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Lancer44
05-22-2006, 08:51 PM
Look at this German bridge layers.
Only 20 of them were produced.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/345/bridge13xy.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9290/bruckenlegeriv8kr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

They are build on PzIVc chassis. Used by 3-rd Panzer Division.
Maximum length of bridge 56 metres.

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3311/pziv1598gv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/219/pziv1603ag.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And here another interesting design. Don't know much about it.

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/4217/l30104437oc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Cheers,

Lancer44

Panzerknacker
12-20-2007, 06:18 PM
More info about the bridge-laying panzers.


Brükenleger IV:


In accordance with an order from In 6 dated 22 February 1939, Krupp was to complete six Pz.Kpfw.IV chassis with modified superstructures fordelivery to Wa Pruef 5 for bridgelayers. Krupp Grusonwerk of Berlin completed these six Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.C chassis (Fgst.Nr.80435 to 80440) in June and July 1939.

On 14 November 1939, Krupp reported that they were completing a Versuchs-Fahrzeug plus four more already contracted and requested that Magirus take over assembly of another 16.

Brückenleger IV ausf B deploying its bridge over antitank obstacles.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9871/eeeeeeq1.jpg

On 16 January 1940, the "Brückenleger auf IV" were 9 meters long and that by the end of March Krupp was tocomplete two and Magirus 10 so that four divisions could each receive three. On 6 March 1940,
the first 20 Brueckenleger IV were to appear with trained crews by the end of April.

Krupp-Grusonwerk conipleted the additional Pz.Kpf IV Ausf.D chassis needed for these Brückenleger in February through April 1940. Ten of the chassis were delivered to Magirus, and Krupp kept 10 at Grusonwerk for mounting the bridgelaying equipment

All 20 Brueckenleger IV asuf b were completed by the end of April 1940.

In May of 1940 there was 20 Brueckenleger issued to units, and plans
to coriiplete another 60. One platoon in the 3.Panzer-Pionier-Kompanie ( armored assault enginneers) of the l., 2., 3., S., and 10.Panzer-
Divisions had been outfitted with four Brueckenleger.

Their employment in Belgium and France in May and June 1940 had not been very successful. By 3 June 1940, the decision had been made to cancel further Brueckenleger production and use the 16 chassis that this released to increase normal Pz.Kpfrv.IV production. However, even though the production series was canceled, a small nunmber of improved bridgelayers were ordered for experiments.

Krupp completed four Brueckenleger IV c inJanuary 1941.
All four Brueckenleger IV c were sent to the Eastern Front with the 3.Panzer-Division.
On 25 June 1941 those were used to span 18 meters across a river at an old bridge footing. Both wheeled and tracked vehicles of the Panzer-Division and part of a following motorized Division crossed the temporary bridge. wich was retrieved without difficulty.

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3900/eee33333333333me7.jpg

snake64
12-21-2007, 01:13 AM
wow great shot of a german specialty tank.They made many famous variants but in very few numbers.It is a testament that so few made such a large impression.

Panzerknacker
12-21-2007, 09:03 AM
The germans designed a lot of special tanks, but those are definately less know that the so called "funny tanks" of the allies.

Sd.Kfz 251 with night vision searchlight:

The "Biwa" infrared sight (connected to weapons) with an observation range of 300 to 400 meters is still being developed. Finally in October 1944, 10 m.SPW (Sd.Kfz.251) were transferred directly to a firm for installation of "Uhu" (owl) equipment.

http://i36.tinypic.com/6i5xd1.jpg

On 8 August 1944, the m.Schtz.Pz.Wg. (Uhu) (Sd.Kfz.251/20) was listed as being outfitted with one Fu 8 and one Fu 5 radio sets as well as a Bordsprechanlage (intercom system). As listed on 15 November 1944, the (Sd.Kfi.251120) was to be armed with an M.G.42 and an M.P.40 and outfitted with one 60 cm searchlight, one 20 cm searchlight, one BG 1251 (infrared sight), and one FG 1252 (infrared sight).60cm "red light" projector.

http://i18.tinypic.com/66tthk5.jpg

Six Sd.Kfz.251120 were sent by rail to Putlos, leaving on 7 March 1945, and nine Sd.Kfi.251120 were sent by rail to Bergen, also leaving on 7 March 1945. The only recorded operational employment of the "Uhu" was ordered by the Generalinspekteur der Panzertruppen on 12 February 1945 with the assignment of the 1 .Kompanie/Panzer-Abteilung 10 1 of the Fuehrer-Grenadier-Division to complete company-strength troop trials.

This unit was to be issued 10 Panthers with F.G.1250 infrared sights and three Sd.Kfz.251120 with built in B.G.1251 (Uhu). On 26 March 1945, Major Woellwarth and Hauptmann Rietz reported on the action of the first company equipped with infrared sights for night combat. The infrared equipment had performed successfully without any breakdowns.

The "uhu" device was designed to be the main illuminating device for the projected "sperber" nachtkampfgruppen, night combat units equipped with panthers and Grenadiers using Stg-44 rifles with the vampyr night vision scope.

Beobachtung Gerät BG 1251 (20 cm searchlight) y Fern Gerät FG 1252, ( long distance sighting device) for the half track driver.

http://i34.tinypic.com/1znlytz.jpg

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
12-21-2007, 04:42 PM
Would the bridge laying ones be used by Panzerpioniers?

Panzerknacker
12-21-2007, 05:41 PM
Yes it was, re-read my post and you ll see.

1000ydstare
12-22-2007, 01:27 AM
wow great shot of a german specialty tank.They made many famous variants but in very few numbers.It is a testament that so few made such a large impression.

Er, they were binned after use in 1940. So they couldn't have made too much of an impression.

It looks like the Germans went for a very complex system of laying and recovering. In comparison to the latter Allied attempts. Did the bridges have to be launched with their legs down Panzer, or could they be launched flat?

Were there any specialist support vehicles that could sort the banks out prior to launching?

Panzerknacker
12-22-2007, 08:34 AM
Er, they were binned after use in 1940. So they couldn't have made too much of an impression.



I would say 1942, the Bruckenleger and other design called "assault ladder" panzer were used until that date in the Eastern front. Not to mention the special remote controlled demolition/mine claring vehicles used util the end of the war.

http://i.blog.empas.com/jino21/30844672_567x422.jpg

Panzerknacker
12-24-2007, 08:32 AM
V2 Feurleitpanzer ( auf 8 ton zugkraftwagen)

In order to made the balistic missile A-4 ( also better know as the V2) less vulnerable to air and artillery attacks a mobile plataform was developed over the 8 ton half-track tractor. The vehicle not only served as towing plataform but also as control plataform and to fuel the rocket. ( the V2 need to be fueled prior to the launch)

The prototype "Feurleitpanzer" ( fire control armored vehicle) was equipped with an fully armored supestructure over a Büssing Nag BN 10 Zugkraftwagen 8 ton tractor.

Feuerleitpanzer, prototype.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3540/feurprotomz1.jpg

The production series using and different mounting and rear "bunker" and a non armored normal driver cab over a KM 11 chassis. Since the vehcle normally was exposed to the large blast of the propelling gasses in the V2, this armored rear section was designed to deflect the heat and protect the crew.

Production vehicle

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9196/feurseriecy1.jpg


A total of 57 Feurleitpanzer were completed between march and november 1944, includng prototypes. This vehicles were operated with the Artillerie Abeitlung (mot) 485 and (mot) 836 of the Heer and the Werfer Abt 500 in the Waffen SS. Several rockets were launched against England and Belgium.

V2 control/fire room.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3256/controlkn6.jpg

Despite of its mobility 3 of this vehicle were claimed as destroyed in low level attacks by USAAF fighter-bombers.

Engine: 6 cil Maybach 140 hp
Armor: 14-8 mm
Speed: 52 km/h
Weight: 11,200 kg (without V2)

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/8307/towti2.jpg

Major Walter Schmidt
01-05-2008, 12:46 PM
Bergepanzers
http://juntama-juntama.hp.infoseek.co.jp/model/bergepanzer_tiger_p_20.jpg
Bergetiger (P)
http://powstanie-warszawskie-1944.ac.pl/Panzer5/bergepanzer38.jpg
Bergepanzer 38(t) Hetzer

Panzerknacker
01-07-2008, 05:48 PM
Nice images, by the way reduce the size of your signature, it is huge.

Koen
01-21-2008, 12:51 PM
thx for the interesting pictures PzK !

Panzerknacker
01-21-2008, 05:36 PM
thx for the interesting pictures PzK !


You re welcome.

Abwurfvorrichtungen on Pz.Kpfw.1

As ordered by the General der Pioniere und Festungen ( engineers and fortifications) on 28 December 1939: Through In 6 the
liad of the army has ordered the rapid procurement of 100 Abwurfvorrichtungen (explosive charge dropping device) for Panzer units. These devices had already been developed, and were proven successful by Pionier-Battalion 38 of the 2.Panzer-Division.
From inside a buttoned-up Pz.Kpfw.1 it was possible to use this Abwurfvorrichtung, mounted on the rear deck, to drop explosive charges weighing up to 50 kilograms onto obstacles and barriers.

The device was operated by pulling a cable.

Every Panzer-Division was to be issued 10 Abwurfvorrichtungen.
These Abwurfvorrichtungen were mounted on the rear deck of Pz.Kpfrv.1 Ausf.B. In the case of Pionier-Battalion 38, a larger version was mounted of the rear of a Pz.Kpfw.II

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/3387/dibujotu9.jpg

On 4 March 1940, orders were issued to create a Panzer-Pionier-Kompanie in each Panzer-Division Organízed in accordance with K.St.N.716 (Behelf) dated 6 March 1940, each Panzer-Pionier-Kompatiie
was to have two Zerstörungszuge (destruction platoons) each with five Pz.Kpfw.1 (M.G.) (Sd.Kfz.101). Orders had already been given on 21 February 1940 to issue 11 Pz.Kpfw.1 Ausf.B to each Pionier-Battalion, one for the company commatnder and five each for the 1. and 2.Zug.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9013/dibujogk2.jpg

The vehicle was used in France and the desert, in later teather is was not a succes because its weak armor.

