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View Full Version : Boris Yeltsin-How Will History Judge Him?



Digger
04-24-2007, 04:23 AM
Boris Yeltsin, the man who dismantled the Soviet Union died today aged 76. So how will history remember Boris Yeltsin? By any stretch of the imagination he was a pivotal figure in late 20th Century history. Probably more important than his contemporary, US President Bill Clinton.

I'm sure our Russian friends will have some very strong views on Boris Yeltsin.

Regards digger.:)

Rising Sun*
04-24-2007, 04:29 AM
Digger

Glad you started this thread.

I don't know enough about the internal effects in Russia of his activities to make any comment, but I expect that there are some strong views there.

But he was an outstanding and entertaining international drunk. The best since Churchill, but much more visible.

Given what he had on his plate, he had reason to drink.

Digger
04-24-2007, 04:34 AM
Geez, you were quick off the mark RS;) Yes, I'd like to hear from our Russian friends on Boris Yeltsin as I believe the western media often portrayed the bufoonish side of him, over the more serious personna that his countrymen saw.

Regards digger:mrgreen:

Rising Sun*
04-24-2007, 05:39 AM
Geez, you were quick off the mark RS;) Yes, I'd like to hear from our Russian friends on Boris Yeltsin as I believe the western media often portrayed the bufoonish side of him, over the more serious personna that his countrymen saw.

Regards digger:mrgreen:

Mate, I just turned on the marvellous electric internet and there was your post!

I saw a news item on him tonight, summarising his life. He lived through and was centre stage in some extraordinary times in changing the USSR and Russia. I'd forgotten so much of it. And it's not that long ago.

I heard a Radio National interview today with a Chinese (PRC) artist who was reflecting on events since Tianenmin in 1989. He made the point that at some stage after that event, Deng made a major speech saying in effect "China will move to a modern economy and freer state. Come with us and we shall all share in the process and benefits. Try Tianenmin and the protest road again and you will be crushed." The artist went on to make the point that, as the consensus was to move forward together, change in China has been fairly orderly and succcessful while change in the USSR over the same period has been relatively chaotic.

Egorka
04-24-2007, 06:37 AM
The artist went on to make the point that, as the consensus was to move forward together, change in China has been fairly orderly and succcessful while change in the USSR over the same period has been relatively chaotic.
Caotic or anarchic are the words describing most of the 1990th in Russia... I do not want say anything about Yeltsin personaly, but his time has had impression on the lives of people as anarchic and caotic. Time when the some biggest fortunes were made overnight and millions of ordinary people would lose their pension savings to those fortunes.

Rising Sun*
04-24-2007, 07:17 AM
Time when the some biggest fortunes were made overnight and millions of ordinary people would lose their pension savings to those fortunes.

Well, that's how capitalism works. Unfortunately.

Prosperity hasn't come equally to the people in China either.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, everywhere, as usual. But the rich and privileged and their friends in government always tell us how much better off we are, under whatever system they're running.

Bat Mastertson, an American famous from the Wild West era of gunfighting, ended his days as a sports writer on a newspaper. Reflecting on life, in an era when the only refrigeration was ice and only the rich could afford ice from the storehouses in the summer, he wrote:

"There are many in this old world of ours who hold that things break about even for all of us. I have observed, for example, that we all get the same amount of ice. The rich get it in the summertime and the poor get it in the winter."

Panzerknacker
04-25-2007, 09:47 AM
The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, everywhere, as usual


There is something called "middle class" in the capitalist countries, at list in the western ones.

AllHailCesar
04-25-2007, 10:32 AM
There is something called "middle class" in the capitalist countries, at list in the western ones.

To keep it simple.....the trick is holding all extremes in check.

Panzerknacker
04-25-2007, 05:05 PM
Indeed, when more middle class there is in a country healthier is its economy.

AllHailCesar
04-25-2007, 05:14 PM
Indeed, when more middle class there is in a country healthier is its economy.

Bingo!
I think the big problem is how to level the playing field. I guess I'm stating the obvious.

royal744
05-29-2007, 04:42 PM
This is a discussion that might best be led by Egorka and Chevan. I would interested in their impressions.

From the outside looking in, it certainly appeared to be "anarchic and chaotic". Yeltsin was having to make it up as he went along. It's a little like being a passenger in a 747 that is falling out of the sky. The pilot and co-pilot are both incapacitated. The stewardess pulls you out of your seat and yells, "You HAVE TO fly this plane or we are all going to die now!"

That's probably only partially right, because Yeltsin had more direct control over the situation, at least it looked like it.

I don't really agree that what happened was a result of "capitalism" so much as massive theft on a continental scale, sort of like a Mafia run state.

Yeltsin probably doesn't get much credit in the US for the dismantling of the Soviet State because, frankly, his PR is/was not as good as Gorbachev's and Gorby at least appeared to be calm on the surface while Yeltsin appeared to be otherwise.

It would be interesting to get the take of our Russian friends on this.

royal744
05-29-2007, 05:22 PM
Indeed, when more middle class there is in a country healthier is its economy.

Good point. We have the example of Mexico, for instance, which seems to have a quite wealthy upper class, a huge lower class and a rather small middle class. I remember some years ago seeing a story on the television remarking on how difficult it was for people to get consumer credit in Mexico. Without consumer credit at least in the form of credit cards, the US economy would grind to a quick halt, so perhaps that is also a measure of whether or not a middle class exists. This is an interesting topic because there must be many ways of measuring whether or not and how widespread a middle class is in a given society.

Chevan
08-23-2007, 06:21 AM
My appologies guys.
Soory i have missed this thread at that time.
So whay i think about Yeltsin personaly:)
What could i sy about the president of the who conducted by military the brass band being the drunk;)
http://www.informacia.ru/info/elcin2.jpg
What can i say about "first russian democrat" who shoted in the Russian Parliament in 1993 using the tanks?
Waht could a say about man who let the mafia take the control over the state, and who has began the dirty war in Checnij in 1994 at the same time when the other mass media Oligarhs created the fifth-column inside the state.
We have the proverb - speak about dead good or nothing.
I will better keep the silence about Yeltsin.

Rising Sun*
08-23-2007, 08:04 AM
What could i sy about the president of the who conducted by military the brass band being the drunk;)


Churchill was drunk for most of WWII.

He did OK.

Chevan
08-23-2007, 11:42 AM
Churchill was drunk for most of WWII.

He did OK.
Well Churchill at least has won the WW2.
Yeltsin after the Gorbachev finaly losed the Cold war;)

Nickdfresh
08-23-2007, 03:10 PM
Well Churchill at least has won the WW2.
Yeltsin after the Gorbachev finaly losed the Cold war;)

I thought it was Lenin.;)

Nickdfresh
08-23-2007, 03:13 PM
Caotic or anarchic are the words describing most of the 1990th in Russia... I do not want say anything about Yeltsin personaly, but his time has had impression on the lives of people as anarchic and caotic. Time when the some biggest fortunes were made overnight and millions of ordinary people would lose their pension savings to those fortunes.


That's kind of what I recall. It would seem that things went too far too fast and a gradual transition from communism to democratic socialism, rather than the robber-baron-style capitalism of the oligarchs, would have been ideal...