Falklands/Malvinas war pictorial. Post yours ¡¡¡.

[Panzerknacker]

Two questions here.

A) Is the HMS Sir Tristam the ship in the foreground ?

B) Why the hell this people is smiling/laughing?


http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8563/nuevaimagen369he.jpg

[Man of Stoat]

Brits can, and will, laugh at anything. This is largely why we don't generally hold long-term grudges.

It is also considered polite to smile when your photograph is being taken!

[mike M.]

......

[Gen. Sandworm]

That looks like VICTORY...and a good reason to smile

Dont know if victory and smiling would be the first thing on my mind after having the crap bombed out of me. Plus if this is the HMS Sir Tristram then you have 50 dead coworkers. At least according to this article http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/8/newsid_2500000/2500607.stm

[BDL]

Dont know if victory and smiling would be the first thing on my mind after having the crap bombed out of me. Plus if this is the HMS Sir Tristram then you have 50 dead coworkers. At least according to this article http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/8/newsid_2500000/2500607.stm

In situations like that, you can laugh or you can break down and cry. Whatever it takes to stop yourself going mad.

[Panzerknacker]

That looks like VICTORY...and a good reason to smile


Hu ?, the ship is not argentine if you mean that.

In situations like that, you can laugh or you can break down and cry. Whatever it takes to stop yourself going mad

That sounds like a more possible explanation.

[mike M.]

.......

[1000ydstare]

The ship in the back is RFA Sir Tristam.

The lads smiling are just enjoying a moment of mirth on board the ship, probably a funny (possibly quite sick, by most of the posters opinions) quip or joke.

Yes, there is a ship in background, where 50 lads have died, but in a war where the casualties came in daily, you either laugh or take yourself somewhere quiet and put a bullet in your head.

British humour is not understood by many, and British forces humour is understood by fewer and is generally very dark.

The men in the picture know, that you can't dwell on the deaths of even close comrades in situations like this. Their ghosts will come knocking soon enough.

[Panzerknacker]

A place strictly for the images of the war, air, sea, land, homefront and everything related.

Please post your picture and dont feel guilty about it. ;)


http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/tstories/slarke/images/falklands.jpg

[Rising Sun*]

I'd like to post a picture of all the men who survived the war and who were honoured by their nations.

But it's not possible as Britain carefully hid the distastefully wounded in all public ceremonies.

Just the same as all countries promise their men a land fit for heroes while the guns are firing, and forget them; their families; and their sacrifices the moment the guns stop firing.

[Panzerknacker]

Well, since nobody want to start i ll give a try:

Mayo square 14.00 Am 2th april 1982.

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1633/plazaac3.jpg

[1000ydstare]

Two questions here.

A) Is the HMS Sir Tristam the ship in the foreground ?

B) Why the hell this people is smiling/laughing?

A) Yes.

B) Unfortunatly there is only one way to understand. YOU yourself have to go through some of worst moments in your life, when your freinds may not come out the other side, and you just let your self go.

As I said above, the ghosts and memories will come back, but for now, it is just pure joy and relief.

Or in this case, they are just blinkering themselves to the horrors of what has happened.

[Rising Sun*]

Why did the "Falklands/Malvinas Pictorial. Post yours iii" thread get inserted at posts 9, 10, and 11 into this thread and this thread, which used to be "Britsh Humour" get retitled "Falklands/Malvinas Pictorial. Post yours iii"?

It's confusing.

[Panzerknacker]

I merged the two topics.

Or in this case, they are just blinkering themselves to the horrors of what has happened.

A strange way, thanks for your answer.


Another view of the Tristam.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6936/01gj8.jpg


( edited to rezise image)

[Panzerknacker]

Back to the UK.

http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/buques/tristam/04.jpg

[1000ydstare]

A strange way, thanks for your answer.

Is there any other way? Probably better to blinker yourself than sit and think "tomorrow we may die in firery hell in side a maze of metal corridors that will fill with with smoke and darkness..... who wants a cup of tea?"

[Panzerknacker]

British prisoners.

http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/2abril/013.jpg



Argentine prisoner ( Marine I think) captured 21th may, handcuffed and blindfolded, nasty.

http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/ejercito/018.jpg

more pics soon.

[Rising Sun*]

Nasty?

Because he's bound and blindfolded?

This is what a real war crime involving a blindfolded POW looks like. Except that moments later this Australian POW, like countless other Australian, American, British and Dutch military and civilian prisoners of the Japanese, was dead, unlike the Argentinian POW who is being shepherded rather than driven to the slaughter.

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/3804/powjd4.jpg

For what it's worth, the British soldier on the left in the picture in the previous post is not holding his weapon to shoot or threaten, but merely to guard, the prisoner.

Unlike the Japanese with the sword about to kill an Australian prisoner with no more ability to protect or defend himself than the Argentinian prisoner who is being treated rather better by his British captors.

[Panzerknacker]

This is what a real war crime involving a blindfolded POW looks like. Except that moments later this Australian POW, like countless other Australian, American, British and Dutch military and civilian prisoners of the Japanese, was dead, unlike the Argentinian POW who is being shepherded rather than driven to the slaughter.


I dont say a crime, I just said nasty.


Galtieri in the islands.

http://i12.tinypic.com/4kn279g.jpg




snowy times.

http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/ejercito/ingles/soldingles.jpg

[1000ydstare]

What was nasty was Argentina embarking upon the path that would lead to war, ie invasion of the Falkland Islands.

If the Argentine Marine POW is like that, there is a reason for it. He not likely to just be a POW that they didn't like the look of, or a lowly conscript. I am guessing he is likely to know the sort of info that the Brits wanted at that time. It is highly likely to be undergoing TQ or Tactical Questioning, which is not a War Crime although it is likely to be a little nasty.

Information gathered this way, may help British soldiers live, and Argentine soldiers too.

Incidently Panzerknacker the pics here....

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Falklands/NP8901.html

Which all show the faces of the Royal Marine POWs and the pictures of them lying face down on the ground, as APCs rumble past, also border on war crimes. POWs should be protected from humiliation.

In the old days this would include things like draging them through a city on a cart for civvies to throw fruit at. Nowadays a commander (of any rank) should consider photos, the internet and television.

Now let's have a quick look at some evidence of other Argentine atrocities which are equal to or greater than the piccy of a blindfolded and bound POW.

Bussers was visibly upset when the former Governor refused to shake his hand. Negotiations proceeded at a very civil level, apart from the interruptions by the anti-British Major Dowling, who later mistreated Cpl. York's section. After talking to Busser, Hunt consulted Norman and Noott and agreed to surrender. At 9.30 am, 149 years of British Colonial rule came to an end, the Falkland Islands were now in Argentinean hands. The Argentine flag was raised over Government House to cheers from the Argentine troops. Hunt was allowed to change into his official ceremonial regalia and was driven to the airport in his official car. (a London taxi) At the airport he was placed aboard an Argentine C130 Hercules and flown to Montevideo and from there he was flown back to London.

No such niceties for the members of NP 8901. The Royal Marines were stripped of their weapons and webbing and forced to lie face down on the ground in front of Government House with their hands behind their heads. They were not physically mistreated by the Argentines, but the humiliation they all felt was terrible. The Argentine press took many photos of the Royal Marines lying face down on the ground with Argentine marines guarding them. The Argentines did not realize it at the time but by taking these photos of the defeated Royal Marines they had just added smoke to the fire that was now burning in the heart of the British public back in Britain. When these photos were later published in newspapers in Britain there was an outcry of support for the British Government to take back the Falkland Islands.

The Royal Marines of NP 8901 and the members of the Island's Defence Force were moved to the playing fields where more pictures were taken. On the picture on the right at least one member of the Defence Force can been seen as well as several Royal Navy personnel. Also, at least three of the sitting men are making rude gestures towards the photographer. The Royal Marines were later marched to the airport and placed on a C130 Hercules heading for Montevideo. As one of the Royal Marines was being marched onto the aircraft he turned to his Argentine guard and said " Don't make yourself too comfy mate, we'll be back ". He wasn't wrong. After returning to the UK and giving much valuable intelligence to the Task Force commanders, Major Norman and his men returned to their Moody Brook barracks 76 days later as part of 42 Cdo RM.

Cpl York and his section of five Marines who were isolated on the western side of the narrows saw from their position that the Argentines were laying an ambush for them. As they had a Gemini hidden on the opposite side of the headland, they decided it was time to make a tactical withdrawal. Loading their kit into the the Gemini, and in order to avoid detection paddled their way to make good their escape. Suddenly round the headland came an Argentine Destroyer at full speed. It quickly spotted them, and in the words of Marine ‘Butch’ Urand ‘I think we did 100 mile per hour!’. And to its everlasting credit the Johnson outboard motor sprang into life, and they made good their escape, first hiding behind a Polish Fishing vessel and then running their Gemini into the shallows out of reach of the Argentines. They lived in caves on diddle-do-berries for three days before their final capture. When taken, the Argentines were a little confused as to what rank three badge Marine Urand was (three Badges being long service stripes) because is chums had nicknamed him ‘The General’. Being older than the rest, The Argentineans decided that discretion was the better part of valour and introduced him to ‘The General’ to the local naval commander, an Argentine Admiral.

Marine Jeffery Urand and the rest of NP8901 were flown to Argentinia, Marine Urand and his little party were kept separately from the remainder and intensively interrogated. Although no physical violence was used, the technique was aggressive and at times threatening. Their heads were shaved and they were kept in solitary confinement, before eventually being sent home. Now back again with the task force, Now suddenly he heard the unforgettable voice of his interrogator again. A officious Argentine captain was addressing a company of forlorn conscripts before dispersal on to the airfield. Marine Urand strolled up behind and tapped the Argentine captain on the shoulder:’ ‘Allo My Darlin’, Fancy us meeting like this again,’ The military police officer paled, Gulped and quickly disappeared into the ever changing throng of POWs

So it would appear that the British weren't the only ones that were committing "war crimes" on POWs.

