Weapons From WWII In Service Today?

[Nickdfresh]

What weapons systems from WWII are still in service? And let's count even fire arms, mines, AT, and ordinance that has gone significant upgrades and redesigns, but are at least related to a weapons system program started during WWII...

I've fired the venerable .50 caliber machine gun, and saw Prince Harry squeezing off a few rounds in some stock footage shown relating to his story. So I guess that would be one example...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2008/02/28/uprinceh2.jpg

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/28/nharry228.xml

So, are many of these guns just rebuilt platforms used in WWII?

[Rising Sun*]

My understanding is that one that isn't is the .45 M1911 / ACP, which probably should be around in a modified form instead of Glocks and the like.

If only because it's a bloody big lump of metal that's handy in a trench fight.

Also, it looks bloody nice. :D

Then again, I couldn't hit a tree stump with it at about twenty five or so yards a long time ago. But the tree stump looked bloody frightened! Not as frightened as I did aged about thirteen or so and previously limited to .22. rifles. :D

This is probably way out of date, but about ten years ago I attended an Army open day where they were firing M60s when I thought our Australian army had gone all Austrian on Steyrs and the like.

Spoke with a sergeant who said, not in as many words, Sir, because sergeants call civilians Sir when they don't just after the civilians have got into uniform, but all the GPMG's we tried are shit and the M60 is the best we've got, and that Steyr is a piece of shit if it ever gets into battle. Which is what has been said by some of the few Australians - not Austrians - who've actually used one in something passing for battle, and a very experienced Australian armourer whose opinion was ignored by the big wigs.

The sergeant and I confirmed our view that the 7.62 SLR is a very good weapon for pissing the enemy off and that anyone who can't shoot over open sights shouldn't be in the army. The sergeant said that most soldiers he'd met didn't know what open sights were, and that was just the male recruits. I think that the sergeant, unlike me, might actually have fired various weapons at people with sufficient results to form a base of practical information about what rounds are effective in the field. Which is the last thing the procurement wallahs would want, given their glorious history of ignoring the opiniions of users over wankers in high positions. http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/13b-helicopter-project-dumped/2008/03/05/1204402556104.html

[pdf27]

If he reckoned that the M-60 was better than the FN-MAG (GPMG), then those he tried must have been in truly awful condition. The FN-MAG is an incomparably better weapon.

Edit: Various Indian units (mainly police I think) still use the Rifle, Short, Magazine, Lee-Enfield chambered in 7.62 x 51mm NATO and manufactured at the Ishapore arsenal. Not bad for a rifle that came in during IIRC the Boer war!

[Nickdfresh]

Interestingly, the US military has (mostly) done away with the M-60 GPMG in favor of the M249 MAG (the same Belgian gun used by many Euro armies, and the British one)...

The .45 does live on in some individual members armories in special ops meethinks, although probably improved versions with large mag capacities...

If he reckoned that the M-60 was better than the FN-MAG (GPMG), then those he tried must have been in truly awful condition. The FN-MAG is an incomparably better weapon.

I think we posted at almost the same time...

Edit: I meant the M240 MAG. The M249 is the SAW

http://www.arcent.army.mil/cflcc_today/2005/january/images/machine_gun.jpg

[Rising Sun*]

Just to be a pain in the arse, if you had to have a pain in the arse from a round hitting you in the standard military target area of the central body mass, which if accurately hit tends to bugger the heart and lungs, would you prefer a fairly low velocity M1911 or something a bit quicker?

And why?

In the end, does any of it make that much difference if somebody with a useful weapon uses it usefully?

[jacobtowne]

The M2 cal. .50 Browning machine gun is in service still, the longest serving weapon in the U.S. military (1920s?).

The Marine expeditionary force, IIRC, still uses the M1911A1 pistol.

JT

[mike M.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M18_Hellcat

Venezuelan Military Statistic as of 2006:

M18 Hellcat Tank Destroyer: approx. 75

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,334849,00.html

[the_librarian]

Here's a few I can think of...maybe modified quite a bit...maybe they don't count, but just a thought:

M3 "Grease Gun" (not very %$#@ accurate). We carried this weapon on our FA unit.