Dobb
01-22-2008, 12:05 PM
Woo,finally someone found the BergePanzers! BergePanthers were used more extensively, with tow cranes and what not. Seems like they do not like to waste their handiwork. Anyone got picture of that?

Panzerknacker
03-06-2008, 05:20 PM
Sd.Kfz 300 Mine clearing vehicle ( second series)

On 3 April 1940 an order was placed for a 2.Serie of 100 Minenräum-Wagen. Designated by Borgward as the "B II", it was a longer, heavier vehicle at 2.3 metric tons and powered by a larger 2.247 liter, 6-cylinder, water-cooled Borgward 6M 2.3 RTBV gasoline engine delivering 49 metric horsepower at 3300 rpm. It still had a two-speed transmission with a maximum speed of 3 km/h in first gear and 6 km/hr in 2nd. Fuel capacity was only sufficient to travel about 30 kilometers.

Kleiner Panzerbefehlwagen 1 ( small command tank) as guiding plataform for a Sd.Kfz 300 with mine rolles attached.

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/2847/dfdfnq6.jpg

The walls of the hull were made out of concrete, with an armor plate added to the front to provide protection against rifle fire and fragrnents from small-caliber shells.

The "B II" could either be steered by a driver or remotely controlled by radio. Control by radio was limited to a maximum range of 2 kilometers from the command vehicle. Two Minenräum-Wagen could be steered at the same time by one comrnaiid vehicle. Up to 515 kilograms of explosives could be carried in the "B II".

There was a 12 second delay in the detonation of the explosive charge after initiation by a radio signal. The explosion created a crater 1.5 meters deep and 5 meters across in a normal grasscovered field. A 300 kilogram charge detonated mines within a 40 meter diameter circle. Production of the 2.Serie of 100 Minenräum-Wagen began in July 1940.

Minenräum-Kompanie was expanded into Minenraeum-Abteilung 1 with two Minenraeum- Kompanie on 1 December 1940. Each Mineräum Kompanie with three platoons was organized in accordance with K.St.N.1159 dated 1 February 1941.
Minenräum-Abteilung 1 was first sent into action at the start of Operation Barbarossa, which began on 22 June 1941.

Sd.Kfz 300 second series in the Eastern front, june 1941.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5702/dibujosc1.jpg

The use of this vehicle was not very sucessful given its limited cross-country capabilities.

Major Walter Schmidt
03-08-2008, 10:43 AM
http://www.panzer-reich.co.uk/images/tanks/panzer-3/tauchpanzer-3/panzer3ht-1.jpg
http://vn-parabellum.narod.ru/picturres/pz3_swim_2.jpg
TauchpanzerIII amphibious tank
Planned for use in Sealion, later particapeted in Barbarossa.

Splinter54
03-08-2008, 12:32 PM
Correct me if i am wrong, but wasn't every German Tank ('39 upwards), not like Allied tanks (i had to say that ^^), capable of crossing rivers etc. with snorkels under water? Water prooved?

Panzerknacker
03-08-2008, 06:21 PM
The early Panthers and the early Tigers 1 had full equipment for crossing rivers submerged ( 4,1 meters maximum deep) however the rest of the Panzers only can be partially submerged, 1 to 1,8 meters in deep.

tankgeezer
03-09-2008, 08:31 AM
"delivering 49 metric horsepower at 3300 rpm."
Can someone define "metric horsepower" for me? I've never heard the term before.

Panzerknacker
03-09-2008, 08:43 AM
A metric horsepower is the energy need to pick up 1 the weight of 75 kilograms 1 meter in height in one second.

A horse power (british I suppose) is the energy needed to pick up 76 kilograms the same distance and in the same amount of time.

Let say than the HP is more "powerful" than the metric horsepower. ;)

Panzerknacker
03-20-2008, 06:33 PM
Porsche Rammtiger

After the order was given for Nibelungenwerk to cease production on their contract for 100 Pz. Kpfw. 'Tiger' (P), it was reported on 22 November 1942 that: "Hitler has approved the proposal to produce one Porsche-Tiger as a 'RammTiger". It should have the task of ramming into houses by means of an extended nose.

It must be heavily armored (including the tracks) at the cost of speed. However, it needs only light armament." Porsche K.G. completed drawing SK 8258 of a VK 45.01(P) mit Rammhaube (with ram hood) by 7 December 1942. The glacis, side and rear plates were to be 30 mm thick and the roof plates 50 mm thick. Its overall length was to be about 8.25 meters, height 2.550 meters, and width 3.600 meters.
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6053/rammoj1.jpg

Eisenwerke Oberdonau completed the armor components for three Rammtiger in May . In all 3 operational Rammtiger were completed at Nibelungenwerk and accepted by Waffenamt inspectors In August 1943.
No original documentation has been found to date revealing if these three Rammtiger were assigned to a combat unit, sent to the front, or used in their originally intended role.

Panzerknacker
03-20-2008, 06:42 PM
A good view of the rammhaube in this models of the ramming Tiger.


http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5947/rm100rl6.jpg



http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/9422/rm102ak3.jpg


http://strangevehicles.greyfalcon.us/RAUMPANZER%20TIGER.htm

Major Walter Schmidt
03-20-2008, 07:58 PM
Sometimes you have to see it to suspect it. :)

Panzerknacker
04-20-2008, 11:03 AM
PanzermessKraftwagen

This very rare armoured vehicle of the German Wehrmacht (Panzermesskraftwagen = Armored measuring motorized vehicle) was used for the testing of artillery weapons at the shooting ranges of Kummersdorf and Hillersleben. The vision poart and side armor were strengtened iin order to allow close observation of the artillery impacts.

http://i31.tinypic.com/4v1lwp.jpg

Just one or two Pzmskfw were manufactured and one captured by the U.S Army in 1945.

pdf27
04-20-2008, 11:28 AM
A metric horsepower is the energy need to pick up 1 the weight of 75 kilograms 1 meter in height in one second.

A horse power (british I suppose) is the energy needed to pick up 76 kilograms the same distance and in the same amount of time.

Let say than the HP is more "powerful" than the metric horsepower. ;)

Or to use sensible units...
1 Metric Horsepower = 735 W
1 Mechanical Horsepower (original unit dating back to James Watt) = 746 W

larryparamedic
04-20-2008, 06:40 PM
The concrete "tank" is great! But I thought a bridgelayer that could climb itself over antitank obstacles pretty clever.
They don't mention in the photo caption, but did anyone note this particular vehicle has a broken track (a mine, maybe)?

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3900/eee33333333333me7.jpg[/LEFT]

Panzerknacker
04-21-2008, 06:09 PM
Or to use sensible units...
1 Metric Horsepower = 735 W
1 Mechanical Horsepower (original unit dating back to James Watt) = 746 W

That is a better way to explain it.:)



They don't mention in the photo caption, but did anyone note this particular vehicle has a broken track (a mine, maybe)?



No, unfortunately no mention of the damage, several images of the bruckenleger and sturmsteg panzers show them with broken or loosen tracks.

larryparamedic
04-21-2008, 08:13 PM
Yes, that's kind of where I was leading this to. It seems to imply a strong measure of unreliability if the few photos of them show them non-operational in some way. Particularly I think when the photos show the same consistent type of problem with them.

Panzerknacker
04-21-2008, 08:33 PM
Agreed, I tough the germans were more "tidy" at the times to taken pictures of his own tanks.

another more of that kind.

http://i25.tinypic.com/3535w0k.jpg

Panzerknacker
05-27-2008, 08:31 PM
Sd.Kfz 253, observation post:

http://i31.tinypic.com/ka1sm8.jpg

During the late thirties trials were held of the pre-production series of the Sturmgeschütz and it was concluded that these vehicles would have to be supported by an armored ammunition carrier and observation vehicle.Thers were to be based on the Demag semi-tracked chassis.Shortly after the Sturmgeschütz had gone into production in 1940 an order for 25 le gep Beob Wg was placed and these were built between March and June 1940.

As these were the very first production vehicles using the Demag-developed D7p shortened version of the 1 ton tractor some manufacturing difficulties were experienced.

Further series were ordered as the number of Sturmgeschütz was increased , but this specialized model was abandoned in favour of the normal Sd Kfz 250.

Heavier armour and a fully-enclosed crew compartment were features of these Sd Kfz 253.Observation was from a large circular hatch in the roof.The radio aerial on the right-hand side folded forward into a protective channel when not in use.The Sd Kfz 253 served with Sturmgeschütz Batterien 640 , 659 , 660 and 665 in France in 1940 and later with other assault artillery batteries in Russia.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/6056/sdkfz253arthurplhepsprinzeugenkw1.jpg

Major Walter Schmidt
05-27-2008, 09:13 PM
Land-Wasser-Schleppler Amphibious vehicle
http://www.waffenhq.de/panzer/landwasserschlepper_03.jpg
Rheinmentall AG was set on an amphibious vehicle for amphibious landings. (probably for sealion) It had no armour so it was sort of abandoned for a pontooon system.
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6591/landwasserschlepper16ep.jpg
http://www.waffenhq.de/panzer/landwasserschlepper_02.jpg
http://www.panzer-modell.de/monatstipp/oktober05/06g.jpg
http://panzerkeil.dre.hu/harcjarm/egyebj/lws/landwass.jpg

Panzerknacker
05-28-2008, 06:10 PM
The LWS was undoubtly one of the most pratical vehicles, very little used however, the lack of armor was his main problem.

Panzerknacker
06-25-2008, 06:41 PM
2 more images of the observation post Sd.Kfz 253 halftrack.

in the DAK.

http://www.afrikakorps.org/_photos/250Family/253Cap.jpg



1th Panzer Div in France 1940.

http://www.panzertruppen.org/heer/panzer/1a1.jpg

Somewhere in the Eastern front, god view of the aerial mast and rear hatch.

http://www.panzernet.net/panzernet/fotky/polopasy/253/023.jpg



Profile

http://www.panzer.punkt.pl/galerie_2/others_hkette/sdkfz_253.jpg

General Zod
07-02-2008, 06:48 PM
Those are some great pictures Thanks to all who posted There is a model of the LWS in 1/35 out soon But the price is close to $100 A bit much for a plastic kit

Panzerknacker
07-02-2008, 07:02 PM
Maybe is plastic touched by Rommel himself :D

yea, that sounds expensive.

