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kallinikosdrama1992
12-11-2007, 08:50 AM
I think that dive bombers where a great gun for the navy .
But i want you to write and vote which you believe was the best

kallinikosdrama1992
12-11-2007, 09:08 AM
Well for me the best was the Ju-87 Stuka . Especially The D version with the two tankbusters 37mm cannons fitted under the wings . It was devastating against the allied tanks in Northern Africa . After that i choose the SBD Dauntless and then the D3A Val and my last choise would be the Helldiver because it was to difficult to fly

Man of Stoat
12-11-2007, 10:24 AM
No mention of the British Skua?

Oh, that's right, because it was crap...

Nickdfresh
12-11-2007, 11:03 AM
We almost have to define what a "true" divebomber is. The Stuka was specifically to launch pinpoint attacks against small ground targets such as tanks and was based on what naval aviators had been doing since the 1920s. But these types of slow moving, specialized aircraft seemed to become largely obsolete by 1943 because of better AAA and were totally defenseless against fighters in the absence of total air superiority...

It also seems that P-47s or Tempests configured for ground-attack are just as effective in the role of tactical air strikes as a true "divebomber" was, and much more survivable...

Panther F
12-11-2007, 01:57 PM
While I think that the SBD Dauntless was not only the best dive bomber but it certainly made the most important contribution to the USA in the Pacific.

The Stuka was outdated shortly after the war started but it gets my two thumbs up for being the most feared by it's fear factor alone.

Heck, I have 2 1/18th scale Stukas hanging in my Hobby Room! :twisted:


Jeff

Panzerknacker
12-11-2007, 06:03 PM
Stuka or Dauntless, both very accurate machines and very important historically. Probably the most precise was the stuka since it could aim its bombs in a nearly 90 dive, but the Dauntless was more resilient to battle damage.


http://www.casusbelli.com.ar/aire/2gm/alemania/stuka-5.jpg



http://www.authentichistory.com/ww2/news/images/19420600_Midway-Dauntless_Divebomber.jpg

Firefly
12-12-2007, 04:22 AM
For me, its the Val. I dont know why but I just liked some of thier paint schemes I suppose.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal4/3401-3500/gal3439_Val_Workman/gal3439.htm

Chevan
12-12-2007, 04:40 AM
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal4/3401-3500/gal3439_Val_Workman/gal3439.htm

Oh that's a nice site Firefly.
Very interesting- i like the modelling of WW2 and at all.
BTW i think the Stuka was the best ( well at least most famouse and has played tha most significant role in war).

Chevan
12-12-2007, 04:51 AM
It also seems that P-47s or Tempests configured for ground-attack are just as effective in the role of tactical air strikes as a true "divebomber" was, and much more survivable...

I m agre the Tanderbolt was effective due it a lengthwise accuracy during the bomb attack.
But i rather doubt it was as effective and surviable as the specialiced groung-attacker like the Il-2 for instace.
The bomb attack is not the primary role for the any fighter( or even escort fighter).
The main lack of fighter (inspite of excellent speed) was a less firepower.As i remember the P-47 and Mystangs has the usially mashin-guns that was not so effective agains armored vehicles.
One of two little aircraft bomb was not able fully compansate.
For instance the Me-262 with his 4x30 mm gun should be very effective as the ground-attacker, but its enginnes were very sensitive for the any SINGLE bullet of aaa-artillery.

kallinikosdrama1992
12-12-2007, 08:09 AM
i absolutely agree about with Panzerknacker and also with Nickdfresh . But i think his wrong about the Tempest and the P-47 . They were going lower from very far and then unleash their rockets or bombs instead of the diving move of the dive bombers which loose their armament right above their targets . The Panzerknacker's foto of the Stuka is PERFECT

George Eller
12-12-2007, 09:09 AM
I m agre the Tanderbolt was effective due it a lengthwise accuracy during the bomb attack.
But i rather doubt it was as effective and surviable as the specialiced groung-attacker like the Il-2 for instace.
The bomb attack is not the primary role for the any fighter( or even escort fighter).
The main lack of fighter (inspite of excellent speed) was a less firepower.As i remember the P-47 and Mystangs has the usially mashin-guns that was not so effective agains armored vehicles.
One of two little aircraft bomb was not able fully compansate.
For instance the Me-262 with his 4x30 mm gun should be very effective as the ground-attacker, but its enginnes were very sensitive for the any SINGLE bullet of aaa-artillery.
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Regarding armor-piercing M2 .50 cal ammunition (19mm max penetration)
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=92027&postcount=109

Regarding P-47 Thunderbolt
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=108603&postcount=25

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Russian Designers of P-47 Thunderbolt:

Alexander Kartveli
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Kartveli


Alexander Kartveli (Georgian) 1896-1974, born Kartvelishvili) was one of the greatest aircraft engineers of the 20th century and a pioneer of American aviation.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/AlexanderKartveli.jpg

Kartveli was born in Tbilisi, Georgia, then in Russian Empire. He graduated from the Gymnasium in Tbilisi in 1914.

Kartveli graduated in 1922 from the Highest School of Aviation in Paris. In 1922-1927, he worked for a while at the Louis Bleriot Company and designed the "Bernard" and "Ferbois" aircraft . In 1924, one of his aircraft established a world speed record.

In 1927, American millionaire Charles Levine invited Kartveli to New York. In 1928 he joined the Fokker American Company. In 1931 Kartveli met well-known engineer Alexander de Seversky, who was also from Georgia, and became Chief Engineer at the Seversky Aircraft Corporation. In 1939 this Company changed its name to the "Republic Aviation Company".

Kartveli and Seversky created a series of aircraft and during World War II they designed one of its greatest planes, the Republic P-47.

After World War II, Kartveli designed well-known aircraft such as the Republic F-84 Thunderjet and the Republic F-105 Thunderchief.

Kartveli died in 1974, in New York.

Alexander Procofieff de Seversky
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_de_Seversky


Alexander Nikolaievich Prokofiev de Seversky (also Prokofiev-Seversky or DeSeversky), (June 7, 1894 – August 24, 1974) was a Russian-American aviation pioneer, inventor, and influential advocate of strategic air power.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/20/Alexander_P._de_Seversky.jpg

Biography

Of noble Russian parentage, Seversky was born in Tiflis. He served as a Russian naval aviator in World War I, lost a leg in combat, and continued to fly, shooting down six German aircraft. In 1917 he was in the U.S. as a member of the naval aviation mission and decided to stay. He worked as a test pilot and became an assistant to air power advocate General Billy Mitchell, aiding him in his push to prove airpower's ability to sink battleships. Seversky applied for and received the first patent for air-to-air refueling in 1921.

He was awarded the Order of St. George (4th Class); Order of St. Vladimir (4th Class); Order of St. Stanislaus (2nd & 3rd Class); Order of St. Anne (2nd; 3rd; and 4th class).

Seversky married New Orleans socialite and pilot Evelyn Oliphant (c1895-1967) in 1923; the two settled in New York City. [1] In 1927, he became a naturalized citizen of the United States.

He founded the Seversky Aircraft Corporation in 1931, but despite landing several government contracts the company was never able to turn a profit under his management; the Board of Directors voted him out and reorganized as the Republic Aviation Company, which was successful and produced many planes, including the famous Republic P-47 Thunderbolt. Republic was acquired by Fairchild in 1965.

Often described as "flamboyant" and a "showman," Seversky was always good at capturing the public eye, and was considered a newsworthy celebrity. In 1942 The New York Times considered it news that "Airplane Designer Rents Apartment: Major Seversky One Of Seven New Tenants in 40 Central Park South."

He was the author of the influential 1942 book, Victory Through Air Power, which Disney adapted into a motion picture. Seversky argued for the immediate development of long-range bombers, specifically intercontinental bombers capable of directly striking Germany and Japan from the U.S. without refueling. He urged the shift of manufacturing resources away from traditional land- and sea-based armaments and air-support aircraft and toward these bombers. He argued that existing U.S. strategy was futile and could not achieve victory, due to the disparity between the long supply lines needed by U.S. forces and the excellent interior communications within Germany and Japan. No matter how many machines and planes the U.S. threw at the Axis powers, they could withstand the assault by shrinking their defensive perimeter and concentrating their power. Seversky argued that direct bomber attacks from U.S.-based aircraft were the only way of administering a knockout blow. He acknowledged that shifting priorities to strategic air would reduce the strength of traditional forces, but argued that this would require only a temporary yielding of ground.

He was one of a number of strategic air advocates whose vision was realized in the 1946 creation of the Strategic Air Command and the development of aircraft such as the Convair B-36 and B-47 Stratojet. Seversky continued to publicize his ideas for innovative aircraft and weaponry, notably the 1964 Ionocraft which was to be a single-man aircraft powered by the ionic wind from a high-voltage discharge. A laboratory demonstration was acknowledged to require 90 watts to lift a two ounce (60 g) model, and no man-carrying version was ever built.

He was a trustee of The New York Institute of Technology, which in 1972 acquired an elegant mansion originally built by Alfred I. du Pont. It was renamed "The DeSeversky Center" in his honor, and is a popular venue for weddings.

