PDA

View Full Version : Soviet Aircraft Weapons.



yok
01-10-2007, 04:45 AM
Hello,
I look for Russian photographs of rockets RS82 because i haven't any color of them. Could you help me, please
yok

Panzerknacker
01-10-2007, 05:21 PM
I think there is a site that had color images of that, let me see if I can found it.

Panzerknacker
02-02-2007, 09:03 PM
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7678/rocketslk9.jpg

genkideskan
03-05-2007, 09:35 AM
Hello,

this is in fact a modelers site - but the guys are well informed.

Check the site for more bombs, colors ect.


http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Markings/bombs/vvsord.php

http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Research/Ordnance/Betab/index.php

Best

Panzerknacker
03-05-2007, 05:16 PM
Nice, thanks for the link and welcome.

Panzerknacker
09-25-2007, 06:33 PM
Shkas 7,62mm MG.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/9497/sk1yj0.jpg

The ShKAS (Shpitalny-Komaritski Aviatsionny Skorostrelnij, Shpitalny-Komaritski rapid fire machine gun for aircraft;) is a 7.62 mm machine gun widely used by Soviet aircraft in the 1930s and during World War II. It was designed by Boris Shpitalniy and Irinarkh Komaritsky and entered production in 1934. ShKAS was used in the majority of Soviet fighters and bombers and served as the basis for the ShVAK cannon.


ShKAS is a gas-operated machine gun. The high rate of fire is achieved thanks to the revolving 10-chamber drum fed by metal disintegrating link ammunition belt and the recoiling portion of the gun weighing only 921 grams.

The weapon first appeared as protitype in 1933 know as KM-33.

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5052/km33dh9.jpg

Initial production consisted of cable-charged wing-mounted and turret-mounted ShKAS with a synchronized version entering service in 1936.

http://i5.tinypic.com/4ue62dh.jpg

A one-second burst from four ShKAS in Polikarpov I-153 or Polikarpov I-16 placed 120 bullets within 15 angular mils at 400 meters (1,312 feet) giving a firing density of 5 bullets per square meter of the sky. This was significantly higher than contemporary aircraft from other nations, especially considering that four guns with 650 rounds of ammunition per gun weighed a total of only 160 kg (350 lb).

Two remote controlled ShKas at the rear of Il-2.

http://www.23ag.ru/assets/images/3_9.jpg

Panzerknacker
09-28-2007, 05:49 PM
Characteristics of the Shkas:

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9717/21376788cy9.jpg


Type of action: gas operated, sliding breech (berthier type)

Overall lenght: 810 mm

Barrel lenght: 585 mm

Loaded weight: 11,35 kg.

Grooves: 4, one turn in 254 m, right twist

Charging: By hand

Rate of fire: variable, 1500 to 2000 rpm.

2 Shkas in Mig-3 Nose, the rate of fire of the sinchronizated variant was about 1250rpm. Note the heating jacket to avoid freezing at high altitude.

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2351/gunbayrrj7.jpg



Nose gun in Archangelskij Ar-2 bomber.

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/258/cock3ut5.jpg

Panzerknacker
10-12-2007, 08:07 AM
Ultra ShKas.

As if the Shkas high rate of fire wasnt enough the russian technicians sought the way to increase it even more, probably for use in defensive emplacements.

The outcoming gun was the Ultra Shkas, the rate of fire was considerabely increased due a enlargement is the gas hole dameter.

That gave a tremendous 2700 rpm rate.

In order to withstand the large amout oh heat a heavier thicker barrel was used with a cooling jacket.

http://i19.tinypic.com/4ttzu5j.jpg

However the high rate gave some troubles in feeding and reliability, that caused the Shkas wasnt manufactured and used in large numbers.

The weight of this gun excedees 16 kg.

Panzerknacker
11-01-2007, 06:53 PM
Berezin UB. 12,7mm.

http://i17.tinypic.com/6g4h1ti.jpg


In 1937 M. Y. Berezin began to project powerful 12,7 mm synchronous aircraft machine gun with the cartridge from 12,7-mm of infantry machine gun Degtyarev Shpagin DSHK 38.
During October - December of 1938 synchronous machine gun successfully underwent plant and range tests. On 12 April, 1939, there was soem troop tests 12,7 mm machine gun BS (Berezin synchronous) by the decision of the committee of defense was neglected into the series production. 12,7 mm the machine gun Of berezina on the ring mount VUB-E on the attack aircraft IL-2.

Installation of the machine gun Of berezina on the destroyer Yak-9 The automation of machine gun worked due to the energy of the gases, deviated form a hole in the bore. The bolt performed a wedge locking system. The characteristic property of its device was the supply of ammunition belt not with the recoil of moving elements as in the overwhelming majority of machine guns, but with their counterrecoil, i.e. of the return spring of machine gun.

For guaranteeing the required reliability of belt feed return spring was made multiple-wire. The merits of the Berezin machine gun included:

- The successful layout of entire automatism and separate mechanisms;
- High rate of fire
- Simple loading
- A comparatively small number of components and simple mechanism.

In spite of all its positive qualities, machine gun BS possessed some serious deficiencies. The difficulty of its recharging in air with the aid of the cable system, which required of the pilot of large physical efforts into the most decisive minutes of battle especially was shown; the defects, connected with the insufficient vitality of the separate parts of automation, appeared; they required the elimination of the reason for the appearance of some delays.

Working at further improvement of his system for purposes of the solution of these deficiencies and creation of general-purpose machine gun for its application at the basic weapon emplacements of all machine guns, M. ye. berezin developed general-purpose machine gun UB (universal Berezina) in three versions depending on site of installation - turret, wing and synchronous.

UBT
UBK
UBS

http://i19.tinypic.com/4pkee4w.jpg

Basic details and mechanisms of all three versions of machine gun were preserved, with exception of the trigger and percussion devices, into which were introduced some changes, connected with the specific character of their application.

In the synchronous (UBS) and wing (UBK) versions was realized remote control of the system of recharge in the case of the appearance of delays in the shooting in air with the use of the compressed air.

This was the first in the Soviet aviation system of the pneumatic recharging of machine gun, which considerably facilitated its operation in field conditions. In connection with the impossibility to use pneumatic recharge on the turret machine gun (UBT) because of the overall sizes of cab, designer G. I. Nikitin developed for it retracting handle lever type. In the course of tests the machine gun UB smoothly worked at the 9000 in altitude height and, it continued to shoot in the steep turns, the chandelles, the loops, the barrels and the dive.

Weight of the machine gun UB in the synchronous version 21,45 kg, wing 21,14 kg, turret 21,43 kg.
Rate of fire in the synchronous version 700 - 800 vystr./min, wing and turret 900-1050 vystr./min. Fire unit and ballistics are identical to 12,7- mm by machine gun SHVAK. From 7 January through 22 February 1941, the machine gun Berezin successfully underwent troop tests.

UBT, Ilyushin il-2
http://www.23ag.ru/assets/images/4_12.jpg

On 22 April, 1941, the general-purpose machine gun Of berezina was accepted to the armament VVS. 12,7- mm machine gun UB ripened in time, since the war begun in two months revealed the ineffectiveness of 7.62-mm aircraft machine guns with the aerial gunnery. The production of machine guns UB was conducted on Tula weapons and Izhevsk the Machine Building Plants. In 1941 were released 6300 machine guns UB, in 1943 43690, in 1944 38340, 42952 in the year 1945.
The synchronous machine gun of berezina was used on the fighters I -15, I -153BS, Yak-1b, Yak-3, Yak-7b, Yak-9, MiG-3 and LaGG-3. The turret machine gun was established on the bombers SB, P -2, Yer-2, Il-2, Tu-2, Il-4 and Pe -8.

UBS in Yak-9 .

