Infantry Flamethrowers

[Flammpanzer]

It really never was a important weapon in the german arsenal, there was better ones.

but it was produced in numbers on special factory-lines. regarding fire-weapons in an anti-tank role: as the offensive opportunities vanished during the war for the germans, flamethrowers were occasonally used to fight against tanks. the flammenwerfer 41 was produced in numbers of nearly 80000 and despite some counter-offensive activities (adrennen-offensive f. e.), the close combat anti-tank role was one of the more useful tasks for these weapons in the latter phase of the war for the german side. but I guess also a lot got lost in combat.

this technique came up in WWI and was sometimes effective, but with the mentiones disadvantage of the relatively short range.

the modern german army uses a discardable single shot device that is filled with phosphorous (Handflammpatrone DM34) and can hit tanks up to 80 meters. under very ideal conditions, afv can be knocked out. so the idea of fighting a tank with fire is not too odd.

jens

[Panzerknacker]

Yeap I see some wochenschau footage of a "reenacted " attack agaisnt a french Char B2 bis with the Flammenwerfer 41.


the modern german army uses a discardable single shot device that is filled with phosphorous (Handflammpatrone DM34) and can hit tanks up to 80 meters. under very ideal conditions, afv can be knocked out. so the idea of fighting a tank with fire is not too odd.


And the german Army had something similar back in WW2...the "einstossflamenwerfer 46" or single shot flametrower, it gave a 1 second flame up to 30 meters, it was discardable as the panzerfaust.

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/3374/flame1xm9.jpg


A few of these were used by paratroops in late 1944-45

[Flammpanzer]

A few of these were used by paratroops in late 1944-45

in oct. 1944, 1000 were built, from nov. 1944 to dec. 1944 another 10500 were built. a lot were used in the endkampf in berlin. the waffen-ss tried to built their own version of such a single-shot device, but it only reached planning-level. here another pic from the weapon, that was either called volksflammenwerfer 46 (poeple`s flamethrower) or abwehrflammenwerfer (defensive-flamethrower) 46. the range was even up to 40 meters (Fred Koch: "Flammenwerfer des deutschen Heeres bis 1945"/Waffen-Arsenal, Band 154 - you can find this excellent book/magazine on german ebay quite often, a lot of pics and very good info on all german flame-weapons of WW1 and also WW2)

the modern variant from the bundeswehr does not shoot a single flame-stream like the WW2 thing, it shoots a bag with phosphorous that will explode when hitting a target. but, after 8 seconds of ballistic flight, it discharges in the air and produces a burning "carpet" on the ground.

jens

[Panzerknacker]

Nice information thank Flampanzer :D

the modern variant from the bundeswehr does not shoot a single flame-stream like the WW2 thing, it shoots a bag with phosphorous that will explode when hitting a target. but, after 8 seconds of ballistic flight, it discharges in the air and produces a burning "carpet" on the ground.

Is more related to panzerfaust /panzerschreck then.

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

the modern variant from the bundeswehr does not shoot a single flame-stream like the WW2 thing, it shoots a bag with phosphorous that will explode when hitting a target. but, after 8 seconds of ballistic flight, it discharges in the air and produces a burning "carpet" on the ground.

Oooo...interesting...

So I guess this flamethrower doesn't contain fuel tanks or anything?

[Flammpanzer]

right, it is a tube made of alloy covered with plastic and has a foldable grip. it does not have a flame-oil tank or something, it is just a tube and regarding the whole construction, it is more related to a panzerfaust, right. I will post pics later, if you are interested. I had the opportunity to shoot with one of them but it was "only" a training devise, where the phosphorous is replaced by a load of white powder. the main task is to blend a AFV, but in some cases the phosphorous manages to melt down the rubber under the hatches and then the burnig stuff will come inside the vehicle with effects you can imagine. the idea of this thing is closely related to the volksflammenwefer 46, the man-pack flamethrower was regarded as too dangerous for the carrier, so the bundeswehr dropped this idea early.

jens

[Flammpanzer]

okay, here is a small pic and a german description of the nasty thing.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handflammpatrone

jens

[Panzerknacker]

Look like a sawed shotgun.

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

Sort of looks like somethin' out of a Science Fiction film! Were these ever used on anyone?