His died in 1974, and was buried in the Woodlawn Cemetery in the Bronx.


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Chevan
12-13-2007, 12:50 AM
Oh George thank you
You know how to impress me and any one:)
Thank for infor about Kartavely and Severskij.
Before i knew just adout Sikorskij - the father of American helicopters industry:)
Well i,m not deny that P-47 was effective in the groung attack. It was.
However it wasn't and could not be so effetive as the specialized armored aircraft.
Just one example.
As you know the cocpite of fighters usially could armored, but engine is not so well armored.
If you are in attack of the defended by AAA-mushingan land aim- the any 1-2 bullet in the engine - and Game OVER.You could not come back to the base:)
The success of fighter-bombers as attackers in last month of war was due to the total chaos and lack of aaa-defence (both artillery and fighters )in Germany. Coz ONLY in when you have the air superiority yo could use the fighters as bombers- or it would shoted or uneffective visewerse.
I've read in memours of Ivan Kozedub - the soviet fighters also used the small bombs agains land targets.
Besides the gun wearpon of most of the soviet fighters were able to hit effectively the many of the german light vehicles. Even the Airacorba p-39 with its 30-mm gun was ABLE to do a much.Besides i know it was developed the special modification of Jak-9T with 45-mm gun!!!! in 1944 for that ground mission.
So it was a common tend of both Allies and Soviets to use the fighters as the ground attackers in last days of war coz the Germans have a strong shortage the aviation in all front so the surplus of fighters were particulary compensate in the ground attacks.
However in the conditions of strong aaa-defence the usial fighter was very weak. Look for instance in Korean war where a shoted down a relatively Great number of P-51 that was used primary as ground-attackers ( about 500)
This was his famouse lack - the engine usially stoped off after a hiting of even a 0.5 cal bullet.So the any ground masin gun could hit the Mustang( i,m not tell about specialized speed fire aa-gun agtillery).
You my friend fly on the air combat simulators, righ?:)
So yo could be easy convinced of it- just try to hit a ground aim that defended by the two-three aaa-guns on for instance the fighers P-47 or Jak-9.
You will nice be sirprised how quickly tray would teared your figher into the pieces:)
And try it again in for instance on Stuka or Il-2.The armored engine of the Il-2 was capable to ignore even the 20-mm shells. The wings certainly were full of holes but engine was still working enough good in many cases.;)
Althouth even today the ground attack coud be realised by the any modern jet fighter- but the best for that role the A-10 and Su-25- specally armored ground attackers.
All the best my friend

pdf27
12-13-2007, 03:43 AM
As you know the cocpite of fighters usially could armored, but engine is not so well armored.
If you are in attack of the defended by AAA-mushingan land aim- the any 1-2 bullet in the engine - and Game OVER.You could not come back to the base:)
Thing is, that's true for water-cooled engines like that on the Spitfire, Stuka or Il-2. Oddly, it turned out that Radial engines are massively tougher and actually worked like armour for the pilot - there are a hell of a lot of stories of radial engines being shot to shreds but the aircraft making it back in one piece.

I think the reason for this is that water-cooled engines have a single point failure source - the cooling system. Damage that and the engine will overheat and die in a few minutes. Radial engines don't have that - they're effectively a whole bunch of single cylinder engines flying together in close formation. To get one to seize you need to lock a cylinder in place completely - which needs a fairly heavy shell which would probably go through any plausible armour on the plane anyway.

Man of Stoat
12-13-2007, 03:46 AM
Is it not also the case that if one cylinder gets mashed, it's possible for the piston rod to get broken off by the power from the other cylinders and the engine keeps turning, albeit a bit rattly...

pdf27
12-13-2007, 05:26 AM
Sorta-kinda-maybe. All sorts of things are possible, what matters is how likely they are. Just because there have been instances of radial engines still working with totally destroyed cylinders (and I have heard of a couple) doesn't mean it happened very often at all.

Chevan
12-13-2007, 07:08 AM
Thing is, that's true for water-cooled engines like that on the Spitfire, Stuka or Il-2. Oddly, it turned out that Radial engines are massively tougher and actually worked like armour for the pilot - there are a hell of a lot of stories of radial engines being shot to shreds but the aircraft making it back in one piece.

I think the reason for this is that water-cooled engines have a single point failure source - the cooling system. Damage that and the engine will overheat and die in a few minutes. Radial engines don't have that - they're effectively a whole bunch of single cylinder engines flying together in close formation. To get one to seize you need to lock a cylinder in place completely - which needs a fairly heavy shell which would probably go through any plausible armour on the plane anyway.

Sure you right.
I do not know about P-47 and Mustang but Soviets pilots of La-5/7 with air-cooled engins feels much better then themself behind this wide engeen than the polots of Jak-9 or Airacobra.
Coz the massive M-82 endine was enough great to work as additional armor for the pilots.
But the problem of air-colled radial engines was relatively great square of frontal cylenders that need to be OPEN for air.i.e you could not cover it by the armor.
As the resault the during the frontal attack the bullets with the great relative speed ( sum of bullet speed +speed of fighter) hited the cylinders and could easy critically damaget it.
So although the air-cooled engine protected the pilots- with a great probability it could be damaged also.
Coz you could not defend the wide radial air-cooled by additional armor as effective as the water-cooled.
So just the engine armor was the real defence like in IL-2
And what type of engine had the P-47?

Chevan
12-13-2007, 07:14 AM
Is it not also the case that if one cylinder gets mashed, it's possible for the piston rod to get broken off by the power from the other cylinders and the engine keeps turning, albeit a bit rattly...

All depends of what king of damaging had the broken cylinder- in many cases engine was able to work at least for the short time.
However the much more critical problem for both water-cooled and air-cooled engine was the pressure of OIL- if this decrease to a zero - the Game over again:)

Panzerknacker
12-13-2007, 07:59 AM
The P-47 could "dive" for bombing but was not a divebomber, the only real USAAF divebomber was the A-36 apache. A basic element to this type of aircraft was the aerodinamic dive brake, if you have not those ...

pdf27
12-13-2007, 08:17 AM
So although the air-cooled engine protected the pilots- with a great probability it could be damaged also.
Coz you could not defend the wide radial air-cooled by additional armor as effective as the water-cooled.
So just the engine armor was the real defence like in IL-2
And what type of engine had the P-47?
P-47 had a radial engine, the P-51 had an inline engine. So far as I'm aware, the P-51 was used in Korea only because that's what they had available - the P-47 was considered more suitable, but wasn't available.

The other thing to remember here is that for some countries - particularly the US - they have huge excesses of production so can afford to spend production to save pilots. Armouring an engine is weight you can't use for increased performance or better armour elsewhere - so if you can afford to replace a lot of engines, you can use the engine as armour and have an aircraft that is better protected overall.

George Eller
12-13-2007, 11:58 AM
Oh George thank you
You know how to impress me and any one:)
Thank for infor about Kartavely and Severskij.
Before i knew just adout Sikorskij - the father of American helicopters industry:)
Well i,m not deny that P-47 was effective in the groung attack. It was.
However it wasn't and could not be so effetive as the specialized armored aircraft.
Just one example.
As you know the cocpite of fighters usially could armored, but engine is not so well armored.
If you are in attack of the defended by AAA-mushingan land aim- the any 1-2 bullet in the engine - and Game OVER.You could not come back to the base:)
The success of fighter-bombers as attackers in last month of war was due to the total chaos and lack of aaa-defence (both artillery and fighters )in Germany. Coz ONLY in when you have the air superiority yo could use the fighters as bombers- or it would shoted or uneffective visewerse.
I've read in memours of Ivan Kozedub - the soviet fighters also used the small bombs agains land targets.
Besides the gun wearpon of most of the soviet fighters were able to hit effectively the many of the german light vehicles. Even the Airacorba p-39 with its 30-mm gun was ABLE to do a much.Besides i know it was developed the special modification of Jak-9T with 45-mm gun!!!! in 1944 for that ground mission.
So it was a common tend of both Allies and Soviets to use the fighters as the ground attackers in last days of war coz the Germans have a strong shortage the aviation in all front so the surplus of fighters were particulary compensate in the ground attacks.
However in the conditions of strong aaa-defence the usial fighter was very weak. Look for instance in Korean war where a shoted down a relatively Great number of P-51 that was used primary as ground-attackers ( about 500)
This was his famouse lack - the engine usially stoped off after a hiting of even a 0.5 cal bullet.So the any ground masin gun could hit the Mustang( i,m not tell about specialized speed fire aa-gun agtillery).
You my friend fly on the air combat simulators, righ?:)
So yo could be easy convinced of it- just try to hit a ground aim that defended by the two-three aaa-guns on for instance the fighers P-47 or Jak-9.
You will nice be sirprised how quickly tray would teared your figher into the pieces:)
And try it again in for instance on Stuka or Il-2.The armored engine of the Il-2 was capable to ignore even the 20-mm shells. The wings certainly were full of holes but engine was still working enough good in many cases.;)
Althouth even today the ground attack coud be realised by the any modern jet fighter- but the best for that role the A-10 and Su-25- specally armored ground attackers.
All the best my friend

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Hi Chevan :)

I thought that you would like that piece of information. It's true that although the P-47 was a very rugged fighter-bomber it was not as well armoured as dedicated ground attack aircraft such as the IL-2; nor did it's main armament have the equivalent penetrating power. The P-47's armor-piercing M2 .50 cal ammunition could penetrate the deck armour of most German tanks (including the Pzkw V Panther), but not the heaviest such as Pzkw VI Tiger. However, the Thunderbolt has been credited with practically destroying the German and Italian railroads.


http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=100635&postcount=3

Rip (back then Lieutenant Collins) was a WW II fighter pilot from the class of 44-C, Aloe Field, Victoria, Texas. Rip was assigned to the 40th Fighter Squadron, a Squadron in the 35th Fighter Group, Fifth Air Force, FEAF (Far East Air Forces) in the Pacific...

