Rank and Unit question [Archive]

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Swanbourne1989

09-01-2007, 01:12 AM

Hi everyone, I'm new to these forums but have been browsing for a while

I've recently come back from a trip to Germany and my Oma gave me some pictures of my Opa in World War 2.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Yanny_89/Picture.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Yanny_89/Picture001.jpg

I was wondering what Rank and Unit that is, the Unit number is partly obscured.

If its any help, he fought in Finland.

Thanks in advance.

Rising Sun*

09-01-2007, 06:21 AM

Welcome, Swanbourne 1989.

I can't help you with your question, but I've got one for you.

Given your forum name, were you with the regiment at Swanbourne, W.A., or did you try out for it in 1989?

Swanbourne1989

09-01-2007, 06:33 AM

Nope i live in Swanbourne :) and i'm 18 years old :) haha.

Rising Sun*

09-01-2007, 06:36 AM

Nope i live in Swanbourne :) and i'm 18 years old :) haha.

Let's keep that our little secret. Everyone else will think you're SAS. :D

Rising Sun*

09-01-2007, 06:40 AM

P.S.

The odds are that there will be someone on this forum who can answer your question.

If you don't get a response in the next couple of days, try it in The German Military section.

Good luck with your research. :D

ww2admin

09-01-2007, 09:36 PM

Nice pics! I don't know enough, but hopefully someone will help you soon:)

I am developing a better system that will make it easier for all of us to "solve the mystery". Almost done....

George Eller

09-02-2007, 01:30 PM

Hi everyone, I'm new to these forums but have been browsing for a while

I've recently come back from a trip to Germany and my Oma gave me some pictures of my Opa in World War 2.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Yanny_89/Picture.jpg

I was wondering what Rank and Unit that is, the Unit number is partly obscured.

If its any help, he fought in Finland.

Thanks in advance.

Welcome Swanbourne,

I am not an expert on WWII German uniforms, but think I can identify your Opa's uniforms.
The first picture is the uniform of an Arbeitsmann (Worker/Private) of the R.A.D. or Reichsarbeitsdienst (Reich Labour Service). Notice that the cap badge has a swastika within a spade pointed upward between two crossed stylised heads of grain. The shoulder patch shows the Gruppe (Group) Number at top and Abteilung (Detachment) Number at bottom. The collar patch shows that he had the rank of Arbeitsmann (Worker = Private) when the photo was taken. Next rank up would be Vormann (Foreman) followed by Obervormann, Truppefuhrer, Obertruppefuhrer, Unterfeldmeister (equivalent to Second Lieutenant), Feldmeister, Oberfeldmeister and Oberstfeldmeister.

The second picture of your Opa shows him in the uniform of the German Wehrmacht. He has the rank of Lance-Corporal and the patch on his right sleeve shows the "edelweiss" emblem of the Gebirgsjager (mountain troops). The metalic edelweiss badge is also barely visible on the left side of his cap.
SEE ALSO:
German Gebirgsjager (Mountain troops)
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=95321&postcount=12
edelweiss
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edelweiss

Below are scans from Illustrated World War II Encyclopedia, Lt. Col. Eddy Bauer and Brigadier Peter Young, DSO, MC, MA, H.S. Stuttman Inc. Publishers, 1978, Volume 23, pp 3137,3207-3213, showing passages from the Nazi Party Handbook translated into English. I selected the parts dealing with the R.A.D. or Reichsarbeitsdienst (Reich Labour Service).

Hope this helps.

-

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4247/arbeitsmann01ql2.jpg

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3748/arbeitsmann02vn1.jpg

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3807/arbeitsmann08xu2.jpg

(CONTINUED BELOW)

-

George Eller

09-02-2007, 01:31 PM

-

(CONTINUED FROM ABOVE)

From Illustrated World War II Encyclopedia, Lt. Col. Eddy Bauer and Brigadier Peter Young, DSO, MC, MA, H.S. Stuttman Inc. Publishers, 1978, Volume 23, pp 3137,3207-3213, showing passages from the Nazi Party Handbook translated into English. I selected the parts dealing with the R.A.D. or Reichsarbeitsdienst (Reich Labour Service).

