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Digger
04-20-2007, 09:45 PM
Often the words Hitler and insanity are inexorably linked. But was he really insane? i have my views, so i thought we could kick off a discussion with a poll.

Regards digger.

alephh
04-23-2007, 08:34 AM
Interesting to see how to votes will pile up :-D

Personally I don't think he was insane - he could lure down-to-earth strong minded generals of 40 years military experience, as well as secretaries or businessmen without emotions.



_

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
04-23-2007, 08:47 AM
Hitler wasn't totally insane, and if he stopped the war by the time he took France and the lower countries (ie: Holland, Denmark, Belgium, etc.) he would have gone down in history as one of the greatest military stratigists. But he made the worst desicion and it would seal his fate. He declared war on the Soviet Union and the United States. After that, he pratically always made stupid commands, but some were good.

shoogs
04-23-2007, 05:30 PM
totaly agree with ''Wolfgang Von Gottberg''

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
04-23-2007, 06:05 PM
To edit my previous post, I think that if he had taken Italy (Yes, Italy) and Afrika, after his previous Blitzkriegs, I think he would be ONE of the greatest military stratigists in history. Though, other countries would probably find out about his genocide, giving him a bad reputation. I don't think any body would invade, though (Except maybe Israel, but it would be more like poor sabatoer tactics)

Kirsten_Lorraine
04-23-2007, 08:15 PM
i personally think he was an extremely intelligent man, he had charisma, he won people over with the way he delieverd speechs and how enthusiastic he was. The only thing he did wrong was give the british enough time to evacuate otherwise he would have taken all of Britain and won the war, and Germany would continue to be the most powerfull country in the world unless they took a fall like the romans so to answer the question Hitler was sane his views were just not those that many other people would have agreed with.

Croat
04-25-2007, 06:30 AM
Hitler could have won the war,but he messed up with his rasism,and he turned his generaks against himself,no general ever agreed with his theory they all were high educated people with moral rules,they were wery noble people

alephh
04-25-2007, 09:19 AM
If you take a look at the historical numbers about german population and german natural resources you quickly learn one thing: there is not enough natural resources available for Germany. Given any war, it's unbeliable easy to beat germany by blocking Germany getting imported natural resources it absolutely needs.


if he stopped the war by the time he took France and the lower countries he would have gone down in history as one of the greatest military stratigists.

Hitler stated many times that he wanted to create strong independent Germany, only way doing that was of course securing enough natural resources for Germany. Only place within ground access for those natural resources was Soviet Union.

Had he stopped after capturing France, he would have left Germany even more in trouble in the future, because then there would have been even more population in Germany but not (noticeably) more natural resources.

So, looking history from the resources point of view: Hitler would have been biggest moron in the history had he stopped capturing new areas after France was captured.



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Rising Sun*
04-25-2007, 09:59 AM
But was he really insane?

Why is it that getting rid of a book that hasn't been opened for several decades always results in the need for it shortly afterwards?

I put Walter Langer's "The Mind of Adolf Hitler", which was based on a wartime analysis by psychs, and Alan Bullock's "Hitler", in a charity bin recently, along with other relevant texts.

If I had those books I might be able to offer some useful objective comments from people better informed than me.

As it is, I think Hitler was just your standard very successful and therefore quite ruthless politician, which means he had more in common with the average sociopath than with ordinary people. History is, and will be, littered with this type. They're not insane in the sense of being delusional or otherwise out of touch with reality. Just wholly self-centred and incapable of feeling anything for anyone who isn't them or who doesn't support them and their ambitions and ideas.

As the war progressed he undoubtedly became somewhat distrustful and perhaps paronoid in a non-technical sense, which was not unreasonable as, for example, his trusted deputy Hess betrayed him early in the war and other trusted people tried to blow him up later in the war.

The stresses of running his various enterprises, military and otherwise, would have caused anyone severe mental burdens, especially when all his grand plans started unravelling. Overall, he seemed to remain reasonably capable and lucid under all these burdens, legendary stories about chewing carpet and so on nothwithstanding. Dreaming up and trying to execute bad plans isn't necessarily a sign of insanity. If it was, many governments and CEO's in the world would be in asylums, not that that would be a bad thing. :D

AllHailCesar
04-25-2007, 11:51 AM
Why is it that getting rid of a book that hasn't been opened for several decades always results in the need for it shortly afterwards?