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3695/6agpvrrsv9.jpg

Panzerknacker
12-01-2007, 06:41 PM
I am looking info and some pictures of this aviation bomb, if somebody have...please

pdf27
12-01-2007, 08:00 PM
http://npaid.websys.no/item3/1171733987/Photo%20023.jpg

Amrit
12-02-2007, 09:40 AM
PTAB is a generic name - was there a particular one that you want? The WW2 one?

Here are some examples:

https://naveodtechdiv.jeodnet.mil/AfghanOIG/PDF-low/02-Dispenser.pdf

Panzerknacker
12-03-2007, 05:38 PM
(http://npaid.websys.no/item3/1171733987/Photo%20023.jpg)http://npaid.websys.no/item3/1171733987/Photo%20023.jpg
(http://npaid.websys.no/item3/1171733987/Photo%20023.jpg)

Thanks.

And yes is the ww2 device in wich I am interested, the one used by the Il-2 assaulter.

genkideskan
12-06-2007, 10:05 AM
I only know the AO type made from extra mortar rounds - I will ask for the

PTAB and container.

genkideskan
12-06-2007, 04:39 PM
Here are some drawings

Panzerknacker
12-06-2007, 05:38 PM
Thanks Lothar, I knew you going to have some :D

genkideskan
12-07-2007, 08:04 AM
By the nice cooperation with Jhonni, Moskau, Russia :mrgreen:

genkideskan
12-10-2007, 09:02 AM
Here is a colored sectioned drawing :-)

Panzerknacker
12-10-2007, 02:50 PM
Nice, the "1" is definately the shaped charge warhead. ;)

Thanks again Lothar.

Egorka
12-11-2007, 04:17 PM
In the post #6 the bombs 1 and 4 are prototypes. The 2 and 3 are the ones used in battles.

Panzerknacker
12-11-2007, 08:10 PM
Ok. thanks :), the russians seems to call this bombs "acumulative effect weapon"

Egorka
12-12-2007, 01:56 AM
Yes, kind of. "Cumulative charge" where the armor whould be penetrated by "cumulative stream" caused by the shape of the explosive warhead.
A "Shaped charge" in English.

genkideskan
12-12-2007, 10:51 AM
Hello here is a PTAB container. May be Egorka couldt help with a closer translation :-) The aircraft is an YAK-9.

Protivo Tankowye Avia Bomby = PTAB

Anti Tank Aerial Bomb

Egorka
12-12-2007, 04:16 PM
Hello here is a PTAB container. May be Egorka couldt help with a closer translation :-) The aircraft is an YAK-9.

Protivo Tankowye Avia Bomby = PTAB

Anti Tank Aerial Bomb

Photo #1: The typical situation with PTAB 2,5-1,5 bombs "hanging" while used in the configuration with experimental container on YAK-9 (photo from the archive of the Yakovlev construction beuro).

Photo#2: Shown the insertion process of the PTAB 2,5-1,5 antitank bombs into the container for small caliber bombs on Yak-9 (photo from the archive of the Yakovlev construction beuro).

genkideskan
12-12-2007, 05:07 PM
Thanks :-)

Egorka
12-13-2007, 02:39 AM
Thanks :-)

Mate, what about this one?
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=113959&postcount=13

genkideskan
12-19-2007, 03:28 AM
Here are some nice break down pics of an dig out Shkas.
A friend in the north of Moscow dig out a Yak fighter. The guns are in
nice condition but the barrels are bend a little bit.
Nice detail studies. It is interesting that the belt run in a "cage" and the cartridges where pulled to the rear out of the belt.
It is a fixed gun so no grip or shoulder stock.

genkideskan
12-19-2007, 12:12 PM
Here is a supplement .... a picture Ive forgotten and a translation of the polish PTAB index . :mrgreen::mrgreen:

1. Shaped charge liner.
2. HE charge.
3. Bomb body.
4. Fragmentation jacket
5. Booster.
6. Primer.
7. Inertial weight with firing pin.
8. Inertial weight spring.
9. AD-A fuze.
10. Arming propeller.
11. Stabilizer.

Panzerknacker
12-19-2007, 06:29 PM
Here are some nice break down pics of an dig out Shkas.


Nice find !, what a good luck for them that could find things like this with a shovel. ;)

genkideskan
12-22-2007, 03:12 PM
Russian bombs - a PTAB . left

Panzerknacker
06-26-2008, 07:33 PM
ShVak heavy MG 12,7mm.

The early years of 1930s were characterized by the great qualitative jump in the development of the military aviation. It substantially increased the speed, weight and payload, thus also the resistance of combat aircrafts.

In connection with this the 9 of February of 1931 the Soviet High Command decided that was needed a new machine gun caliber 12,7mm to combat against the recent generation of fighters and bombers. Responding to this requirement it is born the ShVak, Shpitalny Vladimirov Aviatsionny Krupnokalibr, Aeronautic Weapon of Shpitalny and Vladimirov heavy caliber.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3844/127mmshvakpi2.jpg

The prototype of the machine gun was finished in Tula the 28th May 1932.

The principle of the operation by means of gas energy with a piston operating the opening of the sliding bolt. It was basically an enlarged Shkas.
Length of the gun was 1246 millimeters , it had 8 grooves right twist, overall lenght 1726 millimeters.
Rate of fire a 820-850 rpm. It was proposed to be adopted in three versions, wing, sinchro and turret emplacements.
In 1932 - 1933 the machine gun underwent tests and in 1934 of I declare apt to enter in good condition. Nevertheless the enthusiasm of the BBS with the new weapon was shot lived.

The ShVak of 12,7mm showed a series of disadvantages such as:

- Excessively high Number of mechanical failures, not only that but also sometimes to clear a jam in the weapon has to be completely disarmed in its feeding mechanism and/or including the conductive drum of the cartridge belt… wich obviously a task impossible to perform in actual combat.

- Excessive number of mechanized pieces, the number of component was greater due to the modifications realised by Vladimirov to the Shkas to accept the larger caliber case.

- Expensive Construction, for the same reasons above.

- Non standard Ammunition, the worsest from the Soviet point of view.

The Shvak did not use the conventional ammunition of 12.7 but one specially designed 12,7mm x 108R, the R obvious indicates the presence of a rim, this was necessary since the system of Shpitalny did not adapt to the cartridges with extraction groove. (rimless case)
All these reasons caused that its fabrication was very limited. In the year of 1934 only 12 issues were constructed and 86 the following year, finally it was decided to give up with this weapon in favour of a heavier 20mm variant.

The standardized weapon of aviation in caliber the 12.7 shall be the Universaly Berezin that used the cartridge DShk 1934. The production of of Shvak 12.7 mm finalize definitively in 1936.

Chevan
06-27-2008, 01:38 AM
The production of of Shvak 12.7 mm finalize definitively in 1936.
Actually the effective age of 12.7 mm mashin guns have soon finished.
It has been excenged by the new sort of fighter wearpon - aviation 20-mm gun ShVAK.
The previously designed 12.7 ShVAK mashing gun has a such great store of reliablility , that it lets to increase the caliber up to 20 mm without serious modernization of mechanisms.
The main replacement was the new barrel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ShVAK_cannon
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Shvak1.jpg


The ShVAK 20 mm autocannon is a large-caliber version of the 12.7 mm ShKAS machine gun. The machine gun entered production in 1934 but proved unreliable, difficult to manufacture, and prone to jamming which often required partial or complete disassembly of the weapon. Its production was stopped in 1936. The autocannon version differed only in larger caliber of the barrel. It is a gas-operated belt-fed weapon with either cable or pneumatic charging in remote applications. ShVAK ammunition consisted of a mix of fragmentation-incendiary and armor piercing-incendiary rounds. The damaging effect of this ammunition was considered weak for the caliber. As the result, towards the end of Great Patriotic War ShVAK was supplanted by the Berezin B-20, Volkov-Yartsev VYa-23, and Nudelman-Suranov NS-37 autocannons.
It was the first soviet autocannon that was widely installed almost at the all kind of soviet fighters.Jak,La,Mig.it was most famouse and mass prodused soviet autocannon - more then 100 000 of gun have been produce sine the 1942 till the 1946
Although the damage effect was relatively weak for 20-mm shel, the the latest ShVAK modification was enough good to use for soviet pilots.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Shvak_bf109.jpg
The wing of Bf-109 hit by burst of the SvVAK gun.
The time of ShVAk has ended when the Germans started to produse the newest kind of fighters FW-190D5 and Bf-109K in the 1944.
The SOviet pilots needed the new kind of autocannon.

