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View Full Version : What's the Best/Your Favorite/Worst Contemporary Assault Rifle?



Nickdfresh
05-18-2008, 06:32 PM
After seeing Tony's great thread (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Assault.htm), I'm Just creating an opinion thread. Which CURRENT issue military rifle or "personal weapon" or whatever is the most effective, and has the best reputation? Or just looks the sharpest?

Or is this silly because there is little real usable differences between military firearms. But mention a weapon, give it's purported strengths and weaknesses and why you think it deserves it reputation. Then maybe, the opposite. Which one is notable for a high rate of failures or lacking durability?

I guess I'm going to select a weapon I don't really know that much about. The Heckler and Koch G36, but I think the weapon looks pretty cool and I recall the first time I saw it was footage from Kosovo where two Serb gun attempted to attack a Bundeswehr column in a Yugo, (a very bad choice) and were peppered with rifle and MG3 fire. I almost felt sorry for them as they were left to bleed to death...

Anyways, it's pretty high tech looking and H&K seem to make exceptional weapons:

http://www.jb370.de/data/clanky/g36/G36.jpg

More specs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_G36


I just think it's cool. I have also heard only good things about it with one exception. But I can't recall the specific complaint...

Panzerknacker
05-18-2008, 09:14 PM
guess I'm going to select a weapon I don't really know that much about. The Heckler and Koch G36, but I think the weapon looks pretty cool and I recall the first time I saw it was footage from Kosovo where two Serb gun attempted to attack a Bundeswehr column in a Yugo, (a very bad choice) and were peppered with rifle and MG3 fire. I almost felt sorry for them as they were left to bleed to death...

A video of the incident.
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=nlkE8xUBfN8

That one of the attackers could move after being hit so many times explain very well why I dont like the .223 caliber.

RifleMan20
05-18-2008, 10:51 PM
I do love the look of the H&K G36 espicially the G36C which is right here (I think this is a airsoft gun)

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/6249/g36cqq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The G36C is the short barreled version of the regular G36, using a 5.56 NATO round and great weapon as I see it. Still the AK47 and Variants are one of the best assualt rifle chocies still. The M16A4 is a nice choice but its not my favorite, I like the M4 better. The Tavor is pretty cool gun too using a bullpup design and a pretty high rate of fire, MTAR21 is the smaller version which is said to be extreamly compact heres a pic

This I think is the CTAR21, almost like the MTAR21 which practilly mean the same thing (C in the CTAR means compact while the M in MTAR means micro)
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/3044/800pxtavorlatrunexhibitjh7.jpg
The Tavor uses the 5.56 NATO round and has a rate of speed up to 900 m/s

RifleMan20
05-18-2008, 11:02 PM
And wow those serbs or watever they are got pwned, they had a tank on them and their car was shot hundreds of times

tankgeezer
05-18-2008, 11:56 PM
dont know if it was best or worst, but Calico had produced at least a proto of an infantry weapon along the lines of a crook of the elbow carbine, like the CAR-15-16, it was chambered for a new cartrige of 4.5 to 5 m.m. and had a magazine capacity of 100 rds. Though it wasnt adopted as far as I know, it was a good idea, and would have been better if conbined with a small bore grenade launcher.

pdf27
05-19-2008, 01:24 AM
I actually rather like the L85A2 (short, goes bang when you pull the trigger, great sling). The FN F2000 looks rather promising too.

gumalangi
05-19-2008, 04:58 AM
i like old sturdy G3,.. the G3 Canadian SAS looks pretty cool,.

*sigh* i can't attach any picture

Drake
05-19-2008, 08:28 AM
I'm with Gumalangi there, I like that weapon, though it is technically a full battle rifle (7.62x51 Nato).
G3 was the standard weapon when I was at the Bundeswehr and I had no probs controlling short auto bursts, never actually fired a full mag in auto, I kinda don't see much sense in that..

RifleMan20
05-19-2008, 02:25 PM
The H&K G3 is a good gun, it is the base design for the G36C, H&K makes some of the best weapons like a favorite the MP5. Heres some pics the G3

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1299/g3a3editho6.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1299/g3a3editho6.76b15d39d9.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=132&i=g3a3editho6.png)

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/9424/2yppiplz5b15dur0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/635/g3hkriflebigpk8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Bother that free sign up thing

Panzerknacker
05-19-2008, 05:57 PM
The FM FAL for me, when you hit one with that he goes down, and stay down.

http://i32.tinypic.com/2iiiamc.jpg

RifleMan20
05-20-2008, 06:21 PM
Looks like a mixure of a G3 and a FNC

HAWKEYE
05-20-2008, 10:43 PM
I know they aren't technically "assault rifles" but I like them all.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/Hawkeye/mgshoot6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/Hawkeye/Mortar/collection.jpg

pdf27
05-21-2008, 12:02 PM
The H&K G3 is a good gun, it is the base design for the G36C
WTF? The G36 is a slightly modified AR18, and about the only thing it has in common with the G3 is that they both go bang when you pull the trigger.