I put Walter Langer's "The Mind of Adolf Hitler", which was based on a wartime analysis by psychs, and Alan Bullock's "Hitler", in a charity bin recently, along with other relevant texts.

If I had those books I might be able to offer some useful objective comments from people better informed than me.

As it is, I think Hitler was just your standard very successful and therefore quite ruthless politician, which means he had more in common with the average sociopath than with ordinary people. History is, and will be, littered with this type. They're not insane in the sense of being delusional or otherwise out of touch with reality. Just wholly self-centred and incapable of feeling anything for anyone who isn't them or who doesn't support them and their ambitions and ideas.
As the war progressed he undoubtedly became somewhat distrustful and perhaps paronoid in a non-technical sense, which was not unreasonable as, for example, his trusted deputy Hess betrayed him early in the war and other trusted people tried to blow him up later in the war.

The stresses of running his various enterprises, military and otherwise, would have caused anyone severe mental burdens, especially when all his grand plans started unravelling. Overall, he seemed to remain reasonably capable and lucid under all these burdens, legendary stories about chewing carpet and so on nothwithstanding. Dreaming up and trying to execute bad plans isn't necessarily a sign of insanity. If it was, many governments and CEO's in the world would be in asylums, not that that would be a bad thing. :D

This all makes sense with me. Inteligence and sanity are not the same thing. I'm not very bright....but the voices tell me I'm sane. :)

I think most ulta-famous and ulta-rich tend to lose touch with the reality that most of us know.

Firefly
04-26-2007, 09:26 PM
Often the words Hitler and insanity are inexorably linked. But was he really insane? i have my views, so i thought we could kick off a discussion with a poll.

Regards digger.

Yup, he was madder than a really mad thing that had just been bitten by the maddest rabid mad animal known to madness.

He was a bit mad.....

tankgeezer
04-27-2007, 02:22 AM
[SIZE="4"]I do not believe he was insane, very unstable perhaps, and most likely suffering from a neurological disorder. This may have contributed to his instability and paranoia.

Schwerpunkt
01-24-2008, 11:50 AM
Adolf Hitler was obsessed with the Jewish threat to the Aryan world and being mostly Communist in his mind, they had to be eradicated along with the handicapped, gypsies, and most Slavs be they Hebrew or not.
His military smarts had nothing to do with his state of mind. The man was pure evil, i.e. evil incarnate. He was psychotic to a degree among world leaders perhaps only matched by Iosef Stalin. The same applied to his paranoia. Any paranoid psychotic I believe clinically fits the description of insane. SANE? NOT

kev0253
02-03-2008, 04:17 PM
he was insane ive seen the results of his madness at auchwitz not a nice place at all

overlord644
02-03-2008, 05:52 PM
hitler was probably a likable guy if you knew him personally.....and forgot about the holocaust. If you were to take character traits of hitler (rarely drank, didnt smoke, early riser, afraid of heights) and some of the character traits of Winston Churchill (drank, woke up about noon, smoked) and showed them to an ordinary person (with a limited knowledge of ww2) without any names attached they would probably guess Churchill was the dictator

1000ydstare
02-04-2008, 11:08 AM
i personally think he was an extremely intelligent man, he had charisma, he won people over with the way he delieverd speechs and how enthusiastic he was. The only thing he did wrong was give the british enough time to evacuate otherwise he would have taken all of Britain and won the war, and Germany would continue to be the most powerfull country in the world unless they took a fall like the romans so to answer the question Hitler was sane his views were just not those that many other people would have agreed with.

Don't be confused with the hype on the Blitzkreig.

Hitler didn't give the British enough time to evacuate the beaches of Dunkirk. The men of the British Expeditionary Force and the French Army, fought long and hard to make the time.

There are several Regiments such as the Glosters, Norfolks and Rifles not too mention the Royal Artilery who suffered terrible reprisals by the SS for their staunch refusal to retreat or surrender, French units were similarly slaughtered after capture. It was they who bought the time needed for hundreds of small craft (manned by civialian sailors (or by men of the Naval services)) to lift the French, Belgian, Dutch and British Armies with their lives.