Chevan
06-27-2008, 01:52 AM
The one of such new gun was the Beresin B-20, excellent gun that has been admitted at production in mid 1944.
http://www.airpages.ru/gun/b20.gif

Ammunition: 20 x 99 mm (0.8 x 3.9 in)
Empty weight: 25 kg (55 lb)
Muzzle velocity: 750-770 m/s (2,460-2,525 ft/s)
Rate of fire: 800 rounds/min
Mass of one-second burst: 0.95 kg (2.1 lb)


The B-20 was created by M.E. Berezin in 1944 by chambering his Berezin UB 12.7 mm machine gun for the 20 mm rounds used by the ShVAK cannon. No other changes were made to the weapon which was pneumatically or mechanically charged and was available in both synchronized and unsynchronized versions. In 1946, an electrically-fired version was created for the turrets of the Tupolev Tu-4 bomber until the Nudelman-Rikhter NR-23 cannon became available. The B-20 was a welcome replacement for the ShVAK because is was significantly lighter (25 kg (55 lb) vs ShVAK's 40 kg (80 lb)) without sacrificing rate of fire or muzzle velocity.

The B-20 was much more effetive , beeing installed to the La-7, in fight against the last germans fighters.
The modification of La-7 with 3 B-20 is the my favorite soviet fighter in my combat simulator IL-2. This is astually the uber-fighter on the low/medium altitude
P.S. PZ, can you change the title of this thread - i don't know the country URSS:)

Panzerknacker
06-27-2008, 08:20 AM
P.S. PZ, can you change the title of this thread - i don't know the country URSS


Well is the Union Republicas Socialistas Sovieticas, I made a mistake and put the title with initials of the spanish designation for the Soviet union, sorry I am no more moderator ( :rolleyes:....:roll: ) so other should do it.


Actually the effective age of 12.7 mm mashin guns have soon finished.
It has been excenged by the new sort of fighter wearpon - aviation 20-mm gun ShVAK.


Yea, I know, but the VV-S gave up 12,7 mm variant in 1936, some were put in the Polikarpov I-16.

Panzerknacker
06-28-2008, 09:31 AM
Ammunition for ShVak 12,7 mm.

http://www.23ag.ru/assets/images/127x108r.jpg

Two pictures of the 12,7x108 rimmed cartrigde, the armor piercing tracer) BZT projectile had a muzzle speed of 825 m/s, it could pierce 13mm homogeneous steel plate at 350 meters.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1179/127x108mmrho7.jpg

The endurance of tracer element was 3 seconds, enough for 1500-1600
meters.

Panzerknacker
07-02-2008, 08:23 PM
12,7x108 mm for Universaly Berezina:

The design of this ammunition was strongly was influenced by the german antitank Mauser cartrigde 13x92sr and the USA .50BMG (12,7x99mm) nevertheless it was designed to be more powerful that its predecessors.
Incidentally this ammunition was used also in some experimental antitank rifles, but in 1940 that task was taken by the bigger and meaner 14,5x114mm cartrigde.

B-30: Armor-piercing steel core, Projectile weight 51.9 grams, initial speed 810-825 M/s.

T-38: Ordinary ( ball) tracer (green), Projectile weight 43.5 grams, initial speed 840-860

http://img498.imageshack.us/img498/285/p127d10fq.jpg

B-32: Armor-piercing incendiary, weight 48.2 grams, initial speed 810-825 M/s.

BZT-44: Armor Piercing-incendiary-tracer with steel core, weight 43.7 grams, initial speed 840-860 M/S.

BZF-46: Armor-piercing incendiary of white phosphorus, weight 47.0 grams, initial speed 810-825 M/s.

MD-46: Explosive, weight 41.0 grams 840-860M/s: filled with 2,4 grams of penthrite.

There was also an "improved armor piercing" , but it seems that this ammunition was destined to the land based DShK heavy machine guns and no to the UB.

BZ-41 API: Armor-piercing, core of tugsten, weight 53.8 grams, initial speed 815 M/s.

Squematic cut 12,7 mm x 108 ammo, left to righ, AP-T, API, and two types HE, with and without fuze.
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3093/127x108qi6.jpg

Panzerknacker
07-04-2008, 08:41 AM
Shvak 20 mm.

The second attemp of Shpitalny & Vladimirov to produce a "krupnokalibr" ( large caliber) variant of the Shkas was by far more sucessful.

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/9096/10863338pr8.jpg

The steps to follow were not very complicated since the new gun shared several pieces with the previous and failed 12,7 mm model.
The chambers was modified to accept a projectile of completely straight case and the corresponding rim.

The ShVak 20 was fed by desintegrable metalic belt and revolving drum, it was operated by gases taken by a port amid barrel.

2 times of the cycle of feeding.

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/9313/shvak1yc4.jpg

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/3961/shvak2pg2.jpg

Finally the round in position, when the trigger is depressed the bolt will advance and introduce it in the chamber firing the cartrigde.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7688/cortepq0.jpg

squematics from:

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/8910/fuenters0.jpg

Ignition of the cartrigdes was percussion. An improvement introduced in this caliber was that small porcentanje of the gas taking was bleeding towards a a grooves in the chamber, this provide some " flotacion" to the used case taking off it of the walls easing the extraction thus increasing the gun reliability.

It was first tested in 1936 in a experimental variant on the Polikarpov I-16 designated I-16P (P = Puschka = cannon)
The Shvak was accepted for service in 1938 in good condition and his first actions battle took place in 1939 against Japanese aviation in the border dispute of Mongolia. It proved to be very effective against the agile but slightly constructed Ki-27 JAAF Fighters.

Panzerknacker
07-06-2008, 10:49 AM
ShVak 20 mm (II)

The Shvak also was adapted for the use in armored vehicles, the TNSh weapon (Tankovy Nudelman Shpitalny) that it was used in the light tank T-60 . It was basically a fixed ShVak in armored turret emplacement.

http://i24.tinypic.com/2vt1wk1.gif

About 34601 were manufactured in 1942, in 1943 some 26499, 25633 in 1944 and 13450 in 1945, the production stop with a series of 750 units manufactured in 1946. This gun use in several types of fighter , I-16, yak-1, Yak-3, Yak-9. Lagg-3, La- 5, La-7, etc.

Also a pair was put into some Hurricanes of " Lend and lease". As defensive armament settled in the Tupolev Tu-2, Petlyakov Pe-8 and the Yermolayev Ye-2.

Characteristics:

Caliber: 20x 99R

Cycle of operation: Gas operated, sliding bolt.

Length overall: Wing mounted 1679mm, variant for turret 1726 mm, Engine 2120 mm.

Rate of fire: 740-760 per minute (wing and turret) 610-615 dpm, synchronous variant.

Weight: 40 kg (wing) 42 kg (turret) 44.5 kg (engine)

Shvak in experimental fighter I-180.

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/9074/i18501mx3.jpg

Polikarpov I-16 Type 24.

