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Rising Sun*
10-16-2007, 07:54 PM
IIRC, there were various incidents during the Yugoslav disasters in the 1990's where British, and probably other, troops had to force refugees back to their probable deaths and on other occasions were ordered to stand by while various bad things happened in front of them.

Anyone got any details of or links to such events?

What prompted this query is wondering if there were any events in Yugoslavia comparable with this butchery in Rwanda when peacekeepers were witnesses and potential victims. http://www.anzacday.org.au/history/peacekeeping/anecdotes/kibeho.html

1000ydstare
10-17-2007, 09:41 AM
Early on it happened alot. This was because the UN was in control and the idea was to find a "peaceful" solution. Soldiers were not allowed to shoot back and in some cases were not issued ammo or were disarmed.

Populations were to be left in situ so that normallacy could be achieved and they could live together happily..... as people are want to do when decades of bitterness and hatred explode over and each side commits ever worsening atrocities.

Civvies (UN types who were to oversee the ceasation of hostilities) could overide military descisions.

Obviously when all the hippy sh1t was scrapped and we introduced "big boys rules" the innocents were soon protected and safer. The warring factions soon realised that messing with Warriors, Challengers and AS 90 (amongst other things) was perhaps not a life extending choice.

The Dutch had to sit by and watch Sebrenica I think, although seen as a black mark against them, there was little they could do

Events were quite numourous to begin with. The French had a check point in Sarajevo, I think it was near the "Romeo and Jullliet" bridge, one night Serbs slit the guards throats, the French General sent tanks in to redress the balance, and was sacked for doing so!!!

Nickdfresh
10-18-2007, 01:07 PM
IIRC, there were various incidents during the Yugoslav disasters in the 1990's where British, and probably other, troops had to force refugees back to their probable deaths and on other occasions were ordered to stand by while various bad things happened in front of them.

Anyone got any details of or links to such events?

What prompted this query is wondering if there were any events in Yugoslavia comparable with this butchery in Rwanda when peacekeepers were witnesses and potential victims. http://www.anzacday.org.au/history/peacekeeping/anecdotes/kibeho.html

I think the main shame goes to the Dutch Army at Srebrenica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre) in 1995...

Chevan
10-19-2007, 01:39 AM
I think the main shame goes to the Dutch Army at Srebrenica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre) in 1995...

But most of shame is the Western mass media lie about Srebrenica
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=8244
Form 8 000 of suggested "muslim victims" only 2300 bodies was found out and many of them were the muslim fighters not the civiliance.
Besides is a great shame that Muslims around Crebrenica murdered the serbs under cover of the UN troops and Dutch retards.
For instance Muclim War criminal Naser Orich had arganized the ethnical clarising of the about 50 serbian villiages, and killing manies of the serbian pows.
This muslim scum had WAS covered by UN troops in Srebrenica.

Firefly
10-19-2007, 07:22 AM
I think thats a load of Bollocks Chevan. A lot of bodies may never be found. Also just because someone is in the militia doesnt make the atoricty any worse.

Chevan
10-19-2007, 07:37 AM
I think thats a load of Bollocks Chevan. A lot of bodies may never be found. Also just because someone is in the militia doesnt make the atoricty any worse.
Firefly, in Srebrenica there were found out a lot of civiliance VICTIMS from a both side- this is a FACT.
But other fact is that the so called Huge tribunal simply close eyes to the Crimes against Serbians.
Besides they insolently increased the "innocent" victims of Serbian army in SEVERAL times.
This is not a justice - this pure anti-serbs propoganda.
And supporting of Muslim extremism in the Europe, nothing more.

Rising Sun*
10-19-2007, 07:54 AM
And supporting of Muslim extremism in the Europe, nothing more.

Are you saying that the UN and or NATO governments supported Muslim extremists in Europe?

Rising Sun*
10-19-2007, 08:03 AM
Also just because someone is in the militia doesnt make the atoricty any worse.

I'd suggest that it does in one way, and not in another.

Irregular militias aren't under the same sort of control as regular armies, so they can go off on frolics of their own. So they're more likely to do bad things.

Conversely, if it's done by militias under central government control as part of a government policy, it's 'worse' than just the actions of irregular militias who don't represent the government.

I'm a bit elastic in terms here, using militia to mean simply forces more or less in uniform behaving more or less like a military force (usually less) but not part of the established full or part time forces of the nation.

'Irregular' here means just not part of the established part time forces of the nation, as distinct from the other definitions of irregulars which apply more to insurgents and guerrillas.