General Zod
07-02-2008, 07:35 PM
Maybe is plastic touched by Rommel himself :D

yea, that sounds expensive.

LMAO :mrgreen:

Major Walter Schmidt
07-02-2008, 08:05 PM
I think its a resin model.

General Zod
07-02-2008, 08:21 PM
I think its a resin model.

I know there is/was a resin model Hobby Boss and Trumpeter both have announced the LWS

STEELTIGAR
07-07-2008, 02:30 AM
thanks for the pics,very interesting. do you have any on the sturm emil?

genkideskan
07-07-2008, 03:20 PM
LWS Its a plastic kit - here is a report

http://ipmsdeutschland.de/FirstLook/Hobby_Boss/Prev_HB_LWS_35/HB_82430_LWS.html

Panzerknacker
07-07-2008, 06:09 PM
thanks for the pics,very interesting. do you have any on the sturm emil?


Sure I do, check the "panzer Projekte " topic.

Panzerknacker
08-13-2008, 06:40 PM
SD.Kfz 9.

The Heer heavy tractor for towing the biggest vehicles and guns.
An interesting view of 3 FAMOs towing a 38 cm gun barrel for Batterie Todt near Calais


http://www.panzerworld.net/pictures/00044.jpg



This Pz. Kpfw. III Ausf. E or F has probably slipped off the road, and is about to be saved by an Sd. Kfz. 9 "Famo". This vehicle too has a lot of supplies on its rear deck
http://www.panzerworld.net/pictures/00024.jpg


Sd.Kfz 9 of the Afrika Korps.

http://www.afrikakorps.org/_photos/FAMO/FAMOwithSdAnh116PIII.jpg

Panzerknacker
08-13-2008, 06:52 PM
Specifications for Type SD.Kfz 9 F3:

Type: Heavy Half-Tracked Prime Mover

Production Period: 1939 to 1944

Producers: FAMO, Vomag and Tatra

Number Produced: approx. 2500 (all types)

Gross Weight: 18000kg

Empty Weight (with fuel and equipment): 12130kg

Cargo Load (8 men and 1900kg cargo): 2870kg

Total Length: 8.25m

Total Width: 2.60m

Total Height: 2.85m / 2.77m without canvas cover & windscreen

Engine: Maybach HL 108 TUKRM / 230hp / 12-cylinder

Tracks: Zgw. 50/400/200 / 440mm wide / 47 links per side

Maximum Road Speed: 50km/h

Range: 250km

Towed Load (weight) Normal: 18000kg

Fuel Capacity: 290l


http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/9081/sdkfz9bt4.jpg

tankgeezer
08-14-2008, 04:34 PM
Hmmmm, maybe the Maybach engine should have been installed in the Tiger, would'nt need a tow then...

Churchill
08-14-2008, 05:05 PM
Hahaha, would nave needed wings then. :roll: ;)

Panzerknacker
08-14-2008, 07:38 PM
I dont know if this photo is faked but 2 Sd.kfz 9 pulling a Tiger in a climb sounds too much.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Bilder/SdKfz9/SdKfz9-1%20Tiger.jpg



Crane for panzer repair variant.

flamethrowerguy
08-14-2008, 08:18 PM
I dont know if this photo is faked but 2 Sd.kfz 9 pulling a Tiger in a climb sounds too much.

Two Sd. Kfz. 9 were common to pull a Tiger but, right, with an acclivity? Maybe that Horch has to push a bit!

Sergej
08-15-2008, 06:48 AM
In the right upper corner, maybe it's a third Sd.kfz 9.
Here an other photo:
http://panzerkeil.dre.hu/harcjarm/spw/sdkfz9/famo-line.jpg

Panzerknacker
08-18-2008, 07:14 PM
Yes, Is visible now, 2 seemed too little. :D

Panzerknacker
08-24-2008, 09:25 PM
8.8cm Flak 37 Selbstfahrlafette Auf Zugkraftwagen 18t


An armored variant of the SD.Kfz 9 made in response to a requeriment for a heavy self mobile support gun. A 8,8 cm centimeters Flak gun was emplaced behind and armored driver cabin.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t158/KurtSteiner/zgkw.jpg

The gun was designed to engage field fortification and bunkers, it was used against tanks as makeshift tank destroyer despite the fact its mounting was too high and not really suitable for the task.

About 50 were made betwenn 1939 and 1942 and used in Poland, France and Russia.

Panzerknacker
08-26-2008, 07:49 PM
Sd.Kfz 252.

Ammunition carrier based on the Sd.Kfz 10 1 ton halftrack and with the 8 mm body of the recce/ observation Sd.kfz 253 . Used mostly for suppling the Stug III batallions.

http://i35.tinypic.com/29123o3.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/16a5cew.jpg

The Sd.Kfz 252 were equipped with an sonder-anhänger 32 ( specialized trailed) to carry aditional 32 rounds of 75 mm "short" ammo.
Maximum speed on road was 62 km/h and the range 200 km.

413 Sd.kfz 252 were completed between 1939-41.

http://i37.tinypic.com/2w4l69t.jpg

Panzerknacker
09-03-2008, 06:31 PM
Sd.Kfz 301 "Borgward"


In October 1941, Borgward was order to develop the B III VK 302 to a schwere ladungsträger - B IV Sd. Kfz. 301 and, from the experiences with the B I and B II, a leichter ladungstraeger Goliath Sd. Kfz. 302.
Known as the B IV, it was designated by the Waffenamt as Sprengladungsträger ( explosive charge carrier) (Sd. Kfz. 301).

http://i38.tinypic.com/1orl9t.jpg


The Sd. Kfz. 301 Borgward IV measured 3.65m in length, 1.8m in width and 1.19m in height. It weighed 3.6 tons and used the same engine as VK 302, giving it a maximum speed of 38km/h. It had a one-man crew, who drove the vehicle to the launch spot before engaging the enemy. Thereafter the 8mm protection plates around the driver was folded down to protect the radio and then the vehicle was radio-controlled towards the target. When engaging the enemy, a 500kg explosive charge carried on the frontal armor plate was offloaded.


The vehicle backed away and the explosive charge was set off with delayed detonation. Some 12 experimental vehicles were built in April 1942. Series production began in May 1942 and approximately 616 Borgward IV Ausf. A were built until June 1943, the Ausf. B being built in 260 examples until November 1943 and some 305 Ausf. C were built from December 1943 to September 1944.

http://ostpanzer.asty.ru/topics/special_vehicles/BIV/i/006.jpg


The Ausf. B only differed a little from the Ausf. A, it weighed 400kg more, the radio antennae was moved and the radio-equipment had been improved. Borgward IV Ausf. C weighed 4.85tons, measured 4.1m in length, 1.83m in width and 1.25m in height. It carried thicker armor and used new tracks. The drivers position were moved from right to the left side. It also used a more powerful Borgward engine, providing some 78hp.

tankgeezer
09-03-2008, 09:51 PM
I dont know if this photo is faked but 2 Sd.kfz 9 pulling a Tiger in a climb sounds too much.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Bilder/SdKfz9/SdKfz9-1%20Tiger.jpg



Crane for panzer repair variant.
I put on my bi-focals, and there seems to be tow cables between the halftracks, so they were ganged together. That would be much enough to pull the Tiger.

Kiwiguy
09-14-2008, 05:11 AM
More importantly the officer standing beside the staff car is standing on a lean towards the incline which indicates there is nothing faked about this picture.

flamethrowerguy
10-25-2008, 11:02 AM
Panzer I, n. A., VK 1801.
Welded with 80mm plates. Originally developed in late 1939 for the intended storm on the Maginot Line, built by Krauß-Maffei and MAN.

2936

tom!
10-25-2008, 11:57 AM
Hi.



8.8cm Flak 37 Selbstfahrlafette Auf Zugkraftwagen 18t


An armored variant of the SD.Kfz 9 made in response to a requeriment for a heavy self mobile support gun. A 8,8 cm centimeters Flak gun was emplaced behind and armored driver cabin.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t158/KurtSteiner/zgkw.jpg

The gun was designed to engage field fortification and bunkers, it was used against tanks as makeshift tank destroyer despite the fact its mounting was too high and not really suitable for the task.

About 50 were made betwenn 1939 and 1942 and used in Poland, France and Russia.

The two vehicles on the left are SdKfz 8, not SdKfz 9..

By the way, some of these vehicles were used post-war by the czechoslovakian army.

Yours

tom! ;)

Panzerknacker
10-26-2008, 09:25 AM
Thank you for the amendment.

Panzerknacker
12-22-2008, 03:48 PM
Panzer II ausf L "Luchs"

http://i40.tinypic.com/2vumsyr.jpg

In late 1941 the HeeresWaffeAmt (HWA) ordered the design of a new 13 tons fast fully tracked vehicle for recoinassance purposes.

It was to be armed with a 37 or 20 mm gun and a machinegun, it should had a powerful radio set in order to comunicate with platoon commanders and artillery batteries up to 35 km.

3 proposal were submitted in june 1942, one from Skoda, other form MAN, and the later by Saurer.

After intensive testing the Man proposal was declared as the winner in june 1942, eventually 300 vehicle were ordered but later this order was reduced to 100 tanks.

http://i40.tinypic.com/vzyfqt.jpg

Panzerknacker
12-22-2008, 04:02 PM
Characteristics panzerkampfwagen II ausf L

Type: Recce tank

Crew: 4

Weight in combat : 13250 kg

Armor: 30mm front hull and turret, 20 mm sides, 12mm top deck and roof.

Engine: 6 cilinders Maybach HL 66 water cooled, 200 hp

Speed on road: 60 km/h

Off road: 30 km/h

Armament: 1 Kwk 38 fully automatic 20 mm gun with 330 rounds, plus a MG 42 with 3350 rounds of S.m.K ammunition.

