What Unit Would You Serve In

[Dallas]

OK, this is very simple, what 5 to 10 units would you like to have served in if you could be magically transported back to WWII, young and fit? Mine are as follows:

1st Special Service Force (US/Canada)
82nd Airborne Div. (US)
101st Airborne Div. (US)
1st Infantry Div. (US)
Alamo Scouts (US)
2nd Armored Div. (US)
4th Armored Div. (US)
6th Airbourne Div. (UK)
1st Airbourne Div. (UK)
7th Armoured Div. (UK)

[Nickdfresh]

I'd of initially said the 1st SSF for one. But after reading of some of their experiences in Italy in 1944 (like losing 40% of their strength in the opening minutes of one battle as they were inappropriately used as regular infantry), I'm not so sure now...

[Dallas]

Which other 4 to 9 units would you have served in.

[overlord644]

101 PID
82nd PID
17thPID
2nd Ranger Batt.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to be in anything on the eastern front or in the Wehrmacht, and although i would want to serve with a unit that knows what their doing, and for me thats the paratroops, i wouldn't want to be in one of the units that Monty pushed to oblivion as regular infantry like the british 6th and 1st airborne divisions. Also the US 4th and 28th divisions which were all but decimated in the Heurtgen forest seem very unappealing

[Dallas]

For those Allied units you list, it was the combat elements of the units that were decimated, not the combat support or rear echelon troops.

[Dallas]

101 PID
82nd PID
17thPID
2nd Ranger Batt.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to be in anything on the eastern front or in the Wehrmacht, and although i would want to serve with a unit that knows what their doing, and for me thats the paratroops, i wouldn't want to be in one of the units that Monty pushed to oblivion as regular infantry like the british 6th and 1st airborne divisions. Also the US 4th and 28th divisions which were all but decimated in the Heurtgen forest seem very unappealing


The proper designation for a U.S. Airborne Division would be 82 A/B Div., 101st A/B Div. or 17th A/B Div. Individual Parachute Infantry Regiments would be listed as 506th PIR, 508th PIR or 505th PIR. There is no such thing as a PID.

[Nickdfresh]

Which other 4 to 9 units would you have served in.


Oh, I'm not much for these threads, but:

The OSS
The Marine Corp 'Raiders' to 1st Marine Div
101st or 82d Airborne Div
The 10th Mountain Div
Pre-War volunteer to the British Army- 6th Paras
Volunteer to the RAF
The 1st Inf. Div
3rd Armored Div
USAAF 8th Air Force flight crew/pilot
Vounteer to Canadian Army - Princess Patricia's Light Infantry

I think in any of those units I'd be just as dead. :)

[pdf27]

The REME, being as I'm currently in them. Funny, that.

In reality of course I suspect I'd be straight onto the reserved occupations list, but never mind...

[Rising Sun*]

In reality of course I suspect I'd be straight onto the reserved occupations list,

I'd aim for that, or a medical deferment, but if I was forced to join up I'd go for something like the Pay Corps with a "not to serve outside Australia or be sent anywhere he might get hurt or be made to work outside 9 to 5' endorsement.

[Nickdfresh]

I'd aim for that, or a medical deferment, but if I was forced to join up I'd go for something like the Pay Corps with a "not to serve outside Australia or be sent anywhere he might get hurt or be made to work outside 9 to 5' endorsement.

Then how'd you end up firing machine guns? :D

You'd of been a Chindit...

[Rising Sun*]

Then how'd you end up firing machine guns? :D


It was an accident.

I got confused.

The army deceived me.

I never meant to do it.

I thought I was joining the women's army [Reference my avatar, my ideal unit, the WWII Women's Land Army. Not real army. All women, except me. Couldn't serve outside Australia. On farms where you could beat the food rationing.], where I'd be safe. And get lots of sex. :D

[pdf27]

I'd aim for that, or a medical deferment, but if I was forced to join up I'd go for something like the Pay Corps with a "not to serve outside Australia or be sent anywhere he might get hurt or be made to work outside 9 to 5' endorsement.
<shrugs> It isn't like I'd have much of a choice - I'm a qualified Aeronautical engineer, and IIRC that was enough to put you straight on the reserved occupations list whether you liked it or not...