Rip flew both the P-47 and P-51 in combat in the Pacific. He is a big fan of the P-47, ... Partial quotes from Rip Collin's words:

In addition to being a first class fighter, it was also a superb fighter-bomber and ground level strafer. Jugs practically wiped out the German and Italian railroads. I have strafed Japanese trains, troops, ships, gunboats, warships, airfields, ammo dumps, hangers, antiaircraft installations, you name it. I felt secure in my P-47.

1. The Republic Thunderbolt had a radial engine that could take hits and keep on running. I know of an actual case where a Jug brought a pilot back from Borneo after 8 hours in the air. The pilot landed with the master cylinder and three other cylinders blown out of commission. But the Jug kept chugging along, running well enough to bring its pilot back safely to his base at Morotai. I was there.

2. The Jug's radial engine was air cooled, instead of liquid cooled with a radiator system, like the Mustang's V-12. This is significant because one small caliber hit on an aluminum cooling line in a Mustang would let the coolant leak out, and when the coolant was gone, the engine seized, and the show was over.

I took a small caliber hit in a coolant tube over Formosa (Taiwan). When I landed back at base, my crew chief said, "Lieutenant, did you know you got hit?" I replied, "No." He continued, "You took a small caliber shell in the coolant tube on the right side of the engine. I'd give you between 10 and 15 minutes flying time remaining." I had just flown from Formosa, over nothing but the Pacific Ocean, to our fighter strip on Okinawa.

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http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=108603&postcount=25
By 1944, the Thunderbolt was in combat with the USAAF in all its operational theaters, except the Battle of the Aleutian Islands. With increases in fuel capacity as the type was refined, the range of escort missions over Europe steadily increased until the P-47 was able to accompany bombers in raids all the way into Germany. On the way back from the raids, pilots shot up ground targets of opportunity, and also used belly shackles to carry bombs on short-range missions, which led to the realization that the P-47 could perform a dual-function on escort missions as a fighter-bomber. Even with its complicated turbosupercharger system it could absorb a lot of damage, and its eight machine guns could inflict heavy damage on lightly armored targets. The P-47 gradually became the USAAF's best fighter-bomber, carrying the 500 pound (227 kg) bombs, the triple-tube M-8 4.5 inch (115 mm) rocket launchers, and eventually HVARs. From the invasion of Europe on June 6, 1944, to VE day on May 7, 1945, the Thunderbolt destroyed 86,000 railway cars, 9,000 locomotives, 6,000 armored fighting vehicles, and 68,000 trucks.

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http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=108603&postcount=25
P-47D Thunderbolt - Specifications
Powerplant: 1× Pratt & Whitney R-2800-59 twin-row radial engine, 2,535 hp (1,890 kW)
Maximum speed: 426 mph at 30,000 ft (685 km/h at 9,145 m)
Range: 800 miles combat, 1,800 mi ferry (1,290 km / 2,900 km)
Service ceiling: 43,000 ft (13,100 m)

P-47N Thunderbolt - Specifications
Powerplant: One 2,800-hp Pratt and Whitney R-2800-57,-73,or -77 18-cylinder two-row radial engine
Maximum speed: 467 m.p.h. (752 km/h) at 32,500 ft (685 km/h at 9,145 m)
Range: 2,170 miles (3,492 km.) with drop tanks
Service ceiling: 43,000 ft (13,100 m)

Pratt & Whitney R-2800
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_&_Whitney_R-2800


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Yes, in flight simulators I preferred to use the IL-2 for ground attack missions. It could absorb a great deal of punishment and packed quite a punch as well. :)

All the Best,

George

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Nickdfresh
12-13-2007, 06:13 PM
But the P-47 was much faster and more powerful, at least when taking power-to-weight ratio into account. And using rockets instead of having to aim a bomb on a small two-by-three meter target probably somewhat aided its survivability...


And I didn't realize this, but there was a dedicated ground-attack dive-bomber variant of the Mustang developed for the RAF called the A-36:


A-36 Apache/Invader

Main article: North American A-36 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_A-36)

At the same time, the USAAC was becoming more interested in ground attack aircraft and had a new version ordered as the A-36 Apache, which included six .50 M2 Browning machine guns, dive brakes and the ability to carry two 500 lb (230 kg) bombs.

In early 1942, the USAAF ordered 500 aircraft modified as dive bombers that were designated A-36A (NA-97). This model became the first USAAF Mustang to see combat. One aircraft was passed to the British who gave it the name Mustang I (Dive Bomber).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-51_Mustang

From the A-36 Wiki link"


...The A-36A proved to be a potent weapon; it could be put into a vertical dive at 12,000 ft, deploying its dive brakes, limiting the dive speed to 390 mph. Pilots soon recognized that extending the dive brakes after "peel-off" led to some unequal extension of the brakes due to varying hydraulic pressure, setting up an invariable slight roll which impeded aiming. Proper technique soon cured this anomaly and, subsequently, pilots achieved extremely consistent results[9]. Depending on the target and defences, the bomb release took place between 2,000 ft and 4,000 ft, followed by an immediate sharp "pull up."[13]

pdf27
12-13-2007, 06:37 PM
It's surprising what you can dive bomb with when you put your mind to it. Even Spitfires were used against V-1 launch sites in the rather imaginatively named "no ball" operations. Apparently they managed to get reasonable results, although from what I have read the technique relied rather a lot on luck...

George Eller
12-13-2007, 10:35 PM
But the P-47 was much faster and more powerful, at least when taking power-to-weight ratio into account. And using rockets instead of having to aim a bomb on a small two-by-three meter target probably somewhat aided its survivability...


And I didn't realize this, but there was a dedicated ground-attack dive-bomber variant of the Mustang developed for the RAF called the A-36:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-51_Mustang

From the A-36 Wiki link"
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Hi Nick :)

It's kind of ironic that the P-47, which had it's best performance at high altitude, was used so frequently in the later stages of the war at low altitude (where it's performance was more sluggish) for ground attack missions. But, it's rugged construction and radial engine made it more ideal than the Mustang for reasons mentioned previously. Interestingly, Major George E. Preddy, Jr., the top American Mustang ace in the ETO was killed, ironically, by friendly ground fire at low altitude on 25 Dec 1944.

Major George E. Preddy, Jr.
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=89626&postcount=15

Top Mustang Ace
352nd Fighter Group, Eighth Air Force
The Complete Fighter Pilot

http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_preddy.html

http://www.aviation-history.com/airmen/preddy.htm

http://www.highironillustrations.com/aviation/fullhouse_1.html

http://www.modelaces.com/148_scale_model/p47d_thunderbolt.php

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http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/738/georgepreddy01du3.jpg

http://www.starduststudios.com/GPTMA.htm
http://www.web-birds.com/8th/352/352.html

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http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6915/georgepreddy02tq0.jpg
P-51 MUSTANG CRIPES A' MIGHTY 3rd ALUMINUM AIRCRAFT NOSE ART PANEL
http://www.pacprod.com/cgi-bin/hazelnt.exe?action=DETAIL&item=MVP51C

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http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2974/georgepreddy03rp2.jpg
http://www.starduststudios.com/bluegep.htm

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http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/848/georgepreddy04qk3.jpg
Maj. George E. Preddy, Jr.
328th FS 352nd FG
North Carolina
December 25, 1944
Lorraine American Cemetery and Memorial
St. Avold (Moselle), France
http://www.352ndfightergroup.com/assoc/memorial.html

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Interesting that he died on Christmas Day while flying his plane named "CRIPES A' MIGHTY".

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SBD Dauntless
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBD_Dauntless


A-24 Banshee

The U.S. Army had its own version of the SBD, known as the A-24 Banshee, it was the same aircraft except it came it came without the tail hook used for carrier landings, and a pneumatic line replaced the solid tail wheel on some of them. First assigned to the 27th Bombardment Group (Light) at Hunter Field, Ga., A-24s participated in the Louisiana maneuvers during September 1941. There were two versions of the A-24, the A-24A and A-24B were produced and used by the Army in the early stages of the war.