Turret operation: manual

Internal view of the turret viewing from the commander seat, the MG 42 is removed.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2cmvres.jpg

The lynx included some extras like the heating and extra ventilation for the crew, also it had 2 devices for starting the engine is severe cold conditions. 31 were delivered by the 1th january 1943, after the 100th vehicle was manufatured in july 1943 all the program was cancelled, the tank did not fullfill completely the needs of the Heer, mostly because their size. its planned sussesor, the VK 1601 "Leopard" did not manage to enter in service.

http://i40.tinypic.com/nn7dr8.jpg

flamethrowerguy
03-12-2009, 06:05 PM
Just for the unique looks of it - another one of the Feuerleitpanzer taken at Heer test site, Peenemünde in 1942 (see post #9 for details to this vehicle):

3265

Panzerknacker
03-12-2009, 06:31 PM
Geschützwagen B2

This strange looking vehicle was an attemp to create an assault gun to accompany the flamethrowing tanks used in the early stages of "Barbarossa": it comprised a medium 105 mm german field howitzer on the Char B1 chassis. In the end was relegated to other teathers of operation.

http://i42.tinypic.com/zjchli.jpg


http://i42.tinypic.com/2hf15w2.jpg

Panzerknacker
03-25-2009, 06:58 PM
Two more images of the Geschützwagen B2, probably you wont agree with me but I think it was a very atractive vehicle.

http://i41.tinypic.com/16ghjyw.jpg


http://i39.tinypic.com/3583xhc.jpg

Panzerknacker
04-05-2009, 09:24 PM
Mittlere Pionerpanzerwagen Sd.kfz 251/5 & 215/7.

"Medium sized armored vehicle for assault engineers", it was the armored lorry for the Pionere, used for carring a small 8 tons bridge with supplies and tools likes wire cutter, rope, steel wire, aditional fuel, and even explosive charges and mines.

http://i43.tinypic.com/20fojfs.jpg

The Sd.kfz 251 was made between 1940 and 1941 and carried no brigde. Variant 251/7 took over the job in with the rail 8 tons bridge and standarizated radio equipment Fug 5 in 1942, and was emplaced almost exclusively inside panzer divisions, between the ranks of the Pionere kompanies.

Factory fresh Sd.kfz 251/7.

http://i44.tinypic.com/scxuf6.jpg

The resposability to manufacture this variant layed in the firm Wesserhütte wich completed nearly 2000 Pionerpanzerwagen between 1940 and 1945.

Characteristics Mittlere Pionerpanzerwagen 251/7.

Weight combat loaded: 8180 kg

Lenght: 5,8 meters

Crew: 7 or 8

Engine : Maybach inline 6, Hl 42 100 hp.

Max speed: 50 km/h

Internal fuel: 165 liters.

Armor; 8 to 14,5 mm

Armament: 2 MG 34 with 1100rpg ( MG 42 in 1944 and onwards)
1 AT rifle PZb 40 with 40 rounds ( deleted in 1943)
5 x 3 kilograms T.N.T demolition charges.
10 x Te.Mi 42 antitank mines
20 stick grenades and 10 smoke grenades.
2 x K-98k with 125 rpg, 2 x MP-40 with 160 rpg.
Optionally a backpack flamethrower.

Inside view, the Pzb 40, rope, explosive charges, 7,92 and 9mm ammo boxes are seen.
http://i42.tinypic.com/2v11zco.jpg

Panzerknacker
04-06-2009, 06:18 PM
Mörserzugmittel

Literally; mortar towing element or better translated: artillery tractor. There were several types of tanks captured by the Wehrmacht used as tractor for heavy pieces of 150mm and bigger. The conversion of a standar tank into a Mörserzugmittel was simple, it consisted in removing the turret , adding a towing brackets in the rear and sometimes covering the turret ring with canvas.

The first type was the Czech Pz 35 (t) wich was retired from service in 1945. A large quantity of french tanks were also modified for artillery towing task, mostly due the good automotive characteristics but one man turret that didnt fit into german combat tank doctrine.
There were even tractors made from T-34, however that was done only when the turret of this tank was irreparable, the T-34 a too valious combat vehicle to be wasted if fully functional.

- Morserzugmittel Matilda captured in the Eastern Front

- Morserzugmittel Somua S 35.

- Zugmittel Renault R-35 towing artillery and trucks.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2wqa2ab.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/fohbas.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/30k64pc.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/23racqq.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/25rgqk1.jpg

Panzerknacker
04-12-2009, 10:19 AM
NSU Kettenkrad, panzer-motorcycle of the german army.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZQNBI5hvqM

peopleselbow
04-14-2009, 04:47 PM
did they break down

Panzerknacker
04-14-2009, 05:51 PM
Amended info about the "Goliath"

The complete name was Leitche ladungsträger Goliath ( Goliath light explosive charge carrier)

There were two variants, the Sd.kfz 302 with electric motor and the Sd.Kfz 303 with a 2-stroke gasoline/petrol engine.

Sd.kfz 302.

http://i41.tinypic.com/312trbo.jpg

Development began in late 1940 by Borgward and first deliveries were in april 1942 for testing in Sebastopol area. Electric motor, batteries feed variant carried 60 kilograms of T.N.T and had a maximum speed of 10km/h. Gasoline engine variant carried 75 kilograms of explosives and had 12 km/h max speed.

The one in the video is a Sd.Kfz 302 electric variant. This variant was deleted from production line in december 1943.
Even is not noticiable in the video the control is by 2 cable wires, not radio, it can by used at a maximum range of 500 meters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWEtN8UlB_A

A total of 2850 Goliath were manufactured up to mid-1944. Used in all the teathers of operation but Afrika.

Sd.Kfz 303 Goliath near Warsaw, 1944.

http://i44.tinypic.com/1zv3nf9.jpg

Panzerknacker
04-14-2009, 06:07 PM
SD.Kfz 303a captured in a entrenchment near Juno Beach.

http://i42.tinypic.com/ddou9g.jpg

Panzerknacker
04-21-2009, 09:04 PM
Sturmstegpanzer

A vehicle sharing some characteristics with the "bruckenleger IV" . It was basically a self moving armored 2 piece telescopic assault ladder designed to be deployed over trenches, minefields and /or the roof of bunkers to allow the infantry crossing the obstacles and attacking targets inside or beyond.
The two sections could be extended up to 26.5 meters.

This tank also named "Bruckenleger S" was manufactured on a panzer IV ausf D chassis. Only 4 were complete in early 1941 and send to the front, used by the 39 Pioner-panzer Abteilung of the 3 Panzer Division in the invation of the USSR.

http://i39.tinypic.com/vngrxf.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/9ay7aq.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/25u4hls.jpg

The second picture is already posted by lancer44 in the first post of this topic, but of course the tank is not a brigdelayer as he said but a armored self propelled lader.

leccy
04-22-2009, 04:45 AM
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerkampfwagen-iv.htm

Panzerkampfwagen IV also became a base for special purpose vehicles.From February to May of 1940, 20 Ausf C/Ds were converted by Krupp to bridge layers - Bruckenleger IVb. 16 vehicles were mounted with bridging equipment by Magirus and 4 by Krupp. They saw service in Belgium and France in 1940 with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 10th Panzer Division. In late 1940, most were converted back to regular battle tanks.In January of 1941, Krupp completed 4 newer Bruckenleger IVc bridge layers. They saw service in 1941 in Russia with 3rd Panzer Division.

At the same time Infanterie Sturmsteg auf PzKpfw IV (Bruckenleger IV s / Sturmstegpanzer) - infantry assault (56m long) bridge mounted on Panzer IV Ausf C was produced. Only 4 were made and saw service in France in 1940 and in Russia in 1941 with 3rd Panzer Division. The bridging equipment worked in a similar fashion as firefighting equipment.Also single Panzer IV Ausf C was fitted with experimental mine rollers but it did not enter production.

I assumed that the Infantry Assault Bridge could be used like the Modern'ish' British Army one to allow infantry to cross a river quickly to establish a bridgehead for a vehicle capable bridge to be built into, all references that I have found though are that it was more of an assault ladder. Wonder what sort of deck/rungs it had.

Image caption (sorry could not get the images to load alone, clicking on the blue links in the writing brought up some different pictures and one vehicle have never seen or heard about 'Bruckenlager I')

Some Polish tanks were incorporated into German ranks like this 7TP. Following this tank is a rarely found Brückenleger I and Panzer Is

http://www.history.jp/wehrmacht/008-04.jpg

http://www.history.jp/wehrmacht/008.htm

Panzerknacker
04-22-2009, 05:45 PM
Thanks for the info.

I am convinced that all this german "Funnies" were actually good ideas, some of them eventually saved a lot of assault engineers lifes. However the production of this very useful AFVs was minimal compared with the frontline normal tanks. Big mistake of the Heer, specially the lack of devoted mineclearing tanks other than the explosive carriers wich wer one used and is over.

Panzerknacker
04-26-2009, 09:56 PM
Panzerfahre aus Pz IV einbau:

http://i41.tinypic.com/54hv5u.jpg

Developed in early 1941 by the firms of Klöckner Humboldt Deutz AG, Werk Magirus, Bosanwerft Maybach Zahnradfabik Friedrichshaften, Krupp Gruson and Kässbohrer. The Panzerfahre (Pz.F) was intended to replace the Landwasserschleper (LWS) as a vehicle capable of supply and combat operations on the land and in the water. The first of two units was delivered in May 1942.

The overall shape of the vehicle was that of a large, lightly armored, tracked boat, with a propeller located aft, and the running gear from a modified Panzerkampwagen IV. It was of riveted construction and powered by a Maybach HL 120 engine. The Pz. F had an armored protection of 11-13mm plate and it could tow an amphibious trailer, or work in tandem with another Pz. F and a floating platform to ferry loads up to 24 tons. Only 2 or 3 wer completed and tested but is not clear if ever were deployed to the frontline.

http://i43.tinypic.com/w9a5ie.jpg

navyson
04-27-2009, 07:44 AM
Definitely reminiscent of:3320
The DUKW also reminds me of this (Panzerfahre (Pz.F)) except it has wheels instead of tracks.

Panzerknacker
04-27-2009, 05:35 PM
Well probably not in the usage doctrine, but in the shape definately there is some reminiscence. The machine was 8,25 m long, 2,9 m meters wide and 2,6 meters tall.

http://i42.tinypic.com/hx0jo0.jpg

Panzerknacker
04-28-2009, 08:01 PM
Kleiner funk und Beobachtungspanzer UE.

http://i43.tinypic.com/34g2f0n.jpg

The complete name of this tiny vehicle was kleiner funk und beobachtungspanzer auf Infanterieschlepper UE. Little radio and observation armored vehicle over a infatry tractor UE. The UE "chenillette" was a french design used to carry munition to the front under combat conditions. A large quantity of them fell in german hands after France capitulation. 40 were converted in this variant by the Baukommando Becker in late 1942.