I thought I was joining the women's army [Reference my avatar, my ideal unit, the WWII Women's Land Army. Not real army. All women, except me. Couldn't serve outside Australia. On farms where you could beat the food rationing.], where I'd be safe. And get lots of sex.
How about the Women's Auxiliary Balloon Corps?

[Dallas]

I don't think some of the respondants have quiet caught the spirit of the question. :shock:

[Nickdfresh]

Welcome to WW2incolor...

[pdf27]

I don't think some of the respondants have quiet caught the spirit of the question. :shock:
Quite a number of us are young, fit, and in the military in wartime. Funnily enough we tend to have short shrift for questions like that...

[Rising Sun*]

How about the Women's Auxiliary Balloon Corps?

The women I'm interested in won't need auxiliary balloons.

Standard issue of two is enough for me.

[Rising Sun*]

Quite a number of us are young, fit, and in the military in wartime. Funnily enough we tend to have short shrift for questions like that...

Some of us are old, unfit, and were in the military when there was a bit of international unpleasantness going on.

[overlord644]

i dont know, when i saw what unit you would serve in then i just assumed combat was a give, and in response to nickdfresh's post, i would have chosen the raiders but i wo0uldnt want my unit to be disbanded and to be folded into regular infantry

[Dallas]

Quite a number of us are young, fit, and in the military in wartime. Funnily enough we tend to have short shrift for questions like that...

I am a veteran myself. This question was not meant to be insulting. It was an effort to see which units the members of this board might have liked to serve in had they been able to. I do not mean to be insulting but the fact you are not amused does not impress me in the least.

[Panzerknacker]

I am a veteran myself. This question was not meant to be insulting. It was an effort to see which units the members of this board might have liked to serve in had they been able to. I do not mean to be insulting but the fact you are not amused does not impress me in the least.

I am pretty sure that neither of the responses to you request intended to be insulting either, is just that some of the people here have an odd sence of humour ( and some a very odd one) . But just stay some months with us and you ll be fine :cool:

[Firefly]

I'd agree with that, once youve been in for a few years and turn old and wise [allegedly] some of the frontline units definately lose their glamour. By frontline for me I of course mean at least 200 miles away from the frontline ensconced in a 5 Star hotel, complaining about the laundry service only being 3 times a week and the aircon being a tad too cold.

The lads dont really mean to be insulting and Im sure they werent trying to be, its that old humour difference between us again.

Perhaps your question should have been:

'If you could travel back in time and view the actions of any units, which ones would you choose to view'.

Then you could experience all their actions without actually being in harms way. After all I think I would find it hard to explain to my wife why I suddenly appeared in the afternoon with my legs blown off.

'Er, just trimming the hedge darling, theres absolutely no way I went back in time and joined the Marines.'

[Rising Sun*]

After all I think I would find it hard to explain to my wife why I suddenly appeared in the afternoon with my legs blown off.

My wife and I share the same terrible fear about me being wounded: that I get my foot blown off.

Well, it's not really a foot, probably ten inches at best. :D

[Rising Sun*]

I am a veteran myself. This question was not meant to be insulting. It was an effort to see which units the members of this board might have liked to serve in had they been able to. I do not mean to be insulting but the fact you are not amused does not impress me in the least.

Mate, if I've offended you by acting the idiot, I'm sorry.

No offence was intended.

This isn't like some boards run like Belsen.

We're allowed to have a bit of fun here.

[Rising Sun*]

I'd agree with that, once youve been in for a few years and turn old and wise [allegedly] some of the frontline units definately lose their glamour. By frontline for me I of course mean at least 200 miles away from the frontline ensconced in a 5 Star hotel, complaining about the laundry service only being 3 times a week and the aircon being a tad too cold.

