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View Full Version : What to do with fake vets?



Gen. Sandworm
10-14-2007, 03:31 PM
Thought I would get this out in the open for your input!

Kinda to school of thought here!



I think its a god idea to add it to the rules. Anyone found impersonating a serving or veteran military member will be warned and given 1 week to apologize. 2 point permanent infraction is automatic. If they do not within that time, then they will be banned.


What for ?The thing is simple, if somebody impersonates a ww2 veteran, Korea veteran, Vietnam veteran, Iraq veteran or whatever veteran, that person should be banned, 5 point, never and to other business.

Edited the quotes a bit. Im sure PK means active or veteran.

So what are your thoughts? Please vote and let us know.

pdf27
10-14-2007, 05:23 PM
I'd vote for giving them one chance to own up and apologise, with any further attempts at walting earning an instant ban. Not sure about setting a time limit of a week (these things are often unclear at first sight, with people trying to dig themselves out being what gives them away).
Instant banning on detection is probably a bad idea IMHO, simply because I've got the feeling that the majority of those pretending to be what they aren't on here are very young kids.

overlord644
10-14-2007, 05:35 PM
i figure you might as well just ban them, you gotta figure that its pretty much impossible to prove somebody isnt a veteran, so someone stupid enough to be found out really can't contribute very much anyway
I don't know about everyone else, but if i were busted on impersonating a veteran i wouldn't be able to show myself on the forum anyway,
But then again i myself am not a veteran so the decision should be left to someone who actually served

Gutkowski
10-14-2007, 06:05 PM
This is actually a crime here in the states and you will goto jail for posing as a Vet or active duty personnel it is called the Stolen Valor Act of 2005
http://www.homeofheroes.com/herobill/
http://www.homeofheroes.com/herobill/legislation.pdf
Me I would say a instant ban but being that there are many Kids here on the forums and some who do this to gain attention to themselves I say 4 infraction points for this offense (the max is 5 ?).
There should also be a sticky posted stating what the rules are about doing this for future reference for all to see .

That spirit should be nurtured, the imagination should always remain fertile, and we all need a little magic in our lives but this is not the way to do that (boy can you tell I have 2 kids LOL )

My vote is for infraction points and not to ban the member who just did this nor should they write a letter or statement about their actions the embarrassment is enough .Like I said post a sticky in the forums about doing such and the recourse that will follow if someone does this in the future .

So I voted other

Firefly
10-14-2007, 06:14 PM
I would go with my initial thoughts. 2 point permanent infraction if they admit it and if they dont within a week of a PM by a Mod then a ban.

Some young guys may go on to learn and contribute after all and I think my way is a fair compromise.

tankgeezer
10-14-2007, 07:05 PM
I'm at odds about this one,, but I guess one chance to straighten up, then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Dani
10-14-2007, 11:13 PM
I would go with my initial thoughts. 2 point permanent infraction if they admit it and if they dont within a week of a PM by a Mod then a ban.

Some young guys may go on to learn and contribute after all and I think my way is a fair compromise.

Agree with FF on this one.

Cuts
10-15-2007, 04:25 AM
I think I made it clear on Sgt Dorr's "I am a liar" thread that I have fairly robust views on the subject.
That said, I believe most of the walts we've seen here are children.
They have an over-active imagination and are used to creating personae in games, both on and offline.

In general children do not possess the same degree of knowledge about conflict as adults, (especially those that have served,) and in fairness they should not be treated in the same manner as the so-called adults who attempt similar deceptions.
If a ten year old took something from a shop we would not expect them to face the same punishment as a man of thirty.

Perhaps the problem of walts and trolls should be handled on a case by case basis, let's face it, Tinwalt got away with posting the most foolish babble for far too long before he was binned for non-PC ramblings.

Rising Sun*
10-15-2007, 06:06 AM
I think I made it clear on Sgt Dorr's "I am a liar" thread that I have fairly robust views on the subject.
That said, I believe most of the walts we've seen here are children.
They have an over-active imagination and are used to creating personae in games, both on and offline.

In general children do not possess the same degree of knowledge about conflict as adults, (especially those that have served,) and in fairness they should not be treated in the same manner as the so-called adults who attempt similar deceptions.
If a ten year old took something from a shop we would not expect them to face the same punishment as a man of thirty.

Perhaps the problem of walts and trolls should be handled on a case by case basis, let's face it, Tinwalt got away with posting the most foolish babble for far too long before he was binned for non-PC ramblings.

Agreed.

Why make a big deal out of obvious idiots, child or adult?

The members work them out and expose them, so why bother reinforcing their attention-seeking behaviour by issuing infraction points etc?

If they own up and apologise then give them a second chance. That's what an awful lot of adult discipline, as in the courts and with some false veterans' organisations, is about. Confession and redemption. The heart of a lot of religions.

If they're stupid enough to stay around and maintain their lies after being exposed they deserve what they get from other members. Open season.

pdf27
10-15-2007, 12:36 PM
If they're stupid enough to stay around and maintain their lies after being exposed they deserve what they get from other members. Open season.
We'd rather you didn't - it makes moderating this place rather hard work.

