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View Full Version : Sinking of HMS Coventry.



Pánzon
03-18-2008, 04:55 PM
Hello everybody,

I would like to leave you with the links to a series of videos in YouTube that develop the attack on HMS Broadsword and HMS Coventry, with the result of the sinking of the later.

It is made over what Captain Hart- Dyke, of the Coventry wrote in his books 4 weeks of May.

At least two of the attacking pilots have seen this material so far. I really think we can talk about it. It is a very moving documentary, with the "story" told by Capt. Hart- Dyke himself and several other members of the crew.

Please do not botter in looking into the "comments" to the videos, some people that visits YouTube seem to have two brain cells in action only.

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=XQVZRhNtqHw
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=elcMaOmgjgE&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=flsL4iQdihQ&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=flsL4iQdihQ&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=rQuPDWYBbkg&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=dvNMlCFQG9w&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=pC2EoDOl8Kc&feature=related

You are suppossed to watch them in the same order as they appear.

Receive my warmes regards you all.

Pánzon

1000ydstare
03-20-2008, 03:03 AM
Not too bad a video, the ones I've watched so far.

I can't understand most of the comments, but some comments are by losers who don't know what they are talking about. You'll find that when the smoke clears the combatents (ie the Argie pilots and the British sailors) would not make such comments or laugh about death, injury and destruction.

But that is the loss of those who make such comments. That they would/will never put themselves to the ultimate test. It often puzzles for a short time how former combatants can be so friendly years after the event. It is easy to understand however, as they have so much in common.

HMS Coventry, incidentaly, was the number one Argentine plane killer up until the point she was sunk.

Rising Sun*
03-20-2008, 05:05 AM
It often puzzles for a short time how former combatants can be so friendly years after the event. It is easy to understand however, as they have so much in common.


What I find very distressing about seeing the common understanding and friendship between enemy combatants years after a war is the realisation that their dead comrades who can't participate in it died for something that wouldn't have occurred if politicians had managed a similar understanding of common interests between nations before launching their nations into war.

Panzerknacker
03-20-2008, 05:55 PM
Gracias Panzon, es un buen documental.

Pánzon
03-20-2008, 07:14 PM
Thank you all for the comments on the videos passed to me by a friend.

With regards to the friendship among former combatants...... I see it natural...... the combatants, except the Argentine conscripts were proffesional soldiers......

One bit of the doc reacalled my atention to the comments made by my friend Keith when he said that "they cried over their brothers of the sea" when hearing on the siking of the Belgrano.........on board Antelope. I was laughed about when said that, but apparently, not only Keith and his shipmates felt sorry for the destiny of the crew.

Profesional soldiers are also persons, and a mixture of "it can happen to me tomorrow" and genuine simpathy for the destiny of the crew of the sunk ship.

Every Argentine pilot regrets the death caused in the British ships, but itwas a battle and so things were.

Best regards.

Pánzon
03-20-2008, 07:16 PM
What I find very distressing about seeing the common understanding and friendship between enemy combatants years after a war is the realisation that their dead comrades who can't participate in it died for something that wouldn't have occurred if politicians had managed a similar understanding of common interests between nations before launching their nations into war.

Very good post Mr. Risig Sun.

Juan.

Panzerknacker
03-20-2008, 07:29 PM
One bit of the doc reacalled my atention to the comments made by my friend Keith when he said that "they cried over their brothers of the sea" when hearing on the siking of the Belgrano.........on board Antelope. I was laughed about when said that, but apparently, not only Keith and his shipmates felt sorry for the destiny of the crew.

My good...that poetry again. :roll:



Every Argentine pilot regrets the death caused in the British ships, but itwas a battle and so things were.



I think that phrase is redundant.

Sorry but I dont agree there. Do you had talked with every argentine pilot to said that ?

1000ydstare
03-21-2008, 03:00 AM
Panzerknacker, nothing personnel but you've never served, and you've never been in a combat situation.

Whilst in some wars the two sides will never reconcile (Japanese V British and Austrailian in WW2 for example) some will.

Apologies, but you will not know what you are talking about from books and a thinking how you would feel. The terror and adrenaline, the smoke and the smells, the sights and scenes, the screams of wounded and crackle of fires, the feel of dust and grit on your person. It changes you.