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/2900/a24bansheejh7.jpg

The U.S. Army sent 52 A-24 Banshee's in crates to the Philippine Islands in the fall of 1941 in order to increase the American defense there with the 27th Bombardment Group, however with the attack of Pearl Harbor, these aircraft were diverted to Australia where they were assembled. While in Australia, these aircraft were plagued with mechanical problems and would see combat with the 91st Bombardment Squadron. On February 17, 1942, only seven of the original 52 A-24s were combat ready. The A-24s had worn-out engines, no armor plating, and no self sealing fuel tanks. Referring to themselves as "Blue Rock Clay Pigeons." The 91st attacked the enemy harbor and airbase at Bali and damaged or sunk numerous ships around Java. After the Japanese shot down two A-24s and damaged three so badly they could no longer fly, the 91st received orders to evacuate Java in early March, ending a brief but valiant effort.

The Banshee's left in Australia were assigned to the 8th Bombardment Squadron, 3rd Bombardment Group, to defend New Guinea. On July 26, 1942, seven A-24s attacked a convoy off Buna, but only one survived: the Japanese shot down five of them and damaged the sixth so badly that it did not make it back to base. Regarded by many pilots as too slow, too short-ranged and too poorly armed, the remaining A-24s were relegated to non-combat missions. In the United States, the A-24s became training aircraft or towed targets for aerial gunnery training. The more powerful A-24B was used later against the Japanese forces in the Gilbert Islands.

Although it was already reaching obsolescence by 1941, the SBD was used until 1944 when the Dauntless undertook its last major action during the Battle of the Philippine Sea. However, some Marine squadrons utilized Dauntlesses until the end of the war. It had already been replaced by the SB2C Helldiver in the U.S. Navy, much to the dismay of the pilots, many of whom believed that the "Slow But Deadly" Dauntless was a better aircraft than the Helldiver, which gained the nickname "Son of a Bitch 2nd Class." The Dauntless was one of the most important aircraft in the Pacific Theatre of World War II, sinking more enemy shipping in the Pacific war than any other US or Allied aircraft. In addition, Barrett Tilman, in his book on the Dauntless, claims that the Dauntless has a "plus" score against enemy aircraft, a rare event for a nominal "bomber" indeed.

5,936 SBDs were produced in World War II.

-

Panzerknacker
12-17-2007, 05:47 PM
The Dauntless was one of the most important aircraft in the Pacific Theatre of World War II, sinking more enemy shipping in the Pacific war than any other US or Allied aircraft. In addition, Barrett Tilman, in his book on the Dauntless, claims that the Dauntless has a "plus" score against enemy aircraft, a rare event for a nominal "bomber" indeed.


Indeed, no more no less than the killer of the japanese aicraft carriers at Midway, incidentally one Dauntless gunner nearly killed the famous japanese ace Saburo Sakai when struck it in the head with his ,30 caliber MGs.

George Eller
12-17-2007, 07:34 PM
Indeed, no more no less than the killer of the japanese aicraft carriers at Midway, incidentally one Dauntless gunner nearly killed the famous japanese ace Saburo Sakai when struck it in the head with his ,30 caliber MGs.
-

Very true PK :)

-

Saburo Sakai
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saburo_Sakai


Serious wounds
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saburo_Sakai#Serious_wounds

During the air group's first missions of the battle of Guadalcanal, Sakai was seriously wounded in combat with Douglas SBD-3 Dauntless dive bombers from USS Enterprise's Bombing Squadron Six (VB-6). Mistaking SBD Dauntless dive bombers, with their rear gunners, for American F4F fighters, near Tulagi Sakai attacked an SBD flown by Ensign Robert C. Shaw. Sakai fired 232 rounds at the SBD but with its armor, self-sealing fuel tanks and twin machine guns in the rear cockpit, the dive bomber proved a tough adversary. A blast from the SBD rear gunner, Harold L. Jones, shattered and blew away the canopy of Sakai's Zero.

Sakai sustained grievous injuries from the return fire; he was struck in the head by a .30 caliber bullet, blinding him in the right eye. The Zero rolled over and headed upside down toward the sea. Unable to see out of his remaining good eye due to blood flowing from the head wound, Sakai's vision started to clear somewhat as tears cleared the blood from his eyes and he was able to pull his plane out of the steep seaward dive. He considered crashing into one of the American warships: "If I must die, at least I could go out as a Samurai. My death would take several of the enemy with me. A ship. I needed a ship." Finally the cold air blasting into the cockpit revived him enough to check his instruments, and he decided that by using a lean fuel mixture he might be able to make it back to the airfield at Rabaul.

Although in agony from his injuries (he had a serious head wound [8] from a bullet that had passed through his skull and the left side of his brain, leaving the entire left side of his body paralyzed, and was left blind in one eye[9]) Sakai managed to fly his damaged Zero in a four-hour, 47-minute flight over 560 nautical miles (1,040 km) back to his base on Rabaul, using familiar volcanic peaks as guides. When he attempted to land at the airfield he nearly crashed into a line of parked Zeros but, after circling four times, and with the fuel gauge reading empty, he put his Zero down on the runway on his second attempt. After landing, he insisted on making his mission report to his superior officer before collapsing. His squadron mate Hiroyoshi Nishizawa drove him, as quickly but as gently as possible, to the surgeon. Sakai was evacuated to Japan on August 12, where he endured a long surgery without anesthesia. The surgery repaired some of the damage to his head, but was unable to restore full vision to his right eye. Nishizawa visited Saburo Sakai, while he was recuperating in the Yokosuka hospital in Japan.

-

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/46/Sakai_wounded.jpg

Guadalcanal, 8th August, 1942: Taking a .30 cal. round to the head in combat, the bullet split the upper frame of the right glass of Sakai's flight goggles and bounced off his skull. Covered with blood, blind in one eye and barely conscious, he shifts his silk scarf under his flight helmet to stop the bleeding and returns to his base in an epic 4 1/2 hour flight, while everybody has given up on him. He never regained the vision of his right eye, but a year later he was back in the cockpit.

-

Panzerknacker
12-19-2007, 06:20 PM
Nice history, obviously the Zero had not an armored windscreen :roll:

George Eller
12-19-2007, 11:24 PM
Nice history, obviously the Zero had not an armored windscreen :roll:
-

And Saburo Sakai was very lucky that he wasn't killed :)

-

the_librarian
03-21-2008, 11:07 PM
Hi all,

Late to the thread, but found some interesting stuff....sorry if a dupe, but check this link out: http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_BT-1.html

"...Aware of the failings of the BT-1, Northrop soon began work on an improved XBT-2....The new aircraft was thus given the designation XSBD-1 (eXperiment, Scout Bomber, Douglas). It would go on to be the most successful American dive bomber of the war...."

I throwing in for the Dauntless....remember watching Midway???

aly j
10-23-2008, 08:42 AM
Hey,

Which is the best dive bomber during ww2- How about the Mosquito dive bomber,
and i know its a real ww2 plane cause i build a model of the plane.
Much faster than a b-17 and carried explosive equitment and lest chance of being shot down by enemy, therefore could get more of its job done.
What do you guys think.

Rising Sun*
10-23-2008, 09:12 AM
Hey,

Which is the best dive bomber during ww2- How about the Mosquito dive bomber,
and i know its a real ww2 plane cause i build a model of the plane.
Much faster than a b-17 and carried explosive equitment and lest chance of being shot down by enemy, therefore could get more of its job done.
What do you guys think.

Anyone who knows anything about the Mosquito (a difficult word to spell yet the semi-literate troll known as aly j manages it as "she"? manages so many other difficult spellings, while not being able to spell much simpler words) will see the quoted post as the trolling post it is. As will anyone who knows anything about aly j see it as a trolling post.


Do not feed the troll.



http://www.genesbmx.com/trolls.jpg

aly j
10-24-2008, 01:18 AM
Anyone who knows anything about the Mosquito (a difficult word to spell yet the semi-literate troll known as aly j manages it as "she"? manages so many other difficult spellings, while not being able to spell much simpler words) will see the quoted post as the trolling post it is. As will anyone who knows anything about aly j see it as a trolling post.


Do not feed the troll.



http://www.genesbmx.com/trolls.jpg

HAH, Every plane, and ship and motor car is known as a "SHE". Didnt you know that one RS?
Why the heck you answer why post for?
Remember what you said GAME OVER! Youre more of a troLL then i am.
All youre answers are copied out of a book or the internet, why dont you try and give youre own answers out- Bigger troll that i am RS.

oh yeah, just in case you forgotten GAME OVER TROLL BOY.

Rising Sun*
10-24-2008, 04:36 AM
Do not feed the troll

alephh
10-24-2008, 08:37 AM
Stuka gets my vote, mainly because of it's accuracy. Goods points about the "fearfactor", warfare is not always about the physical facts and performance.

BriteLite
10-24-2008, 05:29 PM
Ju-87G gets my vote. Rudel flew many of his record setting panzer killing missions in the G version.

2934

Twin 37mm Flak guns.

aly j
10-25-2008, 04:07 AM
How can i be a troll when i got PROOF to back my information up.

Im talking about the Misitquito, middle of the page.

http://www.history-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/WW2/bombers.htm

Rising Sun*
10-25-2008, 06:02 AM
How can i be a troll when i got PROOF to back my information up.

