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Panzerknacker
11-10-2007, 05:04 PM
It was like that ?

I am sure that everybody agree that Franco, Sanjurjo and the other Generals behind the uprising of a part of the army havent even a hair of democratic, but sadly some of his counterparts fighting for the goverment of Frente popular were not much different in metods.

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/5759/nopasarancw6.jpg

Nickdfresh
11-10-2007, 06:03 PM
I'm no expert on the Spanish Civil War and it's been a bit since I've read anything on the conflict. But I think it's not so easily distilled down to a cut and dry ideological reckoning of "democracy vs. fascism." I think it is better seen as a coalition of anti-fascists movements from Marxist-Leninists, Trotskyists, Anarchists, Socialists, left-of-center democrats, and various other idealists and ethnic minorities in Spain rallying against the Spanish Military coup led by Generalissimo Franco. One of the key reasons for the Republican cause's weakness was it's make up of all these factions that were often as prone to feuding with one another as they were with the fascists, making unity of command impossible and often poisoning any coordination...

But at heart of the Republican war effort was the fact that a democratic gov't had been overthrown..

Nickdfresh
11-10-2007, 06:21 PM
Incidentally, I voted twice for the first two, as Franco probably saw himself as saving Spain from radical elements. But of course, he actually destroyed whatever political order he was claiming to uphold and perpetuated a schism in Spanish society that lives on today...

Firefly
11-11-2007, 04:46 AM
I tend to agree with Nick here. There are many causes and reasons for Franco's actions. Wanting to be a dictator is certainly one of them.

As Nick said the two sides werent strictly Black and White. Indeed Communists and Anarchists fought each other as well as the Fascists/Royalists.

As this is a photo site below are a lot of photos and clippings from the War. The site is an anarchist one I think:

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/spancivwar/photobook/photohistorytable.html

Nickdfresh
11-11-2007, 06:52 AM
I tend to agree with Nick here. There are many causes and reasons for Franco's actions. Wanting to be a dictator is certainly one of them.

As Nick said the two sides werent strictly Black and White. Indeed Communists and Anarchists fought each other as well as the Fascists/Royalists.

As this is a photo site below are a lot of photos and clippings from the War. The site is an anarchist one I think:

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/spancivwar/photobook/photohistorytable.html

And don't forget the Soviet communists sometimes fought each other. I think George Orwell had to run for his life, after returning from the hospital, when he found the mostly Trotskyist-Russian unit he fought with had been "replaced" with the good men loyal to only Marshal Stalin...

Panzerknacker
11-11-2007, 09:44 AM
Interesting gallery Firefly.

A victim of "democracy":

José Calvo Sotelo (Tui, Pontevedra, May 6, 1893—Madrid, July 13, 1936) was a Spanish political figure prior to and during the Second Spanish Republic. His murder by a commando unit of the Assault Guards (and several socialist activists), a special police corps created to deal with urban violence, just the day after a harsh confrontation in Parliament, aroused suspicions of a government involvement in the crime and helped precipitate the Spanish Civil War.

An economist and jurist, he was secretary of the Academy of Moral and Political Sciences of the Ateneo Mercantil de Madrid and a university professor of the Universidad Central. He was affiliated with the Conservative Party of Antonio Maura Montaner. He first served as an administrative officer in the Ministry of Grace and Justice. In 1919 he was chosen as a deputy to the Cortes for the district of Carballino (Ourense), and in 1922 he was made civil governor of Valencia.When Miguel Primo de Rivera became dictator of Spain in 1924 he appointed Calvo Sotelo as finance minister in 1925.

Calvo Sotelo was forced into exile when the Republic was proclaimed (1931). Calvo Sotelo returned to Spain after he was amnestied in May 1934, becoming a deputy for Renovación Española. He soon became one of the most important right-wing political figures in the country. Calvo Sotelo unsuccessfully attempted to gain control of the Falange Española from José Antonio Primo de Rivera in 1935. Calvo Sotelo was harshly critical of the Republican government after the electoral victory of the leftist Popular Front in February 1936.