Panzerknacker
03-21-2008, 08:07 AM
Apologies, but you will not know what you are talking about from books and a thinking how you would feel. The terror and adrenaline, the smoke and the smells, the sights and scenes, the screams of wounded and crackle of fires, the feel of dust and grit on your person. It changes you.

Yea, yea, all that but I dont remember all argentines pilots saying they regret they actions.

I attend to a conference of Pablo Marcos Carballo one of the men who attacked the Royal Navy the 25th may and after nearly 2 hours of talking he said nothing about this matters, somebody asked him what he felt about the chileans actions in war and he told was very angry about the conduct of our neighbors but there was no hard feelings...that is it.

And in any case...why they should feel sorry aniway ?, they were just fullfilling his duty as the british did.

Rising Sun*
03-21-2008, 08:36 AM
And in any case...why they should feel sorry aniway ?, they were just fullfilling his duty as the british did.

Isn't it possible to perform one's duty but regret what one had to do in performing it?

Isn't that one of the great human and moral problems of war, that people do appalling things which are necessary according to their national or political loyalties but which may haunt them and the people to whom they did it, and their descendants, forever?

Would any of it happen if everyone subscribed to a higher duty than nationalism, such as a general commitment to humanitarian principles?

Panzerknacker
03-21-2008, 08:49 AM
I could be wrong but I believe the usual missions in war consisted to destroy the enemy within the limits of the war laws.

We can do all the moral, ethical and psichological considerations we like ( and I dont like in this case) but in the cramped cockpit of an A-4C wich try desperately of not being wiped out by flak or the red lighted combat room of a missile destroyer who is about to be attacked there is no much space for that.

Panzon is trying to give a tears soaked image of the all the combattants in the Malvinas war wich only exist in his imagination.

1000ydstare
03-21-2008, 09:47 AM
I could be wrong but I believe the usual missions in war consisted to destroy the enemy within the limits of the war laws.

We can do all the moral, ethical and psichological considerations we like ( and I dont like in this case) but in the cramped cockpit of an A-4C wich try desperately of not being wiped out by flak or the red lighted combat room of a missile destroyer who is about to be attacked there is no much space for that.

Panzon is trying to give a tears soaked image of the all the combattants in the Malvinas war wich only exist in his imagination.

Different people/different situations. Panzon is not claiming that a pilot dropping bombs on a ship is thinking of the ramifications.

A fighter jock requires a fair bit of aggression and nerve to carry out his job. So you are correct, whilst he is flying in and engaged he wont be having too many thoughts about it.

On the way back, they thoughts may creep in. And certainly after he has landed when he tries to sleep.

Same with the bayonet wielding soldier. In the assault there wont be pity. But come the aftermath, the eyes of the enemy combattent he kebabed will come back.

The crews on the boats going down South, on hearing about the Belgrano, would have had every sympathy. They may have been thinking about the same fate.

Servicemen and women are often very adept at putting such thoughts in to boxes when needed, like when in combat. The boxes can be opened again when the boredem returns.

Soldiers in wars often think of the other side. In 1982, many British would have been thinking of the others, because many soldiers going down there would have wondered what the fuss was about. They wouldn't harbour the Argies any grudges.

For the Argentines, they would have been thinking would have been split. Some the same as the British, some would have been high on national fervour.

You seem to be under the delusion that your pilots (or any serviceman or woman) is some sort of cold killing machine, who calmly or exaltingly drops bombs on other people and hands out death and destruction.

Doesn't happen mate.

All servicemen will be caught up with by their service, how they deal with it will mean the difference between them coming to terms with it, or putting a bullet in their heads.

I think you will find on both sides there are many who have chosen the latter.

Argie and Brit Vets have met each other since the Falklands, you will find this would not be possible if they were still giving out war whoops, about killing each other.

Rising Sun*
03-21-2008, 10:06 AM
Argie and Brit Vets have met each other since the Falklands, you will find this would not be possible if they were still giving out war whoops, about killing each other.

Which brings us to the point that those who take nations to war and those who still fly the national military flag aggressively long after the event are often those who have the least experience of war.

Their ignorance, or lack of humanity, allows them to have that enthusiasm.

gumalangi
03-21-2008, 08:57 PM
sorry for the off-topic reply,.
but the following link,. really showed how the US pilot enjoying burning the Victor Charlie,. and it was fantastic view seeing them (VC) running in fire.

