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32Bravo
12-22-2007, 03:52 AM
As I was returning home from work yesterday evening, I decided to drop by the store in order to top up my drinks cabinet. I purchased a bottle of Bushmills Irish malt (of which I am particularly fond, and my current bottle is down to a half :( ), a bottle of Captain Morgan's spiced rum, a bottle of Appleton's spiced rum and a bottle of Jack Daniels. The whole lot came to £33 which was roughly about a half of the price I expected. I asked the lad that served me how much it was as I hadn't my reading glasses with me. He told me, and I said that it was less than I expected and that I'd be back for more later. :)

Anyway, when I reached home I found my glasses and checked the receipt. He hadn't charged for the Jack Daniels or the Appleton's. What do I do? Do I consider it a windfall and enjoy it? Do I return to the store and explain what happened - it isn't as if I can't afford to. My dilemma is that if I return and explain, the young chap might be in trouble for making the mistake in the first place - as you can see, I'm torn apart!

Rising Sun*
12-22-2007, 04:14 AM
Interesting and delicate moral question.

If I thought the kid would have it taken out of his pay, I'd be back like a shot to pay the right amount.

The same with a small business, where the owner will bear the loss out of his own pocket.

If it was a major corporation that was going to suffer the loss without the kid losing any skin, I'd stay mum and treat it as evening things up for the way the big corporations rip us off and overpay their bloated executives for doing sweet FA apart from running cartels and rigging markets, and paying bugger all tax as corporations while their executives have their snouts into every slimy tax evasion trough they can find. Ever noticed how when there's an error on the total in national chain stores, it's always in their favour? Ever noticed how executive salaries grow by 10 to 25% annually on a huge base but if the workers want a 2% increase it'll destroy the economy and be the end of civilisation as we know it? If a big coporation has stuffed up, treat it as your lucky day and enjoy the free grog. They **** you over every chance they get, so repay the favour on the rare occasions you get the chance.

I know that my moral obligation to be honest is the same in each case, but in the last one I reckon one bad turn deserves another and morality can go to buggery.

32Bravo
12-22-2007, 05:41 AM
Your eloquence is your signature, RS. :)

It is a large concern, that's why I'm concerned for the young lad. I understand your reasoning, but don't want to be dragged down to their level.

Rising Sun*
12-22-2007, 06:04 AM
I understand your reasoning, but don't want to be dragged down to their level.

Try thinking about it this way.

The big corporations are driven purely by profit. Morality has no dollar value, so it doesn't figure in what they do.

You, however, are driven by morality.

If you were driven by profit, you wouldn't even be asking the question.

Unlike the big corporations, you have two choices.

You can choose to act only on the profit motive, like the corporations, in which case you would keep the grog without even thinking about paying for it, because it's profit.

Or you can act on a moral basis, which includes notions of justice and retribution for bad acts, in which case you could keep the grog after thinking about it, because it goes a tiny way to balancing the moral ledger for all the far worse things the corporation has done.

If you choose the first course, you're descending to their level.

If you choose the second, you are acting as a moral agent.

You get to keep the grog both ways, but the second way you can feel righteous about it, and infinitely morally superior to the corporation which is so badly run by overpaid morons that it can't even ensure that it gets paid for all its stock because it doesn't pay its workers enough to ensure they're competent, which at least is consistent with remuneration policies at the top.

Sophistry
-noun plural -ries.
1. a subtle, tricky, superficially plausible, but generally fallacious method of reasoning.
2. a false argument; sophism.

32Bravo
12-22-2007, 06:08 AM
If I was not (as Uncle Albert says I am :) ) blinded by morality, I certainly am now! :)

I shall visit the store and speak with the young chap, and ask if it will jeopardise his posiiton if I come clean. While I'm their, I'll procure some more bottles at their full price. :)

Rising Sun*
12-22-2007, 06:20 AM
If I was not (as Uncle Albert says I am :) ) blinded by morality, I certainly am now! :)

I shall visit the store and speak with the young chap, and ask if it will jeopardise his posiiton if I come clean. While I'm their, I'll procure some more bottles at their full price. :)

If the kid's any good, he'll be so bloody grateful for your honesty that he'll hide the original transaction and sling you another couple of bottles to keep you quiet.

Then you'll have a real moral problem. :D

Panzerknacker
12-22-2007, 08:36 AM
If you think that a internet forum is the correct place to know if you are doing the right thing...you are in deep trouble.:rolleyes:

Rising Sun*
12-22-2007, 08:48 AM
If you think that a internet forum is the correct place to know if you are doing the right thing...you are in deep trouble.:rolleyes:

Why?

Haven't you devoted a lot of bandwidth to asserting and debating moral positions about the Falklands War?

tankgeezer
12-22-2007, 10:43 AM
Now, now, lets not get all testy, this is about 32's dilemma. There is always time to make things right, and it never hurts to be a better person than those who would advantage themselves at your expense, so I would go with returning,and paying the balance.
As said above, the poor fellow will have to ante up the loss, so give em' a break. It is Christmas eh,, My only question is, why Jack Daniels ? a fine malt, then a sour mash hill whiskey,,,the Sacred, and the Profane,,, I'm just having you on a bit 32, everyone likes a tot of Jack now and then.

pdf27
12-22-2007, 02:38 PM
Ever noticed how executive salaries grow by 10 to 25% annually on a huge base but if the workers want a 2% increase it'll destroy the economy and be the end of civilisation as we know it?
I work for one such company, where we've all just been given no bonus and a below inflation pay rise. It's supposed to be performance related, but even though I scored rather highly this year I got nothing.

Funnily enough we're all looking for new jobs right now. Which given that the project I'm on is likely to lose at least half of the engineers on it and delay costs the company roughly half a million dollars a month, is going to look like a very expensive mistake in the near future.

One difference though - we're pretty sure that the executive pay is being hammered right now, simply because it too is performance related - measured in by the same standards that the "company" score is on our performance related index - and the company score was zero. Hence the executives this time should be getting hammered (rightly so - the company performance has been dreadful, and it's largely their fault).

32Bravo
12-25-2007, 08:07 AM
Now, now, lets not get all testy, this is about 32's dilemma. There is always time to make things right, and it never hurts to be a better person than those who would advantage themselves at your expense, so I would go with returning,and paying the balance.
As said above, the poor fellow will have to ante up the loss, so give em' a break. It is Christmas eh,, My only question is, why Jack Daniels ? a fine malt, then a sour mash hill whiskey,,,the Sacred, and the Profane,,, I'm just having you on a bit 32, everyone likes a tot of Jack now and then.

I spoke with the young chap, and he said forget it has it hadn't been recorded. However, I purchased some more bottles to bring with me, as I'm staying with friends for Christmas, and asked him to run a couple through the till a couple of times, which made up the difference.

The friend I am visiting enjoys Jack Daniels. Personally, I've never tried it, but more than likely will do in the next few days - once we've finished the Bushmills, the Scotch and the rum! . :)

Digger
12-25-2007, 04:34 PM
I spoke with the young chap, and he said forget it has it hadn't been recorded. However, I purchased some more bottles to bring with me, as I'm staying with friends for Christmas, and asked him to run a couple through the till a couple of times, which made up the difference.

The friend I am visiting enjoys Jack Daniels. Personally, I've never tried it, but more than likely will do in the next few days - once we've finished the Bushmills, the Scotch and the rum! . :)

Good solution mate. I just would've drunk the lot, got pissed and fallen down in a drunken sleep. No more moral problem then!:rolleyes:

Have a very Merry Christmas and congrats for throwing up an interesting topic.

Digger