Nickdfresh
10-19-2007, 08:18 AM
But most of shame is the Western mass media lie about Srebrenica...


http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2248829/2/istockphoto_2248829_foil_beanie.jpg

Nickdfresh
10-19-2007, 08:20 AM
Firefly, in Srebrenica there were found out a lot of civiliance VICTIMS from a both side- this is a FACT.
But other fact is that the so called Huge tribunal simply close eyes to the Crimes against Serbians.
Besides they insolently increased the "innocent" victims of Serbian army in SEVERAL times.
This is not a justice - this pure anti-serbs propoganda.
And supporting of Muslim extremism in the Europe, nothing more.

That's not true. Several Croat generals and Bosnian Muslim commanders have been indicted...

The Serbs simply had more military power for longer, and could do much worse and a much wider scale...

And by taking the side of those under attack, the West PREVENTED Islamic extremism from entering Europe.

Chevan
10-21-2007, 11:45 PM
Are you saying that the UN and or NATO governments supported Muslim extremists in Europe?
EXACTLY;)
They not just support them via propoganda and politicy in mass media , but supplied them the wearpon and ammunition.
The NATO helped them very much almost officially.
And there a lot of Serbs evidences of it. For instance after "UN humanitarian" mission in Srebrenica the peoples in surround city have lack of food, but the Muslim extremists has ENOUGHT wearpon to attack the serbs villigiages aroung. Do you guess who did provise them wearpons?

Chevan
10-22-2007, 12:48 AM
That's not true. Several Croat generals and Bosnian Muslim commanders have been indicted...

Oh really they have been?
Look for the Naser Orich.http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/53/Oric.JPG/200px-Oric.JPG
His gang in 1992 after the capturing of Srebrenica has immediatelly begin the ethical terror of Serbs.
Since the 1992 -1995 he organized the attack agains the Serbbs villiages brutally killind about 3500 CIVILS.
in 2003 he was caught by UN and after 3-year Huge tribunal court he was sentenced .......... to 2 YEARS of prison.
And was immediatelly has realised to the freedom after the sentence:)
For killing of the 3500 - two years . What a f..ng humanism Nicki?
At the same time the some of Serbs military leaders were sentenced for the 20-30 years for the war crimes.


The Serbs simply had more military power for longer, and could do much worse and a much wider scale...

We as i guess you simply read ONLY western atni-serbs propoganda.
For the ethnical clearising of ove Serbian village - you do not need a great military power.
You need just a band of war criminals , armed by NATO


And by taking the side of those under attack, the West PREVENTED Islamic extremism from entering Europe.
Do not make me laught Nick?:D
West prevent ...nothin. And the last polotocal muslim mass protests after publishing of Muhamed caricatures and the riots in Paris in 2005 JUST proved the obvious fact - the muslims HAVE increased its power and influence in Europe.Especially after the "Victrory in the Bosnia".
Besides today West lobbied the creation the muslim states in former yugoslavian territory. In fact today over 80% of narco traffic to the Europe goes through those states. COz the their Muslims leaders have the traditionally good relations with the Afganistan.

1000ydstare
10-22-2007, 12:48 PM
Chevan,

Speaking from my experience and not really reading much in the way of media or media propaganda I can categorically say......

ALL claims of brutality and genocide are investigated thoroughly and independantly.

There are police officers (highly trained investigators, specialised in murder, rape etc and others) from many countries Hungary, Italy, Britain, America etc. All watched over by amongst others NATO, the EU, Amnisty Int, Red Cross and a fair few others.

ALL persons who are seen as potentially guilty (for want of a better word) are persued.

The list of war criminals IS getting smaller.

If there are more Serbs indited than Bosnians it because more Serbs have been accused and seen as inditable.

Chevan
10-23-2007, 02:49 AM
Chevan,

Speaking from my experience and not really reading much in the way of media or media propaganda I can categorically say......

ALL claims of brutality and genocide are investigated thoroughly and independantly.
There are police officers (highly trained investigators, specialised in murder, rape etc and others) from many countries Hungary, Italy, Britain, America etc. All watched over by amongst others NATO, the EU, Amnisty Int, Red Cross and a fair few others.

Hi ydstare.
just don't thnik i don't trust your life experience. Sure not. I know you are not a troll like me;)
But i have to notice you - was you are in Bosnia in 1995? Or did you read at least the Serbian point about the events in Yugoslavia?
I guess no.
I think you know the modern mass media gives us a so misrepresented poin that you need to read the opposite sources to learn the true.
And this is the ONLY way to learn the true when the sides are very biased.( especially if they are in a war)
You need to listen very carefully the "information" that they speak to us.
Let me to tell you a little more or less objective and neitral information


http://www.mail-archive.com/serbian_way@antic.org/msg00008.html
The Globe and Mail (Canada), July 14, 2005
The real story behind Srebrenica

By LEWIS MacKENZIE

In the vast majority of recent media reports, the background and responsibilities for the disaster in Srebrenica were absent. Preferred was the simple explanation: a black and white event in which the Serbs were solely to blame.

