp-content/uploads/Venus02.jpghttp://simplymarvelous.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/venus-ramey-1944-gi.jpg
http://bp0.blogger.com/_ZdHTH-xcsQQ/Ri3v5jtT59I/AAAAAAAAAK8/uDd4hVazVoc/s400/venus.ramey.jpg
http://freeinternetpress.com/mirrors/msnbc.com/venus_ramey.jpg

http://noiket.com.vn/ketban/?mode=tintuc_id&id=3101&id_chinh=11&color=1
http://www.goldagers.com/category/venus-ramsey/
http://simplymarvelous.wordpress.com/2007/04/
http://glibandsuperficial.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html
http://freeinternetpress.com/story.php?sid=11447

Armed Miss America 1944 Stops Intruder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070420/brave-beauty-queen/
April 20, 2007 11:01 PM EST


WAYNESBURG, Ky. — Miss America 1944 has a talent that likely has never appeared on a beauty pageant stage: She fired a handgun to shoot out a vehicle's tires and stop an intruder. Venus Ramey, 82, confronted a man on her farm in south-central Kentucky last week after she saw her dog run into a storage building where thieves had previously made off with old farm equipment.

Ramey said the man told her he would leave. "I said, 'Oh, no you won't,' and I shot their tires so they couldn't leave," Ramey said.

She had to balance on her walker as she pulled out a snub-nosed .38-caliber handgun.

"I didn't even think twice. I just went and did it," she said. "If they'd even dared come close to me, they'd be 6 feet under by now."

Ramey then flagged down a passing motorist, who called 911.

Curtis Parrish of Ohio was charged with misdemeanor trespassing, Deputy Dan Gilliam said. The man's hometown wasn't immediately available. Three other people were questioned but were not arrested.

After winning the pageant with her singing, dancing and comedic talents, Ramey sold war bonds and her picture was adorned on a B-17 that made missions over Germany in World War II, according to the Miss America Web site.

Ramey lived in Cincinnati for several years and was instrumental in helping rejuvenate Over-the-Rhine historic buildings. She returned to Kentucky in 1990 to live on her farm.

"I'm trying to live a quiet, peaceful life and stay out of trouble, and all it is, is one thing after another," she said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18237342/print/1/displaymode/1098

-

Venus Ramey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_Ramey


Venus Ramey (b. September 26, 1924, Ashland, Kentucky) was Miss America in 1944, and was the first red-haired contestant to win the title...

-

Venus Ramey
http://www.johnsoncountykyhistory.com/people/RS.html


Venus Ramey is the only Kentuckian ever to be selected as Miss America. A native of Paintsville, the daughter of Evalina Brown Ramey and John Ramey, Venus performed on Huntington radio stations as a child and during her teen years. She later moved to Washington, D. C., where became a Conover Model and was selected to represent the nation's capital in Atlantic City in 1944. She traveled extensively throughout the United States on War Bond and USO tours during World War II. After operating a farm in Kentucky for several years, Venus eventually moved to Cincinnati where she served on that city's City Council.

-

Miss America 1944
http://www.missamerica.org/our-miss-americas/1940/1944.aspx

-

Panzerknacker
06-12-2008, 05:42 PM
Good link George.

The land in wich the people is not afraid to exercise the right to self defense, well, that is other good point in the USA resume.:)

Nickdfresh
06-12-2008, 09:40 PM
Well, at least Britain didn't leave its citizens languishing in Guatanamo Bay on dubious charges facing bullshit military commissions, while my country not only left one of its citizens there but our neo-con government actively pressured the Yanks to prosecute him. http://www.lawcouncil.asn.au/hicksjustice.html

Major ruling on the US Supreme Court came down on that today -- thank God!

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0613/p01s05-usju.html

George Eller
06-12-2008, 10:01 PM
Good link George.

The land in wich the people is not afraid to exercise the right to self defense, well, that is other good point in the USA resume.:)
-

Thanks PK,

Your humorous YouTube video clip sparked my memory about the incident. :)

-

Rising Sun*
06-13-2008, 09:46 AM
Major ruling on the US Supreme Court came down on that today -- thank God!

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0613/p01s05-usju.html

Yeah, but Dubya chose to support the Court's minority, confirming his unique ability to identify a lost cause and commit his Administration to it.

Americans should be proud that even with a stacked Supreme Court the majority still came out in support of the best principles for which the American Constitution stands.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/12/AR2008061203473.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

mike M.
08-27-2008, 10:21 PM
Well..maybe not only in America...but whats next

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Conventions/story?id=5668622&page=1


ABC Reporter Arrested in Denver Taking Pictures of Senators, Big Donors


DENVER -- Police in Denver arrested an ABC News producer today as he and a camera crew were attempting to take pictures on a public sidewalk of Democratic senators and VIP donors leaving a private meeting at the Brown Palace Hotel.

Police in Denver arrested an ABC News producer today as he was attempting to take pictures of Democratic senators and VIP donors leaving a private meeting at the Brown Palace Hotel.
(ABC News)
More Photos
Police on the scene refused to tell ABC lawyers the charges against the producer, Asa Eslocker, who works with the ABC News investigative unit.


(Click here to watch video of the arrest.)
A cigar-smoking Denver police sergeant, accompanied by a team of five other officers, first put his hands on Eslocker's neck, then twisted the producer's arm behind him to put on handcuffs.


A police official later told lawyers for ABC News that Eslocker is being charged with trespass, interference, and failure to follow a lawful order. He also said the arrest followed a signed complaint from the Brown Palace Hotel.


Related
PHOTOS: On the Money Trail at the DNCWATCH: ABC News Reporter Arrested in DenverMore From Brian Ross and the Investigative TeamEslocker was put in handcuffs and loaded in the back of a police van which headed for a nearby police station.


Video taken at the scene shows a man, wearing the uniform of a Boulder County sheriff, ordering Eslocker off the sidewalk in front of the hotel, to the side of the entrance.


The sheriff's officer is seen telling Eslocker the sidewalk is owned by the hotel. Later, he is seen pushing Eslocker off the sidewalk into oncoming traffic, forcing him to the other side of the street.



It was two hours later when Denver police arrived to place Eslocker under arrest, apparently based on a complaint from the Brown Palace Hotel, a central location for Democratic officials.


During the arrest, one of the officers can be heard saying to Eslocker, "You're lucky I didn't knock the f..k out of you."


Eslocker was released late today after posting $500 bond.


Eslocker and his ABC News colleagues are spending the week investigating the role of corporate lobbyists and wealthy donors at the convention for a series of Money Trail reports on ABC's "World News with Charles Gibson."


Click Here for the Investigative Homepage.

Nickdfresh
08-27-2008, 10:53 PM
Yeah, what next! Illegal, warrantless gov't wiretapping of American citizens? Torture in violation of signed treaties like the Geneva Convention? Carpe Blanche "Nat'l Security Letters?"

mike M.
08-28-2008, 12:00 AM
Yeah....

An ABC News producer is arrested for filming democrats leaving a hotel meeting! WHY??

Some think the democrat is "fair, above board, freedom loving, truthful, the answer to your prayers?" Well look again!

I can't wait to see the "spin" on this one!

Maybe they will try and ban cameras too...LOL

Nickdfresh
08-28-2008, 06:55 AM
Yeah....

An ABC News producer is arrested for filming democrats leaving a hotel meeting! WHY??

Some think the democrat is "fair, above board, freedom loving, truthful, the answer to your prayers?" Well look again!

I can't wait to see the "spin" on this one!

Maybe they will try and ban cameras too...LOL

They were arrested by the Denver Police... and when's the last time a politician banned a camera?


ABC News Producer Arrested

By Howard Kurtz
DENVER -- An ABC News producer was arrested outside a downtown hotel here Wednesday while he and a camera crew tried to shoot footage of corporate donors leaving a meeting with a group of Democratic senators.

Asa Eslocker, who works with the network's investigative unit, was charged with trespass, interference and failure to follow a lawful order. He was released four hours later on a $500 bond.

"We expect to see this kind of behavior in Myanmar, not in Denver, Colorado, at a national political convention where a reporter is trying to videotape big-money donors trying to meet with elected officials," said ABC spokesman Jeffrey Schneider.

Footage of the incident showed one police officer constantly pushing Eslocker as the producer walked backwards across the street, and another officer placing his hand around Eslocker's neck. Eslocker kept saying that it was a public street and asking what law he was violating. Schneider said Esocker never entered the Brown Palace Hotel, where the meeting was taking place.

The footage was shown on ABC's "World News" tonight. Eslocker was working with chief investigative reporter Brian Ross, who does stories on conventions and donors every four years. Schneider said the arrest was initiated by an off-duty sheriff's officer working as a security guard for the Brown Palace.

Jamie Glennon, a spokeswoman for Denver's Joint Information Center, said Eslocker "was advised numerous times by the police before he was apprehended to stop blocking the sidewalk and entryway to the hotel."


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/08/27/abc_new_producer_arrested.html

herman2
08-28-2008, 08:47 AM
Uh huh. Land of the free, where the government has the right to know the contents of your urine? I struggle to comprehend how you can even think this might be a good idea.