M35(A2) various models...yeah, the WW2 jobs were gas jobs, but still in use, course by now, they may all be in reserve units....gotta love those vaccum wipers! :)

Infamous World War II wooden barracks...ok, yeah, not a weapon per se, but I can bet most folks on the forum who ever served in the US military spent time in one! I just had to throw this one in for good measure.

[Rising Sun*]

Is the Ka Bar still in service with the USMC?

A very useful utility and fighting knife.

[tankgeezer]

Is the Ka Bar still in service with the USMC?

A very useful utility and fighting knife.
Yep, the K-Bar is timeless.

[Drake]

Well, the MG 3 is technically still an MG 42, adopted to use the 7,62mm NATO ammo.

[Nickdfresh]

Well, the MG 3 is technically still an MG 42, adopted to use the 7,62mm NATO ammo.

I forgot about that. In fact I was going to start a thread asking if there were any other improvements or modifications besides recalibrating it to take the NATO round....

[Drake]

Yeah, they made several over the times, the most well known is the reduction of the rate of fire and a lot of smaller modifications like changing the belt feed to allow for us belts etc. and this and that on various other parts, but I'm too lazy to translate them all from the german page I'm looking at right now :D
But it's really only minor modifications, there are actually still guns in the arsenal that are modified MG42 from wartime production but they are mothballed.

[snebold]

There are some US WWII built warships still around, in other nations navies. Taiwan and Mexico still had ex US wartime destroyers in service in 2006, I don´t know if they still do.

A few Shermans, M8/M20 (6x6) and T-34´s are often stated to remain in service in some countries in Africa and South America.

[pdf27]

There are some US WWII built warships still around, in other nations navies. Taiwan and Mexico still had ex US wartime destroyers in service in 2006, I don´t know if they still do.
Meh. The UK has still got one warship from before the US Revolutionary War in commissioned service!

[snebold]

Which one?

[Richie B]

Which one?

HMS Victory - launched in the 1760s.

Remains a commissioned Royal Navy albeit as a museum.

She is also the flagship of the Commander in Chief Naval Command.

She is saluted by all passing Royal Navy vessels.

re the original question - Browning Hi Power - excellent pistol - still in service around the world.

Richie

:cool:

[tankgeezer]

The P-38 can opener,,, still soldiering on,,,, (Burp) :)

[GliderInfantry]

The MP 43,44 Assault rife used by german soldiers in ww2i s not around now but it look like the soviets copy it to make the famous AK-47 it sure looks like the ak-47.

[Nickdfresh]

The MP 43,44 Assault rife used by german soldiers in ww2i s not around now but it look like the soviets copy it to make the famous AK-47 it sure looks like the ak-47.

Nope. It's not a direct copy, and it's not clear that one had much to do with the other...

[Nickdfresh]

HMS Victory - launched in the 1760s.

Remains a commissioned Royal Navy albeit as a museum.

She is also the flagship of the Commander in Chief Naval Command.

She is saluted by all passing Royal Navy vessels.

re the original question - Browning Hi Power - excellent pistol - still in service around the world.

Richie

:cool:

The U.S.S. Constitution (Old Iron Sides) is also still commissioned in the US Navy in the same vein...

[Egorka]

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6874/mp44bong500yc4.jpg http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/7457/mp43aq3.jpg

http://community.livejournal.com/ru_guns/776581.html

[Egorka]

The MP 43,44 Assault rife used by german soldiers in ww2i s not around now but it look like the soviets copy it to make the famous AK-47 it sure looks like the ak-47.
It only the general external ergonomics that are similar. The guts are operating with different principles.

[Richie B]

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6874/mp44bong500yc4.jpg

Now that's what I call a logistics nightmare.

How many different ammunition types ???

I make it six.:shock:

Richie

[Nickdfresh]

I'm not even sure how much reliable ammo there would be left for the MP44...

[Librarian]

Please, don’t worry my dear Mr. Nickdfresh: we are still producing those bullets here, in Serbia. If you wish, just ask the State ammunition factory „Prvi Partizan” in Užice for the article A-424, produced in caliber 7.92 x 33 Kurz, with a bullet type FMJ BT, and weight of 124 grains and don’t be bothered – standard army quality ammo will be put up for sale in a great distant foreign country over the ocean. :)

Here you have a direct link:

http://www.prvipartizan.com/rifle.php

I hope that you will just enjoy that Internet-tour!