[Flammpanzer]

Sort of looks like somethin' out of a Science Fiction film! Were these ever used on anyone?

wolfgang, the bundeswehr has a great lack of combat experience compared to other modern european armies or the us army and I am not sure if they were used in any form of combat, but maybe they came to action in afghanistan with the special forces KSK (kommando spezialkräfte)? most of the devices (live charges and trainig charges) were or are shot at special shooting-ranges here in germany, but only few troops face them during their service (panzergrenadiere, like I was one; jäger or fallschirmjäger).

I find it as an interesting weapon like the old volksflammenwerfer, maybe better suiting than a cumbersome man-pack flamethrower, that always draw all attention and all sort of fire on it.

jens

[Panzerknacker]

Flammenwerfer used as antitank weapon, reenact of an actual use in the battle of Arras 27 may 1940.


http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/8123/lanzallamaspi9.jpg


Pic form : Militaria Magazine.

[Rocketeer]

Wowers, that thing looks cool, and, it fires a stream of flame? Ive learned alot from this topic, thanks guys.

[Panzerknacker]

Flammenwerfer 34

http://www.weltkrieg.ru/images/original/7/694.jpg

Flamethrowers had seen extensive use in WW I. The early models developed between the wars were too heavy to be carried by one man and required teams of two to three men.

The first weapon designed to be a one-man flamethrower was the Flammenwerfer 34 that was introduced into service in late 1934. However, with a total weight of 36kg (other sources: 35.8kg) it was still practically too heavy to be actually used by a single operator. The larger tank contained 11.8 litres of the flaming liquid Flammöl Nr.19, the smaller tank contained the propellant which was pressurized nitrogene. It was produced until 1941 when it was finally replaced by the Flammenwerfer 40 klein that weighed only 21.8 kg. The two tanks now had a round shape and set into each other. The reduction of weight was mainly achieved by reducing the amount of flaming liquid to 7.5 litre



Paratroopers using the Flammenwerfer 34.

http://powstanie-warszawskie-1944.ac.pl/aa5/flam1.jpg


In the USSR.

http://powstanie-warszawskie-1944.ac.pl/aa5/flam2.jpg

[Flammpanzer]

ahhhh, one of my favourite topics - in a "split-thread"!

well, panzerknacker, I normally would not do that, but I have to say that this is not correct:

The first weapon designed to be a one-man flamethrower was the Flammenwerfer 34

the german "kleif" - kleiner flammenwerfer of WW1 was a true single-operator weapon, allthough it was still heavy enough. the first models of WW1 were indeed operated by 2 men, but the last version of the KLEIF was not. it influenced the british ACK PACK very much in design, it nearly looks the same. also the new german "kleiner flammenwerfer" (Kl. Fm. W.) from mid. 1940 looked like the old version of WW1.

jens

[Panzerknacker]

Well...if it need two man to operate wasnt really a single soldier Flammenwerfer or it was ? ;)

Flamm 34.

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/5319/naziflametorch10mt.jpg



Attacking casemate , I am not sure if it is also a 34 model.

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/9710/naziflametorch38dp.jpg

[Flammpanzer]

well, as I said, it was a single-operator weapon. here a war picture (not the best) from the device, it shows clearly that it is used by just one stormtrooper. during the sommeroffensive 1918 flamethowers were widely used in the small attack units.

jens

[Panzerknacker]

Right on. was a sinleg man flame weapon then.

Note this video showing a assault drill on abandoned French bunkers, the Flam 34 used in the head of the advance.

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=hOe6LoNlZVE

[Ardee]

Hello, this is my first post, and I'm hoping somebody here can help me with something for which I've been searching a long time: a scale line drawing of the Flammenwerfer 35, something akin to the images at the link below. A link, scan -- perhaps even something from the German manual -- or book reference would be greatly appreciated!

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/portft/index.html

Incidentally, I would also appreciate a little clarification by someone wiser than myself. In another thread on this forum, and on other sites, I have seen references to a Flammenwerfer 34, a weapon I am ignorant of. Is this just a typo-sort-of-thing, or was there actually a weapon with that designation? I'm familiar with the 35, 41, the Klein 40, and the Einstossflammenwerfer -- but no 34. Yet the "34" reference appears numerous places, on sites in English, French, Russia, and probably more I can't recall just now...can anybody shed some more light on this?

Thanks in advance for what help may come!