Ya well, if they guy sitting on the trigger switch of an atomic bomb arsenal is high on crack from the night before, then I think it's a dam good idea that he be subject to random urine tests, for the benefit of society. (But probably he doesn't have to do this and the guy who delivers your mail does have to because god forbid he might put the mail in the wrong slot cause of his high the night before!)

Nickdfresh
08-28-2008, 09:05 AM
Ya well, if they guy sitting on the trigger switch of an atomic bomb arsenal is high on crack from the night before, then I think it's a dam good idea that he be subject to random urine tests, for the benefit of society. (But probably he doesn't have to do this and the guy who delivers your mail does have to because god forbid he might put the mail in the wrong slot cause of his high the night before!)

Um, there's a difference between compulsory, universal urine testing for random citizens as opposed to people in jobs requiring life of death decisions in which the career choice in voluntary. Although, I do think there is entirely too much drug testing that is completely unnecessary in most professions. However, I think missile wing commanders, submarine skippers, and constriction personnel operating heavy equipment would obviously be those that should be tested...


Is this really that difficult a distinction to make?

navyson
08-28-2008, 09:15 AM
What gets me is that some of the school districts around where i live are implementing drug tests for those students that want to participate in sports. Then after initial drug test, random tests of athletes. I know it's with parents permission as most are minors (under 18yo) but c'mon!

boxerrick41
09-07-2008, 12:27 PM
whats bad is the drug which gets picked up the most is pot, which is pretty harmless but stays in your system a long time . More harmful substances like crack , cocaine or narcotics leave the system in just a day or two. you really have to just catch these guys in the act

Kampfgruppe Cottrell
09-07-2008, 02:38 PM
Doing drugs is illegal and until otherwise screw 'em. Sports are a privilege so if your a dirt bag and the school doesn't want that in their sports then so be it. Start a all drug league where everyone is juiced or doped up and they can play eachother.

Problem solved,
Brian

Rising Sun*
09-08-2008, 04:16 AM
Start a all drug league where everyone is juiced or doped up and they can play each other.

It's already been done, time and time again in various sports at all levels.

There isn't one sport (apart perhaps from synchronised swimming, which mightn't be a sport anyway and where the nose clips inhibit use of the full range of drugs) which hasn't been using the best and least traceable pharmaceuticals for the past few decades.

The top drug league, where only the best drug users using the best drugs from the best dealers can compete, is called 'The Olympics'.

tankgeezer
09-15-2008, 09:40 AM
Me too. I can't understand why a people so committed to asserting personal freedoms on everything from guns to free speech take this invasion of personal liberty so docilely.

Alas, it's starting to creep in here.

I have nothing to fear. They won't find any urine in my specimen. It'll be all beer. :D Then you must be drinking American beer,, there is no quality present to distinguish one from the other. :mrgreen:
I have always refused to take tests, and threatened my Employer with legal action if they caused a fuss about it,, Only the police have the power to force a test for intoxicants, and then only under specific circumstances. So I do not recognize any private, or public companies assumption that they have this power to force me to prove my innocence. I they see me slewing around, drunk as a lord, then they may summon police to deal with me, and discharge my employment under the terms of our contract, but not because they just want to see. I never was made to fill a cup, the mention of lawyer was enough I guess, plus the fact that I am well known for not drinking, or using anything.
It is sad to say that too many Americans have forgotten their roots, and rights, and have become complacent little mice, ready to fulfill George Orwell's vision of the Future.

herman2
09-15-2008, 12:07 PM
I found this article in the Toronto Star newspaper few days ago, as it relates to this thread, I found interesting.

"The head of the Toronto transit workers' union, Bob Kinnear, says he won't rule out the possibility of a labour disruption or legal action if the TTC goes ahead with a controversial drug and alcohol testing policy.

TTC chief general manager Gary Webster says the proposed policy, believed to be among the most far-reaching in Canada, is essential to protect workers and the public.

It would include random testing of workers and some managers in "safety sensitive" jobs. Positions are likely to include drivers, mechanics and maintenance workers.

Job applicants would be tested, as would employees suspected of using drugs and alcohol on the job or those involved in serious incidents. Workers disciplined for being unfit for work or those returning from drug or alcohol rehabilitation would also be subject to testing. Office staff and others who have no impact on the public would not.

The proposal, released in a report yesterday, still needs approval from city councillors on the transit commission. Specifics would then be developed for further approval.

Kinnear, who heads the Amalgamated Transit Union, says the plan violates the privacy of workers. He has vowed to fight it.

"We have a number of options available to us and we will take a look very closely at each (one). We will do what needs to be done to ensure that the TTC doesn't arbitrarily impose this policy on us," he said.

The report suggests there's a systemic problem with drug and alcohol use that doesn't exist, Kinnear said, adding that if the TTC suspects an employee is intoxicated it already has the right to call police.

He contests the report's finding of 39 incidents of drug and alcohol use among TTC employees between January 2006 and June 2008, including 17 recorded since asbestos-removal worker Tony Almeida was killed in April 2007.

Although Almeida wasn't blamed for the accident involving a subway work car that killed him and injured two others, the coroner found he had been using drugs earlier in the shift.

"The incidence of impairment (is) very low, but the consequences are very high," the TTC's Webster said. "The potential consequences can be catastrophic. That is an unacceptable risk. Our current policies need to be changed so we can reduce that risk," he said.

"We don't want anybody to believe it's unsafe to ride the TTC. That is not the case. The point is, once is too often."

Webster said safety is a "sacred trust" for the TTC. But current training, support and education programs have not been effective enough, he said.

"This is not a `gotcha' policy. This is a policy that will have assistance programs improved for our employees, prevention programs for our employees. It will make it clear that if employees are detected to have alcohol and drug abuse, there are potential consequences."

But even the TTC's chair, Adam Giambrone, thinks random testing may be going too far, though he supports testing for applicants and "with cause."

"We have to strike a balance between passenger safety and the rights of our employees," he said.

The TTC report quotes a study by the U.S. Federal Transit Administration that showed the number of employees testing positive for drug and alcohol abuse was cut by half over a 10-year period of random testing.

Mayor David Miller also advocates caution about random testing, but supports testing with cause. "We are entitled to know that people who drive and operate this very important system are completely free from any impairment. And sadly, there have been some recent cases of people being impaired and operating these vehicles. It's not acceptable," he told reporters.

Councillor Michael Thompson, who sits on the commission, said he's 100 per cent behind the proposal. "I have TTC workers in my ward and they tell me guys are drunk and guys have been smoking up," Thompson said.

Although Canadian law and human rights policies have typically taken a dim view of substance testing of workers, Thompson said the courts have made exceptions for jobs involving operating heavy machinery, vehicles or aircraft.

The testing policy would become part of a larger set of "fitness for duty" guidelines being developed by the TTC.

herman2
09-19-2008, 11:46 AM
The shit is hitting the fan in Toronto!!
From today's Toronto Star Newspaper:

The TTC has approved a limited drug-testing policy that will subject job applicants and workers most at risk of being impaired at work to saliva tests – if they're in roles where safety is crucial.

The move by commissioners yesterday somewhat defused opposition from human rights advocates and union leader Bob Kinnear, who had refused to rule out a strike or legal action if workers were forced to submit to the most controversial part of the proposed policy: random testing.

Under a fitness-for-duty policy to be implemented within a year, TTC workers in safety-sensitive jobs will be tested if there is reasonable suspicion they have been using banned substances on the job, or following an incident in which drug or alcohol use is suspected as a factor.

Those caught using drugs and alcohol at work, or who are returning to work after attending a substance-treatment program, will also be monitored through testing, though it's not clear what form that testing will take.

TTC chief general manager Gary Webster had argued for random testing of all employees as a deterrent. He suggested it was necessary to decrease the chances of a catastrophe, though proven cases of impairment have been relatively rare.

Random testing would have made the TTC's policy among the most radical in Canada – where, unlike in the United States, courts and human rights commissions have generally deemed random tests an invasion of personal privacy.

Civil liberties experts and union officials argued yesterday that random tests would indeed violate workers' dignity and privacy rights.

"As a union we are opposed to anyone being impaired on the job," said Kinnear, who heads the Amalgamated Transit Union local. But "it is degrading to workers to have to pee into a cup, probably while someone watches to make sure it's your urine."

The issue emerged from the April 2007 death of maintenance worker Tony Almeida, who was killed in an accident involving a subway work car that also injured two others. Although Almeida wasn't blamed for the accident, the coroner found he had been using drugs during his shift. He was caught using drugs months earlier, but wasn't monitored after he returned to work.

A TTC report released last week showed there were 39 incidents of drug and alcohol impairment recorded among employees over the past three years or so, although not all were drivers, managers or in other safety-sensitive jobs.