[Nickdfresh]

Please, don’t worry my dear Mr. Nickdfresh: we are still producing those bullets here, in Serbia. If you wish, just ask the State ammunition factory „Prvi Partizan” in Užice for the article A-424, produced in caliber 7.92 x 33 Kurz, with a bullet type FMJ BT, and weight of 124 grains and don’t be bothered – standard army quality ammo will be put up for sale in a great distant foreign country over the ocean. :)

Here you have a direct link:

http://www.prvipartizan.com/rifle.php

I hope that you will just enjoy that Internet-tour!

Thank you my dear friend Librarian. As always, an informative and interesting post.

I can't imagine the ammo being as cheap as Kalashnikov 7.62X39mm though, as I know of only two guns that actually fired the ammo: the Volksgewehr, aside from :D..

[Major Walter Schmidt]

Up until 1956, the Isralis were using Nazy Mp40s...(what an irony) though replaced by UZIs.

[Nickdfresh]

Up until 1956, the Isralis were using Nazy Mp40s...(what an irony) though replaced by UZIs.

The Israelis used all sort of German weapons, and Germany actually supplied the Jewish state with substantial arms and for years was one of their bigger European champions. Of course collective guilt had much to do with it.

The MP40 was far from the only German weapon or ordinance used by the Israelis...

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/data/605/medium/d3b41b218eee1d618b5b490e166a8d11.jpg

[Major Walter Schmidt]

The Avia S.199 is not realy German but Chech. Avia made them from Messerschmitt parts lying around the factory.

[Major Walter Schmidt]

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6874/mp44bong500yc4.jpg

Now that's what I call a logistics nightmare.

How many different ammunition types ???

I make it six.:shock:

Richie

Do I see a Garand M1?

[HAWKEYE]

No but that is an M14 in the background.

[Kimura]

We still use swiss-built MG42 on tanks.

[imi]

Major Walter Schmidt:Sturmgewehr 44? oh,my heart...
MG42 in Bundeswehr
http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu/080626/image_popup_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg

[Firefly]

Meh. The UK has still got one warship from before the US Revolutionary War in commissioned service!

It would actually take an extreme situation in the least to prepare the Victory or war....

[Nickdfresh]

Do I see a Garand M1?

I too see the M-14. I think I know which rifle you mean, but it's not an M-1. I think it's an Italian made indirect copy that was conventionally magazine fed -- much like the M-14 was.

Incidentally, a lot of M-14s were sent to the old Somali Army in the 1970s and 80s as well as some other parts of Africa like the Sudan, where they're somewhat commonplace...

[Nickdfresh]

Major Walter Schmidt:Sturmgewehr 44? oh,my heart...
MG42 in Bundeswehr
http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu/080626/image_popup_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg

It's called an MG3 now...

[HAWKEYE]

I too see the M-14. I think I know which rifle you mean, but it's not an M-1. I think it's an Italian made indirect copy that was conventionally magazine fed -- much like the M-14 was.

You are thinking of the BM-59 Nick, but that's not what that is either....I'm not sure what it is

http://www.theothersideofkim.com/images/uploads/2005files/Beretta_BM62-01.jpg

I think it is French by the style but I can't find a reference to it...
Here is a photo of what I think it is , second rifle down:
http://images3.fotki.com/v35/photos/2/28682/357888/1010126_IMG-vi.jpg

[Man of Stoat]

Hawkeye,

Top to bottom:

Russian Tokarev SVT 40 7,62 x 54R . Slot in the butt is nonstandard, so perhaps a Finnish refurbishment .

Egyptian Hakim,8 mm Mauser. Nothing more than a re-chambered (see next one down):

Swedish Ljungmann AG42, 6.5 x 55 Swedish.

Belgian SAFN49. Could be.30-06,7 mm Mauser,8 mm Mauser, 7.65 mm Mauser,7 .62 mm NATO or even something more exotic. Forerunner of the FAL.

[imi]

Nice rifles Hawkeye

[HAWKEYE]

Oh, those aren't mine....these are mine::D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/Hawkeye/shoes.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/Hawkeye/28_11.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/Hawkeye/mgshoot6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/Hawkeye/SMG.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/Hawkeye/Mortar/collection.jpg

[Major Walter Schmidt]

I lik your Schmeisser and the luger is pretty cool.:D Nice BAR also...