Keep 'em coming Panzerknacker.

Maybe you can explain the Napalm, made up and ready for use, at Goose Green? Or was that the British's fault?

Or the Mines indescriminatly laid on the islands? Or was that the British fault as well?

I really wouldn't get in to a p1ssing competition on this one mate, because I WILL research everything and bring it to bear.

[Rising Sun*]

I dont say a crime, I just said nasty.


Fair enough.

So, to evaluate just how nasty it was, what happened to the Argentinian in the picture?

Bamboo under the fingernails?

Water torture?

Something akin to the Burma Railway?

Something akin to the Kempei Tai?

Tied to a tree and bayoneted until he died?

Staked out in the burning sun until .... (Nope, it's cold down there and, worse, the Argentinians staked out their own soldiers in the cold. That's nasty!)?

Or just starved and finished the war half his original body weight ... (Inflicted purely by Britain as distinct from similar results inflicted by Argentina's own army, which is nasty!)?


Or did he just have a hood over his head?

Oh, yes. Very nasty.

[Rising Sun*]

British prisoners.


On the nasty scale from 1 to 10, where would you rate (a) a blindfolded and bound POW being taken somewhere and (b) a blindfolded and bound POW about to have his head chopped off?

[Panzerknacker]

Incidently Panzerknacker the pics here....

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Falklands/NP8901.html (http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Falklands/NP8901.html)

Which all show the faces of the Royal Marine POWs and the pictures of them lying face down on the ground, as APCs rumble past, also border on war crimes. POWs should be protected from humiliation.


You mean this ?

http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/2abril/007.jpg



http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/2abril/008.jpg



http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/2abril/010.jpg



http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/2abril/011.jpg


who knows....maybe some officer of the tactical diver unit had lost a contact lens and the brits were helping to found that.


Jokes aside, relax man and post some picture.

[1000ydstare]

I would post the pics but I couldn't get them off the site, that is why I indicated their location instead.

The point I am making, although the soldiers in the pictures aren't being a abused, and could argueably be said to be better treated than the Argie in the blindfold. The Argentines used these pictures as part fo their media offensive.

Which in itself is a bit nasty.

[Rising Sun*]

The point I am making, although the soldiers in the pictures aren't being a abused, and could argueably be said to be better treated than the Argie in the blindfold. The Argentines used these pictures as part fo their media offensive.

I don't have a problem with the photos of the British prisoners in Panzerknacker's last post, or any use of them at the time or since.

Any more than I do with the blindfolded Argentinian or countless other photos of POW's in any other war at or after the point of capture, if they're just routine pictures of the routine consequences of capture.

There is a 'home side' sensitivity at times to such issues.

The deplorably exultant 'Gotcha' headline on the sinking of the Belgrano strikes me as a lot more offensive than a picture of what seems to be a routine manner of dealing with disarmed British prisoners after capture.

My training a dozen or so years before the Falklands War would have had prisoners lying prone with their hands clasped behind their heads (as in one of PK's pix), or sitting cross-legged with their hands clasped behind their heads, after a quick and thorough search which, if resisted, could have resulted in anything up to death.

One can argue that such things offend the laws of war

...prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.
Article 13, Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm

I don't think they offend the laws of war or common sense any more than a picture of someone in handcuffs being escorted into court or a police station in civilian criminal matters.

[1000ydstare]

To be honest rising sun, I feel the same way about the Gotcha and all of the POW pictures.

The Suns headline was a bit insensitive and quite frankly, base. It is to be remembered however, it was actually pulled when the full casualty figures came in. The Belgrano casualty list shocked the British as much as the Argentines, bearing in mind that the Brits had been in combat in NI for years.

The POW pictures, well C'est la guerre. Brit or Argie, even the bit where the Argies treated the stragglers that were caught later maybe a bit rough, but in the context of a war there are no biggies.

What will annoy me, is someone deliberatly posting such pictures in a manner that makes one side or other out to be the bad guy. Especially where the side painted out to be the good guys are responsible for as bad or worse behaviour.

[Lone Ranger]

http://www.redandgreen.co.uk/images/13.jpg

British SBS treating wounded prisoners at Fanning Head San Carlos. When it came to the treatment of wounded men, the British prioritised them according to need rather than nationality.

The conscript prisoners looked absolutely terrified, and apparently believed the stories they had been told by their superiors that the British were rather fond of eating any prisoners that they captured! Even though they had been expertly treated by the SBS medics with battlefield splints and bandages for their bullet wounds, they were still very wary.

My boys and I had but a single purpose: to make sure no wounded marine, paratrooper, guardsman or Gurkha succumbed to his injuries. Nearly 200 enemy wounded were also treated with the same considerations, inspired by the "humanity in victory" that Nelson had prayed for on the morning of his death off Cape Trafalgar.

Dr Rick Jolly OBE

In 1998, while visiting Argentina with HRH The Prince of Wales, he prepared and sent ahead a list of Argentine wounded treated by his team, enquiring as to what happened to them. When the Argentine authorities spoke to their own people and found about the British battlefield care of their wounded, they invited over fifty of them to the ceremony in Buenos Aires - and then appointed him as an Oficial (Officer) in the Orden de Majo (Order of May) in recognition of his humanity.

Rick Jolly is the only man to have been decorated by both sides.

[1000ydstare]

Rick has a book out now, where some of the quotes above come from.

"red and green live machine" the nickname given to the field hospital.

580 British casualties came in, only 3 succombed to their wounds whilst there. 200+ Argentine casualties were also treated.

Included in this was influx of 160 casualties in just 2 hours, from the Welsh Guards and the Bluff Cove/Sir Tristam incident, and the nearly 50 wounded Paras from Goose Green.

[Rising Sun*]

What will annoy me, is someone deliberatly posting such pictures in a manner that makes one side or other out to be the bad guy. Especially where the side painted out to be the good guys are responsible for as bad or worse behaviour.

Agreed.

Plus a picture doesn't necessarily tell us what's really happening, even if it seems to be obvious.

[Panzerknacker]

British SBS treating wounded prisoners at Fanning Head San Carlos. When it came to the treatment of wounded men, the British prioritised them according to need rather than nationality.

Nice picture, that is the spirit, more pictures and less words.



Army chaplain (catholic) on duty.

http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/ejercito/comulgar.jpg



Just arrived troops.

http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/aerptoarg/007.jpg



AFB.

http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/aerptoarg/003.jpg



Splinter damage after the air attacks 1th may.

http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/1mayo/005.jpg

[1000ydstare]

http://www.gregoryferdinandsen.com/EZE2001/EZE_Images/Falklands%20Memorial%20(6).jpg

Looks a bit young doesn't he?

http://www.gregoryferdinandsen.com/EZE2001/EZE_Images/Falklands%20Memorial%20(11).jpg

The memorial of the Argentine dead. So many young lads killed for the governments vain stupidity.

[1000ydstare]

No offence Panzerknacker,

But somehow a memorial that remembers the dead of such a fools errand (from the area of Ushuiai) that also declares there will be a return, somehow doesn't seem right.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/UshuaiaFalklandsWarVictimsMonument.jpg/800px-UshuaiaFalklandsWarVictimsMonument.jpg

http://www.warshipsifr.com/media/canberra_2.jpg

Canberra (the Great White Whale) returns home.

http://www.mjmorgan.dircon.co.uk/support/Spartan's%20Falklands%20Return2-2.jpg

HMS SPartan returns home

[1000ydstare]

http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1982/1101820510_400.jpg
With the 25th anniversary of the Falklands War coming up next month, British security forces on the Falklands are getting ready for any actions taken by Argentines. “The Argentine government is very different from the one in 1982 but is pressing its sovereignty claim and has reduced co-operation,” said Falklands governor Alan Huckle on recent rhetoric from the Kirchner administration.

Interesting point, as well as the SLR (British) and FN FAL (Argentine) being the same (except the Argentine weapon was able to go Auto by switch, than by modification with a match stick). Both sides used the GPMG, another FN product. British tracer was red and the ammo was 4:1, 4 ball to 1 tracer. Argentine tracer was green, and 1:1:1 or 1 ball, 1 AP and 1 tracer.

No too long in to the war, this became irrelevant as the British used Argentine ammuntion that they had captured.

Probably by men such as these.

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/726F7643-4F17-4BB6-8CCB-8E17F5636E27/0/FKD002028.jpg

Men of the Support Coy, 45 Cdo, Yomping to Port Stanley with the Union Flag high on the whip antenna of a PRC-350.

One of the most famous images of the War.

And here is another famous image, and controversal.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/falklands/images/jollyroger.jpg

HMS Conqueror returning to Scotland, with a Jolly Roger flying to indicate a successful cruise (ie the sinking of ARA General Belgrano).

Some people, including British people, thought it a bit off. Actually it is a tradition taht dates back to the very earliest submarine actions in the Royal Navy. So the PC Brigade can do one.

She also could have had a broom to indicate a "clean sweep", every target engaged sunk. But for what ever reason, she did not fly a broom.

[Panzerknacker]

Nice but the monument are post 1982.

Landing.

http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/ejercito/ingles/densembarco-pow.JPG



Gurkhas

http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/ejercito/ingles/falklands0142dq.jpg




Gurkhas ?


http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/ejercito/ingles/falklands0121vs.jpg

[1000ydstare]

Gurkhas?

Nope, they are Brits. At a guess I would suggest they are Scots Guards. Purely because they are equipped with civie bergans. 3 Cdo Bde (with 2 and 3 Para) didn't have time to purchase these, but 5 Inf Bde did.

WRT memorials, They are pictures relating to the falklands regardless of when they were taken or the objects in them built.

The topic doesn't specify anything specific about the pictures other than they are Falklands pictures.

Soooooo.....

http://z.about.com/d/cruises/1/0/R/8/falklands002.jpg
a Rock Hopper penguin, indiginous to the Falklands.

[Panzerknacker]

Nope, they are Brits.