You are a very brave man.

I don't measure proximity to the frontline in miles, but in continents. :D

I can also measure it in incontinence, but that's only if I get about one continent too close. :D

[Man of Stoat]

My thinking is along the lines of rising Sun and co-, preferably something which places a body of water between me and any potential two-way range. perhaps a nice intelligence analysts job stationed somewhere pleasant in Wiltshire.

But, if I had to specify a combat unit, it would be 49 Para

[tankgeezer]

Quote, "Quite a number of us are young, fit, and in the military in wartime. Funnily enough we tend to have short shrift for questions like that..."

Not me,, I'm old and cranky, so I'd just complain the enemy into surrendering,,:) But since you ask, I'd choose an Armored posting,and be in the front of the attack. (Just make sure I get an M-4 with the super 76 gun.or a pershing please,,)

[Rising Sun*]

Not me,, I'm old and cranky, so I'd just complain the enemy into surrenering,,:)

I didn't realise there were units like that.

I like the idea of a talking war. Some people might even think I had a chance of winning it. ;)

If I was absolutely forced to go on active service, I'd like to be a REMF in your unit. :D

[kallinikosdrama1992]

if it was me i would like to be in :
101st Airborne to be exact in 506th Parachut Infantry Regiment
82nd airborne
2nd Rangers Battalion
1st marines
2nd marines

[Rising Sun*]

if it was me i would like to be in :
101st Airborne to be exact in 506th Parachut Infantry Regiment
82nd airborne
2nd Rangers Battalion
1st marines
2nd marines

You're allowed to pick any units you like. Not just American ones.

Why not pick some Greek units and tell us why you like them? Most of us probably don't know much about them.

[kallinikosdrama1992]

you mean units of ww2 or also modern one ?

[Dallas]

World War II or if you prefer, the Second World War.

[kallinikosdrama1992]

ok then dallas my mistake . world war 2 .
ok about the units i would like to serve :

71st Airborne Brigade

5th Rangers Squadron
1st Rangers Squadron
7th Rangers Squadron

In greek army the rangers and the marines are attached to squadrons . Squadrons are the same with a battalion size unit .

the number of battalion and other army units has nothing to do with armed forces of other nations

sorry for my english

[GermanSoldier]

Just put me as a sniper in any division on the western front and I would be fine.

[RifleMan20]

Put me in any front line units in the eastern front with a m1 or kar and ill be fine

[Major Walter Schmidt]

Ill go with SS Sonderkommando-thats were they did stuf like V-1 and Ho229.

[Moreheaddriller]

Me Id go with the 8th ss cavalry division on the eastern front and on a other note wasnt the Sonderkommando the guys who try to fly their planes into enemy planes but unlike the japs would bail out at the last second

[Major Walter Schmidt]

No must be wrong unit I was talking about... the unit with the Wunderwaffen...

[imi]

5th SS Panzergrenadier Division "Wiking",or any unit who's in the axis side the Budapest Siege
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5955/ss05ug3.jpg

[flamethrowerguy]

The "Brandenburger" (german commandos) would be diversified. You wouldn't have to wear the same uniform for years, you could enen dress in civil clothes from time to time.

[B5N2KATE]

If I had a choice, I would serve with the forces of the tiny country of ANDORRA in the Iberian Alps btwn Spain and France. They had a national defense budget of 10 dollars, all for ceremonial ammunition, and their motto for the 8 soldiers involved was "Touch Me If You Dare"....

Other than that, a post in the Swiss Guards at the Vatican ( a chance to dress up as a Renaissance chess piece)....

The Royal Candian Mounted Police Border Guards....

[Cash]

For me - RAF ground crew working on either Spits or Lancs.

Bomb aimer on Lancs or Halifaxes.