[overlord644]

in combat with the flamethrower, i'd use whatever had the thickest tank sides

[Flammpanzer]

the flammenwerfer "34" is the same as the type "35". it is/was also called Tornisterflammenwerfer. in post-war publications the name flammenwerfer 34 often appeared, but it is simply a synonymous for the 35. there is no difference. allthough there are some different variants of the type "35" (f.e. the ignition system), which was first introduced in 1938. it had a load of 11,8 liter flame oil (Flammöl 19), mixed with tar to make it heavier and to achieve a greater fighting-distance. the range was up to 25 meters. later, this type was slowly but steady reinforced by the type 41, from which over 80000 units were built until the end of the war - the highest number of all portable flamethrowers in the war.

jens

[Ardee]

Thank you for the info, Flammpanzer! That clears up a minor mystery for me. I'd still love to see a scale drawing, though, if anybody has one...

[Kampfgruppe Cottrell]

I've hear of the abwehrflammenwerfer but had never seen one before. Great pics and info.

Brian

[genkideskan]

It is a little known fact that the flame oil was poisenous. It was a chemical cocktail, even the plain unburning oil was very uncomfortable on the skin and
the burning oil produce fumes very similar to Lachrematory.
We spend a lot time developing special sorts of flame oils.
A special tactic was to soke the target with some strokes of unignited oil and the send a final burning flame stroke, these produce flame oil vapor wich gave an explosion.

[Kampfgruppe Cottrell]

Anyone by chance have a translation for the disposable flame thrower to English?

Brian

[Flammpanzer]

hey guys and flame-aficiandos!

check out this auction! if I had some money left over, this would give a nice decoration. :D

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=1702744

by the way, he ships worldwide ..... (and: I am not the seller).

jens

[Flammpanzer]

... and, anther nice film I found prowling on youtube. the flamethrowers appear in the mid of the clip and they have nothing to do with the original weapons (just look at the hoses that are pulled behind the stormtrooper), but I think this gives an imagination of how the flamethrowers spread terror in the early stages of war, when the enemy did not much about them. this might explain why the belgians and french did not shoot at once. the germans made a lot of use of their flame-devices (especially during the Sommeroffensive in 1918) and the french also used them in numbers. the british had their experiences after capturing german models but soon dropped the idea of portable ones. they relied on stationary defence-models (compare: Flammenwerfer des deutschen Heeres bis 1945 von Fred Koch).

and, anyway, I think this short film is made well.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY-3BNnbV_o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY-3BNnbV_o)

jens

[Panzerknacker]

Good footage !

Wich is the name of the movie?

[Flammpanzer]

well, I am not sure, but I think it is a short episode from the 80s movies that were called "The Indy Jones Chronicles" or something like that. maybe a more informed user knows something about it.

jens

[Major Walter Schmidt]

Didnt Dragon make an action figure of a flamethrower-guy?

[Moreheaddriller]

now im not sure but were there any jap flametrowers

[Flammpanzer]

yep, there were. they had at least one portable model and also some (few) tanks with flame-projectors. in the beginning of the war, when the offensive was on the schedule, they made use of these weapons, but later on when they almost had a defensive role, these weapons lost their value for them I guess. anyway, I saw some infos on the jap flamethrowers in the smithonian institute in washington and as far as I remember, even the japanese used them until the end of the war - but not in that intensive way the marine corps did.

here is some info on the type 93.

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt/japanese-flamethrower-type-93.html

jens

[Moreheaddriller]

Thanks for the info

[Flammpanzer]

you are welcome! and here, finally, a picture from the japanese flamethrower in action. it is an attack on australian troops in a pillbox. no date.

jens

[Flammpanzer]

and another one showing a waffen-ss-sturmtrupp preparing for an attack. they use a flammenwerfer 35. (maybe in the balkans).

jens

[Flammpanzer]

and at leat a rare photo of a training-ground, probably in northern germany. note the odd sign in the background. the flamethrower is the type "Kleiner verbesserter Flammenwerfer or Flammenwerfer 40" - "Small imporved Flamethrower or Flamethrower 40". it was used in smaller numbers than the other types (34/35 or 41) but still was widespread among the german troops.

jens

[Flammpanzer]

this would also fit in the "funny wehrmacht pic thread" .... :D

jens