Only one of nine commissioners rejected all forms of substance testing.

aly j
09-21-2008, 12:27 AM
You're not the only ones with problems - the UK government passed legislation last night to allow "terrorist suspects" to be held without trial for 42 days. I can only hope that the House of Lords defeats this bill :(

its not just uk and usa with terrorists problems
every western country will hav them...i do know australia caught
some be4 they had the chance too blow up the MCG AND THE
WESTGATE BRIGDE how luckey is australia
i hope austrlia dont hav the same laws as uk does

Major Walter Schmidt
09-21-2008, 12:33 AM
its not just uk and usa with terrorists problems
every western country will hav them...i do know australia caught
some be4 they had the chance too blow up the MCG AND THE
WESTGATE BRIGDE how luckey is australia
i hope austrlia dont hav the same laws as uk does

could you talk in recognizable english?

aly j
09-21-2008, 12:43 AM
could you talk in recognizable english?

for people that spend time in the libary
and u cant understand what that meant
theres something wrong with u

Major Walter Schmidt
09-21-2008, 12:44 AM
I am very outdated (favorite composer/band is Richard Wagner) but still, use normal english...

aly j
09-21-2008, 12:54 AM
I am very outdated (favorite composer/band is Richard Wagner) but still, use normal english...

and my english ist normal
may be i should type in german you ,might understand me better.
ps i was trying too be funnie with you,not picking on you

Major Walter Schmidt
09-21-2008, 12:56 AM
nah, im still trying to learn deutsch so i cant realy understand it...

pdf27
09-21-2008, 06:01 AM
and my english ist normal
No, it isn't. The spelling is very poor and there is a complete absence of capital letters, most forms of punctuation, etc.
If you have trouble with this, Firefox has a built in spell checker, and an add-in for Internet Explorer to do the same thing can be found here (http://www.iespell.com/).

aly j
09-21-2008, 08:19 AM
No, it isn't. The spelling is very poor and there is a complete absence of capital letters, most forms of punctuation, etc.
If you have trouble with this, Firefox has a built in spell checker, and an add-in for Internet Explorer to do the same thing can be found here (http://www.iespell.com/).

oh sorry for not going too university like you.
and does capital letters matter REALLY.
i dont like you
youre horrible

Major Walter Schmidt
09-21-2008, 09:20 AM
And he happens to be a mod...XD

Rising Sun*
09-21-2008, 10:14 AM
oh sorry for not going too university like you.
and does capital letters matter REALLY.
i dont like you
youre horrible

As a fellow Australian and an Australian taxpayer whose considerable annual contributions to the national coffers have not always been well spent on education and other matters, as exemplified by your execrable txt posts, you would not have written that if you had had a teacher who was marginally familiar with the English language, which is a rare find in schools here these days, particularly among alleged English teachers, and even more rarely if you had had one who actually bothered to try to enforce the use of standard English expression and spelling.

Here's why you get a Z on the conventional marking scale of A to F for English expression.

Oh [not oh], [note comma, that's the squiggly thing at the bottom] sorry for not going to [not 'too', which means 'also' as distinct from the correct preposition 'to'] university like you.

and does [should be do, as it refers to a plural] capital letters matter [I rather think they do, as they perform the useful function of indicating the start of sentences, especially when the end of sentences is not indicated by a full stop, which is something else painfully absent from your txt spk.] REALLY. [As an adverb, REALLY should be placed before 'matter', although for emphasis your usage might be acceptable.]

i [I - indicates the personal pronoun as distinct from just a solitary vowel] dont [don't, using another squiggly thing above the base line which is called an apostrophe to indicate a contraction] like you

youre [you're - note the correct use of the apostrophe which is necessary for the contraction 'you are' as distinct from the commonly misused possessive 'your'] horrible

You may be correct about pdf27 being horrible :D, but at least he uses standard English and can be understood on the first reading.

I shall refrain from pedantic correction of misuses of 'like' and other words, because, like, you know, like, dude, like is like you know, the modern ummm, cept its like not ummm but like like and like totally random an stuff wot is like to cool for the rents to chill on dude no wot I meen coz i seeb tellin u

pdf27
09-21-2008, 10:52 AM
oh sorry for not going too university like you.
I studied Engineering, not English there, so I hardly think doing so should have a significant positive effect on my spelling/grammar.


and does capital letters matter REALLY.
i dont like you
youre horrible
Yes it does. Approximately half of our members have English as a second or third language. Using text speak, random abbreviations and a lack of grammar/capitalisation make things substantially harder for them to understand and participate in discussions.
Accordingly part of my job as a moderator is to encourage everyone who is capable of it (and as someone who lives in an English-speaking country and is apparently a native English-speaker you should be) to write their posts in clear and coherent English. Doing so adds greatly to the level of understanding of those whose read/written English is not so good.

Oh, and last I checked "being really nice" isn't on the job description for any of the jobs I do, here or elsewhere. Get over it.

Nickdfresh
09-21-2008, 04:25 PM
oh sorry for not going too university like you.
and does capital letters matter REALLY.
i dont like you
youre horrible

You should, and he's correct. Not trying to be mean, but you really need to write (and read, for a model of quality writing) more and stay away from the text messaging and internet "newspeak." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak)

You don't need a university for that, just a store of books in a library and a diary or something...

Nickdfresh
09-21-2008, 04:45 PM
I studied Engineering, not English there, so I hardly think doing so should have a significant positive effect on my spelling/grammar.

...

I studied English (Literature), and learned almost nothing regarding grammar! :D Although I did get taken to the woodshed regarding my poor spelling and reliance on spellcheck! I suspect this is the case everywhere whether it's Oxford, Harvard, or the modest, working class state school I went too..

The study of formal English grammar had largely been dropped from American (high school) classrooms in favor of the line of thinking that students would mimic the writings of authors -- thereby intuitively internalizing grammar with little formal, technical study or memorization. I think of late, more emphasis on teaching basic grammar has returned to middle and high schools. Especially with the rise of technology and the new shorthand of communication often confused with formal writing by the tweens...

Probably the best way to learn proper grammar is to learn it via a foreign language, where all the forms are analyzed in nauseating detail allowing one to make connections to the primary language spoken, or by studying linguistics (which I absolutely hated in the two mandatory courses I took). But the truth is that the more one writes, the more one fluidly incorporates proper grammar and spelling in his or her writing, whether the area of study is engineering or criminal justice...

pdf27
09-21-2008, 05:02 PM
Quite. Of course, you rarely write stuff on an engineering course - maybe a couple of proper reports a year, with the overwhelming majority just being calculations. In fact, just for fun I'll see if I can dig up one of my exam questions!

OK, this is from my fourth year "Flow Induced Sound & Vibration" exam - probably the hardest one I ever took.



4)a) What variation in the normal surface velocity over a sphere leads to:
(i) a monopole sound field
(ii) a dipole sound field
centred on the sphere. (10%)

b) A spherical air bubble of undisturbed radius a and surface tension T is surrounded by water with mean pressure p0, density ρ0 and sound speed c. The bubble is irradiated by an incident plane sound wave of amplitude I and frequency ω (<<c/a).
(i) Determine the scattered sound field if the bubble responds adiabatically. (70%)
(ii) What is the role of surface tension? (5%)
(iii) What controls the response of the bubble at resonance? (5%)
(iv) Describe how the scattered field from a small rigid sphere would differ (no detailed calculations are required for (iv)), (10%)

herman2
09-22-2008, 09:00 AM
oh sorry for not going too university like you.
and does capital letters matter REALLY.
i dont like you
youre horrible

Aly, Stop picking on PDF. He is my friend. He is a Nice person once you get to know him. .
PDF if your gonna Rumble, I am right beside you, don't worry. :cool:

aly j
09-22-2008, 10:06 AM
Aly, Stop picking on PDF. He is my friend. He is a Nice person once you get to know him. .
PDF if your gonna Rumble, I am right beside you, don't worry. :cool:

Thanks for ganging up on me herman 2
Im the one being picked on here

herman2
09-22-2008, 10:32 AM
Hey Aly J....I wrote that before you sent me that friendship request, so I shall now revise my stance.
Dear Captain PDF, Please don't start a rumble with my good new friend Aly J, because if you rumble with her, you will have me to tango with also, and we wouldn't want that now, would we. Not everyone is as eloquent as you are PDF. Quite frankly your brilliance scares me at times. I sometimes think of ways to outsmart you but then am left in the dark thinking how to. Anyway's Aly j is a new member and she is a girl so we should be be extra nice to new members. Thank You for your understanding. Sincerely, The Herman Meister:)

aly j
09-22-2008, 10:42 AM
Hey Aly J....I wrote that before you sent me that friendship request, so I shall now revise my stance.
Dear Captain PDF, Please don't start a rumble with my good new friend Aly J, because if you rumble with her, you will have me to tango with also, and we wouldn't want that now, would we. Not everyone is as eloquent as you are PDF. Quite frankly your brilliance scares me at times. I sometimes think of ways to outsmart you but then am left in the dark thinking how to. Anyway's Aly j is a new member and she is a girl so we should be be extra nice to new members. Thank You for your understanding. Sincerely, The Herman Meister:)

Thanx........I didt mean too pick on PDF,I dont want too go up against PDF
I think he was trying too help me with my typing,but i got a bit offend.

herman2
09-22-2008, 11:06 AM
Thats cool. But whatever you do, don't mess with RS cause he'll poke your eye out...My eye still hurts...(he also gets very testy over little things). Me and him had a minor disagreement over the Atomic bomb. I think as I remember it, he wanted to continue the war through conventional means and I opted for a swift end to the war through atomic means...He wouldn't see my ways so he got pretty nasty with me, but I forgive him. Anyways I think this thread is about drug testing so we are way off topic, thus I will bow out now. Just remember Aly J, that when you post so much in 1 day, the good ol boys will comment on it and say your talking too much, but don't worry about it, because in a Democracy we are all entitled to cast our say and don't let the good ol boys knock you down because you don't proof read or write too much or too little. These seasoned Vets live in WW2 Forum and they never eat or sleep. They just look for an opportunity to pounce on us little people....

pdf27
09-22-2008, 12:41 PM
Herman, what the frack are you on about?

herman2
09-22-2008, 01:00 PM
Sorry, I was having one of those moments before breakfast.It won't happen again..

mike M.
10-11-2008, 12:03 PM
Kennewick reservist faces threats over landscaping


Lt. Burke Jensen was called five months ago to serve his country in Kuwait. Now he is being told to get an irrigation system and landscaping on his property as soon as possible or face legal action from the Oak Hill Country Estates Homeowners' Association.

