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Egorka
05-19-2007, 01:55 PM
Hello,

This is a monument in the Churchil park in Copenhagen, Denmark.
Who do you think it commemorates?

The inscription:


"Descendants go forward like waves in the sea
they swell and settle down
But those we have to remember in graves
who died for freedom and peace.

to commemorate the danish ???
who gave their lives for freedom fight 1940 - 1945.

raised 22nd of June 1996 by the Danish State"

RifleMan20
05-19-2007, 10:25 PM
I think its for the defenders of Denmark or also known as Holland maybe also for the american Gis who protected Holland.

1PUK
05-20-2007, 04:00 AM
..... Denmark or also known as Holland

I think you'll find that incorrect, Denmark is not also known as Holland. Holland is another name for Netherlands.

Egorka
05-20-2007, 02:22 PM
I think its for the defenders of Denmark or also known as Holland maybe also for the american Gis who protected Holland.

The Holland part was good. ;)

The monument is for danish freedom fighters. But not all of them, only a part.
So that is the question: what was common for these freedom fighters? They have a distinctive name.

Cuts
05-23-2007, 09:38 AM
Does it commemorate the Danish communists who gave their lives in the fight for freedom 1940-45 by any chance ?

Egorka
05-23-2007, 02:32 PM
Does it commemorate the Danish communists who gave their lives in the fight for freedom 1940-45 by any chance ?

Excellent, Cuts! Yes, Danish Communists. The monuments was raised by the Danish State.

Has it just been a lucky guess? Or you googled it? ;)

Cuts
05-25-2007, 01:32 PM
Excellent, Cuts! Yes, Danish Communists. The monuments was raised by the Danish State.

Has it just been a lucky guess? Or you googled it? ;)

Neither, I have been on Ex there a few times & we had R&R in Copenhagen.
The Resistance Museum is well worth a visit.

RifleMan20
05-25-2007, 05:32 PM
I think you'll find that incorrect, Denmark is not also known as Holland. Holland is another name for Netherlands.

oops sry i guess my teacher told me wrong

Walther
05-25-2007, 10:32 PM
oops sry i guess my teacher told me wrong

I think both you and your teacher should have a look at a map. After all there is another country (Germany) inbetween the Netherlands and Denmark.
BTW, correctly Holland is just a province of the Netherlands (albeit the one where the two capitals Den Haag and Amsterdam are sited). A Dutch friend from Tilburg in the South blows regularly up if somebody confuses the Netherlands with Holland. Historically the Protestant Holland ruled the Catholic south (Province Limburg) and according to my friend up to the end of WW2 the Dutch Catholics were very much treated as second class citizens by the government in Holland.

Jan

Egorka
06-15-2007, 04:07 AM
OK, here a new one!

What is this japanese monument about? It is WW2 related, BTW.

http://pics.livejournal.com/dkphoto/pic/001gsaad.jpg

Gen. Sandworm
06-15-2007, 04:58 AM
OK, here a new one!

What is this japanese monument about? It is WW2 related, BTW.


Kamakaze horses................seriously I have no idea. But the USSR had kamakaze dogs(anti-tank) dogs............ so its a possiblity.

Rising Sun*
06-15-2007, 05:57 AM
General Horii's horse that was lost on Kokoda? If it is supposed to be his horse, the sculptor has had a flight of fancy because it was probably a lousy nag, not much better than a mule.

So, the only other possibility I can think of is one of Emperor Hirohito's white horses "Hatsu Shimo" (First Frost) or "Sirayuki" (White Snow),

Man of Stoat
06-15-2007, 06:03 AM
Excellent, Cuts! Yes, Danish Communists. The monuments was raised by the Danish State.

Has it just been a lucky guess? Or you googled it? ;)

Great. A monument for people who fought to replace one dictatorship with another, hardly fighters for freedom...

With friends like these, it's hardly surprising so many Danish signed up for the Freikorps (there was a serious possibility that Denmark could have ended up on the wrong side of the post-war division line so you hardly had to be a Nazi to want to fight for them)...

Awaits incoming in three... two... one...

Egorka
06-15-2007, 07:46 AM
Great. A monument for people who fought to replace one dictatorship with another, hardly fighters for freedom...

With friends like these, it's hardly surprising so many Danish signed up for the Freikorps (there was a serious possibility that Denmark could have ended up on the wrong side of the post-war division line so you hardly had to be a Nazi to want to fight for them)...

Awaits incoming in three... two... one...

Man of Stoat,

I do not quiet get your point with this post. But I just want to say that Danish Communists, constituting the majority of the Danish freedom fighters in WW2, really saved the face of Denmark at the end of the war.
Danish goverment had distictive cooperation policy (samarbejdspolitik) that the Danish goverment and the King declared back in 1940.

Here is the speech of the Danish prime minister in 2003 blaiming the cooperation policy of Denmark back then: http://www.befrielsen1945.dk/temaer/efterkrigstiden/offentligdebat/kilder/kilde0.html

So the Danes can rightfully say "THANK YOU DANISH COMMUNISTS!"
I think your irony is inappropriate in this case!

Egorka
06-15-2007, 07:50 AM
Kamakaze horses................seriously I have no idea. But the USSR had kamakaze dogs(anti-tank) dogs............ so its a possiblity.

Errhhh.... it is a move in the right direction... ;)

Rising Sun*
06-15-2007, 07:59 AM
So the Danes can rightfully say "THANK YOU DANISH COMMUNISTS!"