Panzerknacker
10-15-2007, 05:55 PM
I ll go with Tankgeezer punishment :rolleyes:

The so called "one chance" is an invitation to behave like an idiot.

Gen. Sandworm
10-15-2007, 06:10 PM
I ll go with Tankgeezer punishment :rolleyes:

The so called "one chance" is an invitation to behave like an idiot.

While I somewhat agree..........more with RS and Cuts thou.

However...our abilities to prove that he/she is challenging at the same time.

Rising Sun*
10-15-2007, 07:45 PM
We'd rather you didn't - it makes moderating this place rather hard work.

As far as I'm aware, the mods didn't interfere in the members dealing with Sgt Dorr.

The responses to him are what I had in mind, exposing him and challenging him, as open season, not pointless abuse or flaming.

Egorka
10-16-2007, 06:41 AM
I think the wannabe "veterans" deserve pity... as they are pitifull ones.

Chevan
10-16-2007, 07:35 AM
I /m not sure about you guys but i was feeling like a fool when the kid Wolfgang Von Gottberg have played as Germans Sniper Vet;)
I have felt the simular as the shock.;)
I suggest to ban a such kids after single warning if they will continite to spread a shit.
And i would like to ask the WW2admin to sit up a NOTICING in the head of forim's page simular like that " "If you will play as Vet - you will ban forever".
That's is my hard position:)


Cheers.

Rising Sun*
10-16-2007, 08:46 AM
Here's another perspective.

One of the things sensible adults do with wayward kids is educate them, with a range of positive and negative approaches.

Just banning some dopey kid who's trying to big note himself will only drive him off to some other forum where he's going to do the same thing, and learn nothing.

We don't send our own kids out into the snow forever more if they lie about their achievements or whatever (tempting though it is :D), so why do it here?

Something came up in the past couple of days that reminded me how I could have got the shit kicked out of me by a bunch of adult blokes in a shearing shed (for those without sheep, a remote all male work camp :D) when I was about sixteen for refusing to join the union that everybody was in, and held dear. I think my exact words, in response to a reasonable request which assumed that I'd be joining the union because that's what everybody did, were "I'm not joining a ****ing union." They worked on me for a while and persuaded me, rationally, rather than just shunning me or making my life a misery, or just flogging me into conformity.

Why not take the same approach here with those who are too young to know better, like I was?

Firefly
10-17-2007, 05:26 AM
Trouble I see is that at 15 you should know better, I am of the firm belief that just because you are young it doesnt give you carte blanche to behave as you like.

Mind you the age of criminal responsibility here was 8 until very recently when it was moved to 12 and so you may very well have been treated as an adult when it comes to the majority of crimes you may have committed.

Rising Sun*
10-17-2007, 07:13 AM
Trouble I see is that at 15 you should know better, I am of the firm belief that just because you are young it doesnt give you carte blanche to behave as you like.

Not suggesting that it does, but the older they are the more many adults tend to think that they were perfect children, and the more they judge children by their current standard as adults rather than the conveniently forgotten standards they operated on as children.

There's a difference between accepting anything a child does and saying that's okay because they're children, which isn't my approach, and viewing it as a childish act judged by whatever age they're at and teaching them why better is expected, which is my approach.

Of course, there comes a time when recalcitrants just need a good kick up the arse now and again to bring them into line.

Rising Sun*
10-17-2007, 07:22 AM
Just a simple example of why 12 or 15 or whatever year old kids big noting themselves about their supposed military experience isn't such a big deal.

How many blokes did you know in your teens, even early to mid twenties in some sad cases, who presented fantasies of sexual experience and or prodigious consumption of grog, or both, to their mates, who were just as full of it.

The problem was that every liar thought the other blokes were telling the truth, so everybody who was getting nothing thought they were missing out because the other liars seemed to be getting it.

Sapper
10-17-2007, 03:37 PM
I say ban them. It is a crime to do such a thing in North America and since this is a military forum, discipline should be exacted on the guilty party.

Nickdfresh
10-18-2007, 03:20 PM
Just a simple example of why 12 or 15 or whatever year old kids big noting themselves about their supposed military experience isn't such a big deal.

How many blokes did you know in your teens, even early to mid twenties in some sad cases, who presented fantasies of sexual experience and or prodigious consumption of grog, or both, to their mates, who were just as full of it.

The problem was that every liar thought the other blokes were telling the truth, so everybody who was getting nothing thought they were missing out because the other liars seemed to be getting it.

I agree. I find it somewhat offensive on some level, but then again they're just kids and should be allowed second chances once they fess up. Besides, I sense certain parties have a bit of fun tripping them up...

It's some of the supposed adults here that write some stupid things that irk me much more...

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
11-13-2007, 07:44 AM
Eh...kid?

heh...Heh heh...

Major Walter Schmidt
02-17-2008, 09:19 AM
People who pose as WWI US vets are a bit unknowligible- there is only one left!:)