Assassination:On the night of July 12, 1936, a lieutenant in the Republican Assault Guards and active member of the Socialist Party, José Castillo, was murdered in Madrid by gunmen of far right, carlist members of the Tercio de Requetés of Madrid, according to the historian Ian Gibson, or Falangist according to other authors like Paul Preston. In the first hours of the next day, July 13, members of the Assault Guards, Juventudes Socialistas Unificadas and the captain of Civil Guard Fernando Condés, went to Calvo Sotelo's house, took him in front of his wife and children showing a fake arrest warrant, and later killed him in a police truck. His corpse was later left in the cemetery. According to all later investigations the perpetrator of the murder was a socialist gunman, Luis Cuenca, who was known as bodyguard of the Socialist Party leader Indalecio Prieto.In the days following, the Spanish Government, apparently unwilling of both to assert itself in front of its own police and to deny the general perception of that he was somehow involved in the shocking murder, only undertook a routine investigation that never reached any conclusion. This only accelerated the preparations for a military revolt that was being developed since the electoral triumph of the Popular Front in the month of February. Thus, on July 17, 1936 took place the uprising of the army of Africa in Melilla that, under the assumed command of Generals Emilio Mola, Francisco Franco and José Sanjurjo, resulting in the Spanish Civil War.


Edited by me to correct some paragraphs "sticked" due forum software bugs.

Man of Stoat
11-12-2007, 02:46 AM
Had Franco not won, Spain would have become a Soviet dominated satellite state, given the way that the republican elements directly supported by the Soviets were doing away with all the non Soviet elements by the usual NKVD methods (i.e. arresting and shooting them).

Either way, Spain loses, but Franco was definitely the lesser of two evils -- compere, for instance, Spain 1975 (popular holiday destination albeit run by a soft-Fascist dictator) and any of the Soviet satellite states in Eastern Europe in 1975 (totalitarian hell holes that people were fleeing from). Had the Republicans won we would have had Western Europe essentially bracketed by totalitarian Soviet satellite states, and the Cold War could have been rather different.

Rising Sun*
11-12-2007, 06:00 AM
Had Franco not won, Spain would have become a Soviet dominated satellite state, given the way that the republican elements directly supported by the Soviets were doing away with all the non Soviet elements by the usual NKVD methods (i.e. arresting and shooting them).

Either way, Spain loses, but Franco was definitely the lesser of two evils -- compere, for instance, Spain 1975 (popular holiday destination albeit run by a soft-Fascist dictator) and any of the Soviet satellite states in Eastern Europe in 1975 (totalitarian hell holes that people were fleeing from). Had the Republicans won we would have had Western Europe essentially bracketed by totalitarian Soviet satellite states, and the Cold War could have been rather different.

Perhaps, but Spain would have been in the unusual position of losing to the communists pre-war and, unlike post-war eastern Europe, being geographically isolated from the mother country in Russia, surrounded by the essentially pro-fascist Salazar in Portugal and other anti-communist / pro-fascist regimes.

I'm not sure that Spain could ever have become anything like, say, Castro's Cuba but in the 1930's at the base of Europe if that had happened.

Much of the conflict in Spain was largely a symbolic collision between competing conceptions of various noble philosophies in what seemed to be a unique time.

Until Bush the Idiot unleased the modern version in other places.

Panzerknacker
11-12-2007, 06:08 AM
Hmmmm, there was nothing noble in the anarchist and Stalinist fighters but a large wish to revenge against the one viewed as opresors of the people, that is the landowners and the spanish Church.

Nickdfresh
11-12-2007, 06:12 AM
I must say though as for Spain 'going communist,' while this was a distinct possibility as the Soviets were on fact trying to consolidate their power over the resistance, many in the Republican side are historically somewhat bitter that it was the Soviets that offered the material aid closest to that of the German and Italian aid to the Nationalist side, while Britain and France largely stood by...

The Western powers were hesitant to get into a "proxy war" with Germany and also had significant social schisms in their countries regarding conflicts between the left and the right in light of the world wide depression, and were probably happy to see the most active of their leftists go to fight the fascists in Spain. While I believe France did offer some financial and material aid, for the most part, the early arms embargo put the Republicans at a severe disadvantage in the fighting...Which was something the Soviets were very happy to take advantage of.

Rising Sun*
11-12-2007, 06:24 AM
Hmmmm, there was nothing noble in the anarchist and Stalinist fighters but a large wish to revenge against the one viewed as opresors of the people, that is the landowners and the spanish Church.

I think the links with the Catholic Church, which go back a long way and link in with the dominant elements in Spain (as a bit of a reaction to the Moorish invasion and related conflcts) are also important in understanding Franco etc.

Firefly
11-12-2007, 12:40 PM
Perhaps, but Spain would have been in the unusual position of losing to the communists pre-war and, unlike post-war eastern Europe, being geographically isolated from the mother country in Russia, surrounded by the essentially pro-fascist Salazar in Portugal and other anti-communist / pro-fascist regimes.