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8051/i162zb8.jpg

Underbelly pod in Pe-2Sh, note duct curved below the gun wich is the spent case chute.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3531/shvak20pe3zr3.jpg

Chevan
07-07-2008, 02:56 PM
...., sorry I am no more moderator ( :rolleyes:....:roll: )
How , so you can't bann me any more:):rolleyes:?



Yea, I know, but the VV-S gave up 12,7 mm variant in 1936, some were put in the Polikarpov I-16.

Actually the 12,7 mm mashin guns have been used further ,till the 1944.
For instance the most mass soviet fighter Jak was armed by the 1x20 mm gun Shvak and 1x12,7 mm mashine-gun UBS ( not shvak).
The Jaks carryed the mahin gun till the most end of war,
Bu for instance the second soviet mass fighter- La had no mashine gun at all.
And i have to say - it was right decigion.
As i remember the soviet ace Ivan Kojedub wrote in their memoursm that in the soem of soviet air-regiments some of the mechanic removed the mashin-gun from Jak fighters at all- this don't decrease the firepower too much , but at the same time made the fighter lighter. The additional lifting weight can bee used fro fuel or simply increase the manevreability of fighter.
BTW excellent photos of mechanism above, thank you..

Panzerknacker
07-07-2008, 06:19 PM
How , so you can't bann me any more


Unfortunately I cant. If not I would made a good cleaning here...not just you, but I going for Firefly job right now, that is Chief mod, below chief mod nothing.



Actually the 12,7 mm mashin guns have been used further ,till the 1944.



Jawhol, until the end of the war but that is the Berezin 12,7 machinegun not the Shvak 12,7 mg.



BTW excellent photos of mechanism above, thank you..


You are welcome.

Panzerknacker
07-09-2008, 08:28 PM
3 more images; engine installatioon of the ShVak between the "V" of V-12 Klimov engine ( copy of Hispano Suiza Y-12), note the emergency charge wire handle in the aft position.

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/302/vk105pf8rl5.jpg

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6181/vk105pf1rr3.jpg


Needless to say: to manually charge this weapon required a lot of effort from part of the pilot. :rolleyes:

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/9797/shvak2zi1.jpg

Panzerknacker
07-10-2008, 08:39 AM
20 x 99 R ammo for ShVak:

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/1188/shvakammond9.jpg

The cartrigde case design for this weapon is somewhat archaic, it looks like a oversized revolver ammunition.
James N Chinn is his study stated it was derivated from an ancient 25mm Gatling manually operated machinegun round. However the most likely is its was developed straightening the bottlenecked 12,7 Shvak case.

The muzzle velocity is slightly bigger than the Mauser MG 151/20 but the german gun could fire heavier projectiles.

OZ: Incendiary-explosive, weight projectile 96 grams, initial speed 770m/s

OZT: similar to the previous one but with tracer.

OF: explosive of fragmentation, weight projectile 91 grams, V0 785 m/s

OFZ: Explosive of fragmentation with incendiary element.

BZ: armor-piercing, steel hardened core with 2.5 grams of incendiary component , weight 96 grams, V0 750 meters by seg. Penetration 24 mm at 100 meters normal plate.

BZT: similar to the previous one but with tracer in the base.

Feeding the TNSh in T-60 tank.

http://i23.tinypic.com/29zqyk8.jpg

20 x 99mm belt for Il-2 sturmovik.

http://i20.tinypic.com/k4edqv.jpg

According to russian sources the TNsh tank gun could also fire a tugsten carbide core ammunition, that could penetrate the side armor in Panzer III & IV up to 350 meters.

Panzerknacker
07-10-2008, 06:00 PM
Taubin MP-6

At the end of 1939 the VVS High Command was already thinking about a caliber weapon superior to the ShVak. In January of 1940 the task to design the design the new 23 mm gun was given to to technical office OBK-16 lead by Y. Taubin and M. Baburin .

The gun was long recoil operated and was feed by a complex magazine of 60 rounds wich combined 10 clips of 6 cartrigdes.
As result given the long and intermitent mechanical movement added to the long travel of the bolt in each firing the MP-6 had low rate of fire, about 300 dpm. Soviet Air Force was not satisfied with this figure so the VVS ordered the OKb-16 to increase the rate of fire.

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4321/mig1mp6jx7.jpg

The russian technicians adapted an "accelerator", mechanical device wich increased the velocity of the bolt thus increasing the rate of fire. With this modification the MP-6 could reach 500 rounds per minute.
The first prototypes of the MP-6 were tested in imported Me-110 from Germany (two cannons in the nose) and in the Mig-1 prototipe, (between the V of the Mikulin engine)

The Mp-6 also was placed in a pairs in the wing of a single place Il-2 and tested in conjunction with the later Volkov-Yartsev of equal caliber, the results were conclusive, the production of the MP-6 I conclude in April of 1941 with less than 100 examples constructed… the VYa was completely superior.

Panzerknacker
07-13-2008, 09:50 AM
Taubin PTB-23.

This was a variant designed for improve the armament of the T-60 and T-70 light tank, the designation goes for Protivotankoboe Taubin Barubin, antitank of Taubin and Barubin.

The gun was fully automatic and used the lower 300 rpm rate of fire. It was loaded by 9 shots clips introduce manually by the gunner.

Again the PTB-23 was not a suitable design, the clip was usually caught by the ejector and the yun jammed a lot.
In those stalinist times failure was a costly option and certainly that is the case in this weapon, Taubin and Barubin were arrested and later shot by the NKVD.

Taubin 37 mm, a mistery:

The only mention of this gun appeared in the book "Soviet X- Planes" by Gunston/Yefim Gordon.
According to that a Taubin 37 mm with 81 rounds was put into the Gudkov Gu-1 a design based in the P-39 airacobra. The emplacement was in the nose like the way the P-39 had its Colt M4 gun.
For several reason I think this is a mistake and probably Gordon mixed up with the 23 mm variant.

For example:
A) I dont think you can put 81 rounds of 37 mm catrigdes in the fuselage of a fighter, as comparative the P-39 have 32 and that round had a smaller size than the russian ammunition.
B) Executed Taubin and liquidated his design team is very unlikely that he had time to develop a 37 variant of his failed gun.
C) If something is valued in russian armaments is reliability, I dont believe the VVs would continue to use a weapon that has proven unreliable
already.

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/3174/gu1pu4.jpg

Whatever be the case the fact is the Gu-1 didnt survive too much, the first and only prototipe crashed in his first flight in June 1942, killing the Pilot P. Nikishin.

Panzerknacker
07-18-2008, 10:10 PM
Volkov Yartsev VYa-23

http://i21.tinypic.com/117gspx.jpg

June 22th, 1941, 4:30 am, the most efficient Army in the World attacked Soviet Russia. Wave after wave of german armored vehicles penetrated the border defenses and knifed deeply in the Russian motherland.
Despite some local victories by T-34s and KV-1 the nazi advance seems unstoppable.

The VV-S quickly realized that the Shvak 20 mm gun was only adecuate to fend off light armored tanks and halftracks like the Pz II or Sd.Kfz 250. However the 20mm bullet did not penetrate the main tanks Panzer III and IV except by chance.

Given the failure of the Taubin guns they had not an adecuate anti-armor airborne gun. The VYa-23 wich was in development shortly before the german onslaught was quickly put in service.

The design began in june 1940 after the armament branch of the VV-S asigned TSKB-14 ( office for armament design 14) F.N Volkov and Boris Yartsev the task to adaptation the basic Berezin UB heavy MG mechanish to the new 23 mm round just developed for the Taubin MP-6 gun.