OK.


WRT memorials, They are pictures relating to the falklands regardless of when they were taken or the objects in them built.

The topic doesn't specify anything specific about the pictures other than they are Falklands pictures.

Soooooo.....



A penguin ? give me a break. :rolleyes:



Men of the Support Coy, 45 Cdo, Yomping to Port Stanley with the Union Flag high on the whip antenna of a PRC-350.

One of the most famous images of the War


Your picture dint came out.

[1000ydstare]

Your picture dint came out.

Well, it did on my original check, and I have just popped up to have another look and it is still there.

Must be YOUR computer.

Let's see if these come out....

http://www.bdmlr.org.uk/Photo%20Library/SC%20Falklands%20Pilots.JPG
Pilot Whales stranded on a beach, the Soldiers are there to help them. Just one of the many tasks undertaken by the British Garrison to help conservation and the environment.

Although the squad assigned to pick up penguins from the end of the runway is a mere myth used on gullable females in clubs. The pretense being the penguins watch aircraft take off and fall on their backs, where upon they can't get up again.

http://www.wku.edu/~david.keeling/djkpics/DJK-Falklands.jpg
THe Union Flag flying proud, on West Point Island of the Falklands. Long may it fly.

http://z.about.com/d/cruises/1/0/T/8/falklands004.jpg
Mixed in with the rockhopper penguins and their chicks were black browed albatrosses and their young. Many of these albatross, with their distinctive black eye brows and bright yellow-orange bills, had followed our cruise ship the Hanseatic from Ushuaia, Argentina, to the Falkland Islands. The black browed albatross make their nests, which look like a small pot or cone, from mud and grass. They are usually found on steep, rocky slopes. We were fascintated to see these two species--the rockhopper penguin and the black browed albatross--living together A single black browed albatross egg is incubated for 68 days, and the chicks fledge at 120 days. The black browed albatross is the most abundant of all the albatrosses, with over 600,000 pairs found world-wide.

I love going to the Falkland Islands. I always like to get amongst the nature.

[Panzerknacker]

Righ on, now the picture is visible.

Well...after this very illustrative Nat geo gallery we going back to the war.:)


Soldiers with penguin (again)

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/3487/pinguinowv7.jpg



With captured Flag.

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/448/mlv28ys.jpg


Achtung mines.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6627/mlv76ek.jpg

[1000ydstare]

Very rare photo, that bottom one.

It is of the ONLY MINE sign the Argentine Sappers took to the Falklands.

[Panzerknacker]

Colonel Mohamed Ali Seineldin. Infantry Regiment 25.

http://www.redargentina.com/malvinas-argentinas/Seineldin3.jpg



http://www.redargentina.com/malvinas-argentinas/seineldin5.jpg


With Busser and Castellanos.

http://www.redargentina.com/malvinas-argentinas/seineldin2.jpg

[1000ydstare]

Anothing interesting point in the bottom photo.

The white blob on the back of the guys helmet is his First Field Dressing. The Argentines took (for some reason) to taking them out of the packets and putting them on their helmets.

Quite why this practice, which rendered the FFDs un sterile and thus useless, was adopted and by who I don't know.

[Rising Sun*]

Anothing interesting point in the bottom photo.

The white blob on the back of the guys helmet is his First Field Dressing. The Argentines took (for some reason) to taking them out of the packets and putting them on their helmets.

Quite why this practice, which rendered the FFDs un sterile and thus useless, was adopted and by who I don't know.

Two possibilities spring to mind.

One, it was emulating what some Americans did in Vietnam with (unopened as far as I recall) field dressings, playing cards (ace of spades very popular), and sundry other items strapped to their helmets.

Two, if it was always strapped to the back of the helmet it might be an improvised identifier for troops behind for the wearer's function or leadership.

[Panzerknacker]

Colonel Seineldin making a grave for a captured Union Jack. Nasty guy.

http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/ejercito/seineldinyrosario.jpg

[1000ydstare]

There was a raid by the SBS in which the very practice of wrapping the FFDs around the helmets.

The SBS were going to wear mine tape around their helmets to greet the incoming troops (the old mine tape was a 2in gauze, similar to medical gauze). On their CTR to their dismay they realised the OPFOR were wearing their FFD in exactly the same fashion!!!!

Like I say, why this strange practice came in to effect I don't know.

WRT to burying the Union Flag on the Falklands, not a problem. From it will grow a tree, from which a bountyful harvest of Union Flags can be gathered everyday a dawn!!! :D

[Lone Ranger]

Colonel Seineldin making a grave for a captured Union Jack.

Is that the same guy who was imprisoned for crimes during the dirty war?

[1000ydstare]

Bloody Hell LR, good spot.

from the wiki.
10th Motorised Infantry Brigade
Commander: Brigade General Oscar Joffre. Brigade home base: Buenos Aires Province
...
25th Regiment (RI 25), 9th Infantry Brigade (attach to 10th Brigade) — airmobile, East Falkland (†13)
Commander: Lieutenant-Colonel Mohamed A. Seineldin.

[1000ydstare]

Some info on the "full stop" legislation

From http://www.abo.fi/instut/imr/research/seminars/ILA/Cerna.doc
Given the continued tension between the government and the military in December 1986, the Argentine Congress passed the first of what became known as the Argentine amnesty laws. The “Full Stop” Law (Punto Final- Law No. 23.492) imposed a 60-day deadline on the initiation of proceedings against those accused of crimes committed between 1976-1983 during the “dirty war.” The law was designed to put an end to the trials of military officers, but in fact, it had the opposite effect and the deadline accelerated the proceedings and almost 400 military officers were prosecuted.

In reaction, Major Ernest Barreiro decided not to appear in response to a court summons, and other military officers supported his rebellious attitude. On April 15, 1987, Lt. Col. Aldo Rico led an uprising of these insurgents who called themselves the “Carapintadas” (Painted Faces). They alleged that they were not trying to carry out a military coup but pressured the Government to stop the trials against the military. Argentine civil society responded with a huge rally against a possible new military coup. President Alfonsin, however, showed up personally at the School of Infantry in Campo de Mayo, where the military had barricaded itself, and negotiated with the rebel officers. As a result, the Argentine Congress passed the second of the amnesty laws, known as the “Due Obedience” Law (Obedencia Debida –Law No. 23.521). This Law was a variant of the defense of “superior orders” and granted immunity to all military officers acting under the orders of their superiors and below the rank of Colonel.

Apparently the officers threw a childish strop as they realised they were going to face the music, and they couldn't dance.

Col Seineldin was banged up as late as 1990, and tried to start a coup from prison.

[Panzerknacker]

Is that the same guy who was imprisoned for crimes during the dirty war?

Nope, he try to make a coup in 3/12/1990 ( not from the prison), failed and was sentences to life imprisoment. Received a presidential pardon in 2004.


Argentine Air force personel captured.

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/7688/dibujoav7.jpg



Testing guns.

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/9200/fseafafw1ay.jpg



Aerospatiale Gazelle in action.


http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/7762/mlv159mrad6.jpg

[1000ydstare]

The LMG mags were favoured because they held 30 rounds instead of the usual 20 of the SLR mag.

However, they needed some modification as the springs were generaly not up to the task of pushing the 20 rounds up. On the LMG the mags were fitted to the top of the weapon, similar to a Bren.

Never seen tracer taped to the butt like that. It would take time to remove and load, probably by taking the mag off and putting the tracer in the top.

It is generally preferred to load a mag up with tracer, takeing off the ball mag and putting it on when needed.

Don't recall the Gazelle being hampered by having only one engine or it's lightweigth construction.

[Man of Stoat]

Sorry, 1000 yard, L4 magazines require no modification for use on the SLR: I've got one, I use it in competition, and I know several other people who do the same. No one who actually uses one that I know has ever modified them in any way.

The only way I can think of that this myth came about would be people "liberating" knackered ones in which the spring has become weak.

Also, in comparison with L2 magazines (the straight 30 round magazines that the colonials used in their SLR based support weapons), the springs in the L4 magazines are usually slightly stronger, in my experience. This is one thing which, when given the choice, I bought an L4 magazine in place of an L2

[Rising Sun*]

Also, in comparison with L2 magazines (the straight 30 round magazines that the colonials used in their SLR based support weapons), the springs in the L4 magazines are usually slightly stronger, in my experience. This is one thing which, when given the choice, I bought an L4 magazine in place of an L2

Some colonials used the L2 magazine in SLR's in Vietnam, but its greater length could be a problem in situations where ground hugging while firing was critical.

[Panzerknacker]

Well..the Gazelle was definately vulnerable, two of these were shot down by the squad comanded by Benjamin Gomez-Centurion, (the guy in the right) in matter of minutes with combined FAL fire. This incident was already mentioned.

http://www.redargentina.com/Malvinas-Argentinas/gomezcent-esteban.jpg



MG nest.

http://www.redargentina.com/Malvinas-Argentinas/gada601-18.jpg



Argentine Army Chinnok.

http://www.redargentina.com/Malvinas-Argentinas/BAC-601-5.jpg




http://www.redargentina.com/Malvinas-Argentinas/BAC-601-4.jpg

[Rising Sun*]

Well..the Gazelle was definately vulnerable, two of these were shot down by the squad comanded by Benjamin Gomez-Centurion, (the guy in the right) in matter of minutes with combined FAL fire. This incident was already mentioned.

http://www.redargentina.com/Malvinas-Argentinas/gomezcent-esteban.jpg



Did he shoot them down with his gun, or just his megaphone? :D



MG nest.

http://www.redargentina.com/Malvinas-Argentinas/gada601-18.jpg



Silly photographs are taken for domestic propaganda purposes all the time, but that would have to be one of the all time worst MG positions in history.

Can you see why, Panzerknacker?

And it's more than just one reason. Which has absolutely nothing to do with the absence of his No. 2.