...................................
It didn't take long for the Bosnian Muslims to realize that the UN was in no position to live up to its promise to "protect" Srebrenica. With some help from outsiders, they began to infiltrate thousands of fighters and weapons into the safe haven. As the Bosnian Muslim fighters became better equipped and trained, they started to venture outside Srebrenica, burning Serb villages and killing their occupants before quickly withdrawing to the security provided by the UN's safe haven. These attacks reached a crescendo in 1994 and carried on into early 1995 after the Canadian infantry company that had been there for a year was replaced by a larger Dutch contingent.

The Bosnian Serbs might have had the heaviest weapons, but the Bosnian Muslims matched them in infantry skills that were much in demand in the rugged terrain around Srebrenica. As the snow cleared in the spring of 1995, it became obvious to Nasar Oric, the man who led the Bosnian Muslim fighters, that the Bosnian Serb army was going to attack Srebrenica to stop him from attacking Serb villages. So he and a large number of his fighters slipped out of town. Srebrenica was left undefended with the strategic thought that, if the Serbs attacked an undefended town, surely that would cause NATO and the UN to agree that NATO air strikes against the Serbs were justified. And so the Bosnian Serb army strolled into Srebrenica without opposition.

What happened next is only debatable in scale. The Bosnian Muslim men and older boys were singled out and the elderly, women and children were moved out or pushed in the direction of Tuzla and safety. It's a distasteful point, but it has to be said that, if you're committing genocide, you don't let the women go since they are key to perpetuating the very group you are trying to eliminate. Many of the men and boys were executed and buried in mass graves.

Evidence given at The Hague war crimes tribunal casts serious doubt on the figure of "up to" 8,000 Bosnian Muslims massacred. That figure includes "up to" 5,000 who have been classified as missing. More than 2,000 bodies have been recovered in and around Srebrenica, and they include victims of the three years of intense fighting in the area. The math just doesn't support the scale of 8,000 killed.

Nasar Oric, the Bosnian Muslim military leader in Srebrenica, is currently on trial in The Hague for war crimes committed during his "defence" of the town. Evidence to date suggests that he was responsible for killing as many Serb civilians outside Srebrenica as the Bosnian Serb army was for massacring Bosnian Muslims inside the town.

Two wrongs never made a right, but those moments in history that shame us all because of our indifference should not be viewed in isolation without the context that created them.

Retired major-general Lewis MacKenzie was the first commander of UN peacekeeping forces in Sarajevo.

So that's the Canadian officer think about "innocent muslim victims" who virtually provoked the Serbs to attack the "peacemakers" in aim to get the official support of USA and NATO.
And just notice- this man has no SYMPHATY to Serbs.
But he tell the things about he personally observed.
The Muslim ethnical terror aroung Srebrenica was a well documented.
There a lot of the video, pictures of Muslims crimes againd the civilians is exists.Here just a little part that give yo impression about.
http://rs-icty.org/glavna_galerija_video.htm
http://rs-icty.org/galleryphotos%20eng.htm
And may i ask you where were the "highly thained police experts officers" from many countries Hungary, Italy, Britain, America etc when the "investigated' the mass graves in Srebrenica , but ignored the graves of Serbs around the city.( as it was proved the polulation about 50 villages were executed).
May be from point of view of such hight trained offisers the life of ortodoxy serb woman and children is not REALLY so much costs like the Muslims ones.
And probably from a highly humanists moral of the US and EU experts the evil serbs ( if study them on the Western TV, cimema and media) don't even desrve to focuse their attention on those crimes( very expensive BTW).I don't know.
But i know at least one state that is openly not agree with it;)


ALL persons who are seen as potentially guilty (for want of a better word) are persued.

The list of war criminals IS getting smaller.

If there are more Serbs indited than Bosnians it because more Serbs have been accused and seen as inditable.[/QUOTE]
That fact is the bother me.
After the EXCLUDING of the list all non-serbs this has bacome TOO small.
Actually , if the Serbs strength were bigger- them automatically the others are not are War criminals - they are the heroes who fought for independence.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39100000/jpg/_39100351_oricunifafp203story.jpg
Muslim freedom fighters Nasr Orich : Allah akbar ........NATO will help us;)


The problem is no a thin list of war criminals- the problem that the men who was in head of the all Muslim 28 division in srebrenica and who PRERSONALY were responsible for all of action againts civilians around Srebrenica has been sentenced for .....two years.
The thousands of civils were brutally killed ( the most of muslim lovely way of killing - cutt of the heads, *****ing out eyes and ets) and the Naser Orich ......was realised right from a building of a court.
That's nice a justice. F...ck Carla del Ponta in a hell.