Hitler never ordered a stall in the advance on Dunkirk, he merely deferred the Panzers to another target (Arras I think) and to give them time to re-org and consoldiate ready for a Southern push against the remainder of the French Army. Also the ground around Dunkirk was deemed (initially) as unsuitable for Panzers. The Infantry Divisions (many as yet unblooded in comparison to the Panzer Divisions) and Luftwaffe were to destroy and capture the men on the beaches. The men on the beaches had no respite.

The RAF and French Air forces suffered horrendous losses, protecting the beaches. The RAF alone lost nearly 500 planes, compared to the Luftwaffes near 150.

When it was decided to send the Panzers in, it was more of a desparate attempt to capture the British and allies before they could evacuate. The Dunkirk evacuation, and the "little ships" had not been envisaged by the Germans. They beleived that the men on the beaches would be easily captured, once the ports were destroyed (which was carried out with ruthless abandon).

The idea of picking men out of the water, well. It was prepostorus :p

Only a 1/4 of the men saved were picked up by the "little ships" (some 70,000 men). The remainder were rescued by Destroyers, picking up from "the Mole". WHich was a sea defence made up of sand and rocks in the main, that the Germans either couldn't hit (it was long but quite thin) or was not overly affected by the bombs hitting. I think in places it was only four men wide.

The 51st (Highland) Brigade were left behind to cover the retreat, and assist the remaining French. Many men were killed by the vengeful SS, who incidentally didn't do much of the fighting at this point.

comradesinarms
02-14-2008, 07:36 AM
No he was a Genius! He took a country on the verge of extinction and built it up to become one of the worlds strongest econominal countrys to date! in a few years! His military strategys were brilliant, the only reason why he lost the war was not because of bad strategys, it was because the world were beggining too adapt to the blitzkrieg tactic he and his generals had invented(which was another storke of genius, this is still a tactic was use today) the soviets were growing desperate so used all of their resources to create this vast and amazing army! the americans fighting along side the canadians, british, polish. 5 countrys against one squeezing your flanks! your not going to win are you? :)

also Hitler was a decent man, he loved children (in the right way not the micheal jackson way), he loved animals especially his dog, he adored his mother, and was, as far as i know a decent man.

he was not phsychotic, he had parkinsons disease (i can not quite remember what type)
which he got from exposure to mustard gas during the first world war. This disease started off by just affecting hi nervous system, causing him back problems and making his left arm twitch. This eventually along with the prospect of loosing th war, created a desparate man out of him, and eventually caused him to loose his conscience and irrational thought.

In my book Hitler was one of the greatest men to live and help the world to be where it is today.

just my opinion :)

Firefly
02-14-2008, 07:02 PM
Interesting post. How does this view marry up with his actions? He exterminated in no particular order, Gypsies, homosexuals, Jews, the mentally disabled and infirm, communists, democrats and even fellow Nazis. Hitlers world would have been a land where Germans ruled over subject serf peoples.

Doesnt sound that great to me....

comradesinarms
02-15-2008, 03:40 AM
yeh i know he slaughtered all thease people fair enough! but who thought up the final solution? Not hitler as most people believe! it was himmler! who was in charge of all the death squads and overall the evil SS? Himmler!

Himmler was the evil f*cker! if it wasn;'t for him Hitler would've lasted a bit longer! The final solution woudln't of been dreamt up! Hitlers idea was to use them to mass produce things for the germans or deport them! Not kill them!

He killed fellow nazis because they betrayed him in some form or another! And anyway Stalin murdered all of his high ranking generals in fear that they would try and kill him! that how much confidence Stalin had in him self! And the fact that hbe slaughtered milions of his own people for one bloody city! and some of the oders he sent out were worst than Hitler! If an officer would fail in an objective he was to kil himself! im sorry but noone ever slates that guy he was a f*cking lunatic!

--Hitlers world would have been a land where Germans ruled over subject serf peoples.--

Not england mate! he had the upmost respect for the english people! being able to hold out through te first world war! and being that at the time most of our goverment were nazis aswell! (did you know that half of the royal family once claimed they were also Nazis!) Lord Bath is a nazi! He didn't hate everybody you know, he only hated those of a different religion, lol and Communists! and what a supprise! most of the worlds population hate different religions to the point where we go to war for it! and we all hate communist! especailly the wonderful Americans!