[Panzerknacker]

And yet one more of Col Seineldin, this time as portrayed by Paul Hannon in the Osprey s Men-at-Arms 250th "Argentine Forces in the Falklands".


http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/5720/seineldindy9.jpg

[1000ydstare]

Never knew that MofS, never used one myself, but you are right that most were cast offs from the Brens. Normally nicked from the armourers shop!!!!

They did sit higher too, when on your belt buckle, but was handy.

What is the difference between the Gazelle and the Scout? Both have one engine, both similar size.

A helicopter can be brought down few shots no matter how big or how many engines they have.

[Lone Ranger]

The magazine of the LMG version of the BREN was designed to be compatible with the emergency use of SLR magazines. Hence, the LMG magazine will also usually fit the SLR. However, it was by no means all SLR that would accept them, some had feed problems.

[Panzerknacker]

Silly photographs are taken for domestic propaganda purposes all the time, but that would have to be one of the all time worst MG positions in history


So ...what ?

Propaganda is an integral part of any war, and the 1982 war wasnt the exception.


First Sargeant Jacinto Batista Tactical diver unit

http://i3.tinypic.com/x2syvo.jpg



http://www.bichosverdes.org/Batista.jpg



J.B also have his color plate in MAA 250.:rolleyes:

http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/3792/batistatt7.jpg

[Digger]

Batista? Didn't he become a wrestler?:shock:;)

Sorry guys I couldn't resist a little joke. Fascinating thread and thanks to you all.

Regards digger

[1000ydstare]

And back to the propaganda/geneva convention of protection of pows again!!!!

Oh, well. They may have been taken prisonner, but these same men came back down as part of 42 Cdo (a Coy of 42 was sent to reclaim South Georgia and never got to the Falklands) a sorted things out on a more level playing field.

ie not a whole Army versus a understrength company :D

[32Bravo]

Those pictures of Royal Marines lying on the ground as prisoners, were an excellent piece of propaganda. When the British public saw those pictures of their 'boys' being splashed accross the newspapers, being treated that way - the war was on, and they were up for it.

[Panzerknacker]

Those pictures of Royal Marines lying on the ground as prisoners, were an excellent piece of propaganda. When the British public saw those pictures of their 'boys' being splashed accross the newspapers, being treated that way - the war was on, and they were up for it.


Agreed.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1579/cccccrb8.jpg

[Panzerknacker]

And this is my favorite of all, Cap Marcos Carballo and ltn Carlos Rinke attacking the HMS Broadsword, 25th may 1982.

http://i7.tinypic.com/67861rm.jpg

[Rising Sun*]

And this is my favorite of all, Cap Marcos Carballo and ltn Carlos Rinke attacking the HMS Broadsword, 25th may 1982.

http://i7.tinypic.com/67861rm.jpg

Would the target be the enemy water?

'Cos that's where all the fire is going.

And, unless my failing memory fails me, Broadsword survived this attempt to sink it by the apparent cunning Argentinian plan to generate fatal waves by churning up the ocean with ill-directed fire.

Or did it disappear in the big white plume at middle, one third from right?

[Gen. Sandworm]

Would the target be the enemy water?

'Cos that's where all the fire is going.



Maybe a recently submerged enemy sub. Or maybe they are just trigger happy.............who knows!

My bet is that it was Lochness monster trying to join the fight.

[1000ydstare]

Definitaly hard to see why you like that picture Panzerknacker.

It is just bullets going in to water.

WRT the propaganda, definitly a back fire, but at that time the Junta really didn't believe they were going to be bitchslapped by the IRON LADY.

They were just revelling in their shortlived victory.

[Panzerknacker]

I like because it shows the heavy AAA fire that the argentine pilot had to withstand in those days.

Carballo hit with the Broadsword wth a 500 kg bomb but it didnt explode.

http://members.libreopinion.com/ar/elmalvinense/buques/broadswoard/004.jpg


http://members.libreopinion.com/ar/elmalvinense/buques/broadswoard/003.jpg



http://members.libreopinion.com/ar/elmalvinense/buques/broadswoard/001.jpg



http://members.libreopinion.com/ar/elmalvinense/buques/broadswoard/002.jpg

[1000ydstare]

I wonder what the WREN is doing on the boat?

She is far right on the close up of hte name, with the crew standing along the netting. WRENs did not go to sea in them days.

Many bombs dropped by the Argentines did not go off. They were fused wrong.

HMS Plymouth also suffered bomb damage but no explosion.

Similarly the Harriers also dropped bombs on the Narwhel (A trawler used by the Argentines for Int gathering) that didn't go off!!!

The SBS had to board it later.

[32Bravo]

I wonder what the WREN is doing on the boat?


Perhaps she is the reason the bomb didn't explode - it was a chivalrous bomb?

The photo is probably taken as the ship returned to Plymouth Sound or Portsmouth. They probably choppered her in (excuse the pun) to chear up the jolly Tars, and the ones with funny 'greeny' looking berets.

[Panzerknacker]

HMS Plymouth also suffered bomb damage but no explosion


Some images of the HMS Plymount hit by bomb the 8th June, and for 30mm guns earlier.


Cannon hits.

http://members.libreopinion.com/ar/elmalvinense/buques/plymouth/03.jpg


http://members.libreopinion.com/ar/elmalvinense/buques/plymouth/05.jpg



Bombed, the ship seems wasted form this view but I guess the damage wasnt severe.

http://members.libreopinion.com/ar/elmalvinense/buques/plymouth/06.jpg


http://members.libreopinion.com/ar/elmalvinense/buques/plymouth/04.jpg


The bomb hole.

[1000ydstare]

Can assure you it looks worse than it actually was.

She is tied up in UK now as part of a museum.

http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/liverpool/mf68.jpg
She is the larger of the two ships closest to land.

There is a U-boat, HMS Onyx, another ship HMS B something, and a light ship also there. And a landing craft from the falklands.

The damage, is painted up in red, so it is clearly visable. (for museum purposes).

[Rising Sun*]

I like because it shows the heavy AAA fire that the argentine pilot had to withstand in those days.

Are you sure?

Reference right hand top corner. About one fifth in from top and same distance from side is an object which I can't make out, but could be a plane.

Anti-aircraft fire directed at that object and the plane which took the photograph would be likely to be on a trajectory which wouldn't hit the water in the photo.

The large plume on the right is not consistent with other alleged AA fire, but might be with something dropped from the object I can't indentify.

Even if it's AA fire, it's not a patch on what the Americans and Japanese routinely flew into in the Pacific, which wasn't a patch on what everybody flew into in Europe.

[32Bravo]

Are you sure?

Reference right hand top corner. About one fifth in from top and same distance from side is an object which I can't make out, but could be a plane.



It appears to be a Skyhawk to me. It also appears to have something attached to its underwings, possibly bombs. I would assume that drop-tanks would have been released by this time?

[Rising Sun*]

It appears to be a Skyhawk to me. It also appears to have something attached to its underwings, possibly bombs. I would assume that drop-tanks would have been released by this time?

How can you see that?

Let me know who your optometrist is.

Or maybe it's time for me to stop buying cheap Chinese spectacles at markets.

I wasn't even sure there anything there, apart perhaps from an unfortunate albatross.

[32Bravo]

How can you see that?

Let me know who your optometrist is.

Or maybe it's time for me to stop buying cheap Chinese spectacles at markets.

I wasn't even sure there anything there, apart perhaps from an unfortunate albatross.


As I said - not every marksman can be a sniper. :D

[Rising Sun*]

As I said - not every marksman can be a sniper. :D

By your standards of visual acuity, I'd be bloody lucky to avoid falling over my seeing eye dog! :D

It remains for Panzerknackers to explain why AA fire is directed into the ocean rather than the more conventional approach of firing it into the air, where the planes are.

[32Bravo]

By your standards of visual acuity, I'd be bloody lucky to avoid falling over my seeing eye dog! :D

It remains for Panzerknackers to explain why AA fire is directed into the ocean rather than the more conventional approach of firing it into the air, where the planes are.

I think I could explain that, but I wouldn't want to steal PK's thunder.

By the way, have you been at the porridge again? :D

[Panzerknacker]

It remains for Panzerknackers to explain why AA fire is directed into the ocean rather than the more conventional approach of firing it into the air, where the planes are

You are wrong, I dont have to answer that, the british gunners have.

Anti-aircraft fire directed at that object and the plane which took the photograph

No airplane take that picture, It was a crewmember of the HMS Broadsword.

[Panzerknacker]

Mirage V near miss.

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6905/sancarlosdaggerxp0.jpg


Aerospatiale Gazelle down.

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/7517/gazelle1982fx4.jpg



A-4.

http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/7472/a4vv9.jpg



Sea Cat shot

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4016/sdfkn0.jpg

[Rising Sun*]

You are wrong, I dont have to answer that, the british gunners have.

You don't have to answer that, or you can't?


32Bravo

Sitrep.

Out :D

[Panzerknacker]

I have my guessing, a bad aim , but as I said I am not the best person to answer that.:rolleyes:

Bofors 40/70 onboard British ship (Fearless?)


http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/455/pe12wu2.jpg

[Rising Sun*]

No airplane take that picture, It was a crewmember of the HMS Broadsword.

Fair enough.

I've misunderstood the photographer's standpoint.

[1000ydstare]

The rounds in the picture are probably (all though they don't look right) hitting the water to engage a low level aircraft. Bad aim is not going to extend to a gunner shooting in to the water, instead of the air.

As for the Gazelle, Three were shot down, two by the Argentines, and one by a Sea Dart from HMS Cardiff in a friendly fire incident.

The two shot down by the Argentines was over San Carlos by substantial Small Arms fire.

[Panzerknacker]

More images of the British defenses.

Bofors 40mm.

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/2764/people217ae.jpg



Rapier in the shore of San carlos.

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1867/sam13cn.jpg



Even the MAG 7,62mm were used .