By John Trumbo

Tri-City Herald

KENNEWICK — Burke Jensen moved to Kennewick about a year ago, bought a nice house in the country south of the city and began to settle into a new job at Energy Northwest.

Then came the call five months ago to serve his country in Kuwait.

So Jensen, who says he is an involuntarily mobilized reservist, headed off, leaving behind a pregnant wife, a young son and a 2.5-acre lot with not a spot of landscaping.

Now, Lt. Jensen is being told to get an irrigation system and landscaping on his property as soon as possible or face legal action from the Oak Hill Country Estates Homeowners' Association.

"I really don't give a [expletive] where he is or what his problem is," said Chick Edwards, owner and developer of the 47-lot subdivision at the south end of Oak Street in Kennewick.

"It doesn't matter to me," said Edwards, who insists Jensen has violated terms of the homeowners-association covenants requiring that landscaping be completed within one year after an occupancy permit is issued for a home.

"[Jensen] doesn't have the right to walk away from his obligation," said Edwards, who as the developer is the only member of the homeowners association. "I have most of the property still, so I am the homeowners association," he said.

Jensen's situation is complicated by the fact his wife chose to return with her son to stay with family on the East Coast for the duration of her pregnancy, leaving the home unoccupied.

Jensen's attorney, Tony DeAlicante of Redmond, Ore., said Jensen had paid a landscaper thousands of dollars to design and install an irrigation system and hydroseed the large lot this summer.

But DeAlicante said it appears the landscaper may have abandoned the job with the irrigation system only partially completed and no seeding done.

DeAlicante said Jensen also would like to find a renter for his home, but Edwards said that would be a commercial use not allowed by the homeowners association.

"He's not going to rent it," said Edwards. He said an attorney who has reviewed the covenants agrees.

An e-mail on Friday from Jensen to DeAlicante, which was provided to the Herald, says several of Jensen's fellow employees at Energy Northwest are helping to clear the property of weeds and blow out sprinkler lines, if necessary, to make sure they will not freeze during the winter. It also says a neighbor used a tractor to mow weeds.

Rick Miller, whose home is in sight of Jensen's, said he's sympathetic to Jensen's situation. "Given the circumstances, it doesn't bother me," he said. "He can't control the circumstances."

DeAlicante said he has written Edwards to tell him the federal Servicemembers Civil Relief Act prevents any civil legal action from being taken against someone on active military duty overseas. He also maintains Edwards cannot legally prevent Jensen from renting his property.

But Edwards said he isn't backing down.

"This is a contract. I don't like the way his property looks. This clown gets to do what he wants, and I'm as mad as hell," he said.

Here's a link to the on-line article which I cut and pasted above: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008231428_reservist06m.html

Additionally, the following information regarding the developer was found on-line:

Edwards, Chick
32220 S Oak St
Kennewick, WA 99337
509-582-5679

aly j
10-11-2008, 07:49 PM
Thats cool. But whatever you do, don't mess with RS cause he'll poke your eye out...My eye still hurts...(he also gets very testy over little things). Me and him had a minor disagreement over the Atomic bomb. I think as I remember it, he wanted to continue the war through conventional means and I opted for a swift end to the war through atomic means...He wouldn't see my ways so he got pretty nasty with me, but I forgive him. Anyways I think this thread is about drug testing so we are way off topic, thus I will bow out now. Just remember Aly J, that when you post so much in 1 day, the good ol boys will comment on it and say your talking too much, but don't worry about it, because in a Democracy we are all entitled to cast our say and don't let the good ol boys knock you down because you don't proof read or write too much or too little. These seasoned Vets live in WW2 Forum and they never eat or sleep. They just look for an opportunity to pounce on us little people....

Thanx for the warning Herman 2 , but how i see it, that PDF is actually gentler than nickfreash is. I think i should watch out for Nickfreash more than PDF, both cool mods but with different personalities. Truce

Nickdfresh
10-11-2008, 09:36 PM
Thanx for the warning Herman 2 , but how i see it, that PDF is actually gentler than nickfreash is. I think i should watch out for Nickfreash more than PDF, both cool mods but with different personalities. Truce


Yes indeed, pdf is the nice one. I'm the ruthless one...

(Actually, we're both pretty ruthless, but we switch on and off with the "good cop, bad cop.")

aly j
10-12-2008, 03:51 AM
Yes indeed, pdf is the nice one. I'm the ruthless one...

(Actually, we're both pretty ruthless, but we switch on and off with the "good cop, bad cop.")

Oh ok...i just probelery havet seen pdf27 in his bad cop role yeat.
Hopefuly i never see it. Cheers

pdf27
10-12-2008, 02:20 PM
It isn't pretty. I tend to get rather loud & shouty, and then start giving fire control orders...

aly j
10-12-2008, 09:29 PM
It isn't pretty. I tend to get rather loud & shouty, and then start giving fire control orders...

Maybe i had you all wrong.:o

aly j
10-12-2008, 10:17 PM
Maybe i had you all wrong.:o

Actually,i had it all wrong.
Got a bit confussed.
George Eller is the gentle one, but also a cool mod.
My mistake pdf sorry. Cheers

herman2
10-14-2008, 07:42 AM
Yes indeed, pdf is the nice one. I'm the ruthless one...

(Actually, we're both pretty ruthless, but we switch on and off with the "good cop, bad cop.")

No No No, You guys are Nice and You know it..I mean..not as Nice as George Eller, but then again, we can't all be perfect. :mrgreen:

mike M.
10-15-2008, 10:23 PM
From the MANITOBA HERALD, Canada (a very underground paper):
A flood of American liberals sneaking across the border into Canada has intensified in the past week, sparking calls for increased patrols to stop the illegal immigration.
The possibility of a McCain/Palin election is prompting the exodus among left-leaning citizens who fear they'll soon be required to hunt, pray, and agree with Bill O'Reilly. Canadian border farmers say it's not uncommon to see dozens of sociology professors, animal rights activists and Unitarians crossing their fields at night.
I went out to milk the cows the other day, and there was a Hollywood producer huddled in the barn,' said Manitoba farmer Red Greenfield, whose acreage borders North Dakota. The producer was cold, exhausted and hungry. 'He asked me if I could spare a latte and some free-range chicken. When I said I didn't have any, he left. Didn't even get a chance to show him my screenplay, eh?'
In an effort to stop the illegal aliens, Greenfield erected higher fences, but the liberals scaled them. So he tried installing speakers that blare Rush Limbaugh across the fields. 'Not real effective,' he said. 'The liberals still got through, and Rush annoyed the cows so much they wouldn't give milk.'
Officials are particularly concerned about smugglers who meet liberals near the Canadian border, pack them into Volvo station wagons, drive them across the border and leave them to fend for themselves. 'A lot of these people are not prepared for rugged conditions,' an Ontario border patrolman said. 'I found one carload without a drop of drinking water. 'They did have a nice little Napa Valley cabernet, though.'
When liberals are caught, they're sent back across the border, often wailing loudly that they fear retribution from conservatives. Rumors have been circulating about the McCain administration establishing re-education camps in which liberals will be forced to shoot wolves from airplanes, deny evolution, and act out drills preparing them for the Rapture.
In recent days, liberals have turned to sometimes-ingenious ways of crossing the border. Some have taken to posing as senior citizens on bus trips to buy cheap Canadian prescription drugs. After catching a half-dozen young vegans disguised in powdered wigs, Canadian immigration authorities began stopping buses and quizzing the supposed senior-citizen passengers on Perry Como and Rosemary Clooney hits to prove they were alive in the '50s. 'If they can't identify the accordion player on The Lawrence Welk Show, we get suspicious about their age,' an official said.
Canadian citizens have complained that the illegal immigrants are creating an organic-broccoli shortage and renting all the good Susan Sarandon movies. 'I feel sorry for American liberals, but the Canadian economy just can't support them,' an Ottawa resident said. 'How many art-history and English majors does one country need?'

Nickdfresh
10-15-2008, 10:34 PM
Maybe they're just trying to get on the voter rolls, so Canada also has to vote for Obama/Biden? :)

After, with a double-digit lead, he has plenty to spare here in the states!

And we, Americans, will finally realize our long elusive goal of annexing Canada into our 51st (or will it be 56) state(s)! :evil:

aly j
10-15-2008, 10:40 PM
100 Years ago people were flooding too America,
100 years on people are trying to excape America. Work that out, go figure.

mike M.
10-16-2008, 10:02 AM
100 Years ago people were flooding too America,
100 years on people are trying to excape America. Work that out, go figure.