The thought of being an SOE operative fascinates me.

[A_rod]

I would have like to have been a paratrooper to honor my father who served in the 11th Airborne

[namvet]

what I did in real life. USN

[snebold]

Andorra sounds fine.
A German serving in Denmark would also be ok, they called it "the whipped cream" front.

I see that no one opted for Japanese units? Stationed somewhere too hot and humid to sustain human life with Bushido, small amounts of rice and all the grass, leaves or kelp you can eat isn´t attractive?

[pdf27]

Stationed somewhere too hot and humid to sustain human life with Bushido, small amounts of rice and all the grass, leaves or kelp you can eat isn´t attractive?
In my case I have a rather greater objection to the fact that they were pretty much all war criminals...

[Rising Sun*]

In my case I have a rather greater objection to the fact that they were pretty much all war criminals...

I think that's a bit harsh.

Pretty much all Japanese weren't war criminals, any more than pretty much all German soldiers were war criminals.

There is plenty of evidence of war crimes or, perhaps more accurately crimes against humanity, by both German and Japanese (and Allies, but that's always ignored), but it's not the case that all the service people engaged in such acts.

Most didn't.

[Rising Sun*]

Just to add to my last post, I don't think it's generally realised that some Japanese troops existed under awful conditions, even as early as late 1942 when they were still trying to hold New Guinea and Guadalcanal.

http://www.ww2australia.gov.au/beachheads/thin.html

They're not units anyone would want to serve in, but not because the members were mostly war criminals.

[Nickdfresh]

Just to add to my last post, I don't think it's generally realised that some Japanese troops existed under awful conditions, even as early as late 1942 when they were still trying to hold New Guinea and Guadalcanal.

http://www.ww2australia.gov.au/beachheads/thin.html

They're not units anyone would want to serve in, but not because the members were mostly war criminals.


I think the big problem, and what helped turn Japanese troops into "war criminals" --in China at least-- is the almost criminal negligence of the Japanese high command to reduce logistical matters like feeding their troops as a trivial afterthought. This did nothing but inspire a callous, almost Darwinist, brutality and indifference towards human suffering that filtered down from the highest levels of the Japanese Imperial Army commands to the privates and unfortunate, bottom-feeder, Korean draftees.

[Major Walter Schmidt]

In my case I have a rather greater objection to the fact that they were pretty much all war criminals...

If you say that, all US bomber crews are war crimminals:D

[pdf27]

Pretty much all Japanese weren't war criminals, any more than pretty much all German soldiers were war criminals.
I'd argue that the majority of the German soldiers who fought in Russia probably were. The mass murder of Russian PoWs, Russian Civilians, etc. involved the majority of the German troops present. Indeed, the German High Command had to give specific orders that troops were not to take time out to murder Jews because it was affecting combat efficiency.
I also hold perhaps a rather harsh view on the soldiers who were present when these atrocities were committed - in my view, any who were present and didn't in any way speak out against them share the culpability and were also war criminals.
As for the Japanese, quite apart from the fact that a very high fraction of the Japanese troops fought in China/Burma and hence were in areas where the local civilians were badly mistreated the use of what were effectively Korean slaves as "comfort women" is also arguably a war crime.

If you say that, all US bomber crews are war crimminals:D
Bombardment of defended towns is explicitly permitted under the Hague Convention of 1907, articles 25-27:
Art. 25.
The attack or bombardment, by whatever means, of towns, villages, dwellings, or buildings which are undefended is prohibited.

Art. 26.
The officer in command of an attacking force must, before commencing a bombardment, except in cases of assault, do all in his power to warn the authorities.