Im talking about the Misitquito, middle of the page.

http://www.history-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/WW2/bombers.htm


When exposed as a troll and frustrated by being ignored by not getting a response to its previous trolling statement which was intentionally erroneous to provoke an attention seeking dispute, one of the classic troll responses is to claim to have proof for the previous intentionally erroneous trolling statement and then to refer to a new intentionally erroneous trolling statement to try to generate a fresh dispute and to get the attention which the original trolling post failed to get.

When this happens, it is clear evidence that we are dealing with a troll and that the troll is becoming increasingly frustrated with its inability to generate the attention seeking response it seeks.

This will provoke the troll to try a more forceful form of the previously unsuccessful attempts to disrupt the forum, or to try a new approach from the little book of predictable and tedious troll tricks, as may be seen in due course.

Or perhaps not, as the interval between troll posts and even any posts by the troll has decreased under pressure of these sorts of troll exposure posts, although this statement may provoke a flurry of angry posts to allow the troll to work off its anger.

Do not feed the troll.

mike M.
10-25-2008, 12:34 PM
Hey,

Which is the best dive bomber during ww2- How about the Mosquito dive bomber,
What do you guys think.


Hi Aly,
Although the mosquito is a fantastic aircraft, I wouldn't consider it a dive bomber like the stuka or dauntless.

tom!
10-25-2008, 12:53 PM
Hi.

My hand for the D4Y Suisei. Fast, highly accurate, good range, easy to fly and to maintain.

Yours

tom! ;)

aly j
10-26-2008, 02:12 AM
Hi Aly,
Although the mosquito is a fantastic aircraft, I wouldn't consider it a dive bomber like the stuka or dauntless.

Hi Mike M.

Yes, Stuka and Dauntless outclassed the Mosquito as a Dive Bomber.
Mosquito wasnt build in the first place to be a dive bomber, later on in her carrier she became a dive bomber,not as good as the other dive bombers,but for what she was built for in the first place,She did really well, and least i can say one good thing about her. She was a goodlooking aircraft. Cheers

RS if you answer my post, Im going to PM George allen

Rising Sun*
10-26-2008, 04:33 AM
RS if you answer my post, Im going to PM George allen

I have no idea what this means, but I don't submit to threats.

I've now answered your post, which is really what this about, isn't it, pussy whiskers? Putting up another trolling post so that if I don't respond you will think that you can control the board by threatening other members, and if I do respond you've demonstrated you're still the troll in control by getting a response to your trolling posts when I've said I won't respond to you. Either way, you stay in control. And you maintain the only area of your inadequate little life where you're in control. Which is what your whole presence on this board is about.

Now that I've answered your post, carry out your threat.

PM George allen, whoever he is, and PM George Bush for all I care. Copy it to me, so I can have a laugh. Better still, post a copy here so everybody can see what terrible crimes I'm accused of in your snitching little PM to whoever Mr allen is. If you copy it to me without posting it, I will post it.

Press on, furball.

Rising Sun*
10-26-2008, 05:13 AM
aly j

P.S. While you're at it, PM the RACV. And you'd know why if you were what you claim to be, furball.

Rising Sun*
10-26-2008, 05:49 AM
aly j

PP.S.

As you might choose to write to George allen in your pretend bad English as part of your sad online identity, I'll help you out by writing your PM for you.


Dear George,

RS says I'm a troll because I show all the features of a troll and I am the most persistent and most cunning troll this board has seen in a long time, which is evidenced by the fact that I am still here and still trolling at a record daily rate and still getting away with it.

This is not true.

I have PROOF! But the dog ate it, with my homework.

RS is the troll.

BAN RS right now so that really valuable members like me can continue to contribute our vast knowledge to the board and make sensible enquiries of the other members to quench our thirst for knowledge, as is evident from all of my knowledgeable contributions and sensible enquiry posts.

If you don't ban RS RIGHT NOW! I shall take my encyclopaedic knowledge of WWII to another site where it will be properly appreciated, such as here http://****wit.wikispaces.com/

Yours sincerely

alj j


P.S. I have PROOF that I am aly j and not a troll as my profile picture is clearly that of a 26 year old girl who looks nothing like a troll or even anyone with an anger or hostility problem like trolls have.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=43&pictureid=375

Rising Sun*
10-26-2008, 05:57 AM
And, for members other than aly j, what really pisses me off about this situation if that if clowns like it are allowed to run wild they just fill the board with crap, but if attempts are made to rein them in it just feeds their trolling needs. It's a no win situation, as long as they're on the board.

Panzerknacker
10-26-2008, 09:18 AM
And, for members other than aly j, what really pisses me off about this situation if that if clowns like it are allowed to run wild they just fill the board with crap, but if attempts are made to rein them in it just feeds their trolling needs. It's a no win situation, as long as they're on the board

You see ? some Panzerknacker hand needed here.:mrgreen:


Ju-87G gets my vote. Rudel flew many of his record setting panzer killing missions in the G version.



You are correct , however the Ju-87G was not a divebomber, it was a low level strafer, in fact they had all the bomb attachments and dive brake removed.
Nevertheless Rudel did destroy tank using conventional divebombing tactics and Ju.87s.

aly j
10-26-2008, 04:41 PM
Hey RS, Thanks for putting my pic up there for me, arnt you a great freind.
see again, you ruin another thread RS, You thread toll ruiner.
Who said i wanted you banned.
I only complaine to stop you answering my posts and threads, im not evil like you are.
I never told a mod i wanted you banned,. Get youre facts right RS.

George Eller
10-26-2008, 06:13 PM
-

Who is George Allen? I think he was a Republican U.S. Senator from Virginia.
He lost his re-election bid to Democrat Jim Webb in 2006. :)

-


Hey,

Which is the best dive bomber during ww2- How about the Mosquito dive bomber,
and i know its a real ww2 plane cause i build a model of the plane.
Much faster than a b-17 and carried explosive equitment and lest chance of being shot down by enemy, therefore could get more of its job done.
What do you guys think.
-

Hi Aly,

Although certain variants of the de Havilland Mosquito were used in the ground attack role, technically it was not a dive-bomber.

The most produced model of the de Havilland Mosquito was the FB Mk VI which was a fighter-bomber. It had four .303 caliber machine guns and four 20mm cannon mounted in the nose and lower fuselage of the aircraft.

In Europe the fighter-bomber was more predominant in the latter stages of the war anyway. The American P-47 Thunderbolt and P-38 Lightning and British Typhoon and Tempest fighter-bombers wrecked havoc on the German and Italian railways and road systems, and on other ground targets.

-

de Havilland Mosquito
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito

The de Havilland Mosquito was a British combat aircraft that excelled in a number of roles during the Second World War. Originally conceived as an unarmed fast bomber, uses of the Mosquito included: low to medium altitude daytime tactical bomber, high altitude night bomber, pathfinder, day or night fighter, fighter-bomber, intruder, maritime strike and photo reconnaissance aircraft. It was also used as the basis for a single-seat heavy fighter, the de Havilland Hornet. The aircraft served with the Royal Air Force (RAF) and many other air forces during the Second World War and postwar (see Operators below). The Mosquito was known affectionately as the "Mossie" to its crews and was also known as "The Wooden Wonder" or "The Timber Terror" as the bulk of the aircraft was made of laminated plywood.


de Havilland Mosquito - Fighter-bomber versions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito#Fighter-bomber_versions

Operational experience in its varied roles quickly led to the development of a versatile fighter-bomber version; the FB VI, which first saw service in early 1943. The Mark VI had a strengthened wing for external loads and along with its standard fighter armament could carry two 250 lb bombs in the rear of the bomb bay and two 250 lb bombs under the wings, or eight wing-mounted rockets. Later up-engined versions could carry 500 lb bombs. The FB VI became the most numerous version of the Mosquito (2,292 built), equipping the day bomber 2 Group, the intruder squadrons of Fighter Command and 2nd Tactical Air Force, and the strike wings of Coastal Command, who used the variant as a potent anti-shipping aircraft armed with eight "60 lb" rockets.

One of the higher risk uses of the fighter-bomber Mosquito FB VI was by 21 Sqn., 464(RAAF) Squadron and 487(NZ) Squadron of No. 2 Group, 2nd Tactical Air Force in Operation Jericho, a mission to destroy the walls and guards' quarters of Amiens prison to allow members of the French Resistance to escape. In the aftermath of the operation the Mosquito of Group Captain Percy Pickard was shot down.

On 11 April 1944, after a request by Dutch resistance workers, six Mosquito FB VIs of No. 613 (City of Manchester) Squadron made a pinpoint attack at rooftop height on the Kunstzaal Kleizkamp Art Gallery in The Hague, Netherlands, which was being used by the Gestapo to store the Dutch Central Population Registry. Their bombs, a mixture of high explosive and incendiary, went in through the doors and windows, and the records were destroyed. Only persons in the building were killed - nearby civilians in a bread queue were unharmed.