Hitlers ideal still lives today! everyone world wide belives in certain points oof what he said whether you hate the fact england is swarming with immigrants! lol (cant really say much there considering im half German!) or whether you hate unemployment!(usually because of the immagrants) or whether you hate the muslims! The fact we hae to follow the bully of the world around! or simply just like to moan alot! :)

And in all fairness quite alot of people still hate homosexuals! and the mentally ill...well.

rant over! :)

1000ydstare
02-15-2008, 04:15 AM
comradesinarms. What did you put on your cornflakes this morning? Crack? PCP? LSD? Hitler may or may not have been insane but you are clearly an imbecile.

Hitler did indeed bring a practically bankrupted country (the worst part of which was helped by Hitler, his crazy idea of just printing more money in response to the countries poverty) back up from its knees.

From the very off, this was managed by blaming and ostracising a small portion of the country (ie the Jews).

Many Jews left Germany at this time, because they saw the writing on the wall, Einstein was one of them. Hitler was FULLY aware of what was happening in the camps. It may shock you to realise, the man was a control freak. It was HIS signature on the FINAL SOLUTION. Others may have organised it, Hitler was the one who started it. He had a pathological hatred of Jews for years.

One of the reasons that Germany lost was because Hitler insisted on having his fingers in everything. Germany Generals came up with the scenarios (incidentally Blitzkreig's operational concept was invented by the British, but perfected by the Germans) but Hitler always had the last word. His word was often the word that caused the defeat of the Germans.

For example, when the RAF was on its knees during the Battle of Britain who, in a fit of pique, gave the order to start bombing the cities? In retaliation for Goerings famous proclaimation that not one bomb would land on Berlin? Giving the RAF the chance to regroup and rebuild?

The Blitzkreig strategies were not copied by others, parts may have influenced the Allies, ie Aircraft working with ground troops, Panzers with Infantry. But the methods used by the Allies were different to the Blitzkreig. Not only that, but the Germans were lucky with Blitzkreig. Had they been bogged in, they would have suffered in the inital stages of the war. Blitzkreig only worked against underequipped forces. Luckily for the Nazi's France, Holland, Belgium and the Brits were all ill equipped in relation to the technology of the day. After years of underspending by their governments.

Further to the war technology, Hitler often gave money and supplies to the ideas that appealled to him, then forgot about them when something else came along. Because he controlled everything, the original idea would be starved of resources, as noone would order in the help the project would need.

Not a bad thing, many of the weapons at the end of the war (V1, V2, America Bomber, jets, etc) would have been on the battlefront sooner had he made prper provisions for their R&D.

The Russians were indeed pushing all they had to the front, but then you have to realise that so had the Germans. There were more German soldiers on the front with Russia at hte start of the war than on the West against the French, Dutch, Belgian and British.

Hitler had won WW2. It was just his stupidity to push past the detente and carry on engaging Britian and then declare war on Amercia.

His respect for the British was not quite as you say. He respected us, and even copied some of our more treasured ways (Hitler Jugend was Scouts), however, he would have gutted our country like a fish, had he landed. His preliminary plans would have seen thousands executed, for being at OxBridge, being int he Masons... etc.

Hitler, probably slowed down the world we live in. After his little day in the sun, half of Europe was under a tyranical nut job (Stalin) who stiffled development in the USSR. Likewise, he would have been deposed soon enough had the war not made him a hero and allowed him to strengthen his strangle hold on Russia.

The western part of Europe was in debt,a nd had to rebuild after the war. Slowing down our development. That is why America is the power house it is today.

I am not even going to dignify the rest of your post with an answer. You appear to have an axe to wield against immigrants, homosexuals and the mentally ill.

However, the ways of Nazi Germany are not neccesarily the best ways to deal with todays problems. They had a tendancy (right from the off set) of involving the removal of rights from minorities of the community.

1000ydstare
02-15-2008, 04:20 AM
Not england mate! he had the upmost respect for the english people! being able to hold out through te first world war! and being that at the time most of our goverment were nazis aswell! (did you know that half of the royal family once claimed they were also Nazis!) Lord Bath is a nazi! He didn't hate everybody you know, he only hated those of a different religion, lol and Communists! and what a supprise! most of the worlds population hate different religions to the point where we go to war for it! and we all hate communist! especailly the wonderful Americans!