LOL...Your hate for the United States has clouded your vision..the above post is a joke. sorry to get your hopes up. :)
Trust me..people are still flooding here.

aly j
10-16-2008, 10:12 AM
LOL...Your hate for the United States has clouded your vision..the above post is a joke. sorry to get your hopes up. :)
Trust me..people are still flooding here.
No, i dont really hate America, just hate youre goverment.
YES youre right about people still flooding usa but not as many as 100 years ago.

herman2
10-16-2008, 11:49 AM
Maybe they're just trying to get on the voter rolls, so Canada also has to vote for Obama/Biden? :)

After, with a double-digit lead, he has plenty to spare here in the states!

And we, Americans, will finally realize our long elusive goal of annexing Canada into our 51st (or will it be 56) state(s)! :evil:

YA!, Right On. I can't wait to be annexed so I can vote for Palin. Come invade us USA...I am waiting. Yeaaa!!!!!

mike M.
10-17-2008, 07:23 PM
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/News/Politics/Detail;jsessionid=A07CB22C1C2838FFE11CFAF3CC3BFF5F ?contentId=7664724&version=11&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.14.1&sflg=1

It seems that she wore a McCain/Palin shirt to school and now she is a racist!

What sort of low life swine calls a 12 year old kid a racist for saying her views? Oh, wait, the NEA, and all the other liberal fools who attempt to educate our kids these days! The parents are doing a great job with these future nutjobs.

Racist? At 12? She wasn't before, but I bet she is now!

Major Walter Schmidt
10-17-2008, 07:34 PM
You know, FOX NEWS is said to be a very biased News provider and blaming that action on "Liberal fools" is a bit extreme..
Still, those kids should watch their mouths a bit.....
Attacking someone for their political opinions can never be justified.

mike M.
10-17-2008, 07:39 PM
You know, FOX NEWS is said to be a very biased News provider and blaming that action on "Liberal fools" is a bit extreme..



So you think the other news orgs. will cover this story?

Major Walter Schmidt
10-17-2008, 07:50 PM
Im not sure but FOX NEWS has been known to be prone to an extreme conservative bias.
I prefer BBC or NHK (Japanese network) to CNN, FOX or even ABC though.

mike M.
10-17-2008, 08:00 PM
I prefer BBC or NHK (Japanese network) to CNN, FOX or even ABC though.

Keep an eye out for this story..let me know if it makes it.

mike M.
02-04-2010, 12:31 PM
Hey Guys, time for an update.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/national/article/74-year-old_n.c._state_senator_shoots_wounds_intruder_at_h is_home/287987/P10

Long time Anti-Gun Advocate State Senator R.C. Soles, 74, shot one of
two intruders at his home just outside Tabor City, N.C. About 5 p.m.
Sunday, the prosecutor for the politician's home county said.

The victim, Kyle Blackburn, was taken to a South Carolina hospital, but
the injuries were not reported to be life-threatening, according to Rex
Gore, district attorney for Columbus, Bladen andBrunswick counties..
The State Bureau of Investigation and Columbus County Sheriff's
Department are investigating the shooting, Gore said. Soles, who was
not arrested,declined to discuss the incident Sunday evening.
"I am not in a position to talk to you," Soles said by telephone. "I'm
right in the middle of an investigation."

The Senator, who has made a career of being against gun ownership for
the general public, didn't hesitate to defend himself with his own gun
when he believed he was in immediate danger and he was the victim.

In typical hypocritical liberal fashion, the "Do As I Say And Not As I
Do" Anti-Gun Activist Lawmaker picked up his gun and took action in
what apparently was a self-defense shooting. Why hypocritical you may
ask? It is because his long legislative record shows that the actions
that he took to protect his family, his own response to a dangerous
life threatening situation, are actions that he feels ordinary citizens
should not have if they were faced with an identical situation.
It has prompted some to ask if the Senator believes his life and
personal safety is more valuable than yours or mine.
But, this is to be expected from those who believe they can run our
lives, raise our kids, and protect our families better than we can.

windrider
02-04-2010, 01:18 PM
This thread shoud be renamed "The neo-cons ranting corner"
or, deleted.

mike M.
02-04-2010, 02:26 PM
Hey windblower, how about a comment on the hypocrisy of this senator? Always easy to just rant neo con but don't say a word about the post. Standard!

tankgeezer
02-05-2010, 01:07 AM
It is true that the flaming anti gun folks are mostly talk, all sizzle, and no steak. It is also unfortunate that so many elected officials are skilled at speaking from both sides of their mouths. I can imagine that any future anti gun fulminations issued by this Senator will hold little weight. That is if he is still in office after the next election.

mike M.
02-05-2010, 12:38 PM
Good point Tankgeezer.

http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20100107/ARTICLES/100109828

State Sen. R.C. Soles indicted on assault charge

If you read the newspaper article, there's apparently more to the story than just shooting an intruder. Now I understand why we need so many anti-gun laws. It is to protect us from the politicians. Wouldn't it be justice if he was arrested under the laws that he promoted?

tankgeezer
02-05-2010, 03:33 PM
Good point Tankgeezer.

http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20100107/ARTICLES/100109828

State Sen. R.C. Soles indicted on assault charge

If you read the newspaper article, there's apparently more to the story than just shooting an intruder. Now I understand why we need so many anti-gun laws. It is to protect us from the politicians. Wouldn't it be justice if he was arrested under the laws that he promoted?
We do have one law to protect us from politicians,(or anyone else) the Second Amendment to the Constitution.

Nickdfresh
02-05-2010, 06:02 PM
Who gives a shit about an obscure NC State Senator?

We don't know what his views on gun ownership really were as the posted article is completely slanted and expands upon the AP source in a pretty disingenuous editorial manner...

Almost all American politicians are corrupt whores on the take of special interests and routinely discount the public good they give lip service too and often act counter to the best interests of their voters. Mainly because we have a long, dog-and-pony-show style of election cycles forcing politicians to prostitute themselves to the highest bidder in order to stay in office. That hypocrisy points both ways, and covers a multitude of phony, rotten bastards...

tankgeezer
02-05-2010, 07:12 PM
No fence sitting now Nick, how do you really feel? :)

Rising Sun*
02-06-2010, 04:54 AM
Almost all American politicians are corrupt whores on the take of special interests and routinely discount the public good they give lip service too and often act counter to the best interests of their voters. Mainly because we have a long, dog-and-pony-show style of election cycles forcing politicians to prostitute themselves to the highest bidder in order to stay in office. That hypocrisy points both ways, and covers a multitude of phony, rotten bastards...

Substitute 'Australian' for 'American' above and that pretty much sums up our major party politicians, and certainly all of those likely to be in leadership positions, who necessarily will form any government or opposition.

I wouldn't give them the steam off me piss and I wouldn't piss on any of them if they were on fire.

Every now and again there is an independent (i.e. not party) politician here who will stand courageously on matters of principle, but they're only one or two votes in a parliament where they usually don't matter among the major and minor parties. But they stand as useful reminders to how badly democracy works in a two party system, and how well the community could be served by honest and dedicated politicians freed of party discipline and the interests served by that discipline.

Rising Sun*
02-06-2010, 05:01 AM
Hey windblower, how about a comment on the hypocrisy of this senator?

Any comment about hypocrisy by a politician seems somewhat redundant.

Hypocrisy in a politician is about as surprising as venom in a rattlesnake.

windrider
02-06-2010, 06:52 AM
Well, if there was some appearance of balance on this thread,
I wouldn't give a shit. But Mike M seems to have an agenda here.
No comment about Bush's desastrous presidency. Not a glimpse about Cheney.
Or all the others joyous republican war-mongers.
It's all about the evil liberals/democrat/anti-gun/pacifists/commies.
I don't buy it.

Rising Sun*
02-06-2010, 07:17 AM
Well, if there was some appearance of balance on this thread,

There is no requirement for balance in this or any other thread. On this forum, anyway.

Balance is in the eye of the beholder.

And most beholders are blind in one eye.

About the only requirements we have on this forum are for people to avoid pointless shitfights and to exericse a modicum of courtesy when they are on the fringe of a shitfight.


I wouldn't give a shit. But Mike M seems to have an agenda here.

Of course Mike M is pursuing his views here.

As are you.

And good luck to both of you, as long as you don't get into a pointless shitfight.


No comment about Bush's desastrous presidency. Not a glimpse about Cheney.
Or all the others joyous republican war-mongers.
It's all about the evil liberals/democrat/anti-gun/pacifists/commies.

If you're opposed to those things, put your points and see if Mike M or anyone else wants to debate them.

Although in fairness to Mike M, it does seem a bit of a stretch to require him to defend Bush, Cheney, and the Republican war-mongers just because Mike M made a reasonable point about a politician being a hypocrite on gun control.

Perhaps it might be better to confine the debate to the point Mike M raised rather than widening it to a range of things which he didn't raise.

Although clearly Mike M is a fascist of no value to society because of his opposition to gun control. Apart from, IIRC, being a firefighter who at times will risk his life to save the lives and property of people he does not know and who might well oppose his views on gun control and other issues. The community would be ****ed without people like him, and people like the police, and the military forces. Some of whom use guns to protect the rest of us.

Mike M is entitled to express his views on gun control, as are those who oppose his views.

It would be nice if people who disagree with him argued their case clearly on gun control issues instead of just slagging him on the basis of his assumed political or other allegiances or attitudes.