I'm not sure that Spain could ever have become anything like, say, Castro's Cuba but in the 1930's at the base of Europe if that had happened.

Much of the conflict in Spain was largely a symbolic collision between competing conceptions of various noble philosophies in what seemed to be a unique time.

Until Bush the Idiot unleased the modern version in other places.

I agree here, I dont think Spain would have been a total Communist state, however, the Nazis may have invaded Spain if the left had won that war. I dont know how different the war may have been [if any] if Hitler had taken out the Spanish leftist state. But is sure is another 'what if'.

If the left had won, Im sure that the Anarchists, communists and democrats would have had a barney at some stage after the event.

Panzerknacker
11-12-2007, 05:14 PM
If the left won eventually the Stalinist would take the power, and with the Stalinist in power obviously no other way of commies would be allowed, so is very likely the the anarchist and socialist the didnt survive the"purges".

And talking about anarchist, here is one of the head of the CNT-FAi Buenaventura Durruti,

http://www.ruedoiberico.org/img/Peirats_la_cnt/1_Durruti.jpg

his most popular motto "La unica iglesia que ilumina es la que arde", the only chuch that enlightened us is the one wich burns.

This was not an idle propaganda slogan, in 1934-35 before the military uprising dozens of churchs were burned and nearly 650 priest asassinated by the anarchist.

And some people is surprized by the support of the spanish church to Franco s movement ? well, I dont.

Nickdfresh
11-12-2007, 05:41 PM
If the left won eventually the Stalinist would take the power, and with the Stalinist in power obviously no other way of comisn would be allowed, so is very likely the the anarchist and socialist the didnt survive the"purges".

And talking about anarchist, here is one of the head of the CNT-FAi Buenaventura Durruti,

http://www.ruedoiberico.org/img/Peirats_la_cnt/1_Durruti.jpg

his most popular motto "La unica iglesia que ilumina es la que arde", the only chuch that enlightened us is the one wich burns.

This was not an idle propaganda slogan, in 1934-35 before the military uprising dozens of churchs were burned and nearly 650 priest asassinated by the anarchist.

And some people is surprized by the support of the spanish church to Franco s movement ? well, I dont.

Remember though, the dirty war and assassinations went both ways - and Franco was one vindictive *****, keeping captured Republicans in slavery for years.

I think they discovered a mass grave not long ago that dug up some old wounds, no pun intended...

Panzerknacker
11-12-2007, 06:29 PM
So what ?The anarchist terror is not a response to Francos s coup, those happen before the Military uprising.

Nickdfresh
11-12-2007, 07:18 PM
So what ?The anarchist terror is not a response to Francos s coup, those happen before the Military uprising.


There was terror in the country long before that, strikers and protesters on the left were often found dead or were killed by police during strikes. Terror happened before the Republicans took power as factions struggled for power. The priests are no different than anyone else...

And Franco's coup had little to do with saving the priests of Spain; I think his forces killed a few of their own...And I think the numbers of Franco's "White Terror" are far greater than any purges and executions by the Republicans...

Rising Sun*
11-12-2007, 08:05 PM
So what ?The anarchist terror is not a response to Francos s coup, those happen before the Military uprising.

The leftist actions were in part a response to rightist actions going back over a century, as typified by the Society of the Exterminating Angel run by a Catholic bishop about a century before the Spanish Civil War. The Society existed to exterminate liberals.
p.44 at http://books.google.com/books?id=p7vqPNB6locC&pg=PA44&lpg=PA44&dq=%22society+of+the+exterminating+angel%22&source=web&ots=xjsVi5_nkI&sig=-QdVOsaw34hIFLC88tzld7Qfj8Y#PPA44,M1

It's a chicken and the egg situation. Neither side had clean hands.

Panzerknacker
11-12-2007, 09:13 PM
The leftist actions were in part a response to rightist actions going back over a century, as typified by the Society of the Exterminating Angel run by a Catholic bishop about a century before the Spanish Civil War. The Society existed to exterminate liberals.

Perhaps but they made use of a weak spot in the fresh republican goverment wich was sadly that the police had orders to not intervene and the Guardia Civil didnt do anything to stop it the looting and burning.

Dear Nick, if you have some idea of how ultracatolic was ( and I have some because I have some relatives there) a large part of the Spanish population you might aprecciate the shock that those assasinations caused...not to mention the wish of revenge. Obviously at the end nobody had clean hands, but this only help to justify the Nationalist "no mercy" rule against prisoners of war, particulary anarchist.