F.N Volkov.

http://i22.tinypic.com/2s1x3kk.jpg

In april 1941 the prototipes of both design were tested in attack and fighter aircrafts, the Volkov-Yartsev was by far more reliable thus entering in large scale production in June 1941. Two weapons were experimentally put into a Lagg-3 but the VVS devoted almost the entire production to the IL-2M and IL-2M3 attack aircrafts.

IL-2M installation.

http://i20.tinypic.com/j5blav.jpg

http://i24.tinypic.com/xbeio7.jpg

http://i23.tinypic.com/efqrft.jpg

The normal supply was 175 rounds, reduced to 150 rounds in the single place heavy fighter Il-2I.

The VYa-23 was gas operated, desintegrable belt feed and pneumatically charged. The rate of fire was variable adjusting the gas passage between 540 to 700 rpm. Usually the cannon was set in 560-570 rpm to ensure reliability.

More than 64500 examples were manufactured between 1942 and 1947 in the State factories Nº 6 and Nº 66.

VYa-23 characteristics.

Caliber: 23x152 belted.

Rate of fire: no less than 540 rpm.

Overall Lenght: 2147 mm

Barrel lenght: 1640 mm

Grooves: 10 right twist.

Muzzle velocity: 880 to 910 m/s.

Width: 160 mm

Height: 193 mm

Weight unloaded: 66 kilos.

Panzerknacker
07-21-2008, 07:16 PM
A well known photo of Il-2m, in this we can aprecciate the huge muzzle blast in the VYa-23.

http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/RAM/il-2-11.jpg

Double VYa emplacement, used in the prototype of attack aircraft Tomashevich Pegasus.

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/6077/podve8.jpg

Panzerknacker
07-22-2008, 09:23 PM
23x152 ammunition.

Two types manufactured, a few without belt for the Taubin guns and the belted variant for the VYa-23.

3 projectiles manufactured, exercise, armor piercing and high explosive.
The AP shell weights 210 grams and the HE 196 grams. Muzzle velocity 885and 900 meters per sec, wich allowed a very flat vbullet trajectory. The tracer element in HE bullet glow until 1500 meters.

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7296/2nlxx92lh9.jpg

The BZ ( antiarmor) projectile could penetrate 40 mm rolled homogeneous armor at 300 meters, meaning it could go trough the side armor of german medium and light tanks easily.

http://www.23ag.ru/assets/images/zvyaap.jpg

Penetration of VYa-23 in side turret Pz 38 t ausf E ( 20 mm armor)

http://www.23ag.ru/assets/images/14.jpg

Panzerknacker
07-25-2008, 05:04 PM
Shpitalny Sh-37

While perfecting the ShVaK the designed Boris Shpitalny worked also in a 37 mm gun with the collaboration of the OBK-15 bureau.The large caliber weapon was a response to a requeriment of the army for a weapon capable to destroy the main tanks of the of the enemy ( the other more lightly armed aircraft like the Polikarpov Ivanov and Ilyushin Il-2 would deal with the infantry, lorries and support vehicles)That a requeriment sighseeingt the need of a heavy caliber airborne weapon was proposed in a date as early as 1936 is a real achievement for the soviets.

The Sh-37 is 3,7 meters long and weights 315 kg, is a gas operated with sliding breech automatic cannon.The first Sh-37 was ready in 1938 emplaced in the heavy attack Polikarpovs VIT-1 (Vozdushnyj Istrebitel Tankov = frontline antitank fighter) and VIT-2. Two cannons were installed in the wingroots of the VIT-1 feeded by a non linked 60 round magazine.

Polikarpov VIT-1

http://i37.tinypic.com/x6smq.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/28qyk3c.jpg


The 1940 VIT-2 have a single Sh-37 in a underbelly pod feed by a 70 round magazine.The accuracy of those shooting at ground targets is recorded as very good, however both aircrafts were overloaded and had bad handling characteristics ( the VIT-1 was recorded as dangerous when a Sh-37 jammed and the other fired giving a notable yaw) None managed to enter in service.

SS Ouche-Vittes
07-25-2008, 05:34 PM
anyone have pictures of the soviet ground attack plane that has like 40 PPSHHs in the belly?

Sergej
07-25-2008, 06:41 PM
88 PPShs with 71 mags in Tu-2Sh
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/4346/011a4f3f27b544xlso4.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/7968/011a50571ddf00xldo5.jpg

ww2admin
07-26-2008, 09:34 AM
Are you kidding me?! Holy cow!

Major Walter Schmidt
07-26-2008, 10:02 AM
Do they use it fo anti-infantry?

Sergej
07-26-2008, 10:28 AM
The name of the system was "Fire Hegdehog". It was plan to use this against infantry but I don't know about any use in war.

flamethrowerguy
07-26-2008, 06:19 PM
Looking at the "Fire hedgehog" it's clear the russians certainly had no supply problems. I bet this thing killed troopers by the falling bullet casing also.

Sergej
07-26-2008, 06:31 PM
In fact that isn't so much ammo. 6248 rounds of 7.62x25, The Bf110 had 4000 of 7.92x57 and other. There just some more guns.

flamethrowerguy
07-26-2008, 06:44 PM
In fact that isn't so much ammo. 6248 rounds of 7.62x25, The Bf110 had 4000 of 7.92x57 and other. There just some more guns.

That's what I meant in the first place: the mass of guns. Knowing the lack of submashine guns in the Wehrmacht as an example...

Panzerknacker
07-27-2008, 09:53 AM
In way is similar to the 6 barrel MG-81 container used by the Ju-87 but obviously with more guns.:rolleyes:

Shpitalny ShFK-37.

A redesign of the Sh-37 with shorter barrel and modified to save weight.
In that way the mass was reduced to 302 and the lenght to 3,1 m. The new weapons was designed SFK-37.

At the end of december 1942 the VV-s high command decide to munt a pair of the heavy caliber Shpitalny SH-37 guns in the IL-2 fon combat test against armor.


http://www.23ag.ru/assets/images/4_18.jpg

The ninth Il-2 with the guns SHFK-E ( Shpitalny large caliber gun, wing mounting) arrived in the regiment only of on 18 January, 1943, and in the troop tests the participation did not assume. Attack aircraft Il-2 with the guns SHFK-E participated in the war with the air regiment wbetween 27th december 1942 to 23th january 1943 in the outskirts of Stalingrad and took part in the defeat of the 6th german army.

Task for manufacturing this aircraft Of s.V.Ilyushin obtained in march 1941, however, in connection with the strong overloading OF OKB by works on the series Il-2 AM-38 the defects of gun SHFK-E", which were appeared in the course of operation, Il-2, armed by such guns, it was built with plant № 18 only toward the end of June 1941, and all necessary flight tests of attack aircraft were carry out 8 July.

The large overall dimensions of guns SHFK-E and magazine feeding (magazine capacity of 40 projectiles) determined their arrangement in the fairings under the wing of aircraft Il-2. Because of the installation on the gun of its large store it was necessary to reinforce the lower structure of the wing which not only complicated the construction of fastening gun to the wing (gun it were fastened to the shock absorber and with the shooting it were moved together with the store),

Also it required to make for it fairings bulky with the large cross section. Gun SHFK-E, including store for the cartridges as its component part, in the wing version had 387 components. The weight installation of this 37 mm cannon on the aircraft was 302,5 kg. Besides the guns and the machine guns, into the composition of the armament of attack aircraft entered 8 rocket RS -82 or 200 kg of bombs.

State conducted tests showed that flight-performance data Il-2 with the 37 mm cannons SHFK-E", in comparison with the usual series one-place Il-2 with the guns SHVAK or Vya, were noticeably reduced. The stormovik became more “inert” and more complex in the to maneouver, especially on the turns and the turns at the low altitude. The agility deteriorated at the high speeds. Pilots complained about the significant loads on the controls when turning or yawing.