I guess not every combatants could felt the feel of their counterparts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXIXa-PXGYI&feature=related

1000ydstare
03-22-2008, 02:32 AM
FFS

Read the posts, mongs, or better yet join up so you can taste the cordite yourself, then get back to me.

Pánzon
04-02-2008, 10:08 AM
I attend to a conference of Pablo Marcos Carballo one of the men who attacked the Royal Navy the 25th may and after nearly 2 hours of talking he said nothing about this matters, somebody asked him what he felt about the chileans actions in war and he told was very angry about the conduct of our neighbors but there was no hard feelings...that is it.


Helo Panzerknacker,

I do...happen to be a "pen pal" with the nowadays Commodore (R) FAA Pablo Marcos Carballo, I think he is the only Argentine alive with the medal of the Argentine Congress to "Heroic valour in combat". He signs his letters to me as " Your friend Pablo"..... So I think I know something about what he thinks of his then enemy.

He has visited Britain in several oportunities and whenever we "talk" about the war, he shows his deep respect for his adversaries and I am more than sure that he regrets the loss of life on both sides..

With respect of the "tear soaking type of war" that seems to inhabit my mind...... I can tell you that Com. Carballo is also a Pen Pal of Keith and his "poetry" and he does not consider it "poetry" at all either....... and he was a combat pilot, who went to "make war" one day yes, and one day no, from the 1st of May to practically the last day...... remember he was the leader of the flight that attacked the landing in Pleasant Bay, at the end almost of the battle, having to go back due to "Scooter" malfunction leaving the then Lt. Cachón in comand with the legendary "Llevelos a la gloria" ( lead them into the glory).

He also was the flight leader of the HMS Coventry attack...... The HMS Antelope...... Commodore Carballo must have 7 lives at least....

Good example Com. Carballo, he is a sort of living enciclopaedia of the air war in 1982 South Atlantic........ remember....... one day yes, one day no.....against the Task Force....... he fought for his land with at least as much bravery as the British and allied pilots fought with the Luftwaffe when the "Battle for England" in WWII.

Many thanks for the answers to the post and I am glad you guys liked the videos and I am sorry for not coming back before, for some reason, the alerts to postings were not coming through so I neglected it for some time.

Cheers,

Pánzon.

PS: It may seem funny, but a few years ago, the then Commander of the whole RAF, Air Marshall Squire ( I seem to remember), visited Argentina and was lodged at the FAA "Hotel" in Buenos Aires..... he visited the FAA and he was even invited to a flight on a two seater Mirage with a pilot that was one of his enemies more than 20 years past then....

Flying against each other at some time........... having fun together in a combat plane more than 20 years later.

Panzerknacker
04-02-2008, 10:39 AM
He has visited Britain in several oportunities and whenever we "talk" about the war, he shows his deep respect for his adversaries and I am more than sure that he regrets the loss of life on both sides..


I repeat I never heard him or read him saying that was sorry about the damage caused or that he cried ( that would be simply ridiculous) when hit a enemy warship.

The only that I know for sure give some kind of apologies was Cachon. He had a meeting with the HMS Sir Galahand survivors.

Pánzon
04-02-2008, 02:17 PM
Panzer.........

In the name of God almighty........... where did I post that Commodore Carballo ever "cried"? Altough I am sure he did after every mission, when he had to face the loss of friends and "pupils" of him.......

Those were the words of a survivor of the Antelope....... from the hearth and not trying to pose as the valiant seaman at all.... and in confidence......... and his says were confirmed by a co-forumer of ours.........

Pánzon.

PS: You have not "heard him" say nothing about remorses........... It is plain by now that you do not know Com Carballo...... he is the closest and more genuine person........... a real gentleman...... Only problem is he hates politicians...... he did not tell me that, but I can read between lines. He is a soldier and they are not "killing machines", they are people that excelled in their profession and suddendly, found themselves in a very difficult situation......

Whenever you talk to him, he reminds you that he is not a politician, but a soldier....

If you want, I can make available to you his last conference in audio file....... he reffers to Keith´s history there.

And......... why a bit "hostile" to me? My Argentine brother?