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7343/stickyleach31nq.jpg

[Rising Sun*]

The rounds in the picture are probably (all though they don't look right) hitting the water to engage a low level aircraft. Bad aim is not going to extend to a gunner shooting in to the water, instead of the air. My bold

That's my problem.

Could be wind on the spray but it looks like the rounds are coming from the left of picture.

But why the big plume on the right? Very different calibre to the rest. If it's a round.

Certainly there are WWII pictures of similarly disturbed water, but with rather more ships in the area and rather more planes attracting their fire.

While PK has presented the picture as AA fire, why isn't it just overshoot from aircraft fire at the ships, or from aircraft out of the picture?

It just looks wrong spread all over the area unrelated to targets ships' gunners might be firing at.

[Lone Ranger]

The big plume is weird. Are we sure this was Broadsword and not Coventry?

Broadsword only had medium calibre guns, Coventry also had the 4.5" gun.

[Panzerknacker]

Here:

http://www.hmsbroadsword.co.uk/falklands/thewar/bomb_alley_5th_day.htm


And a bigger picture for the benefit of the near sighted members.

Clik here

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2955/a4ataqueaz8.jpg

[1000ydstare]

IMH The large splash is possibley from the ship. I reckon most of the small flashes are actually rounds coming from Carbello, in the main.

The splashes aren't coming from the ship. Even if the gunners were having a sighting problem, aiming in to the sea and then bring them guns up, the splash patteren would be different. It would be closer together.

The only other option is that small arms were used too.

[Lone Ranger]

I think I've figure out what the big splash is. The ship is firing 20 mm cannon, could it be a shell burst, the rest of the splashes are the previous bursts?

[32Bravo]

Kimo Sabi, where have you been? I feel neglected. :)

I think you are right, in part. The larger splash is that of the 4.5" gun, the others are those of lesser caliber weapons, including the Jimpie.

[Panzerknacker]

Kimo Sabi, where have you been? I feel neglected

Easy there.

And yes, the smalls arms were definately used...man I think if the britons had bricks in their ships they probaly used against the incoming aircrafts too.:mrgreen:


Fal vs Mirage.

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/3991/falagaistmirageft9.jpg



http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/2403/55wm1.jpg

( Public healt announce, the cigarrete is bad for the health)

[1000ydstare]

And yes, the smalls arms were definately used...man I think if the britons had bricks in their ships they probaly used against the incoming aircrafts too.

So would you mate, if you were on the receiveing end.!!!

[Rising Sun*]

I think I've figure out what the big splash is. The ship is firing 20 mm cannon, could it be a shell burst, the rest of the splashes are the previous bursts?

Probably not.

You can see a faint mist around the other splashes. They're lower and smaller. They weren't the same size as the big plume.

[Walther]

Colonel Mohamed Ali Seineldin. Infantry Regiment 25.

http://www.redargentina.com/malvinas-argentinas/Seineldin3.jpg



http://www.redargentina.com/malvinas-argentinas/seineldin5.jpg


With Busser and Castellanos.

http://www.redargentina.com/malvinas-argentinas/seineldin2.jpg

This used to be standard practice with the British forces in WW2, to keep the shell dressing (unopened, in it's khaki cover) beneath the camouflage net on the back of the helmet for fast access. The Field Dressing was carried in a special pocket on the right hip on the Battle dress trousers.

Jan

[Panzerknacker]

British paras Monte Longdon

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/2791/mlv1003gb4.jpg


What is the the thing carried as backpack in the second man fron the right ?

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5348/montelongdon56pw1.jpg

[1000ydstare]

Panzerknacker.

The man second right in the lower picture, appears to be carrying a Milan post. It is what the holds and then fires and controls the Milan weapon during flight.

Similar to the one in the Right hand bottom corner of the top pic. Yu can also just make out a Milan tube.

The two lads in teh top picture are undoubtedly carrying Argentine .50 cal ammo. The British at the time did not deploy a .50 cal weapon, but during the course of the war collected Argentine .50 cals and ammo.

Note the guy on the right in the top photo has his bayonet fixed.

[Lone Ranger]

It is a Milan firing post. Both the Marines and the Paras developed a technique to man-pack Milan in the Falklands. Even with the missiles removed from their containers for nearly 4 weeks and exposed to the conditions in the Falklands they all worked as advertised. The packs weighed close to 120 lbs though.

[32Bravo]

It is a Milan firing post. Both the Marines and the Paras developed a technique to man-pack Milan in the Falklands. Even with the missiles removed from their containers for nearly 4 weeks and exposed to the conditions in the Falklands they all worked as advertised. The packs weighed close to 120 lbs though.

Was the 120 lbs when loaded, or unloaded?

[1000ydstare]

The Paras, Marines and other Infantry units (Gurkhas and Guards) already knew how to man pack Milan, it was a "man portable" weapon. (Honest).

IIRC it requires 3 men to move a post (and ammo) during the Falklands, I have seen pictures recently showing 4 on the British Army website. I think extra kit has been added to the Milan post.

The reason behind this portablity was so dismounted troops could move independently of their vehices setting up tank traps on the European field of battle. The moved with something like 3-5 shots between them.

It is now more in vogue to mount these weapons on vehicles.

The 81mm Mortar also breaks down in to a 3 person lift, as does the GPMG (SF). Ammo resup is obviously a problem if man packed.

120lb is actually the average weight for a rifleman in war.

Specialists such as the Milan crews, Machine Gunners, Mortar Men, radio ops etc, often carry more.

[Lone Ranger]

The Paras, Marines and other Infantry units (Gurkhas and Guards) already knew how to man pack Milan, it was a "man portable" weapon. (Honest).

Did you every have to carry the b*****d? The guys who carried it across the islands have my respect.

[Rising Sun*]

120lb is actually the average weight for a rifleman in war.

This is where we've lost the plot.

60 to 80 lbs carried in WWII, at least for Australians fully equipped against the Japanese.

How can we have all the air support and supply and other marvels of the modern world yet burden our riflemen with so much more weight?

Someone needs to get a grip on themselves in the planning areas.

[32Bravo]

120lb is actually the average weight for a rifleman in war.


Yes, 120 pounds including the rest of his kit. However, soldiers soon learn the difference between that which is is worth keeping and that which is better ditched - be it equipment or rations. The mortar and anti-tank teams, as with signallers drew the short straw.

I wasn't questioning the man-packable capability of the Milan, nor the fact that they used them. In fact, as I'm sure you know, they were recommended to Jones at Darwin Ridge, but he wouldn't hear of it - probably because he was focussed on momentum, and he was caught up at the front (nature of the beast, and leading from the font). If he had remained a little further back, perhaps he would have considered the proposal and thought it a better option for maintaining momentum - who knows?

[32Bravo]

This is where we've lost the plot.

60 to 80 lbs carried in WWII, at least for Australians fully equipped against the Japanese.

How can we have all the air support and supply and other marvels of the modern world yet burden our riflemen with so much more weight?

Someone needs to get a grip on themselves in the planning areas.

Unfortunately, the enemy took away our hoverable toys. :D

Everything had to be manpacked.

[Panzerknacker]

All right thanks, initially I tough it was a flametrower but I knew none was used in those days.

I think the Milan was used to destroy MGs nest since there was no tanks in the islands, at list no Argentine ones.

[1000ydstare]

Milan, 66mm and Charlie Gees were all used on bunkers and trenches in lieu of tanks to shoot at.

The Charlie Gee was used (possibley the first time in anger) against the Corvette attacking the lads on South Georgia causing damage and the boat stayed clear after that.

The first in action firing of a Milan is reportedly against a low flying aircraft.

120lbs soon mounts up. 1 liter of water weighs in at a hefty 1 Kg (2.2lbs) figure you would require anything up to 10lbs worth of water alone for a day or two. Food, sleeping bag, rifle, grenades, ammunition and I would say you are pretty close to 120lbs already.

There is nothing to do at the planning stage to reduce this burden, it is required to maintain efficiency. Whether or not it can be carried by vehicles or helis is another matter.

Today you can also factor in body armour to the overall weight.

The lads don't fight carrying this weight, the bergans are cached to the rear.

[Rising Sun*]

120lbs soon mounts up. 1 liter of water weighs in at a hefty 1 Kg (2.2lbs) figure you would require anything up to 10lbs worth of water alone for a day or two.

Depends on climate, geography and water discipline.

A litre on good water discipline will easily do for a day in the tropics if you start out hydrated, for life but not comfort, but you wouldn't want to keep it up for days or you'll lose vital salts and dehydrate and become ineffective.

What you need to carry depends upon what's available for refilling canteens.

As an aside, a mate of mine in Vietnam was with another bloke refilling their platoon's canteens (about fifteen extra canteens each) from a water hole in enemy country when a stuff up throwing wrong coloured smoke resulted in their unit calling in an airstrike on itself. He and the other bloke saw what happened and saw the jets swinging to fire on the smoke near them. He started running. It was all in slow motion. Took him a while to realise he was dragging about fifteen full canteens on a lanyard. His speed improved dramatically when he slipped the lanyard.

Food, sleeping bag, rifle, grenades, ammunition and I would say you are pretty close to 120lbs already.

My recollection is that 60 lb for Aussies in WWII was their weapons; ?50 to 60 rounds .303; their webbing; and what they could fit in their '37 pattern basic pouches and back pack, which was a pretty small back pack (still got one - about a quarter the size of the giant packs my kids wear to school which I reckon are sufficient to conquer Mt Everest!)

The lads don't fight carrying this weight, the bergans are cached to the rear.

On planned attacks.

Ambushed, you fight with what you have on or try to ditch it, sometimes both at the same time.

[Panzerknacker]

Some aircraft pictures.

A-4 flight refuelling.

http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/aviones/010.jpg



Mirage V

http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/aviones/003.jpg



Dassault Super Etendar:

http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/aviones/004.jpg



Dawn in San julian.

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/7365/untitledah1.jpg


250 kg bomb below M V.