Its was used mostly for training artillery observation crews and for support the self moving artillery in some anti-invation exercises in Northern France, but evidently due its small size and little armor the combat capabilities were extremely limited.

http://i39.tinypic.com/73knzc.jpg

Type: radio liason and artillery observation armored vehicle.

engine : renault 4 cilinders 2,1 liters 38 hp.

Armor: 6 mm max.

Lenght: 3,9 meters.

Suspension: leaf springs

Speed: 43 km/h

Weight: 3,8 metric tons.

Armament: none, equipped with Sf.14z scissors telescope and Fug 5 radio.

http://i40.tinypic.com/5y9gck.jpg

leccy
04-30-2009, 03:13 PM
PzKpfw III Ausf H mounted with 150mm s.I.G.33 gun, North Africa.

The conversion was done by German troops in North Africa, who converted damaged Panzerkampfwagen III Ausf H to 150mm s.I.G.33 gun carrier by using components (such as gun itself, gun shield, superstructure sides with tool stowage and ammunition racks) from Sturmpanzer II Bison

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/p3h150.jpg

This U-Panzer belonged to the 18th Panzer Division’s 18th Panzer Regiment. This photo was taken during the crossing of the River Bug at Patulin on 22nd June of 1941. During the preparation for invasion of England - Operation Seelöwe (Sealion), Panzer III and Panzer IVwere converted into submersible tanks able to travel on the bottom of body of water at the depths of 6 to 15 meters. From June to October of 1940, 160 Panzer III Ausf F/G/H and 8 Panzerbefehlswagen III Ausf E along with 42 Panzer IV Ausf Ds were converted into U-Panzers / Tauchpanzers. After extensive tests and modifications U-Panzer were ready for action. Since Operation Sealion was never realized, Tauchpanzer IIIs and IVs were used during Operation Barbarossa (crossing river Bug at Patulin), in service with 3rd (6th Panzer Regiment) and 18th Panzer Division. It was also planned to use U-Panzers in never realized invasion on the island of Malta.

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/177b.jpg

Panzerknacker
04-30-2009, 05:42 PM
Interesting, that Panzer III field variant was object of a heated debate in other forum, some people said it was factory made but the truth is actually was an Afrika korps custom armored vehicle.

Panzerknacker
05-03-2009, 01:36 PM
Bruckenleger II

Bridge layer based upon an Panzerkampfwagen II ausf F chassis. Requested by the Waffeamt in early 1939. 4 manufactured by Krupp and M.A.N.

The bridge could be extended up to 12 meters and could withstand 8 tons. 3 Bruckenleger II were used in the invation of Poland.

http://i40.tinypic.com/r9e4bk.jpg

Panzerknacker
05-18-2009, 08:28 AM
Raupenschlepper Ost

http://i43.tinypic.com/idgpdx.jpg

Literally "Crawling Tractor - East", is more commonly abbreviated to RSO. This fully tracked, lightweight vehicle was conceived in response to the poor performance of wheeled and half-tracked vehicles in the mud and snow during the Wehrmacht's first winter on the Soviet Front. It may have been inspired by very similar full-tracked small tractors in use in other armies, most notably the Red Army's STZ-3 NATI artillery tractor.
The engina was a Deutz diesel 3,3 liters and 80hp, max speed 28km/h.

It was developed by Steyr during 1942 and used the transmission of the standard 1 ½ - tonne Truck. The suspension was entirely tracked, though of crude design, which gave rise to excessive vibration in service. The suspension wheels were of steel, without rubber tyres, and springing was by quarter-elliptic leaf springs.


http://i39.tinypic.com/23kt9o7.jpg

Ground clearance was 55cm (21 ½-in), which allowed the vehicle to keep moving in the worst conditions. RSO tractors were to replace all light halftracked tractors. RSO/01 was produced from 1942 and RSO/03 from 1944. Both types were used to the end of the war. They were mainly used to tow 50mm and 75mm Pak guns, light howitzers and even 88mm Pak 43 guns in Volksgrenadier units.
Over 28000 vehicles were produced by Steyr, Klockner-Deutz-Magirus, Wanderer and others from 1942 to 1945.

http://i40.tinypic.com/dztrmg.jpg

Panzerknacker
05-20-2009, 05:48 PM
Aditional images of the Raupenschlepper ost, 1st series, simplified second series and ambulance variant.

http://i42.tinypic.com/34g3s4o.jpg


http://i42.tinypic.com/23mtrw4.jpg


http://i44.tinypic.com/30m9xtx.jpg


http://i39.tinypic.com/sxzr0i.jpg

Ivaylo
05-22-2009, 08:00 AM
Very interesting maybe if the Wehrmacht was equiped all with such vechiles instead trucks and half-tracks there wouldn't be such big problem with supplies and movement of troops who knows . :)

Panzerknacker
05-22-2009, 05:40 PM
Surely could go above every ground but probably it was too slow for a quick deployment of forces in such wide front.

Panzerknacker
06-15-2009, 06:21 PM
Gepanzerte Munitionsschlepper (VK302)

http://i39.tinypic.com/191fe0.jpg
As early as September of 1937, orders were made to develop fully-tracked armored ammunition carrier. Prototype of VK302 armored ammunition carrier (Sonderschlepper BIII) was produced in 1940. At first, 20 vehicles were ordered followed by 100 vehicles but only 28 were produced from October of 1941 to January of 1942 by Borgward. The machine was powered by a Borgward 6 cilinders 49h engine. It had a lenght of 3,9 meters and could carry 4500 rounds of packed 7,92mm ammunition up to 50 km/h. Maximun armor 14mm.

Borgward VK 302 in action ( wochenschau 678 late 1943)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zsUyPhnXvQ

tankgeezer
06-16-2009, 06:13 AM
Was this vehicle an answer to the Cardin-Lloyd Bren gun carrier?

Panzerknacker
06-16-2009, 05:06 PM
A sort of, but as you can see the numbers produced were laughable.

Panzerknacker
09-03-2009, 09:37 PM
Grosser funk und Beobachtungspanzer auf Lorraine Schlepper.

Atractive looking vehicle based upon the french Lorraine infantry supply/tractor.

http://i27.tinypic.com/263db4g.jpg

30 examples were made by Kommando becker, this special panzer was covered by an maximum 16 mm rolled weldedarmor with a 3 men crew, it task was artillery observation, recce and liason by radio with Luftwaffe units. Armament consisted only in a single MG 34 or 42 plus 1 x MP-40 and some handgrenades.

The vehicle entered in action in the Normandy campaing and most oh them were destroyed two months after D-day. Its weight was 5,6 tons and it was powered by a 6 cilinders, 70 hp renault.

http://i26.tinypic.com/2ce0kjs.jpg

VonWeyer
09-04-2009, 02:56 AM
It looks quite modern for its day. A very good looking vehicle.

Panzerknacker
09-04-2009, 05:22 PM
Atractive but quite underpowered.

VonWeyer
09-07-2009, 01:33 AM
Do you think that is why they never really got into service?

Panzerknacker
09-07-2009, 05:47 PM
No, actually it managed to saw some service, in a limited quantity, look at my post again.

VonWeyer
09-08-2009, 01:27 AM
Grosser funk und Beobachtungspanzer auf Lorraine Schlepper.


The vehicle entered in action in the Normandy campaing and most oh them were destroyed two months after D-day. Its weight was 5,6 tons and it was powered by a 6 cilinders, 70 hp renault.



I suppose by then it was to late in the war for Germany to manufacture more?

Panzerknacker
09-08-2009, 08:55 AM
Yes, they run out of Lorraraine S chassis, this base was used for an APCV, and an self propelled 105 howitzer and 150mm infantry gun plus a variant of the Marder tankhunter with 75mm Pak 40.


This observation vehicle ( the Grosser one) was manufactured in late 1942, early 1943. Not a single one escaped from the Falaise Pocket.

VonWeyer
09-08-2009, 09:28 AM
That's a shame. So you could say that it is extinct!;)

Panzerknacker
09-08-2009, 05:29 PM
Sure thing, probably their rusted steel is nurturing some french farms.

DavidW
11-08-2009, 02:03 PM
Panzerknacker.

That's agreat photo of the AfrikaKorps Famo on page 3 of this thread!
I've been looking for one in service in North Africa for ages, without any luck.
Where did you get it from?

Panzerknacker
11-08-2009, 04:29 PM
In no other place than here:

http://www.afrikakorps.org

flamethrowerguy
11-21-2009, 06:25 AM
Another recent one from the photo site I've never seen or heard of before:

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/352902-2/Selbstfahrlafette+f__r+28-32+W__rfrahmen+auf+UE_f_+-+21
"Selbstfahrlafette für 28-32cm Wurfrahmen auf UE(f)", means the Wurfrahmen 40 on a French Renault UE Chenillette tankette.

Patdau
11-22-2009, 05:46 AM
This is a variant of the Wurfrahmen 40 , a captured ex-French Renault UE Chenillette with rocket artillery to form a more mobile and slightly more protected artillery piece than the towed Nebelwerfer (was nicknamed Stuka zu Fuss).

The weapon consisted of frames attached to the sides or rear of the vehicle holding 300 mm high explosive (HE) rockets; 280 mm HE and 320 mm incendiary rockets were also used.

flamethrowerguy
11-22-2009, 05:56 AM
I was wondering about the efficiency of these mounted rocket weapons since they were known for their lacking accuracy. Usually they were used in large numbers only.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/45041-6/wurfger__t

ubc
11-22-2009, 02:46 PM
Actually the UE-630/ Wg40/41 combination made alot of sence. Germany captured 3200 out of 6000 of these tankettes in working order and true to form only about 1/3 were convertted to various roles.

They had little utiltity other than an surogate PAK hauler and some policing vehicle. But in combination with the rocket they could have used up all these rocket frames and given each infantry division going into Barbarossa a battery of 20-30 AFVs to be attached to the Engineer battalion to overwhelm any strong point defense/fortification.