Nevertheless, the flight-test results of new attack aircraft were acknowledged as a whole satisfactory. With the normal gross weight of 5864 kg the maximum speed in the earth did not exceed 373 km/h, at the height 2400 m of -409 km/h.

It take 2. 12 min to reach 1000 meters height and 5,36 minutes to 2500 m .

The landing speed was slightly increased 146 km/h. Takeoff 515m, path on the landing - 535 m.
Highest velocity in a step dive: 590 km/h . maximum 728 km. Rate of fire SHFK-E according to the data of range tests average was equal to 169 shots per minute with the initial velocity of projectile approximately 894 m/s.

http://i34.tinypic.com/2cgemft.jpg

Nickdfresh
07-27-2008, 03:21 PM
88 PPShs with 71 mags in Tu-2Sh
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/4346/011a4f3f27b544xlso4.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/7968/011a50571ddf00xldo5.jpg

Interesting, but it would seem to be a wholly inefficient waste of both sub-machine-guns and low, slow flying aircraft!

Chevan
07-27-2008, 04:36 PM
Interesting, but it would seem to be a wholly inefficient waste of both sub-machine-guns and low, slow flying aircraft!
It was only single unique Ty-2SH, that was build in 1944, cpecially for purposes of attack of infantry column of retreated germans.
Of cource this was a inefficient waste of PPSh's;)The whole infantry battalion should be disarmed to complect the single such aircraft.
This aircraft has been never used in real battle.

Panzerknacker
07-30-2008, 06:46 PM
SFK-37 in LaGG-3

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/9253/58425172hj5.jpg

In August 1941, three LaGG-3s produced by GAZ-23 in Leningrad were retrofitted with a Boris Shpitalnyy's 37 mm Sh-37 gun with 20 rounds. This weapon was firing through the cylinder banks and the propeller's hub; its barrel protruded from the spinner for about 60% of the spinner length.
The muzzle of the SZF-37 was provided with perforations to act as muzzle brake ( in the same way as the guns used in Il-2m)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/945/52110339ue5.jpg

This aircrafts were named K-37 ( LaGG-3It or LaGG-3 -37 according other sources and immediately sent to the front.
The gross weight of the plane was increased to 3363 kg, and its speed decreased of 5-7 km/h ; the climb rate and ceiling were lower than the standard LaGG-3s of the same series. The handling qualities were preserved due to the installation of automatic slats, as those installed on later versions.

Emplacement between the "V" of the Klimov engine. Note the 22 rounds "horsecollar" magazine.

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/1641/sh37pm9.jpg


Tests demonstrated that the plane was a stable platform of fire, and the gun had a good kill probability against targets at a range of 300-400 m; the gun was intended both for use against enemy bombers and ground targets.
20 LaGG-3s K-37 were built in late 1941, and they were delivered to 42 IAP on the Bryansk front in early 1942. The first combats were successful, and three enemy bombers were destroyed.

However, it was noted that 20 rounds for the gun were an insufficient supply. The pilots had to fire only after having aimed carefully, and only in short burst of 1-2 rounds, both to save ammo and because the recoil forces caused the plane to drop on its nose and to lose the alignment with the target, particularly if the fighter was flying at low speed. Incendiary-explosive shells were used against flying targets, while armor-piercing shells could be used against ground armored targets.

Number "90" was one of the original 20 evaluation machines mounting the Sh-37 gun. It appeared to have survived with the 42 IAP until the winter months of 1942-43.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/4120/lagg337red90gu3.jpg


In September-October 1942, these planes were utilized during the Battle of Stalingrad by the 291 IAP with good success, shooting down 13 enemy bombers; 7 K-37 were lost in combat on that occasion. During their use, they were escorted by Yak fighters. A.Ootin, commander of the 220 Fighter Air Division (IAD) to which the 291 IAP was assigned, was very satisfied with these planes, and wrote that one or two hits in any part of an enemy plane were sufficient to shot it down.

Panzerknacker
08-08-2008, 06:18 PM
Image of the Sh-37 with 40 rounds magazine, this configuration was used in the experimental attack aircraft Tomashevich Pegas.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/821/shpitalnygz7.jpg

Panzerknacker
08-11-2008, 09:12 PM
Nudelman Suranov NS-37.

http://www.23ag.ru/assets/images/NS-37.jpg

After the dismissal and later "liquidation" of Taubin and his design team the VV-S appointed other technicians for the development of new weapons in the OKB-16 armament office.
In may 1941 the army High command submitted a requeriment for a series of large caliber weapons capable to defeat armor as well to be used against bombers.
In July 1941 the engineers team with Viktor Nudelman and Vladimir Suranov as chief designers showed the result of its effort, the gun prototype was firstly named "OKB-16-37" In march 1942 the cannon was first tested in a LaGG-3 and after exhaustive testing ( if something you cant blame the russian is not testing his guns until they feel those are reliable) entered in service with Yak-9ts in march 1943 and april 1943 in the Kalinin Front. More than 8000 Ns-37 were completed by the factory Nº 76 in Ishev.

Description:

The NS-37 is a disintegrable metallic belt feed, full automatic, pneumatically triggered, air cooled cannon, the automatism work with the short recoil and rotating bolt head principle.
After the shot barrel and bolt recoil together 35 mm, then a cam milled in the received open the bolt wich turned 90º to extract the used round. The returing mechanish is actuated by a powerful spring and a hydro-pneumatical cilinder above the bolt s head. The buttplate is equipped with 2 concentrical spring to act as buffer ( the recoil forces in the NS-37 exceed 2800 kg)
The bolt shape and mechanism is very much like the Mauser MG 151.

NS-37, left side view:

Panzerknacker
08-18-2008, 06:48 PM
Characteristics NS-37

Type of action: Short recoil, belt feed.

Overrall lenght: 3400 mm

Barrel lenght: 2400 mm

Width: 241 mm

Weight unloaded: 161 kg

Rate of fire: 240-260 rpm

Muzzle velocity: 850 to 890 m/s.

In Yak and Lagg fighters:

First batch of LaGG-3s with NS-37 with provition for 30 rounds were delivered on December 1942, and were known also as LaGG-3-37 (series 34, according to other sources); they looked as the well-known series 35, but were distinguishable for the long protruding barrel. The only reconigzable item is the lack of muzzle brake used in Shpitalny guns.
The yak-9T had a NS-37 with 32 round emplaced between its V-12 engine. According to the pilots recollections the aim with this guns was true only in the frist two shots, the following would eventually fly over the target.

Yak-9Ts were mostly used as normal fighter engaging bomber and other fighter despite the potential armor killing capabilities. Other favorite target of russian pilot were german barges and fast attack boats in the Black sea.

The faster Yak-3 was also attempted as big gun fighter but despite the installation of a muzzle brake recoil forces of NS 37 were too much for the light aircraft, only 2 Yak-3T were completed.

Provition for the gun was limited to 25 cartrigdes in the Yak-3T.

Yak-9T

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7683/yaklhe8.jpg


Captured, pictured in the facilities of DVL

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2181/54267017bv8.jpg


Detail of the 37 mm ammo belt next to the 12,7 mm UBS belt.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9461/23657391hc8.jpg


Yak-3T

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fww2/yak3t/yak3t-1.jpg


LaGG-3-37 (NS gun)

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/lagg3-37/37arr.jpg

Panzerknacker
08-25-2008, 07:26 PM
NS-37 in Il-2 Sturmovik.

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/8828/il22rv5.jpg

As the main "strafer" and anti-armor aircraft of the Voyenno-Vozdushnyye Sily the mitic Ilyushin Sturmovik was an obvious choice as NS-37 gun carrier.