On 21 March 1945, another similar raid, Operation Carthage, again by 21 Sqn., 464(RAAF) Sqn. and 487(NZ) Sqn. involved a very low-level bombing attack on the Gestapo headquarters in the Shellhus, near the centre of Copenhagen, Denmark. The attack had been requested several times by members of the Danish resistance, but was initially deemed too dangerous by the RAF. Twenty Mosquitos were involved, split into three attack waves. They were escorted by 30 RAF Mustangs. The main attack on the Gestapo headquarters caused the death of 55 German soldiers and 47 Danes working for the Gestapo, together with destruction of the Gestapo records in the headquarters. Eight Gestapo prisoners were killed while 18 prisoners escaped. A Mosquito flying in the first wave of the attack struck a tall lamp-post and crashed into a nearby Catholic school (the French school). Mosquitos of the third wave bombed this area by mistake, killing 86 children, 10 nuns, 8 teachers, and 21 other civilians; no civilians had been killed during the main attack. Four Mosquitos were lost and nine pilots/crew members died. The attack saved the lives of many resistance workers as the Gestapo archives and organisation were severely damaged.


de Havilland Mosquito - Fighter-bomber aircraft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito#Fighter-bomber_aircraft

The most numerous Mosquito variant was the FB Mk VI fighter-bomber of which 2,718 were built. Originally converted from a Mk II, the Mk VI first flew in February 1943. Designed for a fighter-bomber role, the Mk VI could carry two 250 lb (110 kg) or two "short-fin" 500 lb (230 kg) bombs in the internal bomb bay as well as two more bombs under the wings. From early 1944, Coastal Command operated Mk VIs armed with eight 3-inch "60 lb" (27 kg) rockets to carry out anti-shipping strikes.

Other fighter-bomber variants were the Mosquito FB Mk XVIII (sometimes known as the Tsetse) of which 27 were made by converting Mk VIs. These were fitted with a Molins 57 mm '6-pounder Class M' cannon, a QF 6 pounder anti-tank gun modified with an auto-loader to allow both semi- or fully-automatic fire, in the nose, along with two .303 in (7.7 mm) sighting machine guns. The Air Ministry initially suspected that this variant would not work, but mock tests proved otherwise. Although the gun provided the Mosquito with yet more anti-shipping firepower to pit against U-boats, it required a steady and vulnerable approach-run to aim and fire the gun, thus making rockets more effective, especially because Mosquitos without the 6 pounder didn't suffer the weight penalty of the gun. Despite the preference for rockets, a further development of the idea was carried out using the even larger 32-pounder, a gun based on the QF 3.7 inch AA gun, the airborne version using a novel form of muzzle brake. Developed to prove the feasibility of using such a large weapon in the Mosquito, this installation was not completed until after the war when it was flown and fired in a single aircraft without problems before being scrapped. The FB Mk 26 and FB Mk 40, based on the Mk VI, were built in Canada and Australia and were powered by Packard-built Merlin engines.

-

De Havilland Mosquito FB Mk VI
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_mosquito_VI.html

The FB Mk VI was armed with four .303in machine guns and four 20mm cannon, just as had been planned for the day fighter version. It could carry two 500lb bombs in the rear half of its bomb bay (the front half was used by the cannons). Additionally the Mk VI had two wing mounting points that allowed it to carry either 50 gallon drop tanks, or two more 500lb bombs, for a total bomb load of 2,000lbs. Fully armed the FB Mk VI had an effective range of over 1000 miles.

Late in 1944 the Mosquito FB Mk VI was used to carry up to eight rocket projectiles. The first Mosquito attack with RPs was carried out in October 1944.

The FB Mk VI entered service with No. 418 Squadron, which received its first aircraft on 11 May 1943. Eventually it equipped 26 RAF squadrons, seeing service over Europe and the Far East as well as from bases on Malta. It was also used by Coastal Command on anti-shipping duties. The FB Mk VI carried out some of the most daring Mosquito raids of the war, amongst them the famous attack on Amiens Prison on 18 February 1944.

-

Mosquito FB Mk.VI - Specifications
http://www.aviastar.org/air/england/havilland_mosquito.php

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6221/mosquitospecslq0.jpg

-

Models by Roger Brown
http://www.harrowmodellingsociety.co.uk/picsrog1.htm

Mosquito FB Mk.VI SEAC
1/48 Tamiya kit.
Aeromaster decals.

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2554/seacmossie1bo1.jpg

-

Mosquito FB Mk VI - 1/48 - Tamiya
http://cschmodels.blogspot.com/2007/02/mosquito-fb-mk-vi-148-tamiya.html

The aircraft is from 143 Sqn - Banff Strike Wing - 1945

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/7267/dehavillandmosquito01et2.jpg

-

Mosquito FB Mk.VI
by Stuart Hurley
http://hsfeatures.com/mosquitofbvish_1.htm

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/9889/mosquito01vz7.jpg

By November 1944, MM403 was a veteran of 71 successful sorties. Its ninth mission was the famed Amiens prison raid. The aircraft went on to complete 84 missions before crashing soon after take-off on 17th. January 1945.

-

The Mosquito Page
http://www.mossie.org/Mosquito.html

de Havilland Mosquito
http://www.dhmosquito.com/

de Havilland Museum
http://www.dehavillandmuseum.co.uk/

The de Havilland Mosquito
http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/quarter2/mosquitos.htm

-

aly j
10-27-2008, 01:07 AM
-

Who is George Allen? I think he was a Republican U.S. Senator from Virginia.
He lost his re-election bid to Democrat Jim Webb in 2006. :)

-


-

Hi Aly,

Although certain variants of the de Havilland Mosquito were used in the ground attack role, technically it was not a dive-bomber.

The most produced model of the de Havilland Mosquito was the FB Mk VI which was a fighter-bomber. It had four .303 caliber machine guns and four 20mm cannon mounted in the nose and lower fuselage of the aircraft.

In Europe the fighter-bomber was more predominant in the latter stages of the war anyway. The American P-47 Thunderbolt and P-38 Lightning and British Typhoon and Tempest fighter-bombers wrecked havoc on the German and Italian railways and road systems, and on other ground targets.

-

de Havilland Mosquito
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito

The de Havilland Mosquito was a British combat aircraft that excelled in a number of roles during the Second World War. Originally conceived as an unarmed fast bomber, uses of the Mosquito included: low to medium altitude daytime tactical bomber, high altitude night bomber, pathfinder, day or night fighter, fighter-bomber, intruder, maritime strike and photo reconnaissance aircraft. It was also used as the basis for a single-seat heavy fighter, the de Havilland Hornet. The aircraft served with the Royal Air Force (RAF) and many other air forces during the Second World War and postwar (see Operators below). The Mosquito was known affectionately as the "Mossie" to its crews and was also known as "The Wooden Wonder" or "The Timber Terror" as the bulk of the aircraft was made of laminated plywood.


de Havilland Mosquito - Fighter-bomber versions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito#Fighter-bomber_versions

Operational experience in its varied roles quickly led to the development of a versatile fighter-bomber version; the FB VI, which first saw service in early 1943. The Mark VI had a strengthened wing for external loads and along with its standard fighter armament could carry two 250 lb bombs in the rear of the bomb bay and two 250 lb bombs under the wings, or eight wing-mounted rockets. Later up-engined versions could carry 500 lb bombs. The FB VI became the most numerous version of the Mosquito (2,292 built), equipping the day bomber 2 Group, the intruder squadrons of Fighter Command and 2nd Tactical Air Force, and the strike wings of Coastal Command, who used the variant as a potent anti-shipping aircraft armed with eight "60 lb" rockets.

One of the higher risk uses of the fighter-bomber Mosquito FB VI was by 21 Sqn., 464(RAAF) Squadron and 487(NZ) Squadron of No. 2 Group, 2nd Tactical Air Force in Operation Jericho, a mission to destroy the walls and guards' quarters of Amiens prison to allow members of the French Resistance to escape. In the aftermath of the operation the Mosquito of Group Captain Percy Pickard was shot down.

On 11 April 1944, after a request by Dutch resistance workers, six Mosquito FB VIs of No. 613 (City of Manchester) Squadron made a pinpoint attack at rooftop height on the Kunstzaal Kleizkamp Art Gallery in The Hague, Netherlands, which was being used by the Gestapo to store the Dutch Central Population Registry. Their bombs, a mixture of high explosive and incendiary, went in through the doors and windows, and the records were destroyed. Only persons in the building were killed - nearby civilians in a bread queue were unharmed.