Hitlers ideal still lives today! everyone world wide belives in certain points oof what he said whether you hate the fact england is swarming with immigrants! lol (cant really say much there considering im half German!) or whether you hate unemployment!(usually because of the immagrants) or whether you hate the muslims! The fact we hae to follow the bully of the world around! or simply just like to moan alot!

And in all fairness quite alot of people still hate homosexuals! and the mentally ill...well.

rant over!

Utter drivel.

My bold, Britain would have been subjected to the same treatment as all other countries. The Gestapo and SS would have removed all those who opposed them, set up a puppet state and deported and exterminated Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, etc.

Britain would not have been spared.

comradesinarms
02-15-2008, 04:40 AM
Hitler actually attempted to make peace with us countless of times! He gave us the option!
he did not want to rape our country! he didn't want to bomb us! (at the start of the war) the only reason why in the end he got harsher and harsher with us,. was simoply because he hated Churchill! he loved Chamberlaine but hated chruchill.

And did you know we had a concentration camp on the Isle of man! and who did we put in there? Illegal Aliens! Jews, Immagrants And political figures that opposed our goverment!

Yeah he signed the final solution off, and he hated the Jews ... understandably!
(now dont judge me here, just please read and try to understand)
Your a kid, you love our mother dearly, she ends up dying with cnacer and the person who tells you is a Jew. Then you fail to get into art school, and coincidently the head of the school . . . is a jew, you then leave for munich because your finding it impossible to get a job becasue of the Jewish immagrants swarming through the country.
you get drafted into the army to fight in WW1, you get promised a iron cross from your officer if you carried out a specific mission and succeed and then when you do so nearly loosing your life, the officer doesn't cough up the medal, and geuss what he's a Jew. BTW he eventually got the medal by bitching about it and making the officer feel like a twat!:)

the point im trying to make was he hated Jews for mainly these reasons, throughout his life Jew's signalled nothing but bad news for him, if the same happened to anyone they'd feel the same.

the same thing still happens today! Your typical warehouse worker or (working class) does not like foriegners and immigrants, simply for the fact it is hard to get a warehouse job or similar because they are all taken up by Immigrants, and that is the truth no matter how much people try to cover it in sugar.

If you kept on getting put throuh shit and it always seemed that the person doing it was a specific race, colour oor creed then eventually you would end up thinking they were scum!

now just to clear it up, i in no way condone the acts carried out by the nazi party on the Jews and other innocents they murdered, but i an slightly understand as ot why he hated them so much and if you read this and are able to judge then you are simply a narrow minded fool!

thanks

1000ydstare
02-15-2008, 05:17 AM
Hitler actually attempted to make peace with us countless of times! He gave us the option!
he did not want to rape our country! he didn't want to bomb us! (at the start of the war) the only reason why in the end he got harsher and harsher with us,. was simoply because he hated Churchill! he loved Chamberlaine but hated chruchill.

And did you know we had a concentration camp on the Isle of man! and who did we put in there? Illegal Aliens! Jews, Immagrants And political figures that opposed our goverment!

Yeah he signed the final solution off, and he hated the Jews ... understandably!
(now dont judge me here, just please read and try to understand)
Your a kid, you love our mother dearly, she ends up dying with cnacer and the person who tells you is a Jew. Then you fail to get into art school, and coincidently the head of the school . . . is a jew, you then leave for munich because your finding it impossible to get a job becasue of the Jewish immagrants swarming through the country.
you get drafted into the army to fight in WW1, you get promised a iron cross from your officer if you carried out a specific mission and succeed and then when you do so nearly loosing your life, the officer doesn't cough up the medal, and geuss what he's a Jew. BTW he eventually got the medal by bitching about it and making the officer feel like a twat!:)

the point im trying to make was he hated Jews for mainly these reasons, throughout his life Jew's signalled nothing but bad news for him, if the same happened to anyone they'd feel the same.

the same thing still happens today! Your typical warehouse worker or (working class) does not like foriegners and immigrants, simply for the fact it is hard to get a warehouse job or similar because they are all taken up by Immigrants, and that is the truth no matter how much people try to cover it in sugar.