Art. 27.
In sieges and bombardments all necessary steps must be taken to spare, as far as possible, buildings dedicated to religion, art, science, or charitable purposes, historic monuments, hospitals, and places where the sick and wounded are collected, provided they are not being used at the time for military purposes.
It is the duty of the besieged to indicate the presence of such buildings or places by distinctive and visible signs, which shall be notified to the enemy beforehand.
Undefended clearly means "undefended by ground troops" - i.e. could be occupied without resistance. And the requirement for a warning "except in cases of assault" should IMHO be read as saying that you need not give a warning if to do so would put your own forces at significantly increased risk (clearly the case in an air attack).

[Major Walter Schmidt]

quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Sun*
Pretty much all Japanese weren't war criminals, any more than pretty much all German soldiers were war criminals.
I'd argue that the majority of the German soldiers who fought in Russia probably were. The mass murder of Russian PoWs, Russian Civilians, etc. involved the majority of the German troops present. Indeed, the German High Command had to give specific orders that troops were not to take time out to murder Jews because it was affecting combat efficiency.
I also hold perhaps a rather harsh view on the soldiers who were present when these atrocities were committed - in my view, any who were present and didn't in any way speak out against them share the culpability and were also war criminals.
As for the Japanese, quite apart from the fact that a very high fraction of the Japanese troops fought in China/Burma and hence were in areas where the local civilians were badly mistreated the use of what were effectively Korean slaves as "comfort women" is also arguably a war crime.


Then GIs who shot German POWs are war criminals- so is Bradley (maybe it was patton) Who said "I don want any captured German Snipers". (he was implying that they should be shot) Shooing people who surendered was common in the US army in Europe.

[pdf27]

Then GIs who shot German POWs are war criminals- so is Bradley (maybe it was patton) Who said "I don want any captured German Snipers". (he was implying that they should be shot) Shooing people who surendered was common in the US army in Europe.
Absolutely. Murdering PoWs is clearly a war crime (indeed, even mistreating them is one - and several British soldiers have recently been jailed for mistreating Iraqi prisoners under UK war crimes legislation). Ordering a "no survivors" policy with for example snipers is also explicitly a war crime, with both those who ordered it and those who carried it out being guilty.

The concept of command responsibility is such that if you know your unit is committing a war crime and do not actively seek to stop it then you become responsible for it.

[Major Walter Schmidt]

if you say that, many (if not most) soldiers in WWII are war crimminals.

[pdf27]

if you say that, many (if not most) soldiers in WWII are war crimminals.
Depends where they fought. The fighting in the Desert, France and Italy was overwhelmingly following the laws of war, with some pretty limited exceptions. On the Eastern Front and in Yugoslavia the Germans and their allies ignored the laws of war wholesale while the Russians sometimes followed them, and in the Pacific the Japanese rarely paid even lip service to them.

[Major Walter Schmidt]

Nah,, some japanese did commit warrimes (like unit731) but most didnt.

[pdf27]

You need to do a serious amount of reading. No matter where you look, cases of war crimes follow the Japanese army. From the treatment of Western PoWs, to the massacre of medical staff at the Battle of the Admin Box shortly before Imphal via the Rape of Nanking, wherever you look you find violations of the laws and customs of war. It gets even worse when you realise that Westerners were generally treated better than Asians by the Japanese. Chinese and Koreans were in particular treated very badly indeed.

[aly j]

gettin back 2 what the thread is about
i would be a prison guard .

[herman2]

I would like to be a bomber pilot and I would do whatever it takes to bomb the shit out of the enemy. If I were given the order to drop secret bombs then I would do so and take an order as a bomber pilot should. I am sure a lot of bomber pilots felt a stone in their stomach knowing their bombs were at times killing innocent human beings, but it would be the price to pay for Liberty. I hope I have expressed myself more eloquently this time around....