[Eagle]

Panzer, excellent pics. In order to add some info to the photos:


1. An A-4C Skyhawk making a refuel from a KC-130H Hercules, during a real combat mission in 1982 (is not an exercise or maneuver in peace time)

2. Two Mirage V Dagger being guided by a Learjet 35A agaist the Royal Navy fleet. If my memory doesn't fail, that was on June the 8th, when those Daggers attacked the frigate HMS Plymouth.

3. Dassault Super Etendards with the anti-ship missile AM-39 Exocet. This photo wasn't taken during the war, but some month later in an exercise in the South of Argentina.

4. Nothing to say... Excellent pic from a noble Mirage V Dagger, nowadays Finger

5. Note the spanish exploding mechanism "Kappa E".

[Eagle]

http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotos1/presos.jpg
April 2nd. The Rosario Operation was succeeded. An Argentine Special Forces member (from the Amphibious Commandos, Argentine Navy), is guiding to surrended Royal Marines in Stanley, town which was renamed the same day as Argentine Port. It was one of the most known and recognized photographs from the war.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/690/elmariocarcaraa0jp.jpg
The Argentine cargo ship "Río Carcarañá" is burning after being attacked by British Harriers, on May 16th. The vessel was abandoned and after the Argentine surrender in June, was moved to Argentine Port coasts in order to be sunk by more aerial attacks.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1513/33xv.jpg
The Argentine submarine "Santa Fe" is sinking near South Georgia, while a tug boat tries to move it to the UK. The Santa Fe was attacked by British helicopters on April 25th.

[Eagle]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/malcon73/1er-Contacto.jpg
A British Sea Harrier intercepts a Boeing 707 from the Argentine Air Force, before the hostilities begining, on April 21st.

http://img446.imageshack.us/img446/8195/learjet32tp.jpg
An Argentine Canberra, an ironically British-Build bomber, and a Hawker Siddeley HS-125 from the former oil state-enterprise YPF. This aircraft joint to the Volunteers Phoenix Squadron, formed by civilian aircrafts and pilots who decided to being part of the war. The Phoenix Squadron

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3474/113ql.jpg
A Harrier engine, after it was shoot down by Argentine forces.

http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~cyberheritage/arrow.jpg
The Red Arrows saluting the HMS Arrow, which had been hit during the conflict by Argentine aerial attacks, during its return to Britain.

[Gen. Sandworm]

Off-Topic!

MY GOD the man lives. Where have you been? Nice to have you back! :D

[Eagle]

His excellency Gral Sandworm,

It's nice to read that I am welcome again to the forum. I comment there wasn't only one point about my ausency, there were a lot, for instance studies, which takes a lot of my time -I am studying two universitary carreers, Commercial Aviation and International Relationships-, work, and really I've decided to use my little time on the internet to post in spanish-language forums, because of the time that reading and writing in english takes to me (of course always more than a post in my own language, that's logic).

But after a chat with Marcelo or Panzercknacker, I've decided to return in order to see how is all and how are you all here. I've returned after 13 months of ausency in order to keep a continue and permanent stay here, or at least I'll try it.

Some things had changed from the last time I've participated in the forum. I was a high school boy with 17 years. Now I'm a pilot, and after the unforgetable traditional trip to Bariloche, a little more serious student (now at the University as I've said before) :D, but with the same willingly of discussing and share information.

Regards from Arg.

[Dani]

I've returned after 13 months
Nice to have you back.

[Lone Ranger]

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1513/33xv.jpg
The Argentine submarine "Santa Fe" is sinking near South Georgia, while a tug boat tries to move it to the UK. The Santa Fe was attacked by British helicopters on April 25th.

For info, the British chose to sink Sante Fe in deep water away from the harbour. They didn't think it was worth anything as a war prize after the helos had finished with it.

hola y recepción detrás

By the way my Spanish is crap but I do make the effort.

[32Bravo]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/malcon73/1er-Contacto.jpg
A British Sea Harrier intercepts a Boeing 707 from the Argentine Air Force, before the hostilities begining, on April 21st.

http://img446.imageshack.us/img446/8195/learjet32tp.jpg
An Argentine Canberra, an ironically British-Build bomber, and a Hawker Siddeley HS-125 from the former oil state-enterprise YPF. This aircraft joint to the Volunteers Phoenix Squadron, formed by civilian aircrafts and pilots who decided to being part of the war. The Phoenix Squadron

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3474/113ql.jpg
A Harrier engine, after it was shoot down by Argentine forces.

http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~cyberheritage/arrow.jpg
The Red Arrows saluting the HMS Arrow, which had been hit during the conflict by Argentine aerial attacks, during its return to Britain.


That's Plymouth Breakwater in the background, with Drakes island coming into view on the right of picture.

[Panzerknacker]

30 mm Mirage cannon hits in the HMS Arrow.

http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/buques/arrow/02.jpg




http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/buques/arrow/03.jpg




http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/buques/arrow/01.jpg




http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/buques/arrow/04.jpg


Some big holes there.

[Panzerknacker]

SAS in Malvinas.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/malcon73/Image11.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/malcon73/his20team20below20Mount20Kent.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/malcon73/Parachute_drop.jpg

[Panzerknacker]

Representation of the night attack on Pebble island 14th may 1982.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/malcon73/Night20Insertion201.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/malcon73/C6E4BAEDBCB6C0C720B9DAB0DDC6F7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/malcon73/C6E4BAEDBCB6C0C720C7AAC4ABB6F320B0F.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/malcon73/SAS-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/malcon73/SAS-3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/malcon73/SAS-4.jpg

[1000ydstare]

From the film "Pebble Island".

Real back to traditional valuse for teh SAS this raid.

It is what the SAS did in the desert against Rommel and co.

Interesting fact. The bombs used in the desert were bags of explosive (usually a loose powder/granules) so that when they were thrown on to the wing, they didn't roll of.

On Pebble Island they used small arms and satchel charges.

[Panzerknacker]

Casualties of the attack of the Argentine Air Force on HMS Sir Tristam and Sir Galahand

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/9428/12345ox4.jpg



http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3681/123456vs9.jpg


"Red and Green Life Machine: Diary of the Falklands Field Hospital" ( Rick Jolly )

[Panzerknacker]

Commando Battalion 601 Blow pipe section in action, 21th may 1982.

http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/9828/blowpipecw6.jpg


Flt Lt William Glover of the RAF picked up off the water . His aircraft was hit by the british made missile.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/2751/gloveryx5.jpg


The wreck of the Harrier GR 3.

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/1504/blowpipe2ho9.jpg

[Panzerknacker]

Awaiting the landing. 20 mm Mg emplacement near Pt Argentino.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9003/desembarcoxu5.jpg

[Panzerknacker]

May 28th, 1982. This was the last attempt to prevent the fall of Puerto Darwin to British Hands. The Operation was carried out by Argentine Army's 601th Aviation Batallion, made up by Bell UH-1H, SA330 Puma and Agusta A109A helicopters.

http://www.aviationart.com.ar/galerias/militar/Agusta.jpg

[1000ydstare]

http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/9828/blowpipecw6.jpg

Interesting to note, Blowpipe was used by both sides during the Falklands. It was pretty bonk.

Mainly because the missile was slwoer than the aircraft it was trying to hit!!! Unless the aircraft was coming at you, you didn't have much chance of hitting it. The Harriers were slower than most of the Argentine aircraft, so I don't know if they had a better chance.

Was it the 601 Bns Agustas that were "borrowed" by the British at the end of the war?

[Panzerknacker]

The blow pipe was not the most brillinat AAA system in use by the Army.

Of the 5 times use twice it failed to lock in the objetive, 2 locked but achieved no hits and the fitht was the one who bring down Glover.

Was it the 601 Bns Agustas that were "borrowed" by the British at the end of the war?


I guess so, I dont have any picture of that helicopter captured.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5005/awdwdfl3.jpg

[Nickdfresh]

You really think a British-made missile would be so rude as to shoot down a British-made jet?

[Lone Ranger]

No more so than the AIM-9L that shot down several A-4 Skyhawks and a Hercules....

[Panzerknacker]

You really think a British-made missile would be so rude as to shoot down a British-made jet?


:D, well I dont know or it was too bad or wasnt properly manned, that variant of the Blow PIpe need to aimed continuosly to the target meanwhile someother MANPDS are fire and forget like the SA-7/16.

[Pánzon]

I hope this picture is new for you, got it from a book that a "friend of mine" never returned "Falklands, Task Force South".....

I have no idea of his origin more than that, not having the book anymore I can not mention its author.

http://www.ecv56condor.com.ar/~panzon/Dagger_bajito_sobre_buque_britanico.jpg

:shock::shock:

http://www.ecv56condor.com.ar/~panzon/Dagger_bajito_sobre_buque_britanico.jpg

[Dani]

Off-topic: please change your avatar into a ww2 related one.
Thanks.

[1000ydstare]

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5005/awdwdfl3.jpg

Delightful :D

Having been on these horrible creations I can point out that the boys on board are probably dying to get off#!!!

Observe the front of the craft, under the ramp. A good 1 meter of motino there me thinks. These craft are flat bottomed which mean they rock like a bugger in anything but a mill pond.

[Pánzon]

Off-topic: please change your avatar into a ww2 related one.
Thanks.

Done 1000ydstare, excuse me 4 this but i did no realize the avatar should have to be in relation with WWII, I always use the same avatar as the aliens always made me laugh.

Cheers,

Pánzon

[1000ydstare]

Personally mate, I don't mind what your Avatar looks like, it is a site rule up held by the MODs.... ie Dani, not my good self.

[Dani]

Gracias Pánzon!;)

[Pánzon]

My pleasure Dani,

BTW, have yo seen the Dagger? Low, isn´t it?

Juan.

[Panzerknacker]

Hola Panzon, bienvenido al nuestro foro, (ese nombre me suena)

By the way the Dagger is here. :D

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/6638/daggerbajitosobrebuquebon7.jpg

[Panzerknacker]

It hurts ¡¡

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/2068/faact9bg5.jpg

Ricardo Lucero, Dagger pilot, scream of pain after being hit by seadart and forced to eject in San carlos waters, 25th may 1982.