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5918/arbeitsmann03pp1.jpg

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5194/arbeitsmann04gn9.jpg

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3664/arbeitsmann05xv8.jpg

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/7176/arbeitsmann06sl6.jpg

-

Swanbourne1989

09-02-2007, 03:53 PM

Wow thanks alot for that, bloody brilliant. Never would of thought he was in the labor service.

Heres a couple more pics of him.

On right
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Yanny_89/Picture002.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Yanny_89/Picture003.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Yanny_89/Picture004.jpg

On left.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Yanny_89/Picture005.jpg

Swanbourne1989

09-02-2007, 03:55 PM

Oh and i think he was awarded this for being shot through the lungs. Maybe the equivalent to a Purple Heart ?

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Yanny_89/P1010165.jpg

George Eller

09-03-2007, 05:20 AM

Wow thanks alot for that, bloody brilliant. Never would of thought he was in the labor service.

Heres a couple more pics of him.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Yanny_89/Picture003.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Yanny_89/Picture004.jpg

-

You're most welcome Swanbourne,

These are great pics. They confirm what I stated in my earlier post that your Opa also served in the Gebirgsjager (mountain troops) of the German Wehrmacht. In the pics above you can clearly see the metalic "edelweiss" badge on the left side of his cap. Notice also his boots. He is holding an MG-34 machine gun.

As I mentioned in my earlier post:

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Yanny_89/Picture001.jpg

The second picture of your Opa shows him in the uniform of the German Wehrmacht. He has the rank of Lance-Corporal and the patch on his right sleeve shows the "edelweiss" emblem of the Gebirgsjager (mountain troops). The metalic edelweiss badge is also barely visible on the left side of his cap.
SEE ALSO:
German Gebirgsjager (Mountain troops)
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=95321&postcount=12
edelweiss
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edelweiss

-
-

The 2nd and 3rd Gebirgsdivisionen (Mountain divisions) were assigned to the northern (Finnish) front.

Also, some articles on the Gebirgsjäger and their operations in Finland:

Gebirgsjäger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gebirgsj%C3%A4ger

Operation Silver Fox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Silver_Fox

Operation Platinum Fox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Platinum_Fox

Operation Arctic Fox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Arctic_Fox

-

Regarding your Opa's medal for being wounded (shot through lungs) - it appears to be an Iron Cross Second Class.

QUOTE from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_cross

The standard 1939 Iron Cross was issued in the following two grades:

Iron Cross 2nd Class (Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse)
Iron Cross 1st Class (Eisernes Kreuz 1. Klasse)
The Iron Cross was awarded for bravery in battle as well as other military contributions in a battlefield environment.

The Iron Cross 2nd Class came with a ribbon and was worn in one of three different methods:

From the second button of the tunic.
When in formal dress, the entire cross was worn mounted alone or as part of a medal bar.
For everyday wear, only the ribbon was worn from the second hole in the tunic button.

The Iron Cross First Class was a pin-on medal with no ribbon and was worn centered on a uniform breast pocket, either on dress uniforms or everyday outfit. It was a progressive award, with second class having to be earned before the first class and so on for the higher degrees.

It is estimated that some five million Second Class Iron Crosses were awarded in the Second World War, and 730,000 in the First Class. Two Iron Cross First Class recipients were women, one of whom was test pilot Hanna Reitsch. Two Jewish officers of the Finnish army and one female Lotta Svärd member were awarded Iron Crosses, but they would not accept them."

SEE ALSO:

The Iron Cross
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/iron_cross/ironcrossmain.htm
Iron Cross 2nd Class
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/iron_cross/2nd_1st_class/2nd_class/ironcross_2.htm
Iron Cross 1st Class
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/iron_cross/2nd_1st_class/1st_class/ironcross1.htm

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Thanks for posting these very interesting pics.

-

WaffenSS

06-12-2008, 10:17 PM

you must be proud of your opa getting wounded and fighting for his country and all

flamethrowerguy

07-16-2008, 09:23 PM

Oh and i think he was awarded this for being shot through the lungs. Maybe the equivalent to a Purple Heart ?