If you kept on getting put throuh shit and it always seemed that the person doing it was a specific race, colour oor creed then eventually you would end up thinking they were scum!

now just to clear it up, i in no way condone the acts carried out by the nazi party on the Jews and other innocents they murdered, but i an slightly understand as ot why he hated them so much and if you read this and are able to judge then you are simply a narrow minded fool!

thanks

You strike me as an idiot. Go away, and read and learn.

The concentration camp on the Isle of Man (there were others) was what it was. A concentration camp, a camp where a number of people were concentrated. Not quite the same as the Nazi version. The people sent there were those whose loyalty the British couldn't be sure of. They were sorted and sifted in the camp and the vast majority of these were realeased. These included 1,000s of Jews who were on the run from Germany and Italy.

Incidentally a POW camp is also a concentration camp. The image conjoured up by the word is generally the German version, where killings, punishment beatings and ill treatment was routine.

Are you going to tell me now that the British INVENTED concentration camps? First used by the British in the Boer War to intern the hostile Boers?

Hitler liked Chamberlain? of course he would. He backed down to him at every turn but I doubt they were friends.

Hitler NEVER offered a peace agreement with Britain. He offered surrender terms which would have achieved HIS aims, but not OURs.

He wanted British capitualation, not peace with us.

Your drivel about hating Jews blah blah is retarded. I wont even go in to it.

comradesinarms
02-15-2008, 05:30 AM
Like i said narrow minded mate, that is exactly why he began to het the Jews and if you open your f*cking eyes you will see what im saying is true. Acually i think you'll find you are wrong about the surrender terms, he approached a number of time offereing peace! and yes also surrender later in the war.

The peace terms were firmly rejected by Churchill because of course our storng diplomatic relations between FVrance, and Poland ntherefore he could not except! And ill think you'll find he was slated for it! until he finally brouht us to victory!

You ask me to go away and read when your view are so typically narrow, your believe in what is dropped in front of your eyes by the countries who fouight against the Nazi's not from the eyes of the Axis. So i bet that if you do enough research you will eventually find that quite alot of your weak views will be smashed.

thankyou for the insult, it was much appreciated.

pdf27
02-15-2008, 05:43 AM
CIA, I was thinking of banning you for being bats**t insane, but now I think I'll keep you around for the amusement factor.

Everyone else: Watch and Shoot, Watch and Shoot ;)

comradesinarms
02-15-2008, 05:46 AM
glad to be of some service :)

1000ydstare
02-15-2008, 06:03 AM
Mong child,

I actually live in Germany. I would point out I see a fair few things from their point of view.

What you talk about is fine, if it is just one man hating a group of people. Yes, he may even find a group of people who hate the same group of people.

Now expand that to not only a whole country but also several other countries buying that hatred and setting about an industrial scale extermination policy. A policy which was in the Nazi parties goals from the very outset. Not an idea that they stumbled on through the war.

I think it is now time for me to say. Stop with the posting of drivel. Post your views, backed up by sources that can show your views are based on fact. And that these views are not just some idiotic brain fart.

For example.

The peace offers to Britain and France were made. However at no time did Hitler say that HE would back off from Poland (for example). It is highly likely that such a move would have prevented the War from starting (certainly in '39). Hitlers invasion of Poland is what caused the war to start.

His peace offers were along the lines of, Ok, we wont fight Britian and France, we have the French territories that we want returned to us (the Saar), Britain was accused of starting the war.

In the following extract from a German propaganda guide (for propagandaists) the Brits are....


My efforts for a German-English understanding were no less strong, indeed I wanted friendship between Germany and England. I have never opposed British interests. Unfortunately, I had regularly to deal with English assaults on Germany's interests, even in areas that were of no significance at all to England. A goal of my life has been to bring the two nations together, both from reason and sympathy. The German people supported me in these endeavors. My efforts failed only because of a distressing enmity on the part of some British statesmen and journalists who did not conceal their aim, which we cannot understand, to wage war against Germany once again at the first opportunity.

The less factual foundations these men had, the more they sought to conceal themselves with empty phrases and claims. I still believe even today that true peace in Europe and the world can result only when Germany and England are in agreement. This conviction has often led me in the past to attempt to reach an understanding. If it does not happen, it is really not my fault.
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/rim1.htm

This speach dated 6th Oct 1939, he wants peace with Britain and yet at this time in Poland (Britains ally, the attacking of which brought Britain in to the fray) the Germans were still invading.