The pilot broke a leg in the process and was captured by the HMS Fearless.

[Panzerknacker]

The dark skin colour of Lucero gave place to a funny incident, the britons believ for soetime that the argentine air Force was using Peruvian pilots.In fact Peru helped Argentina selling 10 Mirage Vp, those planes were ferried by peruvians pilots to Argentina , but they came too late for participate in combats and in any case the Air Force ( obviously) rejected the entusiast requeriment of the peruvians to fly combat missions agaist the Royal Navy.

[tankgeezer]

It is an odd part of the male human psyche that urges them to join a fight, even if it does not directly involve them. I remember years ago, when Serbia invaded Croatia, I wanted to go there,grab a crew, climb into a tank, and go hunting.Logically, it made no sense, but vicerally, it made perfect sense. A very strange feeling .(it would have been a glorious ass kicking...):twisted:

[Pánzon]

Hello there,

In a "pack" of a VHS + book edited by the BBC "Falklands, Task Force South" ( I think it is more than 20 years old), in the video there is a footage of Tte Lucero just being brought to one ship ( if I do not remember bad it was the fearless) after his ejection...... there is some drama in the footage as Lt Lucero had a dislocated joint, I think it was one of his legs and was in tremendous pain when surrounded by sailors and at the same time he was being looked after by medical team...... you can see his terrible pain+ fear in his eyes and you can see how they shot him with I think was morphine for his enormous pain inside very same he had tried apparently to attack.

I thank the British forces for the treatment and for having taken the task of rescuing him from the water and given treatment to ease his suffering, there was chivalry demonstrated in that event once and once again.

Cheers.

Pánzon.

[Panzerknacker]

It is an odd part of the male human psyche that urges them to join a fight, even if it does not directly involve them. I remember years ago, when Serbia invaded Croatia, I wanted to go there,grab a crew, climb into a tank, and go hunting.Logically, it made no sense, but vicerally, it made perfect sense. A very strange feeling .(it would have been a glorious ass kicking...)Oh, I am pretty sure you would do a great jo in a M-60. I thank the British forces for the treatment and for having taken the task of rescuing him from the water and given treatment to ease his suffering, there was chivalry demonstrated in that event once and once again.It was surely chivalrius in that event, but unfortunately wanst always the rule in the land combats.

[Lone Ranger]

It was surely chivalrius in that event, but unfortunately wanst always the rule in the land combats.

Please don't start that crap again, the British treated casualties according to need not nationality. One of the remarkable aspects of the Falklands War is that both sides are acknowledged to have respected the rules of war.

[Pánzon]

On this, I go with Lone Ranger, even when i is evident from his "Call sign" that he wants to "range alone"....... the behaviour of the British Forces and the Argentines as well was "gentlemanly and humane" at least.

Cheers,

Juan.

[Panzerknacker]

Well, Is not the theme of this topic so I suggest take a tour in the one called "War crimes in Malvinas"

Back to the pictures.

http://www.libreopinion.com/members/ar/elmalvinense/ejercito/013.jpg

[1000ydstare]

Panzon, don't bother going to the War Crimes thread.

It is a crime against humanity the thread is up, and will definitily lower your IQ reading it.

To paraphrase a well known saying... "War is Hell".

Unless you KNOW fully of what you talk about I would stay out of such topics. They cause resent and upset, not just on this site, especially if ill-informed people start accusations that can't be upheld.

To quote the back of Hamburger Hill. "Humanity at it's worst, by men at their best".

It is a sad fact that, in a lot of ways, the Argentines didn't fully know what they were getting in to, or the "rules".

That is why they (and I don't mean site members specifically but Argentines in general) beleive such acts as the Belgrano sinking, use of bayonets and a long list of other atrocities are war crimes.

Then wheel out such fiction as they staged a mock attack on Moody Brook Barracks with Tear Gas and pillows to avoid unnecessary deaths, and convienently forget about their little stash of Napalm at Goose Green.

[Panzerknacker]

That is why they (and I don't mean site members specifically but Argentines in general) beleive such acts as the Belgrano sinking, use of bayonets and a long list of other atrocities are war crimes


Pure lies from your part , I Never said that.

[Pánzon]

Panzon, don't bother going to the War Crimes thread.

It is a crime against humanity the thread is up, and will definitily lower your IQ reading it.

To paraphrase a well known saying... "War is Hell".



Don´t you worry 1000yd Stare,

I am not interested in ANY flame war......... I had not, and I will not go into the "crimes of war" subforum....

The Belgrano, in spite of the lost of over 300 of my nationals I consider it a legitimate act of war, he was not there cruising families, that ship was going into war.... and I am convinced that it was there to serve as "bait"..... more and less as the Ardent and Antelope had to do later on the war....

As per the land actions, let me tell you that my grand dad received 7 bayonet strokes and 4 shots in WW I and almost died...... as he was shot and fell on top of the Mauser, thus, any French passing by would bayonet him he never resented the French as he was a proud soldier of the Mikäfer regiment and after the battle his life was saved by a French Dr........ who took special care of him and as a result, I am able to write these lines over here...... his only reward, was a 2nd class cross of Iron and the loss of his left arm, considering that he was the solo violinist of the Filarmonic of Hannover, at 17 years old...... you can imagine how his life was after that..... he had to become a glorified bean counter.

I will contribute with what ever I can to the Other Wars, Falklands/Malvinas forum, and that is it my friend....... I want to tend bridges, close doors and if it is possible to try to get positions closer in some aspects, flame wars are for idiots and I am far from being one....:)

Cheers,

Juan.

[Panzerknacker]

I am not interested in ANY flame war......... I had not, and I will not go into the "crimes of war" subforum....

A quick read woulndt make any harm, I am convinced that you ll learn something that at this time you didnt know.

[Panzerknacker]

Funny pic, after so many people telling me so many times I honestly believe that the gurkhas didnt kill anybody in the war, but now looking this picture I have my doubts, they could kill somebody with that bomb trowing apparatus.

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/4789/fefwfwfpz5.jpg

[tankgeezer]

Quote: "Tankgeezer, you were right to point this out but I have deleted your post too so as to keep continuity. As usual please feel free to contact me if you have any queries."

No worries, I should have used a PM for this situation, T Geezer.

[Panzerknacker]

Napalm filled tanks pictured in Goose Green, those were designed for use in A-4 and FMA IA-58. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depend in wich side are you looking for) those were never used against ships, it would be no "fuze troubles" with this.

http://i14.tinypic.com/4xqqarr.jpg

[Firefly]

Wasnt Napalm declared illegal before 1982?

[Lone Ranger]

No, not until Dec. 1983, and then only if a country ratified Protocol III of the CCW.

The UK unilaterally abandoned the use of Napalm when it renounced chemical weapons in 1957.

[Rising Sun*]

Napalm filled tanks pictured in Goose Green, those were designed for use in A-4 and FMA IA-58. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depend in wich side are you looking for) those were never used against ships, it would be no "fuze troubles" with this.

It depends on the type of ship, doesn't it?

A fully closed up fighting ship is going to get scorched externally but I doubt it'd be seriously damaged nor get much in the way of casualties, as demonstrated by the USS Liberty which wasn't even a fighting ship.

[Chevan]

No, not until Dec. 1983, and then only if a country ratified Protocol III of the CCW.

The UK unilaterally abandoned the use of Napalm when it renounced chemical weapons in 1957.
Thats true Ranger, hi.
In the 1983 the only USA did not signed the protocol III that forbid to use the Napalm.
The Britain and the most of European statets has ratified it.

[Chevan]

It depends on the type of ship, doesn't it?

A fully closed up fighting ship is going to get scorched externally but I doubt it'd be seriously damaged nor get much in the way of casualties, as demonstrated by the USS Liberty which wasn't even a fighting ship.
Hi RS ;)
I 've read the most victims of the Liberty was resault of the explosion of the Israel torpedo- not due to the Napalm bombs.
However the intensive napalm bombing could bring the serious damage of the any military ship.

[Panzerknacker]

No, not until Dec. 1983, and then only if a country ratified Protocol III of the CCW.

The UK unilaterally abandoned the use of Napalm when it renounced chemical weapons in 1957


Argentina did not sign those, so...let them burn.

Actually the use of Napalm was seriously limited buy the Argentine High command for "humanitarian reasons", what a bunch of sissies. :evil:

[Chevan]

Napalm filled tanks pictured in Goose Green, those were designed for use in A-4 and FMA IA-58. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depend in wich side are you looking for) those were never used against ships,


From any side loking for the using of the wearpon that was forbidden by the Geneva convention by the Argentinians could provoke the Britain for the alternative actions.
For instance the could began to use the glorious BRitish strategic aviation - to make the little bomberholocaust for the Argentinian plants or military sea ports.
In this prospect the situation could be much worst.
And do not forget that the Britain ( to the contrast of Argentine) is the Nuclear State.
The further - the bigger.
So any development of the events in a such way could bring for the Argentine only the additional victims - nothing more.

Cheers.

[Rising Sun*]

Hi RS ;)
I 've read the most victims of the Liberty was resault of the explosion of the Israel torpedo- not due to the Napalm bombs.
However the intensive napalm bombing could bring the serious damage of the any military ship.

I think any damage would be mostly external.

Napalm could destroy radio and radar aerials, gun direction systems, etc which would affect the ship's capacity to fight and defend itself, but I doubt napalm could sink it or even put it at risk of sinking.

Without a hole below the waterline, a ship will continue to float. Napalm could never deliver a hole below the waterline. Or even above it.

Worse, the magazines, gun turrets and any below deck missiles might well remain serviceable. How well they could fight or defend would depend on how much damage had been done to the external systems upon which they rely. I suspect that a WWII gun turret would perform a lot better on visual than radar etc than a Falklands War or later one.