Nickdfresh
05-21-2008, 09:08 PM
A video of the incident.
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=nlkE8xUBfN8

That one of the attackers could move after being hit so many times explain very well why I dont like the .223 caliber.

I believe there were MG3 machine-guns present (if memory serves correct). They may well have had a couple of 7.62mm rounds in them...

And I had a friend that had his kneecap shot off from what must have been a Dragunov 7.62X54mm rifle (I think the sniper had the center mass correct, but failed to account for the bullet's drop). I think he said he managed to empty two magazines from his M-4 in the general direction the shot came from in a woodland...

Panzerknacker
05-21-2008, 10:05 PM
I dont think so, note the MG 3 emplacement empty, seems that the loader was caught outside the Leopard 2.

http://i31.tinypic.com/1426lo4.jpg


But is possible the car had some 9 mm hits, note this guy shooting with a HK USP

http://i27.tinypic.com/2r5uq1e.jpg

RifleMan20
05-21-2008, 10:57 PM
WTF? The G36 is a slightly modified AR18, and about the only thing it has in common with the G3 is that they both go bang when you pull the trigger.

Can you send me a link that says that, I can't seem to find anything that says it is a slightly modified AR18, Doesn't look like the Germans took the AR18design though

Major Walter Schmidt
05-23-2008, 08:58 AM
I only know the Stg44 so.... I guess Stg44 with Vampyir IR scope.
There was also a Grenade Launncher Stg44 but that doesnt count, does it.

pdf27
05-23-2008, 12:36 PM
Can you send me a link that says that, I can't seem to find anything that says it is a slightly modified AR18, Doesn't look like the Germans took the AR18design though
Your Google-fu is weak, young Padawan!


From the technical point of view, the G36 is a radical departure from all the previous HK rifles, based on the proven G3 roller-delayed system. The G36 is a conventional gas operated, selective fire rifle, made from most modern materials and using most modern technologies.

The receiver and most of the others external parts of the G36 are made from reinforced polymers, with steel inserts where appropriate. The operating system appears to be a modification of the older American Armalite AR-18 rifle, with its short stroke gas piston, located above the barrel, square-shaped bolt carrier and the typical rotating bolt with 7 locking lugs.
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as14-e.htm

RifleMan20
05-23-2008, 04:48 PM
Your right, Sorry that I doubted you PDF

imi
06-22-2008, 08:51 AM
http://world.guns.ru/assault/hk417_12-2.jpg
Thank You Germany your the best :) (HK417)
http://world.guns.ru/assault/m4m203.jpg
best in close or long range,heavy firepower (M4)

pdf27
06-22-2008, 10:01 AM
5.56mm for long range or heavy firepower? WTF? 7.62mm belt-fed is an absolute minimum for that sort of thing, with a strong preference for .50 BMG.

imi
06-23-2008, 06:05 AM
I thinking about the differences the M16 and the M4 guns.Small caliber,but the rate of fire is 700 - 950 rounds per minute,and I think thats not bad,and when must choice I choice this two gun for assault

pdf27
06-23-2008, 07:13 AM
Cyclic rate of fire is irrelevant - you'll never control either weapon on fully automatic particularly well (it's OK at point blank, beyond that you need arms like a Gorilla). In any case after more than 2-3 magazines at that rate of fire you'll start burning things out.
It's very rare that you need fully automatic fire from a rifle anyway - ambushes, clearing positions, and that's about it. Not to mention the fact that soldiers rarely carry more than a few hundred rounds because ammo is so frikking heavy.

Man of Stoat
06-24-2008, 08:42 AM
HK derive their reputation from having an extremely good marketing department (probably inherited from Mauser!), however I have been remarkably unimpressed with everything they have produced that I have had my hands on. They seem to have a winner with the 416 and 417, given that they didn't design it from the ground up.