And yes, the Nationalist forces killed some priest, all in Basque country, the alleged reason was "to morally support a godless movement"


By the way here is an interesting document wich deal with the prelude of the war:

http://stage6.divx.com/History---World-War-II/video/1720871/Prelude-to-Tragedy

Nickdfresh
11-13-2007, 09:16 AM
Perhaps but they made use of a weak spot in the fresh republican goverment wich was sadly that the police had orders to not intervene and the Guardia Civil didnt do anything to stop it the looting and burning.

Dear Nick, if you have some idea of how ultracatolic was ( and I have some because I have some relatives there) a large part of the Spanish population you might aprecciate the shock that those assasinations caused...not to mention the wish of revenge. Obviously at the end nobody had clean hands, but this only help to justify the Nationalist "no mercy" rule against prisoners of war, particulary anarchist.

And yes, the Nationalist forces killed some priest, all in Basque country, the alleged reason was "to morally support a godless movement"


By the way here is an interesting document wich deal with the prelude of the war:

http://stage6.divx.com/History---World-War-II/video/1720871/Prelude-to-Tragedy

I'm not defending the non-intervention by the Civil Guard into murders and rampages against the Catholic Church. However, could anyone find Franco's wholesale genocide against anyone even slightly left-of-center, including liberal capitalists? Numbers as high as 200,000 of them? And don't kid yourself, not all of those priests were "innocent men of God martyred" either...

He's no "hero." He could have returned the country to civil democratic rule, but instead ran it as a corrupt, fascist regime that continued extra-judicial killings and formed a a virtual slave class out of the defeated legions of the Republicans for years...

Panzerknacker
11-13-2007, 04:58 PM
I'm not defending the non-intervention by the Civil Guard into murders and rampages against the Catholic Church

I never said you did.



He's no "hero." He could have returned the country to civil democratic rule, but instead ran it as a corrupt, fascist regime that continued extra-judicial killings and formed a a virtual slave class out of the defeated legions of the Republicans for years


Obviously not, a man who stay in power more than 30 tears hardly could be callled hero. the slave thing... well I need to search more info about.

Egorka
11-14-2007, 01:42 AM
Picture from the Spanish Civil War:
La guerra ilustrada (http://laguerrailustrada.blogspot.com/)
Spanish Civil War Propaganda (http://www.espol.com/sections/World/thematics/spanish-propaganda.htm)

Nickdfresh
11-14-2007, 05:50 AM
On a side note, isn't anything but 'anarchist' to join together into military units?

Man of Stoat
11-14-2007, 05:59 AM
A lot of those that referred to themselves as "anarchists" were as much totalitarian socialists as the Communists.

Rising Sun*
11-14-2007, 06:30 AM
A lot of those that referred to themselves as "anarchists" were as much totalitarian socialists as the Communists.

A. Doesn't matter who they are. They're all politicians. They all want power. Usually the most vicious fights are within rather than without the organisation. What remains often has more, rather than less, in common with the enemy. The circle of extremism that meets at the top.


B. About fifteen years ago, in my day job, an anarchist came to me.

He wanted advice about incorporating a club for anarchists.

As I so often do, I made an ill advised comment, along the lines of

"It intrigues me why the first thing that happens when a couple of anarchists get together is that they want to form an organisation."

He seemed offended.

I never saw him again.

Nickdfresh
11-14-2007, 06:35 AM
A. Doesn't matter who they are. They're all politicians. They all want power....

Exactly!


B. About fifteen years ago, in my day job, an anarchist came to me.

He wanted advice about incorporating a club for anarchists.

As I so often do, I made an ill advised comment, along the lines of

"It intrigues me why the first thing that happens when a couple of anarchists get together is that they want to form an organisation."

He seemed offended.

I never saw him again.


LOL That reminds of that band, Chumbawamba I think, that had that big hit in the late 1990s "Tub Thumping." (http://youtube.com/watch?v=fm4iU0yx9GY) They referred to themselves as an "anarchist collective." This made them ripe for continual ownings by journalists asking them how you can be a anarchist in a collective. :D

It's a great drinking song though...

Rising Sun*
11-14-2007, 06:56 AM
That reminds of that band, Chumbawamba I think, that had that big hit in the late 1990s "Tub Thumping." (http://youtube.com/watch?v=fm4iU0yx9GY) They referred to themselves as an "anarchist collective." This made them ripe for continual ownings by journalists asking them how you can be a anarchist in a collective. :D

It's a great drinking song though...