The geared final transmition of the Mikulin engine wasnt suitable for gun mounting so the most logic step was emplaced a pair under the wings. The NS Il-2 was tested in late 1942 next to an SFK-37 armed Il-2. The OBK-16 weapon had several advantages over the Shpitalny design like a faster rate of fire, light weitgh and better adaptability of his feed system ( belt feed instead magazine feed)

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4879/481qr8.jpg

The Ns-37 was installed in a streamlined bulge under each wing with provition for 45 round per gun.

Performances of the aircraft was indeed affected, the take -off lenght was increased in 10 % and the maximum speed reduced in 25 km/h.

The Il-2m armed in that way was first manufactured as series aircraft in march 1943 and entered in service inmediatly. However as in the case with SFK gun this kind of installation was not completely satisfactory.

Panzerknacker
08-27-2008, 07:24 PM
Acuraccy & terminal ballistic of NS-37

http://i7.tinypic.com/72acxlv.jpg

In early 1943 a series of test in the firing range were carried out to find out the true effect of the NS-37 (that in the paper was very promising) against the Panzer formations.

The armor breaking capabilities of the API ammunition were good enough, for example the sides of the Panzer III and Panzer IV were cleanly penetrated at 400 meters with good fragmentation effect inside the vehicle.

It only inconvenience was the numbers were not completely satisfactory as far as precision goes. Nevertheless it must be pointed that this inaccuracy was due factors non related directly to the design of the weapon but to the power of its cartridge and the types of assemblies and sights.

The Yakovlev and Lavochkin fighter were really light aircrafts compared with "western " designs and is already remarkable that the russian could put a gun of this heavy caliber in it design... not to mention made them work with acceptable a reliability.

In the Ilyushin strafer the problem was worst. Despite the high numbers of tanks claimed as destroyed with this weapon system the same VV-S reckoned its deffects. Compared with the german counterpart, the Ju-87G, the russian aircraft lacked the sofisticated hydro-pneunatic dampening rail used in the german 3,7 Flak 18 gun. Also the all metal, high G designed wings in the Stuka were by far more robust than the sturmovik ones.

In order to prove the aim with the 2 types of assemblies (engine and wing) firing to captured panzers took place from distance of 400 and 300 meters to the one of recovery (this is the minimal distance in which the airplane rises pulling up in order not to hit the ground)
Using a quite conventional tactic to attack in a shallow dive the following results were obtained:

LaGG-3: 5 impacts of an average of 35 shots fired.

Il-2M with NS-37: 3 impacts of average 50-60 shot projectiles.

The low percentage of impacts was caused by:

A) The strong recoil of the weapon curved the wings of the Il-2 distorting its flight path and increasing the dispersion of the burst.

B) The need to set the convergence of the weapons and to harmonizing its sequence of shot.

C) Lack of suitable sights, in fact majority of the Il-2 of the period had not a reflecting sight but a "ring and bead" device, completely inadequate for the shot at medium/long distance.

The airplane saw a limited use in Battle de Kursk . Later was diverted to the Air fleet of the Black Sea. Strafing fast attack boats and transport vessels were by far more easy than hit tank sized targets.

Penetration in gun cover Panzer III ( 35 mm).

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6572/421ef3.jpg

Penetration in side armor Pz III ( 30 mm)

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8397/419eb7.jpg

Two close impacts of high explosive shells caused the armor breackage in this Pz II ausf F ( 18 mm)

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7852/420xr3.jpg

The VVS acknowledged the good typical characteristics of the weapon but it was really disappointed with the performance on his main attack airplane, to the contrary the production of single-engine fighters with heavy arms continued until the end of the war with more of of 3000 Yak-9T/K constructed.

In order to increase the antitank power of the Sturmovik several types of rockets and specialized bombs with shaped charge explosives like the PTAB were introduced.
Firing with HE shells to german bombers was also tested, the results were very good in that aspect, a single shot was enough to ensure destruction of a Ju-87 sized target. Two shots were enough against medium bombers like the Ju-88 and He-111.

A single shot of HE ammo caused the complete destruction of rear fuselage in this Ju-87D.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3091/ns37rezhz0.jpg

Panzerknacker
08-31-2008, 08:35 PM
37x195 mm ammunition.

The powerful cartrigdes used in the NS 37 were a long streamlined beltless botlenecked design.

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/5160/pns37cy4.jpg

The two basic types of projectiles were:
OFZ, High Explosive Incendiary, weight 735 grams, muzzle speed 890 mps.
BT, Armor piercing with tracer, 753 grams. Ballistic cap, without any kind of incendiary or explosive filling. Muzzle velocity 870 m/s.

Penetration 48 mm high strenght steel at 300 meters ( 20 º angle)

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4007/nssswb9.jpg

Panzerknacker
09-04-2008, 06:40 PM
Nudelman Suranov NS 45.

The introduction by the german army of a completely new generation of heavily armored vehicles in 1943 like the Pz V Panther, Ferdinad and Brummbär caused serious concerns among the VVS high command.
There were fears that the standar barrel armament would not be powerful enough to fend off this menace.

In order to cope with this the gifted technicians of the OKB-16 were again put in charge of the development of the heavy caliber weapon, this time the cannon would be able to shoot the 45 mm round of the infantry M1932 AT gun. The NS 45 was (unsurprisingly) a scaled up variant of the NS 37.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1301/ns45du2.jpg

In december 1943 the first prototype was ready for testing. The static shooting quickly demonstrated the power of the new gun...in both ends. A maximum recoil force of 3900 kg with a duration of 0.03 secs was noted.

Such figures recomended the installation of a muzzle brake wich teorically reduced 50 % of the backwards energy ( in practice wasnt in that way)
The gun is short recoil operated and belt feed, weights unloaded 153 kg and the rate of fire is 250 rpm.
Muzzle velocity about 700-710 m/s.

Installation on Yak fighters.

The first aircraft to use this weapon was the Yak-9K, installation of this massive weapon inside the small fighter wasnt free of troubles. Nose of the aircraft had to to be enlarged 25 centimeters. The bore of the proppeller hub in the Klimov VK-105PF has to be increased in 20 mm, that left a very thin space in the cilinders inner walls.

It also affected the flying characteristics of the otherwise nimble fighter, for example the rate of climb slowed down in 20 %. The maximum speed was reduced to 560 km/h. Shooting the NS 45 was no recomended below 360 km/h and it was stricltly forbidden below 300 km/h because the risk of stalling the aircraft. Maneouvrability was hampered too.

Despite the troubles the VVS considered the YAK-9K a "tactical fighter" wich would be used mostly against tanks, locomotives and boats so the lack of performance wasnt really important. Fighter cover of standar armed Yaks were provided for the "Ks" everytime possible. Yak-9k entered in service in march 1944 armed with the NS 45 with 29 rounds belt and one UBS with 200 rounds belt.

Panzerknacker
09-06-2008, 05:58 PM
Yakovlev Yak-9 Krupnocalibr, 274th Fighter air Regiment, Belarus, July 1944.

Panzerknacker
09-11-2008, 08:18 AM
Installation on Yak fighters ( part II)

The usual manner of attack against ground targets was the conventional shallow dive tactic, with angles not exceeding 20º and at speed over 500 km/h. Within this parameter the NS 45 gave relative good results, its only inconvenience was the short burst, because the gun was restricted to 2 shot or even single ones per each pass ( wich clearly denied the advantages of a fully automatic weapon)... longer burst would cause the shot flew over the target.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8017/ns45pf1.jpg

In mid and late 1944 another problem was experienced in Yak-9k units. The continued use of the gun caused the Klimov engine to suffer oil and water leaks. The reason behind that was discovered as the vibration caused by the gun wich made cracks on the alluminun alloy cilinders banks. Those craks pronlonganted affecting the oil pipeline and coolants tanks causing engine overheating and general failure.