[Panzerknacker]

In this prospect the situation could be much worst.
And do not forget that the Britain ( to the contrast of Argentine) is the Nuclear State.
The further - the bigger.
So any development of the events in a such way could bring for the Argentine only the additional victims - nothing more.



Nuclear attack against the south american continent ?.....http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9933/bduhim3.gifhttp://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9933/bduhim3.gif

I think any damage would be mostly external.

Napalm could destroy radio and radar aerials, gun direction systems, etc which would affect the ship's capacity to fight and defend itself, but I doubt napalm could sink it or even put it at risk of sinking.

Without a hole below the waterline, a ship will continue to float. Napalm could never deliver a hole below the waterline. Or even above it.


Agreed, probably not even a hole but definately destructive agaist the transport ships, the fact is the those does not need to be sink, just put out of action. In the case of destroyers/frigates, if those were unable to launch antiaircraft missiles and let pass the A-4 and mirages undisturbed to attack more calmly the transport ships and british landing troops.....:rolleyes:

[Chevan]

Nucler attack agaist the south american continent ?.....http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9933/bduhim3.gifhttp://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9933/bduhim3.gif

And why not;)
The little firebombing/nucler demonstration could put into the sense the Junta.
If the Agrentine has bagan to drop the napalm to the British transport ships killing the crews, the britains could use the simular means.
I/m sure the USA would close the eyes and let the Britain ( his closes ally and "small brother") to use the forbidden wearpon if the Argentinians did it first.
As for the Nuclear bombing....
If the Nuclear war was possible for a long time in the Europe and USA do you seriously think that the South America should avoid of it?

[Panzerknacker]

Seems definately crazy to me...but what I know ?. :rolleyes:

[tankgeezer]

And why not;)
The little firebombing/nucler demonstration could put into the sense the Junta.
If the Agrentine has bagan to drop the napalm to the British transport ships killing the crews, the britains could use the simular means.
I/m sure the USA would close the eyes and let the Britain ( his closes ally and "small brother") to use the forbidden wearpon if the Argentinians did it first.
As for the Nuclear bombing....
If the Nuclear war was possible for a long time in the Europe and USA do you seriously think that the South America should avoid of it?

I think sometimes Chevan's intent gets lost in translation, if so, this may help. Unless a government was a direct, and immenent nuclear threat to England, or The U.S. there would be no permission to use a device against any country in the Americas. (even Hugo Chavez) Napalm against ships would be more a terror weapon than anything,(unless it was all one had to defend themselves with) so it wouldnt be on our list of things to do, when we had anti ship missiles, and smart bombs to do the job. I'm not English, but I believe they would act about the same, even in the heat of the moment. (Thats my 2 kopecs worth,,:) )

[Nickdfresh]

Argentina did not sign those, so...let them burn.

Actually the use of Napalm was seriously limited buy the Argentine High command for "humanitarian reasons", what a bunch of sissies. :evil:

Only to be used on leftists...:)

[Lone Ranger]

Napalm was actually used, rather attempted to be used, by the Argentine Air Force at Goose Green. It was dropped too far away to be effective, luckily.

Funny how PK seems so keen for the Argentines to use such an inhumane weapon, what was that about war crimes?

[Panzerknacker]

Only to be used on leftists...


Sadly not even against those. The guerrilla was mostly urban.


Napalm was actually used, rather attempted to be used, by the Argentine Air Force at Goose Green. It was dropped too far away to be effective, luckily.

Funny how PK seems so keen for the Argentines to use such an inhumane weapon, what was that about war crimes?


I suppose that all involves the context in wich you use the weapon, not the weapon itself, the british crying about the extremely limited use ( If was used at all) of napalm by the AAF in Malvinas sound s as stupid to me like the Argentines crying about the use of the Beluga BL 755 cluster bomb by the britons.

Even Robacio the commander of the B.I.M 5 was agaist its use...crazy. You simply cant win a war in that way :rolleyes:

For my part I say...toasted it !!

[Lone Ranger]

Its a documented fact that it was used at Goose Green, a fact that has been acknowledged by Argentina - though it should be pointed out that the Goose Green commander had disobeyed orders in preparing and using it.

[Pánzon]

I would like to say, from my position of a newcomer in this forum, very respectufully and knowing that perhaps this will nor gain me much friends.....

Could we keep on exchanging pics about the Malvinas/Falkland conflict? Praise the enormous demonstrations of valour on BOTH sides with respect, exchange little things that are starting to appear 25 years later? In an environment of mutual respect?

Can we forgive and try to understand? can we try to be friends? put the conflict in its time frame and learn why England and Argentina should NEVER have gone to war at the end of the 20th century?

I sincerily do not understand........ I go to England several times a year..... the minute they hear I am an Argie at ANY pub... they never let me pay a drink and we chat a lot about the battle.....

I´ve even been a guest in a RAF / RN base........... I heard nothing more than respect from those people....... proffessional soldiers, pilots..... trainees in the 9th squadron...... at the BAE Systems hawk simmulator building.....:) where I got bored of flying the Hawk simm....... I found nothing but respect from the English so far when discussing the conflict.....

It was a gentlemen war.......

Let us start respecting each other....... why we should be fighting over the lack of vision that our respective leaders had at that time? unable to prevent a war...... among two good countries that have been always friends?

What has to do the guerrilla in the 70´s with the conflict? Who was worst? "Butcher Harris" or Galtieri..... I sincerily would not start mixing things this way....

Let us leave the battles for the futbol or now rugby teams and let us pay homage to the heroes on both sides.... they deserve it....... from the 17 years old kid scared to death but never left his battle station inside the guts of a Frigate without even a pistol to defend himself to the pilots that gave their lives on both sides?

We could learn a lot from each other and since we are "the next generation" it is our responsability to act according to humane thinking.....

Let us forgive each other....... let us exchange greetings and get closer, let the British understand why the Argentines think that the Islands are Argentine and let us understand why they came to recover them...

It is a pitty we can not do it over a beer....... this is the way to talk things....

PICTURES!!!!!!!!!!!

Juan.

[Lone Ranger]

I would like to say, from my position of a newcomer in this forum, very respectufully and knowing that perhaps this will nor gain me much friends.....

I don't know about that, I'm kinda getting to like you.

Could we keep on exchanging pics about the Malvinas/Falkland conflict? Praise the enormous demonstrations of valour on BOTH sides with respect, exchange little things that are starting to appear 25 years later? In an environment of mutual respect?

Amen to that.

Can we forgive and try to understand? can we try to be friends? put the conflict in its time frame and learn why England and Argentina should NEVER have gone to war at the end of the 20th century?

Totally agree.

But I'll tell you one thing that does worry me for the future. It seems like an awful lot of your countrymen seem to think that they only lost the war because the British cheated and that the British did not behave with honour. PK's "war crime" thread has raised an awful lot of hackles round here.

I'll tell you why that worries me for the future, because its in many ways the same attitude that a lot of Germans extremists cultivated after WW1 (that the German army didn't really lose the war). It also worries me that the Argentine Government continues to try and exert pressure on the Islands through many petty little measures, such as denying flights, interfering with the fishing rights, all the political grand standing at Mercosur, OAS etc and acting to stop the Islands participating in the South American games. Because all these petty actions don't build bridges and just acts to further alienate the islanders. Because its only by building bridges that any sort of rapprochement will ever be achieved between the islands and Argentina.

And while the current feelings on animosity linger, and there is a belief that Argentina didn't really lose the war last time, some idiot is going to be tempted to try again.

[Panzerknacker]

Could we keep on exchanging pics about the Malvinas/Falkland conflict? Praise the enormous demonstrations of valour on BOTH sides with respect, exchange little things that are starting to appear 25 years later? In an environment of mutual respect?

The topic is for pictures and the discussion of the pictures posted. And that include the discussion of the use of napalm.

Me parece que todavia no entraste en la dinamica del topic. :roll:


I sincerily do not understand........ I go to England several times a year..... the minute they hear I am an Argie at ANY pub... they never let me pay a drink and we chat a lot about the battle.....


I hope that the argie word is not after the f.... :rolleyes:

PK's "war crime" thread has raised an awful lot of hackles round here.

Is the awful truth.

[Pánzon]

Lone ranger........

Totally agree.

But I'll tell you one thing that does worry me for the future. It seems like an awful lot of your countrymen seem to think that they only lost the war because the British cheated and that the British did not behave with honour. PK's "war crime" thread has raised an awful lot of hackles round here.

I'll tell you why that worries me for the future, because its in many ways the same attitude that a lot of Germans extremists cultivated after WW1 (that the German army didn't really lose the war). It also worries me that the Argentine Government continues to try and exert pressure on the Islands through many petty little measures, such as denying flights, interfering with the fishing rights, all the political grand standing at Mercosur, OAS etc and acting to stop the Islands participating in the South American games. Because all these petty actions don't build bridges and just acts to further alienate the islanders. Because its only by building bridges that any sort of rapprochement will ever be achieved between the islands and Argentina.

And while the current feelings on animosity linger, and there is a belief that Argentina didn't really lose the war last time, some idiot is going to be tempted to try again.

You are just listening to part of the story, the posibilities of my country developing a Hitler like are to be discarded......... I am sure there is some poople that thinks like that, but it is not so in reality a significant ammount...

I do not want nor I will discuss the sovereignity subject over here, I do not think this is the appropiate place. I just want to remember the heroism, the acts of bravery and gallantry......... the flame wars are for different characters than me.

Cheers,

Juan.

[Pánzon]

PK,

I hope that the argie word is not after the f....

Not at all my friend, I think you do not enough Britons............ they respect us a lot......... and they are very friendly....

Buy a ticket and go to England and you will see for yourself.

Cheers,

[Panzerknacker]

Not at all my friend, I think you do not enough Britons............ they respect us a lot......... and they are very friendly....



Nice, it means that some british members here need to learn manners from his countrymans :)



Buy a ticket and go to England and you will see for yours