On 21 March 1945, another similar raid, Operation Carthage, again by 21 Sqn., 464(RAAF) Sqn. and 487(NZ) Sqn. involved a very low-level bombing attack on the Gestapo headquarters in the Shellhus, near the centre of Copenhagen, Denmark. The attack had been requested several times by members of the Danish resistance, but was initially deemed too dangerous by the RAF. Twenty Mosquitos were involved, split into three attack waves. They were escorted by 30 RAF Mustangs. The main attack on the Gestapo headquarters caused the death of 55 German soldiers and 47 Danes working for the Gestapo, together with destruction of the Gestapo records in the headquarters. Eight Gestapo prisoners were killed while 18 prisoners escaped. A Mosquito flying in the first wave of the attack struck a tall lamp-post and crashed into a nearby Catholic school (the French school). Mosquitos of the third wave bombed this area by mistake, killing 86 children, 10 nuns, 8 teachers, and 21 other civilians; no civilians had been killed during the main attack. Four Mosquitos were lost and nine pilots/crew members died. The attack saved the lives of many resistance workers as the Gestapo archives and organisation were severely damaged.


de Havilland Mosquito - Fighter-bomber aircraft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito#Fighter-bomber_aircraft

The most numerous Mosquito variant was the FB Mk VI fighter-bomber of which 2,718 were built. Originally converted from a Mk II, the Mk VI first flew in February 1943. Designed for a fighter-bomber role, the Mk VI could carry two 250 lb (110 kg) or two "short-fin" 500 lb (230 kg) bombs in the internal bomb bay as well as two more bombs under the wings. From early 1944, Coastal Command operated Mk VIs armed with eight 3-inch "60 lb" (27 kg) rockets to carry out anti-shipping strikes.

Other fighter-bomber variants were the Mosquito FB Mk XVIII (sometimes known as the Tsetse) of which 27 were made by converting Mk VIs. These were fitted with a Molins 57 mm '6-pounder Class M' cannon, a QF 6 pounder anti-tank gun modified with an auto-loader to allow both semi- or fully-automatic fire, in the nose, along with two .303 in (7.7 mm) sighting machine guns. The Air Ministry initially suspected that this variant would not work, but mock tests proved otherwise. Although the gun provided the Mosquito with yet more anti-shipping firepower to pit against U-boats, it required a steady and vulnerable approach-run to aim and fire the gun, thus making rockets more effective, especially because Mosquitos without the 6 pounder didn't suffer the weight penalty of the gun. Despite the preference for rockets, a further development of the idea was carried out using the even larger 32-pounder, a gun based on the QF 3.7 inch AA gun, the airborne version using a novel form of muzzle brake. Developed to prove the feasibility of using such a large weapon in the Mosquito, this installation was not completed until after the war when it was flown and fired in a single aircraft without problems before being scrapped. The FB Mk 26 and FB Mk 40, based on the Mk VI, were built in Canada and Australia and were powered by Packard-built Merlin engines.

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De Havilland Mosquito FB Mk VI
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_mosquito_VI.html

The FB Mk VI was armed with four .303in machine guns and four 20mm cannon, just as had been planned for the day fighter version. It could carry two 500lb bombs in the rear half of its bomb bay (the front half was used by the cannons). Additionally the Mk VI had two wing mounting points that allowed it to carry either 50 gallon drop tanks, or two more 500lb bombs, for a total bomb load of 2,000lbs. Fully armed the FB Mk VI had an effective range of over 1000 miles.

Late in 1944 the Mosquito FB Mk VI was used to carry up to eight rocket projectiles. The first Mosquito attack with RPs was carried out in October 1944.

The FB Mk VI entered service with No. 418 Squadron, which received its first aircraft on 11 May 1943. Eventually it equipped 26 RAF squadrons, seeing service over Europe and the Far East as well as from bases on Malta. It was also used by Coastal Command on anti-shipping duties. The FB Mk VI carried out some of the most daring Mosquito raids of the war, amongst them the famous attack on Amiens Prison on 18 February 1944.

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Mosquito FB Mk.VI - Specifications
http://www.aviastar.org/air/england/havilland_mosquito.php

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6221/mosquitospecslq0.jpg

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Models by Roger Brown
http://www.harrowmodellingsociety.co.uk/picsrog1.htm

Mosquito FB Mk.VI SEAC
1/48 Tamiya kit.
Aeromaster decals.

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2554/seacmossie1bo1.jpg

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Mosquito FB Mk VI - 1/48 - Tamiya
http://cschmodels.blogspot.com/2007/02/mosquito-fb-mk-vi-148-tamiya.html

The aircraft is from 143 Sqn - Banff Strike Wing - 1945

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/7267/dehavillandmosquito01et2.jpg

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Mosquito FB Mk.VI
by Stuart Hurley
http://hsfeatures.com/mosquitofbvish_1.htm

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/9889/mosquito01vz7.jpg

By November 1944, MM403 was a veteran of 71 successful sorties. Its ninth mission was the famed Amiens prison raid. The aircraft went on to complete 84 missions before crashing soon after take-off on 17th. January 1945.

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The Mosquito Page
http://www.mossie.org/Mosquito.html

de Havilland Mosquito
http://www.dhmosquito.com/

de Havilland Museum
http://www.dehavillandmuseum.co.uk/

The de Havilland Mosquito
http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/quarter2/mosquitos.htm

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Hey George Aller,

For some reason i thought youre name was allen sorry.

I actually put together a model of the mosquito aircraft nearly exactly the same as youre pics, I admire the mosquito. Every ones got there faves.

The mosquitos was also used in the dambuster raids with a bomb called "the bouncing bomb".

I hope i read it correctley,any way if im wrong correct me in a pleasent way.

Rising Sun*
10-27-2008, 03:51 AM
You see ? some Panzerknacker hand needed here.:mrgreen:

And some people thought you and I couldn't agree on anything! ;) :D

George Eller
10-27-2008, 07:58 AM
You see ? some Panzerknacker hand needed here.:mrgreen:
And some people thought you and I couldn't agree on anything! ;) :D
-

Carry on Guys ;)

-

Rising Sun*
10-27-2008, 08:22 AM
-

Carry on Guys ;)

-


George, this is not helpful.

Have you forgotten what happened the last time PK and I carried on? ;) :D

pdf27
10-27-2008, 10:32 AM
The mosquitos was also used in the dambuster raids with a bomb called "the bouncing bomb".

I hope i read it correctley,any way if im wrong correct me in a pleasent way.

Err... no. The dams raid used Lancasters dropping a weapon known as "Upkeep", while the Mosquitoes (while they were indeed later equipped with a bouncing bomb) used a much smaller one known as "Highball", designed for attacking anchored shipping. So far as I'm aware, Highball was never used in action.

Upkeep was shaped like an oil drum and weighed just over four tonnes (two thirds of the empty weight of a Mosquito, and more than twice it's maximum bomb load).
Highball was spherical, and while I can't find an exact weight will have been approximately 400kg.

George Eller
10-27-2008, 10:39 AM
George, this is not helpful.

Have you forgotten what happened the last time PK and I carried on? ;) :D
-

I know, it's highly unusual. :D

But, I think in this case we're the three amigos.

-

Rising Sun*
10-27-2008, 10:45 AM
-

I know, it's highly unusual. :D

But, I think in this case we're the three amigos.

-

As long as we're not The Three Stooges, I can work with that. ;) :D

Rising Sun*
10-27-2008, 10:58 AM
Err... no. The dams raid used Lancasters dropping a weapon known as "Upkeep", while the Mosquitoes (while they were indeed later equipped with a bouncing bomb) used a much smaller one known as "Highball", designed for attacking anchored shipping. So far as I'm aware, Highball was never used in action.

Upkeep was shaped like an oil drum and weighed just over four tonnes (two thirds of the empty weight of a Mosquito, and more than twice it's maximum bomb load).
Highball was spherical, and while I can't find an exact weight will have been approximately 400kg.

Mate, you have just responded to one of the many intentionally wrong trolling posts by aly.

Ever noticed how her clearly wrong statements are followed by a request for information or correction, just to get others to feed the troll?

e.g Mozzie is a dive bomber; Mozzie PROOF as a dive bomber was because it dived on other planes (half way down the page); Mozzie was a Dam Buster; is a bren carrier like an aircraft carrier?

I don't know why you bother giving aly facts as they're the last thing she (and I use 'she' advisedly) ever uses; is impressed by; or knows apart from perverting them to troll.

aly j
10-28-2008, 01:50 AM
Err... no. The dams raid used Lancasters dropping a weapon known as "Upkeep", while the Mosquitoes (while they were indeed later equipped with a bouncing bomb) used a much smaller one known as "Highball", designed for attacking anchored shipping. So far as I'm aware, Highball was never used in action.

Upkeep was shaped like an oil drum and weighed just over four tonnes (two thirds of the empty weight of a Mosquito, and more than twice it's maximum bomb load).
Highball was spherical, and while I can't find an exact weight will have been approximately 400kg.

Hey PDF, Yes i knew about Mosquito attacking Tirpitz with a HIGHBALL,I thought mosquitos were used in both cases.
Yes i knew that too- QUOTE-Mosquitoes {While they were indeed later equipped with a bouncing bomb}. I was right about that information.
I swear that i read that the Mosquitoes were used but i must of read it wrong again. I always go with youre information pdf. Anyways can some one tell me how do i quote a small portion of another quote please, i still havent worked it out yet.

aly j
10-28-2008, 02:01 AM
What the hell does this mean.

Panzerknacker Quote- You see?
Some panzerknacker hand needed here.

RS Quote- And some people thought you and i couldet agree on anything.

I hope you dont mean bashing me cause i annoy you too. Thats f***en cruel.





























/

Major Winters
11-04-2008, 05:01 PM
Wow RS You Quadruple posted, couldn't you have just edited, your first one, oh and by the way Quadruple posted means posted 4 times.