The G36, for instance, has an aura of myths surrounding it. A friend of mine has worked on them (mostly converting them to blank for the film industry), and his opinion is that they are wretched. Bear in mind that the only military customers for the damn things have been Germany and Spain. Hardly an overwhelming success. They are now practically giving them away and concentrating on the 416.

The roller locked rifles... where do we begin? Yes, the G3 works, but the ergonomics are terrible and the recoil heavy. Try one next to a FAL -- it is no contest. The 5.56 mm rifles with this system are badly balanced and marginal of function. All of these rifles fling your empty brass in a beautiful wide arc, glinting in the sunlight , telling the bad guys exactly where to aim at you.

MP 5 -- over engineered (it doesn't need the rollers or the fluted chamber, so why bother?), otherwise okay

USP -- bore line far too high, grip too big, and a safety catch/ de-cocking-lever combination which is ill thought out (flick the safety catch off with even a little bit too much enthusiasm and you activate the decocker.)

G36 -- they melt, the cocking handle is inaccessible, the safety catch out of reach of your thumb, and the sights/mounts are bespoke. Great idea...

UMP and its civilian equivalent -- like shooting with a brick in a Tupperware box.

They are most distinctly onto a winner with the 416 though -- an AR with the final gas related problems ironed out. They have been characteristically stupid with the civilian version though, since they have made it completely incompatible with the AR 15 rifles produced by everyone else on the planet. And they want €3500 for them , which really looks like they are charging €1500 for a gas piston...

imi
06-24-2008, 09:13 AM
http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_a3-2.jpg
That's another favourite of mine ;)

RifleMan20
06-24-2008, 11:58 PM
H&K416 looks promising, and its coming in an upcoming game, Battlefield Bad Company, I guess that's how H&K advertise now. Do you think it's going to fully replace the M4 or will the M4 still stay for another couple years.

imi
07-06-2008, 09:27 AM
RifleMan20:I think no need to replace the M4,its a good trusty gun
another trusty
http://www.hkpro.com/mp5sdtable.jpg

aerwulf6814
09-13-2008, 01:03 AM
do both the g36 and the l85a1 suffer the same problems, what was done to correct it and how does the new /improved product rate?

pdf27
09-13-2008, 05:05 AM
Nope, different problems. Not too sure what the problems with the G36 are (apart from the fact that it melts). The problem with the L85A1 was that it jammed all the time, and a number of parts (e.g. firing pins) broke regularly. H&K did a good job with the A2 rebuild, replacing/modifying a large number of parts, and the resulting rifle is very good indeed from a reliability point of view.

kamehouse
09-13-2008, 11:30 AM
I like the FAMAS.

RifleMan20
09-13-2008, 02:15 PM
The FAMAS, though, is HUGE. But I heard its performance was great.

Semper Fi
09-13-2008, 03:55 PM
I like the m16a4 rifle, to me it has more use in it then poeple think. But for a new rifle, i Like the FN Scar mkII it looks great with the 7,62x51mm round.

BadKharma
09-13-2008, 11:35 PM
I would go with the M-4 it is aged but effective.

kamehouse
09-14-2008, 03:57 AM
The FAMAS, though, is HUGE. But I heard its performance was great.
Yet very light.Hence the hefty price for one.I chose it because it is the only AR I ever shot with.It is also very easy to assemble/disassemble.I liked the fact you could modify it to make it a left hander weapon too.:mrgreen:

kallinikosdrama1992
01-20-2009, 02:05 PM
Any opinion about the hk-416 ??? Do you think it's better than the m-4 or the m-16 ??? Is this going to be the succesor of the colt series ???

Nickdfresh
01-20-2009, 03:00 PM
Well I might ask what your opinion of the HK-416 is. And why do you ask?

In short I doubt it will replace the M-4 since US special operations troops wanted it replaced with an FN carbine. This was briefly considered --then rejected-- and some improvements were made on the M-4. The US military probably some years off from deciding on the M-16 series' successor due to the protracted Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan where the M-16 performs well enough...

Note: folding this into an existing thread on contemporary military rifles...

flamethrowerguy
01-20-2009, 03:43 PM
Actually I find it amusing that Heckler&Koch entitled a potential M4 respectively M16 successor "416".

pdf27
01-20-2009, 04:48 PM
The HK416 probably won't be procured, but I'd say it's a pretty good bet that a gas piston mod to the AR15 will be in service within a few years. It isn't rocket science.