Panzerknacker
04-02-2008, 06:36 PM
Only problem is he hates politicians......


¿ Acaso no los odiamos todos ? ;)

No soy hostil querido, simplemente no me gusta tu version endulzada de la guerra en las que todos se abrazan y besan con las armas humeantes en la mano. Ese es el panorama que hace rato estas intentando colocar, te apoye cuando te atacaron de forma gratuita pero ya esto es demasiado. ¿me entendes ahora ?

Pánzon
04-03-2008, 11:15 AM
¿ Acaso no los odiamos todos ? ;)

No soy hostil querido, simplemente no me gusta tu versión endulzada de la guerra en las que todos se abrazan y besan con las armas humeantes en la mano. Ese es el panorama que hace rato estas intentando colocar, te apoye cuando te atacaron de forma gratuita pero ya esto es demasiado. ¿me entendes ahora ?

Entiendo tu posición y la respeto, cada uno tiene derecho a mirar hacia el pasado y el futuro con su propia visión.

I understand your position and I respect it, each individual has the right to see towards the past and future through his own lenses.

Saludos.

Lone Ranger
04-05-2008, 04:42 AM
Panzon,

Nice to see you around good buddy.

pulqui
03-24-2010, 04:21 PM
I could be wrong but I believe the usual missions in war consisted to destroy the enemy within the limits of the war laws.

We can do all the moral, ethical and psichological considerations we like ( and I dont like in this case) but in the cramped cockpit of an A-4C wich try desperately of not being wiped out by flak or the red lighted combat room of a missile destroyer who is about to be attacked there is no much space for that.

Panzon is trying to give a tears soaked image of the all the combattants in the Malvinas war wich only exist in his imagination.

Talk for yourself Panzer. For me the brits think of themselves as the moral guardians of the world, but are the weapon providers of half of the african dictators. They, even provided bombers and ships to Argentina before the war.
So don´t act like a fake Mother Theresa of Calcutta. If we had the balls to attack the brits 28 years ago, we can´t now play it down, and try to kiss their asses.
Brits will love us again, when they see they can make business with us again.

leccy
03-24-2010, 05:04 PM
pulqui

For me the brits think of themselves as the moral guardians of the world, but are the weapon providers of half of the african dictators. They, even provided bombers and ships to Argentina before the war.

I seem to see more AK's, RPG7's and T55 or PT76 (or their chinese equivalents) in use in Africa than SA80 or SLR, Garl Gustav and Cheiftan or Centurion or even CVRT series.

The Meteor (fighter) and lancaster/lincoln bombers were provided long before the falklands (most aircraft were french or american)

Rising Sun*
03-25-2010, 08:37 AM
Talk for yourself Panzer.

I think you may find that PK will indeed talk for himself.

And I rather hope he will.


For me the brits think of themselves as the moral guardians of the world,

Well, that's a refreshing change.

I thought the Americans had appointed themselves to that position.

We'd be better off with British moral leadership. For a start, unlike the Yanks, the Brits don't have the loony conservatives supporting anyone who supports Israel to ensure the Second Coming and other Biblical notions which have distorted relations with the Middle East for the past half century or so.


but are the weapon providers of half of the african dictators.

Would this be during the Angolan butchery, where most people think that the USSR was the main provider of weapons?

Where would this fit with Nkomo's Soviet and Mugabe's China alliances in Rhodesia / Zimbabwe's wars?

Or would this claim about supplying arms to half of African dictators be a little disingenuous when one recognises that Russia isn't exactly lily white in this area? http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45598


They, even provided bombers and ships to Argentina before the war.

Britain did not, however, supply Argentina with the Belgrano.

It came from America.

So why is it acceptable for America to supply Argentina with the Belgrano but it was wrong for Britain to supply Argentina and other nations with other items?


So don´t act like a fake Mother Theresa of Calcutta. If we had the balls to attack the brits 28 years ago, we can´t now play it down, and try to kiss their asses.
Brits will love us again, when they see they can make business with us again.

I'm guessing you're about fifteen years old and full of uninformed conviction and righteous anger about things you do not understand and have not bothered to study before expressing your views.

Try to inform yourself before your next post. Because, so far, you're just looking like a nationalistic idiot with ants in your pants about something you don't understand.