32Bravo
02-06-2010, 08:34 AM
Any comment about hypocrisy by a politician seems somewhat redundant.

Hypocrisy in a politician is about as surprising as venom in a rattlesnake.

Guess you're sitting on the fence regarding politicians then? :)

Rising Sun*
02-06-2010, 08:55 AM
Guess you're sitting on the fence regarding politicians then? :)


Well, I was trying to be balanced. :mrgreen:

32Bravo
02-06-2010, 09:35 AM
Well, I was trying to be balanced. :mrgreen:

As ever! :)

mike M.
02-06-2010, 10:22 AM
No comment about Bush's desastrous presidency. Not a glimpse about Cheney.
Or all the others joyous republican war-mongers.



Please feel free to post any hypocritical actions, stupid laws you see happening here in the United States..that's what this thread is about. You still fail to address this guys actions..you must think what he did is OK.

mike M.
02-06-2010, 10:34 AM
It would be nice if people who disagree with him argued their case clearly on gun control issues instead of just slagging him on the basis of his assumed political or other allegiances or attitudes.


Well said Rising Sun, you say it much better than I ever could...I didn't see this posted before I posted my last post.

I'm liberal in some of my views and I'm conservative in others..

windrider
02-06-2010, 10:57 AM
Well well well,
I have no problem about every american citizen having a gun,
but I don't see the need to go hunting with an antitank gun ?

Also, what piss me off is that those guns end up here, in the hands of crack-head street-gangs, nice bikers like the hells angels or crazys who go school-shooting at some point. (yes we have that here too, even if the gun laws here are much more strict than in US).

If I was more interested in US politics, I'm sure I could find some republican bullshit.
I just prefer subjects related to ww2 .
That said, I'm sure that this senator will have, let's say, a new perspective on the manner?

mike M.
02-06-2010, 11:11 AM
but I don't see the need to go hunting with an antitank gun ?



See we do agree on something, I stopped using my antitank gun for hunting because it singed the meat too much on the squirrels I was shooting at. :)

I do hope that people know the right for Americans to own firearms has nothing to do with hunting, but that's for another thread.

windrider
02-06-2010, 01:25 PM
it was a figure of speech, of course.
I was thinking more of a 50mm sniper rifle or a 12 inch automatic...
I remember that police forces in the states were pretty pissed at that back then.
If you have the right to carry it, they will certainly make sure that they can sell it to you.
which reminds me of the famous Eisenhower speech about the politico-military complex. (was he a liberal ?)

tankgeezer
02-06-2010, 02:13 PM
Windrider wrote: "I was thinking more of a 50mm sniper rifle or a 12 inch automatic..."
Your descriptions are erroneous,(or were you making a joke) as 50 mm guns are artillery, and I never heard of a 12" automatic. (automatic what?) do some research before posting.
U.S. Citizen's rights under the Second Amendment do not provide for limits on what may be kept, or born. These rights also carry responsibilities, it is the mantle of freedom. They dont hand weapons out at the 7-11 along with the bacon,There are regulations, more than are needed. Most folks here dont really care what the police like, or dont like. They have their job, and we have ours.
But all this really has little to do with a Senator who acts in a hypocritical way, His future is uncertain, either by lost election, or remanded to a lengthy career in license plate technology. I agree with Mike M. America has little room for the likes of the cheat, the liar, the hypocrite, The people are beginning to see that it is only through their responsible citizenship that America will remain strong from the inside out. The elections this year, and 2012, will make this plain to see.

windrider
02-06-2010, 02:38 PM
http://gizmodo.com/324453/recoilless-auto-shotgun-fires-300-rounds-per-minute-no-cleaning-or-lube-required.
that's for that. BTW it's not exactly what I was looking for, the one I was referring to was made in the 90's by Colt or Remmington, I don't recall. This one is military, the other one was not. One the othet one I wanted to say .50 cal, my mistake.

windrider
02-06-2010, 02:51 PM
" I agree with Mike M. America has little room for the likes of the cheat, the liar, the hypocrite, The people are beginning to see that it is only through their responsible citizenship that America will remain strong from the inside out. The elections this year, and 2012, will make this plain to see."
I also agree on some of it, BUT...
From a graffiti on wall :
"If elections changed anything, they would be illegal"
How come you ended-up with Bush for 8 years, even with evident electoral fraud in Florida ?
There seams to be a lot of people that think occidental countries live in a democratic system. It's more like a class-monarchy, if you think about it. I don't know about your place, but there is not many plumbers, carpenters or electricians running the goverment. It's all abour lawyers, doctors, buinessmans, and the like. They have the money, their children have the best schools, so they can be in the system when they grow-up. Not unlike Africa, if you think of it...

tankgeezer
02-06-2010, 03:29 PM
Anyone is welcome to prove that there was fraud involved in Florida. Since no one has, it'll remain an Urban Myth till doomsday.Many feel that if the folks there can mange 5 to 10 bingo cards at a time, they can mark a ballot properly.
U.S. politics are what they are, you can watch it all, even study it intently and still not see the essence of it. If you want to really understand them, you'd have to win citizenship, and participate. But one word of advice, if you go about proclaiming "Neo-Con,this or Pansy-Lib,that etc. few will take the time to dialogue with you.

windrider
02-06-2010, 03:46 PM
ah the urban myth... (remember the weapons of mass-destruction ?)
as far as I know, regarding someone to be a neo-conservative is not an insult ?
The probability of me asking for US citizenship is very remote... That doesn'nt prevent me from being interested in US foreign policy when it affect me.
All I can say is don't watch too much fox-news, and keep it polite. You'll need all the politeness you can get when the chinese pull the plug on you.

tankgeezer
02-06-2010, 04:42 PM
Well, the Chinese are welcome to try to pull the plug, but we can always push the button.(I'll leave it to you to determine whether I am kidding, or not...) I think the People of the U.S. will find a way to square whatever debts our Bilious leaders have brought to us. Maybe we will let them repo G.W. and Obama. (we'll throw in Al Gore, Jane Fonda,and Jerry Falwell to boot)

windrider
02-06-2010, 04:57 PM
what's the starting bid ?
I'll throw a few gazillions for young Jane Fonda !

tankgeezer
02-06-2010, 10:19 PM
Then you should purchase a copy of Barbarella, and count yourself lucky.

32Bravo
02-07-2010, 05:28 AM
" I agree with Mike M. America has little room for the likes of the cheat, the liar, the hypocrite, The people are beginning to see that it is only through their responsible citizenship that America will remain strong from the inside out.

Maybe some of the people.



There seams to be a lot of people that think occidental countries live in a democratic system. It's more like a class-monarchy, if you think about it. I don't know about your place, but there is not many plumbers, carpenters or electricians running the goverment. It's all abour lawyers, doctors, buinessmans, and the like. They have the money, their children have the best schools, so they can be in the system when they grow-up. Not unlike Africa, if you think of it...

What is this heresy - are you some kind of socialist or something of the like? :lol:

32Bravo
02-07-2010, 05:31 AM
Then you should purchase a copy of Barbarella, and count yourself lucky.

Never got around to seeing Barbarella... Any good?

Rising Sun*
02-07-2010, 05:42 AM
I'll throw a few gazillions for young Jane Fonda !

The current version has weathered rather well, according to my weathercock.

32Bravo
02-07-2010, 05:44 AM
The current version has weathered rather well, according to my weathercock.

Every one a gem! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Rising Sun*
02-07-2010, 05:57 AM
It's more like a class-monarchy, if you think about it. I don't know about your place, but there is not many plumbers, carpenters or electricians running the goverment. It's all abour lawyers, doctors, buinessmans, and the like. They have the money, their children have the best schools, so they can be in the system when they grow-up.

So how does the eighth or thereabouts largest economy in the world, being California, end up being run by an Austrian body builder?

So how does the child of a school teacher and a secretary, being Sarah Palin, end up being a contender for Republican nomination for President?

So how does a child from the broken home of an economist and an anthropologist end up, via Indonesia, as the President of the United States of America?



Not unlike Africa, if you think of it...

I'm thinking of it.

I can't see any similarity between any Western nation and the terminal ****ups which typify Africa.

Nickdfresh
02-07-2010, 10:06 AM
Anyone is welcome to prove that there was fraud involved in Florida. Since no one has, it'll remain an Urban Myth till doomsday.Many feel that if the folks there can mange 5 to 10 bingo cards at a time, they can mark a ballot properly.

Voter suppression in Florida was largely "proved," but after the fact, so little could be done about it. What was also proved was the partly largely in charge of Floridian elections--Catherine Harris--was a complete erratic lunatic who never should have been in that position to begin with. She was an embarrassment not only to Florida, but to the GOP in general during her almost comical follow-on election campaign in which she made remarks that were either hysterically funny, or completely scary...


...U.S. politics are what they are, you can watch it all, even study it intently and still not see the essence of it. If you want to really understand them, you'd have to win citizenship, and participate. But one word of advice, if you go about proclaiming "Neo-Con,this or Pansy-Lib,that etc. few will take the time to dialogue with you.