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Yanny_89/P1010165.jpg

No, it's the Iron Cross 2nd Class. It was awarded for bravery. There was a special wounded badge (black, silver, gold) as a counterpart of the Purple Heart.

Major Walter Schmidt

07-16-2008, 09:35 PM

Wow thanks alot for that, bloody brilliant. Never would of thought he was in the labor service.

Heres a couple more pics of him.

On right
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Yanny_89/Picture002.jpg

On left.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Yanny_89/Picture005.jpg

nice Stuka Zu Fuss (Stuka on foot) stuka here means a rocket launched rtillery.
http://www.europe-miniatures.com/tamiya/tamiya-35151.jpg

flamethrowerguy

07-16-2008, 10:09 PM

Beautiful photos, this means the war photos and the model kit.
These are very good pictures of the "schwere Wurfgerät 40 (Holz)" that was produced until 1942 before it was replaced by steel crates instead of the wooden ones. You can see on the rocket it's a "28-cm-Wurf-Körper-Spreng", it's written on the top of it, there was also a 32cm-version (filled with high flammable oil).

imi

07-25-2008, 12:44 PM

flamethrowerguy

07-25-2008, 03:40 PM

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/album.php?albumid=11&pictureid=123
Hi!
Please help if you can:any idea what is that armband on the soldiers?
I know the quality is very poor,but if anybody can please help!
Thanx!

Maybe some of those voluntary helper (HiWi=Hilfswilliger) armbands:
http://www.lakesidetrader.com/pics/ab-132d.jpg
http://www.lakesidetrader.com/pics/ab-187d.jpg

imi

07-26-2008, 08:11 AM

flame:thanx brother,I think the first was the perfect!

flamethrowerguy

07-26-2008, 01:15 PM

flame:thanx brother,I think the first was the perfect!

You're welcome anytime, bro.

Vlaams-Legioen

07-31-2008, 10:40 AM

No, they aren't HiWi, why are they wearing a German uniform then? The name "HiWi" means Hilfwilliger. Most of the times these were Sovjet civilians who helped the German Forces, the Flemish Legion also recieved help from the HiWi's. These are IMO just normal Red Cross armband.

Kindly Regards
- Bart

www.winter-offensive.be

flamethrowerguy

07-31-2008, 11:28 AM

Vlaams-Legioen

07-31-2008, 11:50 AM

Well, Bart, I definitely do not see a Red Cross on the armbands. Also the soldiers are carrying rifles, totally uncommon for medics. Hiwis (hilfswillige) mostly have been ex-Red Army soldiers, not so much civilians. There was no special order for them what do dress. Some had their old russian uniform, some wore civilian clothes, some had Wehrmacht uniforms with armbands or modified wehrmacht uniforms. Look here for a picture of ukrainian hiwis:
http://axis.ssgalicia.info/hiwis.html#view

They aren't in action so they may carry a weapon. Besides that Medic Companies had MG companies also.. These are German soldiers (-Foreign) totally no HiWi's. Just look to the under left soldier, you'll see something like a Red Cross.

flamethrowerguy

07-31-2008, 02:34 PM

Vlaams-Legioen

07-31-2008, 03:12 PM

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/albu...&pictureid=123
Please watch the link to Imi's caption of the picture. Like Imi, the guys on the photo are hungarian, not germans. Medics did bear pistols yes, but an MG company of medics???? Kinda paradox!

No, MG companies in Medical Compagny or regiment or how you say it. As far as I know Medics may carry weapons only not in combat otherwise they'll be seen as soldiers not as doctors (except for a pistol). That's why America forbid their soldiers to bear pistols and other weapons.

flamethrowerguy

07-31-2008, 08:42 PM

The biggest medical unit was the Sanitätsabteilung (~ battalion strength) assigned to a whole army. This "Sanitätsabteilungen" contained two motorized companies and six mobile army surgical hospitals.
I never heard or read about those MG companies assigned. Do you have a source?

imi

08-02-2008, 06:49 AM

Flame,they are german soldiers!
They coming from the eastern front,to Hungary,to my grandfather neighbourhood,at the war