Nickdfresh
11-05-2008, 06:37 AM
What are you doing here stranger!

You better stay on the topic, the mods have alot of power and you're not in there good books.

Stay on the Dive Bomber subject,I've been warned by another member. sweet bye.


Um, he's not in our "good books," mainly because he just posts here just to whore his site...

Rising Sun*
11-05-2008, 07:19 AM
Um, he's not in our "good books," mainly because he just posts here just to whore his site...

Can you blame him?

It's a spectacularly badly designed site which manages to break every rule for a new, or even established, site, so he'd need to prostitute it all over the web to maintain his pathetic level of pathetic postings to garner the advertising revenue from the endless ads it displays.

The anime / wonderland / spa bath / play with your friends / free now / banner under the main banner is beautifully jarring, and fits perfectly with a serious WWII history site. :rolleyes:

The historical revelations on this site are, frankly, eye popping. Such as:

"The POW camps are prisoner of war camps" http://wordlwartwo.proboards82.com/index.cgi?board=germany Who would have guessed that?

"Germany is a Large Complex Industrial Country, With Buildings Towering Sternly High and Cobbled Roads Leading Down All Different Paths." http://wordlwartwo.proboards82.com/index.cgi/ Which is why Germany relied on horse transport more than any other nation, due to their soldiers getting a thrill on the wagons vibrating over the cobbles.

There are so many other brilliant aspects of this site that it is hard to know where to stop extolling them, but here would be a good point, with the Staff Medal:

A Staff Medal, this Medal is Awarded for Contributing to the Board and Becoming Apart of the Moderation Team.

How marvellously innovative to award a team medal for being apart from the team!

pdf27
11-05-2008, 08:01 AM
A Staff Medal, this Medal is Awarded for Contributing to the Board and Becoming Apart of the Moderation Team.
Jeepers, you mean the walking dictionary can't tell the difference between "a part" and "apart"? Well I never!


Um, he's not in our "good books," mainly because he just posts here just to whore his site...
Now now, to be fair he's just made his first post which isn't about whoring out a really bad wannabe WW2 forum on someone else's forum. That is a start if nothing else.


Wow RS You Quadruple posted, couldn't you have just edited, your first one, oh and by the way Quadruple posted means posted 4 times.
What are you, a walking dictionary? Most people here have at least a passing familiarity with the English language, so there is no need for you to explain simple words to them.


Hey PDF, Yes i knew about Mosquito attacking Tirpitz with a HIGHBALL,I thought mosquitos were used in both cases.
Neither Highball nor Mosquitoes were ever used to attack the Tirpitz, as should be obvious to anyone with even a cursory knowledge of history. All attacks were carried out either by RAF heavy bombers or the Fleet Air Arm (which was not equipped with Mosquitoes at the time).

Rising Sun*
11-05-2008, 08:06 AM
Jeepers, you mean the walking dictionary can't tell the difference between "a part" and "apart"? Well I never!

If his part comes apart, the difference should be painfully obvious. ;) :D

pdf27
11-06-2008, 01:47 AM
If you look in the box when you are typing you will see:



Their text here


Use copy & paste to turn it into:




Their first text here



Their second text here

pdf27
11-06-2008, 06:08 PM
Why do I feel like the victim of an elaborate wind-up here?

Copy: Highlight the text and press <Ctrl> and <c> at the same time. Alternatively select the text and right click on it with your mouse, then select "copy".
Paste: Press <Ctrl> and <v> at the same time, or right click with your mouse and select "paste".

Rising Sun*
11-06-2008, 06:10 PM
Why do I feel like the victim of an elaborate wind-up here?

You are not alone in thinking that.

Rising Sun*
11-06-2008, 06:16 PM
Why do I think that the next question from the Antipodes will be: "How do I highlight text?"?

Nickdfresh
11-06-2008, 09:31 PM
Oh for the love of God, I can't take it anymore!!

Rising Sun*
11-07-2008, 06:39 AM
Oh for the love of God, I can't take it anymore!!


Don't jump!

I'm calling a priest for you!


Or would you prefer a minister, pastor, rabbi, imam, mullah, witch doctor or some other master of comforting but empty mumbo jumbo?

If so, please call the Suicide Helpline number at the top of the screen between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. Monday to Friday.

If you are considering suicide outside the Suicide Helpline hours, please leave a message after the tone and a trained Suicide Prevention Social Worker will contact you, or your heirs, as soon as possible during our working hours.

Remember, no badly how you feel now, it can get a lot worse. So don't despair. Just ring us, 9 to 5 Monday to Friday. We're here to help, any time you need us.

Nickdfresh
11-07-2008, 06:52 AM
I'm not jumping, I'm pushing Aly J!

Rising Sun*
11-07-2008, 07:18 AM
I'm not jumping, I'm pushing Aly J!


Then, more power to your arm! ;)

Nickdfresh
11-07-2008, 08:39 AM
Why do I feel like the victim of an elaborate wind-up here?

Copy: Highlight the text and press <Ctrl> and <c> at the same time. Alternatively select the text and right click on it with your mouse, then select "copy".
Paste: Press <Ctrl> and <v> at the same time, or right click with your mouse and select "paste".

Because she's (or he's) a troll, probably from another WWII forum here solely to f*** with the site and decrease its quality and irritate people with feigned stupidity and slightly less feigned ignorance of WWII related matters....

It's painfully obvious that this is at least partially coordinated, and I think I've had just about enough of it...With her, Bubba, and Winnipeg Rifles and his "opinuns on lea enfeld rifles being supargrate but not as grate as a Car98 but stil beter then a m-1 grand rifle."

This thread is/was a nice tribute her "Aly's" M.O.:

-Repeatedly ask dumb questions on the most basic of topics to irritate -topics that only the most retarded person wouldn't know- and if she were for real, would be unable to log onto the internet!

-Show somewhat of a prior-knowledge about WWII, then follow up with complete ignorance, ridiculous statements, and troll argument. The case in point here was her statement about the Mosquito bomber being a dive bomber...

Show a basic knowledge about WWII era equipment including and spelling words like "Mosquito" correctly; then she makes an absurd statement that she couldn't have read anywhere and manages to misspell "Mosqiteo" several times thereafter. So basically, she wants to learn about WWII, but then make ridiculous statements and continues to defend them against her admitted betters..

It's a game, "she's" a hoax-poster and troll, and I'm tried of feeling like I've been had...

Rising Sun*
11-07-2008, 08:51 AM
Because she's (or he's) a troll, probably from another WWII forum here solely to f*** with the site and decrease its quality and irritate people with feigned stupidity and slightly less feigned ignorance of WWII related matters....

It's painfully obvious that this is at least partially coordinated, and I think I've had just about enough of it...

This thread is/was a nice tribute her "Aly's" M.O.:

-Repeatedly ask dumb questions to irritate that only the most retarded person wouldn't know that if she were for real, would be unable to log onto the internet!

-Show somewhat of a prior-knowledge about WWII, then follow up with complete ignorance, ridiculous statements, and troll argument. The case in point here was her statement about the Mosquito bomber being a dive bomber...

Firstly, she knows about the aircraft and spells it correctly, then makes an absurd statement that she couldn't have read anywhere and manages to misspell "Mosqiteo" several times thereafter...

It's a game, "she's" a hoax-poster and troll, and I'm tried of feeling like I've been had...

Stand by for disingenuous denial, along the lines that she's just a girl (26 y.o., FFS!) and how this is just another example of people trying to get other members to hate her, blah, blah, blah!

Oh, sorry, I've just deprived her of that line.

Stand by for oblique attack containing rallying call for those opposed to bullying a poor dumb little girl who loves WWII but is supposedly too congenitally stupid to know anything about it, except to the extent necessary to create trolling statements.

Oh, sorry, I've just deprived her of that line.

Stand by for predictable troll response not falling into either of the above categories, yet still managing to invoke them.

Oh, sorry, I've just deprived her of that line.

So it'd be best if she just stopped posting.

No prizes for guessing her response to that. :rolleyes:

Django
11-09-2008, 05:39 PM
Well she-he is trolling on another forum now, it was so easy to recognize.....sad lol

SS Ouche-Vittes
11-25-2008, 02:36 PM
Despite troll attempts at ruining this thread, I would like to say in my opinion the D4Y Suisei was the best dive bomber. It was fast and agile(i'm guessing the latter part due to it's light weight.) But it came late during the war. It had great range and an excellent cruising speed. Had it been introduced much earlier I'm sure the US forces would of suffered more losses.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/D4Y3_pulling_up.jpg/800px-D4Y3_pulling_up.jpg

HAWKEYE
12-04-2008, 04:53 AM
Finally, after nearly three pages of BS, seems the trolling worked, something about dive bombers.

If I may add this, the F4U Corsair was also used as an effective dive bomber, the front strut covers were designed to do double duty as dive brakes. Many WWII photos of attacking Corsairs can be seen with the landing gear in the down position.

Ivaylo
12-14-2008, 09:18 AM
For me without doubt the Ju-87 expecially in the early war years .