[namvet]

I would like to be a bomber pilot and I would do whatever it takes to bomb the shit out of the enemy. If I were given the order to drop secret bombs then I would do so and take an order as a bomber pilot should. I am sure a lot of bomber pilots felt a stone in their stomach knowing their bombs were at times killing innocent human beings, but it would be the price to pay for Liberty. I hope I have expressed myself more eloquently this time around....


indeed you have Herman. but you mentioned innocent human beings. and there's no way to keep from killing them. as many worked in the war plants. but I got in an argument on another board about bombing the concentration camps. ask many if given the order to bomb these camps would they obey???? it was a hot button issue. many said yes. the Jews were gonna die anyway. many said no way in hell am I bombing any prision camp. I found out many of the survivors agreed with those who wanted their camps bombed. some even prayed to be killed considering what they were going thru. I was one of those that said no way in hell. what do you think???? if ordered to bomb them would you???? keep in mind here I am NOT judging you or anyone for your decision. you don't even have to answer. I have considered posting this for discussion but was not sure what forum to put it in. Vet

[herman2]

I think many pilots who dropped the bomb during war never thought twice because they were so gung ho and only afterwards would I personally feel the guilt of the inhumane that I may have done. Can you imagine what went through the mind of the bomber pilot that dropped the A-bomb. I mean, he must of had nightmares about it until the day he died. I haven't read any biography on the A-bomb pilots but I can't imagine they led normal lives afterwards...What a horrible horrendous feeling to have to live with. BUT as a pilot i think i would have obeyed my orders and not thought of it at the time......

[aly j]

if you say that, many (if not most) soldiers in WWII are war crimminals.

My granddad in ww2 was an enginer, hes job was too repair tanks.
Before repairing the tanks ,he had too pick human parts out of the tank.
Is my granddad a criminal?:confused:

[Rising Sun*]

I was one of those that said no way in hell.

I'm with you, assuming that the only purpose of the bombing was to obliterate the camp. That just denies the poor bastards in there whatever chance they had of life and, worse, from people who ought to have been trying to save their lives. And what military or other purpose could it serve, apart from assisting the Nazis in exterminating people when the Allies were supposed to be standing for an opposing principle?

If it was an attempt to breach the wire to let the captives out (not that most would have anywhere to go) as happened in another air raid I can't quite recall against the walls of a prison in ?France ?Belguim to release ?Resistance fighters which didn't go all that well (?Mosquito bombers - someone will know), then I'd be in it. Because it offers a chance of life to the captives, rather than taking their lives.

[namvet]

I'm with you, assuming that the only purpose of the bombing was to obliterate the camp. That just denies the poor bastards in there whatever chance they had of life and, worse, from people who ought to have been trying to save their lives. And what military or other purpose could it serve, apart from assisting the Nazis in exterminating people when the Allies were supposed to be standing for an opposing principle?

If it was an attempt to breach the wire to let the captives out (not that most would have anywhere to go) as happened in another air raid I can't quite recall against the walls of a prison in ?France ?Belguim to release ?Resistance fighters which didn't go all that well (?Mosquito bombers - someone will know), then I'd be in it. Because it offers a chance of life to the captives, rather than taking their lives.

I was thinking along this track to. I posted this because I saw a documentary in which they interviewed former bomber crews. and this Q was asked of them. to a man they said no way in hell. they would disobey the order and prefer to go to jail rather than live with this the rest of their lives. many argued don't bomb the camps but rather the railways leading to the camps. well it would shut them down. but for how long??? and who would repair the damage???? I assume the Jews which means more died. its really a no win deal. the fact was the allies had NO resources for this anyway. prior to the Normandy invasion the camps were out of range. and the air forces were totally committed to bombing Germany.
here was the definitive article that settled it. an insight as to why the camps were not bombed. from a Jewish perspective. its in 3 parts by Michael Berenbaum.
the camps (the camps) this is part 1. scroll to the bottom for parts 2 and 3.

a note:
posted January 15th, 2008

When President George W. Bush visited Israel’s Memorial to the Holocaust, Yad Vashem, last Friday, he paused at the photograph of Auschwitz, called over Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, and said: “We should have bombed Auschwitz.”

Yet the issue is far more complex …



I did NOT agree with Bush here at all.
link (link)