Schuultz
01-21-2009, 09:18 AM
I'm actually surprised at all the harsh criticism of the G36.
Granted, I never fired it, but my brother, who's in the Bundeswehr, obviously has, and even though he is qualified with the Famas, M16, M4, Sig552 and G36, he said of all of them, he likes and performs best with the G36.

Of course he hasn't been in a combat scenario with either of them yet, but still.

And Stoat, when you mentioned its users you forgot quite a couple, really: ;)
UK (Spec Ops)
US (State Police)
Sweden
Thailand
Poland
Norway
Netherlands
Italy
Ireland
Greece
France (GIGN & RAID)
Australian Police
Canadian Police
Finland

and a couple more...

pdf27
01-21-2009, 12:38 PM
And pdf, when you mentioned its users you forgot quite a couple, really: ;)
UK (Spec Ops)
US (State Police)
Sweden
Thailand
Poland
Norway
Netherlands
Italy
Ireland
Greece
France (GIGN & RAID)
Australian Police
Canadian Police
Finland

and a couple more...
Errrr... I don't recall mentioning G36 users, that was Stoaty. And I know for a fact that UKSF do NOT use G36s - they use Dimarco C7/C8s. The UK police forces use G36s, largely because the L85 was no longer in production when they wanted a 5.56mm rifle. Beyond that it would pretty much have come down to price...

Schuultz
01-21-2009, 12:46 PM
My bad, I meant Stoat :D

And I think the SpecOps things is probably depending on the unit/individual, probably not the best example.

Dixie Devil
01-22-2009, 07:45 AM
No one has brought up the AK-47 family yet? It certainly isn't the best looking or most accurate assault rifle but it is hard to beat on reliability and combat effectiveness (in the right hands).

Man of Stoat
01-22-2009, 08:42 AM
And Stoat, when you mentioned its users you forgot quite a couple, really: ;)
UK (Spec Ops) WRONG - C7/C8
US (State Police) NOT MIL - DOESN'T COUNT
Sweden SPECIALIST USE ONLY, ARMY = BOFORS AK5
Thailand SPECIALIST USE ONLY
Poland SPECIALIST / POLICE USE ONLY
Norway ONE SPECIALIST NAVAL UNIT, ARMY G3 & 416
Netherlands SEVERAL POLICE FORCES, APPARENTLY... ARMY= c7/c8
Italy SPECIALIST / POLICE USE ONLY
Ireland ONE UNIT ONLY
Greece ORDER CANCELLED. G3 STAYS IN USE
France (GIGN & RAID)
Australian Police OOOOH, POLICE AGAIN
Canadian Police OOOOH, POLICE AGAIN
Finland BORDER GUARD RESPONSE UNITS

and a couple more...


Remind me, which countries have it as a standard/major issue in their armies?

Richie B
01-22-2009, 09:47 AM
No one has brought up the AK-47 family yet? It certainly isn't the best looking or most accurate assault rifle but it is hard to beat on reliability and combat effectiveness (in the right hands).

Having just read this thread for the first time I too was going to mention the AK family.

Certainly well used (and abused) all over the world. Easy to strip and not too many bits to lose when stripped.

May not have the modern appearance of the G36/FAMAS/Steyr AUG weapons familys but a weapon still going strong after 50 + years must have something going for it.

Richie

MJ1
07-18-2012, 10:15 PM
I like the HK rifles.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/4e743896.jpg

The wife has one in .223/5.56mm. She hits cans and steel fall downs at 300 yards. Even lets me shoot it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/332fa06d.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/f338aa52.jpg

JR*
07-19-2012, 04:35 AM
The standard assault rifle used by the Irish Defence Forces is the Steyr AUG. The Army Ranger Wing (our Special Forces Unit) uses Steyr AUG 2 and 3, along with a range of additional dangerous kit including a number of HK weapons. For what it's worth. JR.

flamethrowerguy
07-19-2012, 05:06 AM
The standard assault rifle used by the Irish Defence Forces is the Steyr AUG. The Army Ranger Wing (our Special Forces Unit) uses Steyr AUG 2 and 3, along with a range of additional dangerous kit including a number of HK weapons. For what it's worth. JR.

Steyr AUG? Reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKv6GQvyWW8

downwithpeace
07-20-2012, 06:42 PM
The standard assault rifle used by the Irish Defence Forces is the Steyr AUG. The Army Ranger Wing (our Special Forces Unit) uses Steyr AUG 2 and 3, along with a range of additional dangerous kit including a number of HK weapons. For what it's worth. JR.

Read over on boards that the standard rifle was due for or planned to be upgraded to the AUG 3.