Currently, they can say "Thank you, Australia, for assuring our royal line."

'Cos the the Crown Princess is an Aussie. Not a communist. And rather nice. :D

Slideshow and links here http://www.hkhkronprinsen.dk/english.php

Egorka
06-15-2007, 02:33 PM
Currently, they can say "Thank you, Australia, for assuring our royal line."

'Cos the the Crown Princess is an Aussie. Not a communist. And rather nice. :D

Slideshow and links here http://www.hkhkronprinsen.dk/english.php

Right. But there is no monument dedicated to the Princess Mary yet.
Coz sadly, usualy, one should die first for his country to get monument erected.
So lets hope we won't get the Mary's monument in long time. ;)

Well getting back to our sheeps... erhhh... horses. Do you want answer?

Rising Sun*
06-15-2007, 04:45 PM
Well getting back to our sheeps... erhhh... horses. Do you want answer?


Not yet.

Initially I was thinking it's a statue of a particular horse with a WWII link.

Now I'd say it's a statue commemmorating all military horses that died in war, in the Yasukuni Shrine. Along with dog and (homing) pigeon statues for the same purpose.

Egorka
06-15-2007, 05:01 PM
Not yet.

Initially I was thinking it's a statue of a particular horse with a WWII link.

Now I'd say it's a statue commemmorating all military horses that died in war, in the Yasukuni Shrine. Along with dog and (homing) pigeon statues for the same purpose.

Glorifying answer! :)

Statue of an army horse - to pacify the souls of army horses killed in the battlefield. It is the monument to the million fallen horses. In Yasukan museum next to Yasukuni shrine.

More pictures here: http://dkphoto.livejournal.com/22277.html

Rising Sun*
06-16-2007, 08:24 AM
Google has failed me, but I think the reason that the horse, dog and pigeon statues exist is that Shinto treats all animals, including humans, as more or less equal.

I have a vague recollection that one of the essential principles of Shinto which was displaced or suppressed or expunged by the pre-war militarists was 'Peace'.

Egorka
06-16-2007, 03:37 PM
Google has failed me, but I think the reason that the horse, dog and pigeon statues exist is that Shinto treats all animals, including humans, as more or less equal.

I have a vague recollection that one of the essential principles of Shinto which was displaced or suppressed or expunged by the pre-war militarists was 'Peace'.

The quote from the Khabarovsk trial of 1949 on the members of unit 731:


"Question: Are you a Shinto believer?

Answer: Yes.

Question: Your belief is gentle and kind; how can you use people in experiments, instead of rabbits?

Answer: The interests of our mission required this."
Source: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/member/member.html?eo20010605a1.htm

Rising Sun*
06-17-2007, 07:02 AM
The quote from the Khabarovsk trial of 1949 on the members of unit 731:


"Question: Are you a Shinto believer?

Answer: Yes.

Question: Your belief is gentle and kind; how can you use people in experiments, instead of rabbits?

Answer: The interests of our mission required this."
Source: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/member/member.html?eo20010605a1.htm

Do you mean that the Soviets actually tried these people?

What an odd approach.

The Americans did a deal with them for their knowledge.

What on earth possessed the brutal Russkis, the enemies of democracy and freedom and justice, to bring these bastards to account while the democratic, free and just Americans overlooked things like live dissections on American POW's to let the Harbin mongrels off the hook to get the knowledge gained in experiments that America, even in an era where its criminal prisoners were subjected to involuntary medical experimentation of a much lower order, could not have gained.

I suppose this just shows how morally superior the Americans were to the Soviets at war's end, what with Werner von Braun and Gehlen and all. ;) :evil:

Egorka
06-17-2007, 02:44 PM
Do you mean that the Soviets actually tried these people?

What an odd approach.

The Americans did a deal with them for their knowledge.

What on earth possessed the brutal Russkis, the enemies of democracy and freedom and justice, to bring these bastards to account while the democratic, free and just Americans overlooked things like live dissections on American POW's to let the Harbin mongrels off the hook to get the knowledge gained in experiments that America, even in an era where its criminal prisoners were subjected to involuntary medical experimentation of a much lower order, could not have gained.

I suppose this just shows how morally superior the Americans were to the Soviets at war's end, what with Werner von Braun and Gehlen and all. ;) :evil:

I guess Werner von Braun was one of the most innocent ones of those ex nazies.

Regarding the Khabarovsk trial of 1949 and the cover up of the activities of unit 731 by McArthur here are some links:


"The United States and the Japanese Mengele: Payoffs and Amnesty for Unit 731 Scientists" By Christopher Reed (with US document scans). (http://japanfocus.org/products/details/2177)

"The west's Dismissal of the Khabarovsk trial as ‘Communist Propaganda’: Ideology, evidence and international bioethics", Journal of Bioethical Inquiry, April 2004. (http://www.springerlink.com/content/v867726955m712qt/)

"The trial of Unit 731" By RUSSELL WORKING (on Khabarovsk trial). June 5, 2001. The Japan Times. (http://search.japantimes.co.jp/member/member.html?eo20010605a1.htm)

"Japanese Imperial Army Disclosure Act of 1999", Congressional Record: November 10, 1999 (Senate), Page S14533-S14571. Search fo word "Khabarovsk". (http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/1999/11/feinstein.html)

A Preliminary Review: "Studies of Japanese Biological Warfare Unit 731 in the United States" by Tien-wei Wu. (http://www.nesa.org.uk/html/unit_731_-_preliminary_review.htm)