One of the main problems with utilizing the Wg40 rockets was they only had a 2km range and troops would have to set them up manually in full view of the enemy. On a mobile protected chassi they could be armed en mass and then brought into prearranged firing position quickely to be launched en mass for maxiumum effect.

In Barbarossa one of the main things that held up the infantry armies was having to reduce the various and numerous pockets of enemy resistance. A tool like this would help to speed up that process.

Panzerknacker
11-22-2009, 09:13 PM
Nice adition FlameT, is that Rommel in the center ? If is he doesnt look very convinced.

A profile of the rocket armed Chenillete

http://i49.tinypic.com/rhmkut.jpg

flamethrowerguy
11-23-2009, 01:25 AM
Actually the UE-630/ Wg40/41 combination made alot of sence. Germany captured 3200 out of 6000 of these tankettes in working order and true to form only about 1/3 were convertted to various roles.

They had little utiltity other than an surogate PAK hauler and some policing vehicle. But in combination with the rocket they could have used up all these rocket frames and given each infantry division going into Barbarossa a battery of 20-30 AFVs to be attached to the Engineer battalion to overwhelm any strong point defense/fortification.

One of the main problems with utilizing the Wg40 rockets was they only had a 2km range and troops would have to set them up manually in full view of the enemy. On a mobile protected chassi they could be armed en mass and then brought into prearranged firing position quickely to be launched en mass for maxiumum effect.

In Barbarossa one of the main things that held up the infantry armies was having to reduce the various and numerous pockets of enemy resistance. A tool like this would help to speed up that process.

As mentioned this weapon was quite effective when used in large numbers.
When mounted on the tankette salvos of 4 rockets could be fired (6 on the Sd.Kfz. 251/1). Additionally a lot of vehicles were needed to assure the ammo supply. One Wurfkörper 28cm (wooden frame included) had a total weight of app. 112 kg (247 lbs).

flamethrowerguy
11-23-2009, 01:27 AM
Nice adition FlameT, is that Rommel in the center ? If is he doesnt look very convinced.

Right, photo was taken during Rommel's inspection of 21st Panzer-Division at Rouen/France on May 18, 1944...and yes, he does look sceptically.

Panzerknacker
11-23-2009, 06:34 PM
Jawhol, that face say it all.

3,7 cm Flak 43 on Heavy Wehrmacht Tractor.

This heavy tractor was armored and equiped with the powerful flak 43 to create an aditional AAA mobile ( rather slow) plataform for the motorized units.

http://i47.tinypic.com/vxycgk.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/11k8b9g.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/2vd2s10.jpg

steben
11-24-2009, 01:45 AM
Why was the 3.7 Flak never developed as a tank canon?

Patdau
11-24-2009, 05:16 AM
Why was the 3.7 Flak never developed as a tank canon?

the Flak 37 was a version with a better aiming system but a team of 7 servants was necessary, which was a big problem in 1944.
In 1942, we considered for example that the destruction of a bombe required an average of 4 057 shells. But one needed more than 33 000 at the end of 1944. Also, the consumption of shells, estimated at 500 000 a month in 1941/42 was crossed in more than 3 millions a month. In 1944, more than two million of soldiers and civilians were bound directly or indirectly to the antiaircraft artillery, which absorbed 30 % of all the artillery and 20 % of all the shells produced during year.

steben
11-24-2009, 06:15 AM
the Flak 37 was a version with a better aiming system but a team of 7 servants was necessary, which was a big problem in 1944.
In 1942, we considered for example that the destruction of a bombe required an average of 4 057 shells. But one needed more than 33 000 at the end of 1944. Also, the consumption of shells, estimated at 500 000 a month in 1941/42 was crossed in more than 3 millions a month. In 1944, more than two million of soldiers and civilians were bound directly or indirectly to the antiaircraft artillery, which absorbed 30 % of all the artillery and 20 % of all the shells produced during year.

Seems logical.
Yet I wonder why the gun wasn't used on Tanks instead of the 37 Pak.
The 20mm Flak also demanded a lot of shells and crew, yet it served on a 3-man tank (Pz II).

Patdau
11-24-2009, 06:47 AM
Seems logical.
Yet I wonder why the gun wasn't used on Tanks instead of the 37 Pak.
The 20mm Flak also demanded a lot of shells and crew, yet it served on a 3-man tank (Pz II).

Sorry,I mean that it needs too many average human beings, money and required a relatively long time of implementation regard to Pak 37, without speaking about a necessary Famo to tow it.

ubc
11-24-2009, 02:44 PM
Seems logical.
Yet I wonder why the gun wasn't used on Tanks instead of the 37 Pak.
The 20mm Flak also demanded a lot of shells and crew, yet it served on a 3-man tank (Pz II).


I gather the 37mm gun mounted on the Stuka and other ground attack planes was the flak 37 gun. So in a sence it was used against armor.

Panzerknacker
11-24-2009, 04:54 PM
Why was the 3.7 Flak never developed as a tank canon

No, why they would ?, the AP performances of it were marginal. 36mm at 150 meters and 28 mm at 600 meters ( plate sloped 30º)

The only real use was with hard core tugsten ammunition in the BK 3,7 used by Sutkas and Hs-129.

If you are thinking in a fully auromatic weapon for use in recce tanks ...I dont think the Flak 43 would be very easy to fit inside a normal panzer turret.


the Flak 37 was a version with a better aiming system but a team of 7 servants was necessary, which was a big problem in 1944.
In 1942, we considered for example that the destruction of a bombe required an average of 4 057 shells. But one needed more than 33 000 at the end of 1944. Also, the consumption of shells, estimated at 500 000 a month in 1941/42 was crossed in more than 3 millions a month. In 1944, more than two million of soldiers and civilians were bound directly or indirectly to the antiaircraft artillery, which absorbed 30 % of all the artillery and 20 % of all the shells produced during year.


I think you are talking about the 8,8cm gun variant. We are talking about the 3,7cm Flak 43.

steben
11-25-2009, 01:39 AM
No, why they would ?, the AP performances of it were marginal. 36mm at 150 meters and 28 mm at 600 meters ( plate sloped 30º)

The 20 mm canon was used till the end though(penetration = 20mm @ 150m)... as was the single shot 37mm KwK/Pak (which has same performance as the 37 Flak)


If you are thinking in a fully auromatic weapon for use in recce tanks ...

Yes i was thinking of just that. ;)


I dont think the Flak 43 would be very easy to fit inside a normal panzer turret.


Maybe so. What about the Puma?

Panzerknacker
11-25-2009, 05:38 PM
Yes the Kwk 20mm was used till the end because it was afully automatic , relative light and uncomplicated weapon. But no because it was perfect. there were plans to replace the Kwk 38 with a special hiper-velocity (1280 mps) 2,8cm MK. This Mauser design had the advantage to be belft feed ( 10 round magazines in the 2c kwk 38) had a rate of fire of 350 rpm and penetrated 40 % more armor up to 1000 meters range. However the MK 2,8cm didnt entered in service, its panzergranate needed a tusgsten core ammo for correct performance and Germany simply havent enough suppply of it to arm light caliber weapons.

The 2,8 cm MK did fit in two man turret ( as the Leopard and Luchs) perfectly. Actually wa sproposed to be the main weapon of the Luchs in 1941. A photo of it first and second prototipe.

http://i49.tinypic.com/b9ivir.jpg


Maybe so. What about the Puma?

dont think so, the Puma armored car used the same turret of the Leopard with some small modification in its turret ring. Again it was a 2 man turret, the flak 43 37mm was manually loaded with 8 rounds clips....by 2 loaders, complicated. Look the size of the turret in the only fully tracked panzer armed with this, the Ostwind.

http://i46.tinypic.com/6pnkpe.jpg

steben
11-26-2009, 01:27 AM
Yet they placed the 50/L60 canon in the Puma no?
I find it hard to understand why - if not a 37mm - a 50mm canon with 3 meter barrel indeed can be fit without to much problems.

Tungsten: true, that's exactly what I'm talking about. The Germans couldn't afford small bore technicals on a large scale because of this. Even the long used 20mm was at it best with tungsten. Long barreled high velocity guns and even APFS helped a lot more.
The "Light" Czech T35/T38 with their 37mm canon where quite the relief as early as on the western Blitzkrieg in which they gave the light tank platoons needed firepower.

It is astonishing to see how easy the Germans could have (but didn't) adopted Allied concepts to make the effort less hard. The Russians and Americans main tank was for a long while a sturdy box of metal with a relative low velocity, big bore gun. Both had small lighter tanks/AFV with or the same gun (think of M8) or with a somewhat smaller gun (37, 40 , 47mm). As soon as the 20mm on light and 37 mm gun on medium tanks became obsolete, the Germans should have upgunned ALL vehicles with a simple design to shoot plain APC. The Panzer II could have had a 75mm/L24 with minor mods. The Panzer III version N could have been earlier.

Panzerknacker
11-26-2009, 04:08 PM
Well the kwk 39 is loaded from the breech, that is from the rear of the gun. As you can see the 3,7 Flak is loaded form the sides with a qyuite large clip. In order to fit and operated in a enclosed turret the 43 would need a redisigned feed system like belt feed, there was a projekt for a 37mm belt feed ( flak 44) but usual never come.

Tugsten was always problematic, all production of the tugsten core ( usually denominated PzG 40 ) ammo with caliber below 37mm was terminated in 1943.

Panzerknacker
01-10-2010, 12:51 PM
Afrika Korps Special PanzerJäger

Unique antitank halftrack. Extracted from"Rommel Funnies" Panzer Tracts series.

http://i46.tinypic.com/zspqah.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/8ywf7t.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/11ih79x.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/50jo77.jpg

snebold
01-16-2010, 04:48 AM
always liked the looks of that one

have you found any pictures of the first 3 prototypes?

Panzerknacker
01-17-2010, 01:48 PM
3 protos was the full production, if you mean prototypes in the factory, well I have not.

Splinter54
07-18-2010, 12:53 PM
Hello,

seems to be a Pz. I Brückenleger.
Interessting mechanics though.

http://i28.tinypic.com/2jgzyf.jpg

Best regards :)

Panzerknacker
07-18-2010, 01:35 PM
It was kind of a extreme measure to put a bridge on that small chassis. The bridge hardly can bear 7 tons.