All songs are great drinking songs, if you drink while listening to them.

With one exception, I have never heard a song that can't be drunk to.

Or that can't be listened to while drunk.

Some songs encourage being drunk when they're played, such as anything by the Bay City Rollers, Mrs Miller, Tiny Tim, and all gangsta rap bad *** bling mofo pop a cap in da face of ma biaatch shit.

As for Chumbawamba, it's been very popular with various motivational and advertising thingies.

And here's the song that is unbearable sober and, uniquely, even less bearable when drunk, which when not speaking in tongues has the temerity to refer to being drunk in the lyrics http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeuNxMY_5Uo

Panzerknacker
11-14-2007, 05:28 PM
Picture from the Spanish Civil War:
La guerra ilustrada (http://laguerrailustrada.blogspot.com/)
Spanish Civil War Propaganda (http://www.espol.com/sections/World/thematics/spanish-propaganda.htm)

Very nice galleries, thanks. Definately the Republica won the propaganda war.

This is a good one "Marx, tu semillo fructifico", Marx your seed has grown...speak for itself. :rolleyes:

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/2611/psoe2bmadrid2bcolor2b4ij6.jpg

Incidentally the PSOE is the todays ruling party in "multinational" Spain.

Hunter
02-02-2008, 06:14 PM
Hi I have read this article about the spanish civil war but I still don't understand could somebody please explain to me?"

Panzerknacker
02-02-2008, 07:38 PM
Tell me wich part you dont understand and I ll be pleased to explain you.

Nickdfresh
02-03-2008, 09:40 AM
Very nice galleries, thanks. Definately the Republica won the propaganda war.

This is a good one "Marx, tu semillo fructifico", Marx your seed has grown...speak for itself. :rolleyes:

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/2611/psoe2bmadrid2bcolor2b4ij6.jpg

Incidentally the PSOE is the todays ruling party in "multinational" Spain.


Well, at least they can have elections now...:)

Panzerknacker
02-04-2008, 04:00 PM
Yeap, but is spected that the PP (partido Popular) shall win a crashing victory.

And with regard at the 1936 elections the final results were never published, is probably truth tos ay the left Union Popular won, but the percentage of that was never know.

Librarian
05-16-2009, 10:35 AM
Physicist work from data, poets and writers from intuition, and historians mainly from memories, honorable ladies and gentlemen - as if trying to save reality from some ether. But for some unknown reasons historical fact that tens of thousands of Moroccans who fought alongside General Francisco Franco from 1936 to 1939, during the Spanish Civil War, actually represented some kind of a non-existing phenomenon even among educated historians.

Although its outcome was determined to a large extent by the intervention of Hitler and Mussolini, who sent arms, supplies and soldiers to aid Franco, this disciplined and always serious man, a pious and conservative upper middle class Catholic, originally destined for a career as a naval officer, successfully used Moors as crusaders of traditionalist Christian Civilization in a striking instance of the pure historical irony.

Franco's conservatives, who proudly proclaimed that they were carrying on the chivalrous tradition of the Spanish knights who had driven the Moors from the sacred soil of their Christian country, crying "Death to the Moorish infidel!" – brought back Moorish troops by the thousands through means of unparalleled personally conveyed and financially supported persuasion of the overwhelming majority of Moorish tribes and their lords to choose the Nationalist ride. It really is an astonishing fact that over 70.000 North Africans – often organized in tabors, of approximately 250 men – fought for Franco and became the "vertebral column of the Nationalist Army", which distinguished in the battles of Madrid, Teruel and the Ebro.

This achievement was mainly a personal tribute of a single man – Franco - who volunteered for active duty in the colonial campaigns in Spanish Morocco that had begun in 1909, being transferred there in 1912 at the age of 19. The following year he was promoted to first lieutenant in an elite regiment of native Moroccan cavalry. At a time in which many Spanish officers were characterized by sloppiness and lack of professionalism, young Franco quickly showed his ability to command troops effectively and soon won a reputation for complete professional dedication. He devoted great care to the preparation of his unit and paid more attention than was common to the troops well-being. Reputed to be scrupulously honest, introverted, and a man of comparatively few intimate friends, he won respect of the local population also with his notorious ability to shun all frivolous amusements.