Heavy recoil !!! fracture of Klimov VK-105 engine bank caused by the backward force of the NS 45.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3954/motorqs4.jpg

Inconveniences like that caused that the production of the K variant was deleted, with only 60 aircraft delivered.
The gun needed a bigger and heavier platform.

Panzerknacker
09-12-2008, 06:01 PM
NS 45 in attackers.

In erly 1944 the NS 45 was also proposed as the armament of heavy "shturmoviks". One was the long range, heavily armed Sukhoi Su-8.
Sukhoi's Su-8 emerged as the most powerful, most heavily armed, and best protected attack aircraft of the war. The designers set out to build the smallest airframe that could carry the requisite fuel and two of the most powerful engines available, Shvetsov ASh-71F 18-cylinder air-cooled radials each offering 2100 hp.

Sukhoi Su-8

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/6180/78529814cs9.jpg

The narrow forward fuselage housed the pilot, a large fuel tank, and the radio operator/air gunner in a fully structural armored shell up to 15-mm thick. Extensive bullet-proof glazing in the canopy and lower nose gave the pilot a good view for this type of aircraft.

Twin fins and rudders provided redundancy in the event of damage and gave the air gunner a better field of fire above and to the rear.
Defensive armament consisted of a 12.7-mm Beresin machine gun flexibly mounted in the rear cockpit (or in a small power-driven turret, according to some sources) and a 7.62-mm ShKAS machine gun firing from a ventral position.

This aircraft carried no more and no less than 4 x NS 45 in a belly pod, each gun with 50 rounds, also it had 10 machineguns in wings (shkas) and a heavy armor for pilot and gunner.

Squematic showing underbelly emplacement in Su-8

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8530/nnnnnag3.png

The Su-8 was a very promising aircraft but also very expensive. No wonder why the VVS prefered the Il-10 instead.

A Tupolev Tu-2 was tested with twin NS-35 inslallation angled donwards in the bomb bay, This variant named properly Tu-2SH did make it into production.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2686/ns45yj0.jpg

Also a special Il-2M3 with all metal wing was equipped with twin wing pods for the Ns-45, each gun had provition for 40 rounds. Problems with recoil forces ( again) and the end of the war stopped more development of this variant.

Panzerknacker
09-17-2008, 06:11 PM
45x185mm amunition:

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/2674/zns45sh9.jpg

It was obtained modifiying the NS 37 ammo case to accept the 45 mm antitank round.
Weight of the projectile 1150 grams (HE) and 1300 grams ( armor piercing) muzzle velocity 710-720 m/s.

AP shell could penetrate 58 mm of rolled homogeneous armor at 300 m in a 20º angle. ( data from Yak-9k attacking in a dive at 480 km/s)

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2657/cartuchosue7.jpg

navyson
09-17-2008, 06:27 PM
Sorry I have no info to add PK (if I may call you that). Just wanted you to know that I find your posts most interesting. (you've been the only one posting on here recently).

Panzerknacker
09-17-2008, 07:08 PM
Thank you. Is a detailed and complete topic as you might see.



if I may call you that


Panzer sounds better. :cool:

Panzerknacker
09-21-2008, 10:37 AM
Nudelman Suranov NS-23.

1944 design. In order to replace the VYa 23 gun in the new generation of fighters and shturmoviks, the main objetive in the NS 23 was to increase the rate of fire and to made a gun compatible with synchronization devices.
Nudelman & Suranov adapted their short recoil operation to the new shorter cartrigde giving a increased ciclic rate of fire between 600-650 rpm.

A total control of the firing pin during automatism allowed the cannon to be coupled with interruption gears in single engine fighters.
Its only disandvantage was the reduce muzzle velocity compared with the earlier 23 mm model, however as the NS 23 was not proposed as anti-armor weapon this was felt irrelevant by the VVS. ( as I said before the antitank work was taken in late war by specialized bombs and rockets)

http://i38.tinypic.com/25guxhh.jpg

NS 23 compared with the shorter Shvak.

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6688/ns2323mmaircraftcannon0vy3.jpg

4 x NS 23 in wings, Ilyushin Il-10

http://i36.tinypic.com/2chajur.jpg

The NS 23 was adapted by several late war and post war aircraft such as: MiG-9, Yakovlev Yak-7U, Yak-9U, Yak-15, Yak-17, and Yak-23 Il-10, Il-18, Il-20 ( fixed) Lavochkin La-9 and La-11 ( synchro) and defensive in Ilyushin Il-22.
The manufacturing of NS 23 ended in 1950.

Il-22 rear emplacement.

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2117/montajecolasz2.jpg

NS-23 characteristics:

Action: short recoil rotating bolt head. Counterrecoil by helicoidal spring and Hydropneumatic cilinder.

Charging: pneumatical

Lenght: 2230 mm

Weight: 37 kg

Rate of fire: 600-650 ( 500 rpm in La-9 and La-11)

Muzzle velocity: 685-710 m/s

3 x NS 23 in the nose (lavochkin La-9)

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fww2/la9/la9-4.jpg

Panzerknacker
09-26-2008, 09:41 AM
Aditional info on NS 45.

Interestingly enough there was also a Yak-3 variant wich used the 45mm gun, the Yak-3K, the russian sourse in very laconic about its destiny "...was not in series production".

Probably suffered the same structural and recoil troubles of its NS 45 armed bigger brother.

http://i35.tinypic.com/122go46.jpg

Panzerknacker
11-05-2008, 03:44 PM
Recoiless cannons.

There was several entusiast of the recoiless gun in the USSR as early as 1918. The major exponent in the period of time we are interested was L.V Kurchesvskiy, engineer who designed several types with calibres varying between 45 up to 152mm

The principle was invented by the Colonel Davies of the US navy in 1916. Using the actioan and reaction principle the gun need to launch a counterweigh with the same mass and speed to eliminate the recoil.

The RG weapons had the advantage to use a large caliber tube thus a large caliber shell wich could be fired from a relatively small aircraft.
It disavantage is that even today is difficult to obtain a reliable working automatic mechanism.



APK-4 in caliber 76 mm.

This was originally designed in 1929 but manufacturing of the weapon did not commenced until 1931. it was a very sophisticated and ambitious recoiless cannon. The gun was a repeater actuated by compressed air wich moved the magazine and dropped a reload into the chamber. Total capacity were one shot ready to fire plus 6 reloads.

http://i38.tinypic.com/289lkye.jpg

The ammunition was comprised of a semicombustible cloth case with a counterweight in the base. Propellant weight was 600 grams. Projectile weight was 4,1 kg, muzzle speed 350 m/s.

Teorically the counterecoil effect was achieved by launching part of the cloth case along its counterweight. However in static and dinamic test part of the cloth was stuck in the chamber or the ejection nozzles so the gun wasnt entirely recoiless. Further development created the variants APK-4bis and APK-4m, wich tried to solve reliability problems, however those affected the APK guns during its entire career, the main source being the repeating mechanism. A variant with a 20 round drum magazine was projected in 1933 but never constructed.

Manufacturing of the variants APK-4, APK-4bis and APK-4m ended in 1935 and APK-4m with some 110 guns completed. It was tested in the Tupolev ANT-23 and Grigorovich I-Zs.

Panzerknacker
11-26-2008, 04:04 PM
The Yak-9B light bomber dropping the PTAB.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1415/57771158yt7.jpg

Uyraell
02-16-2009, 03:38 AM
Very damned interesting series of threads, Panzerknacker, this and the German aircraft armaments one.
I have thoroughly enjoyed both. It is a pity most of My collection of relevant books was lost.
Technical question though: The ShVak cannon in 20 mm, with the penetration power of the 37mm incorporating the sub-calibre slug. Was that cannon ever actually used in an aircraft? Only sources I have seen are unconfirmed.

Regards, Uyraell.