Panzerknacker
07-27-2010, 09:28 PM
Panzerbeobachtungswagen III

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9061/artillero0py.jpg

In november 1942 the German High attempted to obtain Panthers for the devoted task of fordward artillery observation. The proposed vehicle was a very specialiced variant of the Panzer V, with a turret designed by Rheinmetall in collaboration with Krupp and Anschütz. The Panzerbeobachstung Panther could provide precise observation up to 12000 meters, accurate range reading up to 7000 meters and could even to draw useful topographic maps when there were not artillery charts available.

Despite the pleas the production the Pzbcht Panther was not allowed to continue , mainly because the refusal of Guderian, appointed inspector of the armored corps in early 1943, to "waste" precious panther Chassis for the artillery brach. The Artilley High Command had to content with a cheaper vehicle based on the trusty pz III.

The Sd.Kfz.143 had a crew of five and was equipped with powerful Fu 3 and Fu 8 radio equipment. The Fu 8 withthe characteristic star antenna had an 20 km range. It could be used for liason with observation aircrafts like the Hs 126, Fi-156 and FW-189 in order to obtain a better panorama of the battlefield.

Panzerbeobachtungswagen III had a dummy gun mounted and in the place of original gun, Kugelblende (ballmount) for a 7.92mm MG34 machine gun was installed. The armament was only an MG 34 pzl 2 MP 40s and some grenades. 2 observation periscopes ,TSR 1 and TBF 1 with 6x magnification and a "mules deer" rangefinder were provided for the crew. Both the TSR and TBF could be used with the turret fully "buttoned up".
From February of 1942 to April of 1944, 262 Panzerkampfwagen III Ausf E/F/Gs were up-armored and converted into Artillerie Panzerbeobachtungswagen III (Sd.Kfz.143) - observation vehicles which served with Wespe and Hummel batteries until the end of the war. The main contractor of this special panzer was Deutsche Eisenwerke of Duisberg.

4533

Panzerknacker
08-01-2010, 01:35 PM
3 more photos of the Panzer Beo III; in the first the fake gun could be clearly seen, and I dont think they actually deceive anybody ...

http://forum.valka.cz/files/thumbs/t_26_3_532.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4471/59vy2.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/PzBeobWg_III.jpg

Uyraell
08-05-2010, 01:27 AM
Panzerknacker, I'm curious about photo 1.

It seems the driver's and bow-gunner's roof hatches are absent from the vehicle.
Was the only access therefore via the commander's hatch and the turret side-doors, or were the hull hatches between the tracks still in place on this model of the chassis?
I know the hull hatches were eliminated in the later marks of both Pz3 and Pz4, but had no clue before seeing photo 1 here that the roof hatches in the hull had been omitted or plated over.

I find that to be a very strange thing.

Kind and Respectful Regards Panzerknacker, Uyraell.

Panzerknacker
08-05-2010, 04:25 PM
It seems the driver's and bow-gunner's roof hatches are absent from the vehicle.

The Panzer III chassis was kind of small so it never had roof hatches for MG gunner and driver. The Panzer IV did because it was a more roomy chassis. The large side acess doors in the turret sides are used to get in the vehicle by the turret crew and chasis panzersoldat as well.

Uyraell
08-05-2010, 10:41 PM
Thank you Panzerknacker my friend. I've a much better understanding of it now.
Looking back, I didn't often see images of panzers from above, so had no idea the bow-overhead hatches had not existed in the PZ3 series.
I did know some had hatches in the glacis plate, but had thought that to be more often seen in the Pz4 series vehicles.

Kind and Respectful Regards, Uyraell.

jungleguerilla
08-05-2010, 10:59 PM
On Photo 3: Now with it's own Zimmerit! Love it Panzerknacker!

Panzerknacker
08-06-2010, 05:48 PM
Thank you Panzerknacker my friend. I've a much better understanding of it now.
Looking back, I didn't often see images of panzers from above, so had no idea the bow-overhead hatches had not existed in the PZ3 series.
I did know some had hatches in the glacis plate, but had thought that to be more often seen in the Pz4 series vehicles.

The Panzer III had two small hatches forward to the emplacemente of the hull crew, those were for inspecting the drum brakes. that might be the ones causing some mistake.



On Photo 3: Now with it's own Zimmerit! Love it Panzerknacker!

Do you think so ?, I think the only Variant of the Panzer III ever use zimmerit was the L

DavidW
08-06-2010, 05:50 PM
I think the only Variant of the Panzer III ever use zimmerit was the L

& the Ausf M i.i.r.c

Panzerknacker
08-06-2010, 06:42 PM
Yea that too, but definately is not the tank most associated with the anti magnetic paste.

By the early variants of the Panzer III had other way to exit.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5113/dibujofqz.jpg

Uyraell
08-07-2010, 08:01 AM
It was kind of a extreme measure to put a bridge on that small chassis. The bridge hardly can bear 7 tons.
Panzerknacker, just a thought, but could it be that the "bridge" on the PZ1 chassis is not a bridge in the true sense, but simply a ramp to the actual bridge as would have been carried on the Brueckenlaeger IV chassis?
I seem to recall in Guderian's book "mobile ramps" are mentioned.
My thought is that perhaps the PZ1 chassis we see here is one of those ramps.

If it is a ramp, it doesn't really have to bear the weight for long, be it 7 tons or otherwise, and in any case, the mobility of the ramp is secondary once the bridge itself has been crossed by the vehicles that need to use it, meaning the PZ1 chassis is in effect disposable if need be.

I admit this is a somewhat speculative thought, but it seems to fit the deployment method for the bridging vehicle-proper.
To my mind, it makes sense.

Kind and Respectful Regards my friend, Uyraell.

Uyraell
08-07-2010, 11:58 AM
The Panzer III had two small hatches forward to the emplacemente of the hull crew, those were for inspecting the drum brakes. that might be the ones causing some mistake.


Do you think so ?, I think the only Variant of the Panzer III ever use zimmerit was the L

Thinking about that, you may well be correct PK, my friend.
I recall seeing those hatches in the glacis in some illustrations, and have certainly seen captions decribing those hatches as crew exits. I also recall reading of a debate in a treadhead forum that the hatches were inspection hatches only, as you state in your post. I'm inclined to take your view of it, because it would take an "Extremely Motivated" man to be able to contort his body at speed to exit a Pz 3 via one of the glacis hatches, and try as I might, I cannot envisage him succeeding.

Many years ago I sat in the driver's position in a Valentine tank.
Granted, no Pz3, but the same age vehicle in design terms, with many of the same design limits.
Leaving the Valentine is not an easy task. Leaving it in a hurry would be vastly less so.
That experience showed me how dreadfully difficult it would be to exit the vehicle were it on fire, for example, and while the flames and potential explosion of the tank would provide great motivation as regards speed of exit, it would also hinder that same exit, especially were the man having to contort himself around various very hot components in the process.

Kind and Respectful Regards Panzerknacker my friend, Uyraell.

Panzerknacker
08-07-2010, 04:54 PM
Thinking about that, you may well be correct PK, my friend.
I recall seeing those hatches in the glacis in some illustrations, and have certainly seen captions decribing those hatches as crew exits. I also recall reading of a debate in a treadhead forum that the hatches were inspection hatches only, as you state in your post. I'm inclined to take your view of it, because it would take an "Extremely Motivated" man to be able to contort his body at speed to exit a Pz 3 via one of the glacis hatches, and try as I might, I cannot envisage him succeeding

The good thing is that when you tank caught fire and the flames start heating the ammuniton you always find the correct motivation to jump out of it, he,he. Of course if you a are a big panzer man ora fat british tank crew you might found some trouble, and yes even in that spciellay designed side exits. ;)



Panzerknacker, just a thought, but could it be that the "bridge" on the PZ1 chassis is not a bridge in the true sense, but simply a ramp to the actual bridge as would have been carried on the Brueckenlaeger IV chassis?
I seem to recall in Guderian's book "mobile ramps" are mentioned.
My thought is that perhaps the PZ1 chassis we see here is one of those ramps.

Yes is spossible, actually so far I know an special "sturmsteg" assault ladder to be deployed over thick barber wire or above the bunkers roof, however that was emplaced on bigger Panzer IV chassis. This ( Pz I ) seems a more limited budget variant.

Sturmsteg panzer

http://www.panzer4.by.ru/IMG/Mod35.jpg

ericadeane
08-08-2010, 12:54 AM
Speaking with a Pz III veteran, he definitely spoke about the driver and radio operator needing to exit through the turret hatches. The brake inspection hatches were not an option for them and crews knew that to be a severe weakness in the Pz III design.

Uyraell
08-08-2010, 02:29 AM
Interesting that one of the roadwheels is the pic you post here is absent.
This suggest two things.
A: that chassis is not going to be mobile, or even capable of being mobile, for very much longer.
B: that chassis is vastly, heavily overloaded, to the point of being near collapse.

As a matter of interest my friend, you posted earlier about how the German Special purpose panzers were often over-loaded in the suspension.
The pic above demonstrates that with extreme clarity.

Kind and Respectful Regards PK, my friend, Uyraell.

leccy
08-08-2010, 05:18 AM
Looks like the whole front suspension assembly is missing on one side at least, not good or easy to drive especially with the weight of the top hamper looking like it is mostly towards the front.

Having driven armoured vehicles with broken torsion suspension bars, overloaded front heavy mine ploughs and short tracked (missing track adjuster/idler wheel) I pity the bloke having to move that even a short distance.

Panzerknacker
08-08-2010, 01:10 PM
Interesting that one of the roadwheels is the pic you post here is absent.
This suggest two things.
A: that chassis is not going to be mobile, or even capable of being mobile, for very much longer.
B: that chassis is vastly, heavily overloaded, to the point of being near collapse.


You forgot the option C, it stepped over a landmine and the section was blow off ;), I think the tracks was Re-ensembled for phot pusposes only, but that tank is under repair for sure.



Looks like the whole front suspension assembly is missing on one side at least, not good or easy to drive especially with the weight of the top hamper looking like it is mostly towards the front.