When at dawn on July 18, 1936 his manifesto acclaiming the military rebellion was broadcast from the Canary Islands, his old prominence was ready to lend a hand again. The following day he flew to Morocco and within 24 hours was firmly in control of the protectorate, its population and the Spanish Army garrisoning it. Since then, lance-bearing, scarlet-robed Moorish cavalrymen of the famous "Guardia Mora" have escorted him personally in every occasion, serving as his personal body guard unit until his death.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/LeibguardederCaudillo.jpg

Escolta de S.E. el Generalísimo - Escuadrón de Caballería Mora : Défilé au Galop (Original inscription: Die Leibgarde des Caudillo, "Signal" U/Nr. 8-41)

Their traditional, old-fashioned utmost loyalty was absolutely legendary, even providing an additional designation - "The Spanish Gurkhas" for those exceptional and forgotten soldiers, incomparable in their fidelity and reliability to those they served.

Panzerknacker
05-20-2009, 09:50 PM
Hmmm... I dont think they are so forgotten Lib. as you said they performed guard duties to Franco and were shown in public parades up to his death in 1975.

I read some time ago that the not only were moroccans but also a large quantity of Algerians enlisted in the Rebel army, mostly because unenmployent and also because the nationalist spreaded the rumour that the new Republicans were " enemies of Islam".

Librarian
05-23-2009, 03:00 PM
Maybe, my dear Mr. Panzerknacker. But we have to admit that there was and there still is very little original scientific research connected with this truly curious historical phenomenon. I know that there are still some unresolved issues, resulting mainly from conflicting reports, the lack of reliable sources, and a long period required for declassifying documents related to this specific topic. Nevertheless, it seems to me that we still are missing a coherent narrative about those dreadful, mysterious, indelible and rebellious fighters, which vividly and devotedly served their colonial masters in rough accordance with the old elegiac trepidation:

Without father without mother
Without God or homeland either
Without crib of coffin-cover
Without kisses or a lover...

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/Spain-MorrocanTroops-2.jpg

Moorish troops - Tétouan, 1936

Our main trouble is that vague, sweeping generalizations tend to be accepted by an ill-informed public, and build themselves up into unproductive but powerful myths. Events of this magnitude continue to command attention and demand explanation, and perhaps straightforward questions and straightforward, factual answers are the best way toward the substantial analyses of ideological, economic and strategic questions needed for proper establishment of historical context in which those events took place.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/Spain-MoroccanTroops-1.jpg

Moroccan troops in Sevilla approaching Catedral de Santa María de la Sede - 1936

For example: What were the names of commanding officers of the Moroccan troops? What was the average length of active service within Colonial troops? How many people actually served as professional soldiers within the Nationalist Army? How many military clergyman were active within the Guardia Mora? What were the principal forms of religious instruction? How much money was spent on those activities? How disabled and wounded Morrocan soldiers were helped to return to their homeland? How Spain cared for crippled soldiers? How many physicians, dentists and nurses cared about wounded Moroccans? What kind of medical care was provided for needy Moroccan soldiers? What military ranks Moroccans were allowed to hold?

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/Spain-MoroccanTroops-3.jpg

First contingent of Moroccan Regulares, transported by ship from Seuta, is arriving at Kadis – July 20th, 1936

Thos facts, my dear Mr. Panzerknacker are worth remembering, because - as you know - all historical parallels are imperfect and therefore dangerous. And that’s why our factographic undertaking is so challenging and utterly important. :)

Panzerknacker
05-24-2009, 09:36 AM
I think the higher rank was sargeant, captain and above were all spaniards.

By the way, sorry for my awful spelling in the lat post...i meaned this:



I read some time ago that the not only were moroccans but also a large quantity of Algerians enlisted in the Rebel army, mostly because unenmployent and also because the nationalist spreaded the rumour that the new Republicans were " enemies of Islam".

JR*
01-18-2016, 08:45 AM
I am going to risk a generalization. The business of the loyalty of Moorish troops to the Nationalist/rebel cause is, indeed, in many ways mysterious, and certainly worthy of further research. One general suggestion is that, apart from economic considerations, the unusual atmosphere in Morocco and Algeria during the vicious Rif War of the early 20th century may have been a contributing factor. The savage campaigns of that war - which blooded so many Spanish (and French) officers of the time seems to have promoted strong devotion to "strong" leaders. The reprobates of the Spanish Foreign Legion would have followed their Dirlewanger-style leader, Milán Astray, the Hell and back; the Moors seem to have taken a similar shine to his protégé, Franco. Just a thought. Someone may be able to expand on it. Best regards, JR.