I've seen dialogues erupt just because of those very words. I do not however believe that all conservatives are Neo Cons, certainly not in any intellectual sense. But many of the Neo Con attitudes because a plank of the GOP...but I think most would say that the concept of the "Authoritarian conservative" was itself coined by an ex-Nixon administration official as commented on the state of the Republican party in the 2000s, and he also claimed that such attitudes of marginalizing Democrats and liberals, and the stifling of debate and dialogue, was in a way completely antithetical to the true essence of conservatism and that even that patron saint of the modern GOP, Barry Goldwater, would grow to resent the attitudes...

And it's not "pansy-lib," it's "commie-lib." ;)

A link to Howard Dean's thoughts can be found here. (http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20070921.html)

tankgeezer
02-07-2010, 12:55 PM
Locally, its Pansy-Lib, as Commie-Lib is considered redundant :)

navyson
02-07-2010, 09:07 PM
Locally, its Pansy-Lib, as Commie-Lib is considered redundant :)
It's the same down here.

windrider
02-08-2010, 08:16 AM
So how does the eighth or thereabouts largest economy in the world, being California, end up being run by an Austrian body builder?

So how does the child of a school teacher and a secretary, being Sarah Palin, end up being a contender for Republican nomination for President?

So how does a child from the broken home of an economist and an anthropologist end up, via Indonesia, as the President of the United States of America?




I'm thinking of it.

I can't see any similarity between any Western nation and the terminal ****ups which typify Africa.

http://www.ranker.com/list/lawyer-associated-us-presidents/reference
After juste a quick research, that's 26 lawyers right there
( from 50 something presidents, not a bad average).

You see, that's the problem, put emphasis on the exeptions to proove or disproove something. I try to rely more on facts proven by statistics then ideological assumptions. I understand that what I say is not typical or mainstream thinking but...

32Bravo
02-08-2010, 01:30 PM
http://www.ranker.com/list/lawyer-associated-us-presidents/reference
After juste a quick research, that's 26 lawyers right there
( from 50 something presidents, not a bad average).

You see, that's the problem, put emphasis on the exeptions to proove or disproove something. I try to rely more on facts proven by statistics then ideological assumptions. I understand that what I say is not typical or mainstream thinking but...

What you say is fairly typical of those arguments put forward by various labour and trades union movements, anarchists and reformists for a couple of centuries at least. However, history is littered with stories of people who have challenged the ruling order since recorded history began.


here are some essays regarding modern elitism:

http://www.directessays.com/viewpaper/21551.html

windrider
02-08-2010, 01:43 PM
THX I'll readt it.
well there's not much in there more than evidences and I don't want to suscribe.
I never said I invented a new theory, I just said it was not mainstream.

here an extract:

Marxists see political elites as "bad guys" - theoretically, it is because they represent a small portion of the population and are believed to control most of the political power and money.
- and WTF will the marxist do, once they're in power ?

However, Plato's Republic offers a different standpoint. In his work, political elites are seen as "good guys" - wise, virtuous, and knowledgeable. It is difficult to define elitism, however. The above definition, first and foremost, deals with financial status. What's more, Plato's opinions and definitions of elites are blatantly out of date.
- Blatantly overdated ? Even if I consider myself as "autodidacte", I once had to endure the stuff... no argument here

32Bravo
02-08-2010, 02:38 PM
THX I'll readt it.
well there's not much in there more than evidences and I don't want to suscribe.
I never said I invented a new theory, I just said it was not mainstream.

here an extract:

Marxists see political elites as "bad guys" - theoretically, it is because they represent a small portion of the population and are believed to control most of the political power and money.
- and WTF will the marxist do, once they're in power ?

However, Plato's Republic offers a different standpoint. In his work, political elites are seen as "good guys" - wise, virtuous, and knowledgeable. It is difficult to define elitism, however. The above definition, first and foremost, deals with financial status. What's more, Plato's opinions and definitions of elites are blatantly out of date.
- Blatantly overdated ? Even if I consider myself as "autodidacte", I once had to endure the stuff... no argument here

Well, perhaps it isn't mainstream in the States...

Try this fella

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cecil,_3rd_Marquess_of_Salisbury

and these

http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=052156042X


I would recommend this book by John Dunn, I've read it several times


Review
"'Idiosyncratic, brilliant and very original.' Paul Kennedy 'Stimulating and deft... an impressive and interesting book.' Andrew Roberts, Daily Telegraph 'John Dunn has given us a rare thing: an intellectually aristocratic book written for a profoundly democratic age.' Sunil Khilnani, Financial Times 'Dunn wears his erudition lightly and writes clearly and freshly about some of politics' most venerable questions... Blows a gust of fresh air through the cobwebbed byways of political thought' John Gray, Independent
Product Description
Why does democracy, both as a word and an idea, linger so large in the political imagination today? John Dunn charts its slow but insistent metamorphosis from its roots in Ancient Greece to its overwhelming triumph in the years since 1945. Setting the People Free is an account of this extraordinary idea and its evolution.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Setting-People-Free-Story-Democracy/dp/1843542110

Also The Proud Tower by barbara Tuchman


"THE LAST government in the Western world to possess all the attributes of aristocracy in working condition took office in England in June of 1895..."

Editorial Reviews
Product Description
"The diplomatic origins, so-called, of the War are only the fever chart of the patient; they do not tell us what caused the fever. To probe for underlying causes and deeper forces one must operate within the framework of a whole society and try to discover what moved the people in it."
--Barbara W. Tuchman
The fateful quarter-century leading up to the World War I was a time when the world of Privilege still existed in Olympian luxury and the world of Protest was heaving in its pain, its power, and its hate. The age was the climax of a century of the most accelerated rate of change in history, a cataclysmic shaping of destiny.
In The Proud Tower, Barbara Tuchman concentrates on society rather than the state. With an artist's selectivity, Tuchman bings to vivid life the people, places, and events that shaped the years leading up to the Great War: the Edwardian aristocracy and the end of their reign; the Anarchists of Europe and America, who voiced the protest of the oppressed; Germany, as portrayed through the figure of the self-depicted Hero, Richard Strauss; the sudden gorgeous blaze of Diaghilev's Russian Ballet and Stravinsky's music; the Dreyfus Affair; the two Peace Conferences at the Hague; and, finally, the youth, ideals, enthusiasm, and tragedy of Socialism, epitomized in the moment when the heroic Jean Jaurès was shot to death on the night the War began and an epoch ended.
"Tuchman [was] a distinguished historian who [wrote] her books with a rare combination of impeccable scholarship and literary polish. . . . It would be impossible to read The Proud Tower without pleasure and admiration."
--The New York Times
"Tuchman proved in The Guns of August that she could write better military history than most men. In this sequel, she tells her story with cool wit and warm understanding, eschewing both the sweeping generalizations of a Toynbee and the minute-by-minute simplicisms of a Walter Lord."
--Time

From the Publisher
THE PROUD TOWER by Barbara Tuchman examines the Western World of approximately 100 years ago. Technologically the world was a very different from today, but the strifes between economic groups and among nations bears many similarities to our own time. Tuchman examines the economic, social, political, and technological world of the period 1890-1914. By this period, the United States had become an important player in world affairs. The Haymarket Affair in Chicago fueled the development of international anarchism which led to the assasinations of political figures in Russia, Italy, France and lastly President McKinley in the United States. Tuchman's unraveling of the the Dreyfus Affair is, in itself, worth the price of the book. In THE PROUD TOWER Tuchman describes the western world that exploded into The Great War (which she describes in THE GUNS OF AUGUST).







http://www.amazon.com/Proud-Tower-Portrait-Before-1890-1914/dp/0345405013

I guess it'snot only in America? ;)

tankgeezer
02-08-2010, 04:16 PM
Never got around to seeing Barbarella... Any good?
That depends on your tolerance for Jane Fonda. Its light in content, but long on naked Jane. Some parts are even Fellini like, tho the more part of it seems Russ Meyer

windrider
02-08-2010, 09:02 PM
Well, perhaps it isn't mainstream in the States...

Try this fella

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cecil,_3rd_Marquess_of_Salisbury

and these

http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=052156042X


I would recommend this book by John Dunn, I've read it several times



http://www.amazon.co.uk/Setting-People-Free-Story-Democracy/dp/1843542110

Also The Proud Tower by barbara Tuchman

http://www.amazon.com/Proud-Tower-Portrait-Before-1890-1914/dp/0345405013

I guess it'snot only in America? ;)

I have to agree on this... look at what's happening right now in Canada : we have
a minority government lead by the conservative party ( in fact, reform party which bought the conservative's name after they were wiped out with only 2 deputies elected) They rule as they were a majority.
They piss off everybody except alberta because they're pro-oil. They also don't believe in climate change, and they use an obscure rule (called abrogation, they need to ask the Queen representative to do so) to close down government so that others can't ask questions (and possibly get answers). What politicians will do to stay in power ?... Lie, cheat, start wars, throw balloons, the list is endless... Oh, yeah, they'll also kiss babys on TV when it's election time... Speaking of, the last federal election in Canada had the lowest participation rate in history ! No wonder.
I don't think the perfect goverment system is invented yet.