Having driven armoured vehicles with broken torsion suspension bars, overloaded front heavy mine ploughs and short tracked (missing track adjuster/idler wheel) I pity the bloke having to move that even a short distance


Incidentally the Panzer III ride ( with all the torsion bars in place ) was noted as comfortable, unlike the hard leaf springs in the Pz Iv ths suspesion in the Mark III was designed by Doktor Porsche. somewhat luxurious for a massed production tank.

leccy
08-08-2010, 04:50 PM
For recovery of armoured vehicles with missing road/idler wheels and/or top rollers we used to put the track back on with maybe a few links removed so that we could drive them at least some way to a more suitable area for repair, low loader or tow.

Always makes me wonder why so many armoured vehicles had front driving sprockets but rear engines with a transmission having to fit through the hull. The notable exception seems to be Soviet tanks.

Panzerknacker
08-08-2010, 06:21 PM
For recovery of armoured vehicles with missing road/idler wheels and/or top rollers we used to put the track back on with maybe a few links removed so that we could drive them at least some way to a more suitable area for repair, low loader or tow.

Well, that is quite feasible too.


Always makes me wonder why so many armoured vehicles had front driving sprockets but rear engines with a transmission having to fit through the hull. The notable exception seems to be Soviet tanks.

It was always seen more logical the motor to "pull" the tracks, instead "pushing" them, that is why
you see always big russians tank like the VK-1 or JS- 2 with ( apparently) loose tracks. In the end it didnt make a lot of difference


Führungpanzer III

Panzer III ausf G or H with aditional radio equipment for guiding remore controlled explosive loaded vehicles like the Sd.Kfz 300/301. 70 converted in 1942-43, used by F.K battallions.


http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8517/breda30.jpg

Panzerknacker
08-15-2010, 04:41 PM
Leichter Reheinwerfer SOMUA MCG

In early 1943 the Generalfeldmarschall Rommel, just arriving from the African teather of operation was put in charge of inspecting the defensive worthiness of the Atlantic Wall. From Rommel s inspiration came a number of special panzers whom are little known even today. One of the first request of Rommel was for a movable plataform capable to deliver a rain of mortar shells on the beachheads.


http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7785/reheinwerfer1.jpg
This armoured vehicles manufactured to fullfill this requeriment had a weird looking shape, mostly because they were erected over a captured French MCG artillery tractor of the Societe d`Outillage Mecanique et Usinage d`Artillerie ( society of machine tools and artillery manufacturing) mostly know as SOMUA.
Its engine and driver compartiment were cover by armoured plate to withstand rifle fire. 16 tubes of “8cm granatwerfer” (literally grenade throwers) were emplaced over a steel turntable. The 16 pieces were muzzleloaders and could turn 360 º and fire in a 16 shots salvo or two salvoes of 8 shells each.

The normal vehicle crew was 4, driver, two loaders and aimer/ vehicle chief. Max muzzle velocity of the 80mm projectile 224 mps, max range 2700 meters. Some 36 L.Rw.Somua halftracks were completed inside Alkett facilities by the “Baukommando Becker” between april and july 1943.


http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/2217/reheinwerfer2l.jpg
Characteristics Light Grenade thrower on SOMUA MGC:

Engine. 6 cilinders gasoline SOMUA 105 hp.

Weight: 6100 kg

Suspension: leaf spring

Armor: 8-9mm

Speed: 45 km/h

leccy
08-15-2010, 06:49 PM
Firing a salvo of eight seems an awkward way for the fire control blokes to direct the fire. Would have made more sense to have ripple fire or an ability to fire one round at a time.

Firing all 16 must have compressed the suspension quite abit so maybe accuracy was not too good especially when firing 16 rounds over nearly 3 km.

Uyraell
08-15-2010, 08:13 PM
Firing a salvo of eight seems an awkward way for the fire control blokes to direct the fire. Would have made more sense to have ripple fire or an ability to fire one round at a time.

Firing all 16 must have compressed the suspension quite abit so maybe accuracy was not too good especially when firing 16 rounds over nearly 3 km.

It was essentially an improvised "stonk" system, much as the use of "hedgehog" from tanks on land was for British forces.
Accuracy wasn't quite so critical as for an artillery stonk for example, because the system PK shows in the photo was an area weapon in any case, and the beaten zone of impact was measured in tens of square yards rather than smaller units.

Basically, though smaller and vastly more mobile, this German system has more in common with the British "Matress" (the LCM with multiple hedgehog launchers, as employed at Walcheren, for example) bombardment system than it does with a conventional mortar role.

Panzerknacker, a very neat posting, my friend, thoroughly enjoyable.
From memory, I don't think more than approximately 150 Somua-Kegresse vehicles were converted as this image shows.
Have you confirmation of the number of conversions?

Kind and Respectful Regards Leccy my friend, Uyraell.

leccy
08-16-2010, 04:46 AM
I was thinking that maybe an ability to fire one round and watch for fall then let loose with the rest 'suitable adjusted' may have made it a bit more useful.
That then really depends also on the type of munitions and blast radius they have as to whether it is necessary, with a range of 2.7km maybe it was used to just kill an area.
Interestingly it seems to have a sighting system fitted to the rear of the tubes so maybe that is a good enough targeting mechanism for this weapon.

Panzerknacker
08-16-2010, 04:09 PM
It possible that kind of employment be more useful, but if you want to fire just one and then correct is for more prectical to had simply a mortar carring armored vehicle attached to the infantry platoon, the multiple tube requeriment was crucial because a large salvo was needed.

This vehicle was also intended to be employed in a well known area, area in wich the topographic adjustments for an artillery piece were already known.

Panzerknacker
08-16-2010, 05:12 PM
From memory, I don't think more than approximately 150 Somua-Kegresse vehicles were converted as this image shows.
Have you confirmation of the number of conversions?
.

The number of this model were 36, also some 20 units of the "heavy" mortar launcher were converted.


http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1066/reheinwerfer3.jpg


The "base" halftrack was an artillery tractor, look like this. Not the best looking but still a solid, reliable machine.

http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/s/somuaMCG.jpg

Uyraell
08-16-2010, 07:49 PM
Many Thanks Panzerknacker my friend.
Years ago I was hurriedly reading an article on these. Felt I may have mis-recalled the number converted.

Kind and Respectful Regards my friend Panzerknacker, Uyraell.

Panzerknacker
08-20-2010, 09:13 AM
Many Thanks Panzerknacker my friend.
Years ago I was hurriedly reading an article on these. Felt I may have mis-recalled the number converted.

Kind and Respectful Regards my friend Panzerknacker, Uyraell.

No problem mate:

MIttlerer Flampanzerwagen Sd. Kfz 521/16.

http://www.lonesentry.com/ordnance/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/sdkfz-251-16-flammpanzer.jpg

The medium sized flamethrower was based on a well know Sd.Kfz 251 halftrack and made on request of Eastern front commanders. The Flammpanzerwagen was to be used in bush or closed country to attack enemy infantry in wooden bunkers, trenches or to burn down houses and buildings in the urban combat.

This special panzer gave a considerable boost to the firepower in the infantry zug ( platoon) but given the short range of the flame launcher made it was vulnerable to antitank rifle fire and relegated actions in open country to night ot low light hours.

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/320/bundesarchivbild101i281.jpg

Its device consisted in a 30 hp two stroke engine to pump the "flammöl" burning fuel ( a mixture of low octane gasoline and mineral oil). There were two flamethorwers , one with a 14mm diameter muzzle and a range of 50 meters. And other with a 7mm diameter muzzle and a range of 40 meters. Firing the two pipes at the same time was nor recomended since it downsized the range of each muzzle.
Is not precisely know how many of this incendiary variant haltrack were made but is stimated in 1000 to 1200 all completed the firm Wesserhütte.

Sd.Kfz 251 / 16:

Engine : Maybach 6 cilinders 100 hp

Armor: 14, 5mm to 8mm

Armament: 2 flamethrowers, 2 MP 40 with 392 rounds, 1 MG 34 or MG 42 with 2100 rounds. 20 stick hand grenades.

Speed: 50 km/h

Weight: 8650 kg.

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/320/bundesarchivbild101i281.jpg

flamethrowerguy
08-20-2010, 06:15 PM
Note "special" protection clothing of the 251/16 crews:

Panzerknacker
08-22-2010, 04:26 PM
Note "special" protection clothing of the 251/16 crews:
That definately gave them a modern soldier looking, remember me the protective clothing used by the uS army in the 1991 desert Storm .


http://www.antraspasaulinis.net/uploader7/failai/sdkfz25116.jpg

Nickdfresh
08-22-2010, 05:14 PM
The open top configuration looks like a sniper's wet-dream though...

Panzerknacker
09-02-2010, 07:50 PM
The open top configuration looks like a sniper's wet-dream though...

Indeed but the schutzenpanzerwagen was a good improvement over the classical transport of teh infantry, his feet.

Selbstfahrlafette für 28/32 cm Wurfrahamen auf Infanterieschlepper UE

Quite long name for a really small vehicle. Using the large amount of UE this movable projectiles launchers is based on the light UE armoured chassis and it had a very specific function, to deliver a burst of hevy rockets over an allied beachhead once they reached any part of the French northern coast.

The “wurfrahamen”, launching frame was light and very simple structure and could be adjusted for elevation for but have no azimuth at all. The rockets were to be aimed turning the entire vehicle. The heavy german artillery rockets were spin-stabilized with a range of 1800 meters (280mm variant) and 2000 meters ( 320 mm variant), once they landed on its target the effective explosive radius was stimated in 50 meters.

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/1762/wurf3.jpg

In any case it wasnt spected to use this tiny panzer in first line, his function was to deliver an salvo of rockets and quickly retire to cover/ reload in a safe area.

Between 40-50 of this small special panzer were in service in the years 1943-44.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3753/wurf1.jpg

Panzerknacker
01-05-2012, 08:42 AM
Gepanzerter-Munitions Zugkraftwagen MCG

Armored munition carrier. A tipical german rebuild vehicle, based on the trusty Somua 5 ton halftrack. The chassis and cabin were fully covered with 8mm chrome-moly steel plate. A total of 48 build in 1943 and used to support the 75 mm pak self propelled tank-hunters of the panzer-sturmbrigade 200 operating in the defensive front of the Atlantic Wall, north of France.

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/3931/muni1.jpg
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/8817/muni2.jpg

Weight of the entire panzer was about 8,8 tons