[imi]

Hawkeye:nice collection!burglars are welcome in your house isn't it? :)

[HAWKEYE]

Sure if they get past that Sterling that is lying beside my bed every night... :-O

[imi]

When I would to choose for a secondary sleeping partner I vote BAR&the old 45 :D

[Major Walter Schmidt]

I heard its Illegal to own automatic weapons in the US.
Is it true?

[Richie B]

Herr Major

Have a look at this - loads more on YouTube.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wipVRs7r5Wk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wipVRs7r5Wk)

Richie

:mrgreen:

[imi]

Nickdfresh:any modification between (MG's) the two guns,looks like very similar!

[HAWKEYE]

I heard its Illegal to own automatic weapons in the US.
Is it true?

It is legal to own full auto weapons in the US if you register them through the ATF and pay a Tax on them (As long as your state is a Full auto compliant state).

Nickdfresh:any modification between (MG's) the two guns,looks like very similar!

I think the MG3 has a lower rate of fire and the caliber was changed to 7.62 NATO from 8MM.

[Nickdfresh]

It is legal to own full auto weapons in the US if you register them through the ATF and pay a Tax on them (As long as your state is a Full auto compliant state).

Isn't it called a "Class Four License?"

I think the MG3 has a lower rate of fire and the caliber was changed to 7.62 NATO from 8MM.

It was originally in 7.92mm. The rate of fire isn't really all that different and is still over 1000rpm...

I believe is has a few modifications, but is still almost identical to the MG42. The MG1 and MG2 are little more than recalibrated (to the NATO round) MG42s...

[HAWKEYE]

Nick, No there is no "license" that you have to get to own a Full Auto weapon. You are also not required to allow "spot inspections" in your home by the ATF at any time, that is a myth that stops some people from buying NFA weapons. The process is not really complicated, if you live in a state that allows ownership, state law supercedes Federal in this case, you have a couple of avenues to buy and register the weapon in your name. One is private ownership, you find the weapon and, depending on what form it's registered on, you send the ATF two sets of federal fingerprint cards, and two passport sized photos of yourself, these are for the FBI background check. The form you fill out along with these contain a box for your chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of your area to sign to say that there is no reason that you should be denied ownership. A certificate of compliance ( stating that you are a citizen of the US), and a check made out to the ATF for $200.00. The process takes between 8 weeks to 90 days or more to receive the Tax Stamp paperwork and then you can pick up your weapon from the Class III dealer or the individual who has possession of it. If the weapon in question is outside your state it must pass through the dealer, that can mean another $200.00 must be paid to the ATF to do that transfer, if it is in your home state then you can get it directly from the registered owner with only one transfer being done.
Avenue #2 is Corporate Ownership, in this you do not need the fingerprints, the photos or the CLEO sign-off. You send in the form and assign the weapon to yourself as the CEO of a corporation and $200.00 and the weapon is listed as corporate owned.

[SS Ouche-Vittes]

STG 44 is still in service in African Conflicts, there are pictures on the net.

[Hysteria__]

I vaguely recall seeing a picture somewhere of a Churchill tank in Iraq/Afghanistan, maybe someone has it in their collection.

[SS Ouche-Vittes]

Also captured PPSHH's were used by US forces modified with a red dot scope in Iraq
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6365/ppshld7.jpg

[Man of Stoat]

I think you'll find that that is someone taking the piss by balancing an EOtech on the top and a bit of lower hand guard on the bottom.

[christophe1992]

the tompson series are still in use for prisons, and in guerilla forces, even some police stations still have them.(in reserve)
the ppsh is also still in use in iraq, asia,....
mg42 is still in use on tanks or modyfied versions.
the mp40 is sometimes seen on conflicts.
stg44 in afrika.
and believe it or not even the m1 an m9 bazookas.
the reising m50,m55,m60 are still in use by police.( in reserve ofcourse
the 30. cal is still in use on some tanks. (not U.S.)
the m2hmg ofcourse great weapon but will soon be replaced.
the m1911 colt 45.acp
the browning hp (desined in 1935) We in Belgium still use them but they are crap.