Many Thanks for the reading list,
I'll try to get my hands on these. Does The proud Tower has a mention of the Luddites ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite

short extract from wiki
History

The original Luddites claimed to be led by one "King Ludd" (also known as "General Ludd" or "Captain Ludd") whose signature appears on a "workers' manifesto" of the time. King Ludd was based on the earlier Ned Ludd, who some believed to have destroyed two large stocking frames in the village of Anstey, Leicestershire in 1779. At that time in England, machine breaking could lead to heavy penalties or even execution, which might have led some to use fictious names for protection.
Research by historian Kevin Binfield[1] is particularly useful in placing the Luddite movement in historical context – as organised action by stockingers had occurred at various times since 1675, and the present action had to be seen in the context of the hardships suffered by the working class during the Napoleonic Wars.


The stocking frame
The movement began in Nottingham in 1811 and spread rapidly throughout England in 1811 and 1812. Many wool and cotton mills were destroyed until the British government suppressed the movement. The Luddites met at night on the moors surrounding the industrial towns, practising drills and manoeuvers, and often enjoyed local support. The main areas of the disturbances were Nottinghamshire in November 1811, followed by the West Riding of Yorkshire in early 1812 and Lancashire from March 1813. Battles between Luddites and the military occurred at Burton's Mill in Middleton, and at Westhoughton Mill, both in Lancashire. It was rumoured at the time that agents provocateurs employed by the magistrates were involved in provoking the attacks.[citation needed] Magistrates and food merchants were also objects of death threats and attacks by the anonymous King Ludd and his supporters. Some industrialists even had secret chambers constructed in their buildings, which may have been used as hiding places.[2]
"Machine breaking" (industrial sabotage) was subsequently made a capital crime by the Frame Breaking Act (Lord Byron, one of the few prominent defenders of the Luddites, famously spoke out against this legislation), and 17 men were executed after an 1813 trial in York. Many others were transported as prisoners to Australia. At one time, there were more British troops fighting the Luddites than Napoleon I on the Iberian Peninsula.[3] Three Luddites, led by George Mellor, ambushed and assassinated a mill-owner (William Horsfall from Ottiwells Mill in Marsden) at Crosland Moor, Huddersfield, Mellor firing the shot to the groin which would, soon enough, prove fatal. Horsfall had remarked previously that he would "Ride up to his saddle in Luddite blood". The Luddites responsible were hanged in York, and shortly thereafter "Luddism" waned.

Digger
02-09-2010, 04:45 AM
Substitute 'Australian' for 'American' above and that pretty much sums up our major party politicians, and certainly all of those likely to be in leadership positions, who necessarily will form any government or opposition.

I wouldn't give them the steam off me piss and I wouldn't piss on any of them if they were on fire.

Every now and again there is an independent (i.e. not party) politician here who will stand courageously on matters of principle, but they're only one or two votes in a parliament where they usually don't matter among the major and minor parties. But they stand as useful reminders to how badly democracy works in a two party system, and how well the community could be served by honest and dedicated politicians freed of party discipline and the interests served by that discipline.

You must be getting old and weathered RS. You're being way too gentle on the bastards.;)

digger

Rising Sun*
02-09-2010, 04:51 AM
You must be getting old and weathered RS. You're being way too gentle on the bastards.;)

digger

Well, the Yanks aren't as robust as us. ;) :D

Digger
02-09-2010, 04:55 AM
Well, the Yanks aren't as robust as us. ;) :D

Are you itching for a fight?;)

digger:army:

Rising Sun*
02-09-2010, 06:24 AM
Are you itching for a fight?;)

digger:army:

Nah, not with the Yanks.

They're too well fed and there's too many of them.

Plus they have very liberal gun laws over there, which tends to keep people in line because you never know when you're facing a loony with a concealed weapon and a dozen magazines.

(My wife faced a loony with a concealed weapon and a dozen magazines in America some years ago, but he exposed his weapon and then a dozen porn magazines fell out of his overcoat. The police charged him with indecent exposure and littering.)

windrider
02-10-2010, 01:31 PM
Here's one for all Sarah Palin fans :

Sarah Palin Goes to Opryland and We Can't Stop Talking About It

By Jeff Woods in Politics (http://blogs.nashvillescene.com/pitw/politics/), Woods (http://blogs.nashvillescene.com/pitw/woods/)
Sun., Feb. 7 2010 @ 8:42AM
http://blogs.nashvillescene.com/pitw/oie_sarah_hand.jpg

Scandal of the evening: the scribbling on Sarah Palin's palm. ​
The chattering class truly does love to chatter about Sarah Palin. She was the life of the tea party Saturday night, and all the blogging and tweeting about her big Opryland appearance is making Pith's head spin.
She's lost weight, hasn't she? Maybe she's chopping wood (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/02/sarah-palin-watch-she-looks-li.html?wprss=44) to stay in shape. Did you see her fabulous strands of pearls? And that small pin in her lapel? It had two flags--could you tell?--one for Israel and one for the USA.
But what was that scribbled on the palm of her hand? And you thought she was so clever and off the cuff during the Q&A after her speech. Hah! Some eagle-eyed tweeter discovered she was reading little notes she had written on her hand. Blow up the picture and you can make out the words "Energy", "Budget [crossed out] (Cuts)", "Tax" and "Lift American Spirits." Pith thinks it's endearingly folksy, but this HuffPo blogger is outraged (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stefan-sirucek/did-palin-use-crib-notes_b_452458.html):

Crib Notes? This potential presidential candidate and "movement" leader was using crib notes to answer basic questions? This would mean: A) That she knew the questions beforehand and the whole thing was a farce. (Likely.)
and
B) That she still couldn't answer the previously agreed-upon questions without a little extra help.
If true, this is supremely rich coming immediately after a speech in which Palin took a shot at President Obama for using a teleprompter to read his prepared speeches.

As for the ultimate meaning of the speech itself, which included many memorable new lines and a lot of the same conservative pablum, there's much disagreement. Is she running for president or not? That's all we need to know. Newsweek's Daniel Stone (http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thegaggle/archive/2010/02/06/why-sarah-palin-won-t-be-running-for-president.aspx) thinks Sarah was so polarizing that this looks like the beginning of the end of her presidential ambitions.

Elections are won and lost in the middle, not on the extremes. And Palin's fiery rebuke of Washington may have firmed her base, but it did little to widen her appeal to moderates and independents, two groups without which she'd have a real tough time passing the threshold of electoral votes. (At one point, she even mocked the majority of voters who voted for President Obama, asking them "How's that hopey changey thing working for you now?") Which is to say that electorally speaking, tonight's speech may have been a self-inflicted wound for Palin, offering ammo to opponents to argue that she's simply too far right and too niche to win widespread support for national office. Speeches like this make the people who love Palin love her even more, and the people who don't ever more certain why they don't. In other words, Palin further polarized herself to the American public.
Is that hope? Nope. For that, we must go to the Atlantic's Marc Ambinder (http://politics.theatlantic.com/2010/02/sarah_palin_gave_a_campaign_speech.php), who's pretty sure Sarah's going for it. "Sarah Palin gave a campaign speech," he writes. "And that's pretty much all you need to know. So much of a campaign speech was it that I am revising upward my estimate of the chances she runs for president in 2012."

It looks like Ambinder is right on. Sarah tells Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/02/07/palin-willing-obama/) she "would be willing" to challenge Obama in 2012.

tankgeezer
02-10-2010, 02:52 PM
RS Quote: (My wife faced a loony with a concealed weapon and a dozen magazines in America some years ago, but he exposed his weapon and then a dozen porn magazines fell out of his overcoat. The police charged him with indecent exposure and littering.)

After which arrest, they dutifully confiscated the magazines, and burned them . (indelibly into their minds). Yep, you may encounter such troubles in the US, but most of the police are pretty good guys...:mrgreen:

Panzerknacker
02-11-2010, 05:52 PM
Armored bulldozer blitzkrieg, a good reason to carry and antitank rifle in your car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlZh9-NQEyI&feature=fvw

tankgeezer
02-11-2010, 11:07 PM
I was kinda wishing I had been in the area then....(as long as they buy the ammo....) Though the best way would have been to make, and use a "daisy chain" linking several small bombs together on a cable, then pull the chain across the road just in front of the dozer from a safe position. Dozer tracks while robust, are not designed to deal with explosive devices, so should be broken if a 5 to 8 pd. charge is used. Thermite is also useful for this job, placed in a trench, and ignited, it will melt enough material to break the track, and halt the machine. As for the man inside, don't know if he was a dangerous loony, or a contemporary Guy Fawkes .

32Bravo
02-12-2010, 01:50 PM
I'll try to get my hands on these. Does The proud Tower has a mention of the Luddites ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite



No, it doesn't. The Luddites, as you are probably aware, were not really rebelling against the political system, but rather the increase in mechanisation which took production away from the traditional 'Cottage-industry' to the factories of the large conurbations creating a migration from the countyside to the large towns and cities where factories were growing up and creating the dynamics which led to the birth of the British, Industrial Revolution.

The chapters of The Proud Tower are:

The Patricians - England: 1895 to 1902;

The Idea and the Deed - The Anarchists: 1890 - 1914;

End of a Dream - USA: 1890 - 1903;

Give Me Combat - France: 1894-9;

The Steady Drummer - The Hague: 1899 - 1907;

Neroism is in the Air - Germany: 1890 - 1914;

Transfer of Power - England : 1902 - 11
and
The Death of Jaure's - The Socialists: 1890 - 1914.

This book is a fabulous prequil to The Guns of August, which deals with the run up to and the breakout of the war in August 1914, which is an absolute must read for anybody interested in the history of WW1.