Whilst the return of land taken from the Germans after WW1 can be seen as a fair request. Naked aggression to countries in the East was not. Poland had land that was stripped from Germany, but this was not given back, it was taken. And then some.

Britian was never likely to back down to Germany, when its ally was being attacked.

If anything, Britain and France were the ones going for peace more. As neither honoured pacts to attack Germany if Poland was attacked, but instead chose to open dialogues with Germany.

Had France and Britain hammered Germany at this time, it is highly likely that the War would not have lasted as long as it id or caused the destruction that it did.

Look at it from what ever angle you want. Germany was the aggressor, despite the fact taht up until that point many countries had been giving them what htey wanted. The Germans had NO claim on the eastern countries they decided they wanted as Leibensraum. Nor on the peoples they decided were sub-human.

Again all of this was known at the time. For years the Germans had executed those with mental health problems, and persecuted and incarcarated Jews, Homesexuals and others.

The Final solution didn't begin in 1939. It had been going on for years.

comradesinarms
02-15-2008, 06:17 AM
I know the final solution began (kind of) in 1933 before hindenrberg was even dead! Hindenberg din't want Hitler to become chancellor becasue of this fact! Becasue he was persecuting the jews and attacking people who opposed him (well the SA were)
This is why the knight of the long knifes happened! because he wanted to kill of the SA as they were holding him back and would not back down even tho he had asked them! countles of times (well he asked Rohm) But you (in a way) have just backed up my peace offering thing, when at first you opposed it! i said the germanby offered peace and also ended up reqeusting surrenders. I also said britain decline due to their strong diplomatic relations with poland and france.

Rising Sun*
02-15-2008, 06:32 AM
comaradesinarms

My dear chap,

You have no idea how pleased Dr Wellows and I were to discover your highly original posts on this august site.

As you no doubt know, Dr Wellows is rather good at military history, with a little expertise in the last great unpleasantness which has faded from the popular mind but which, fortunately, is grasped with unusual acuity by a handful of incisive intellects with broad knowledge such as yours.

Dr Wellows and I sensed another glittering streak of originality in your posts, which was confirmed when we showed them to Professor Marguerite Overall (Founder of the Hirsute Institute, University of Manchester, 1977), and currently the Director of the Bogan Senter for Rashonal Inglish. She saw in your defiant refusal to conform with the dictatorial rules of conventional spelling, punctuation and grammar what she described as: The shining dawn of a new era in English. She wrote it for us as: the shynyng dorn of a gnu eara in Inglish. She wonted us to tell u that, so that u no her werd is tru.

It seems that Dr Wellows and Professor Overall are trying to suppress their competitive desires to attract you to their respective organs of research, aware as they are of your desire to enter university at the age of twenty five with your impressive history of educational achievements.

As it happens, we have a scholarship on offer for terribly bright people in your, and I trust you will forgive me for venturing this, perhaps not awfully well off position but with your potential to throw new light on military history. It is the Churchill Greece and Malaya Scholarship, which focuses on the failures of commanders in the field to achieve simple military victories as planned by their much more perceptive and militarily able commanders, such as Churchill and, as you have perceptively recognised, Hitler.

While I realise you will be somewhat exhausted after being inundated with similar offers from other institutions which constantly trawl the internet for original scholarship such as yours, Dr Wellows and Professor Overall and I should be rather pleased if you could find the time to put yourself forward as a candidate for the Churchill scholarship.

I don’t want to get your hopes up as there is quite fierce competition for the scholarship, as someone of your erudition would be well aware, but I’m afraid the fact is that you’ll be competing with the likes of last year’s winner, Pyotry Zkrtylnkski, whose seminal doctoral thesis ‘How Rumania Torpedoed France’s Defence of Poland’ is causing an almost unbearable frisson of excitement in our common room.

Should you be kind enough to grace us with your consideration as a site for the expansion of your thought and knowledge, I should be grateful if you could drop me a line confirming your interest.


Vivian Hoare-Pugesley (Colonel, Rtd)
Registrar
Oxbridge Centre for Collaborative Military History

Panzerknacker
02-15-2008, 07:20 AM
Hitlers ideal still lives


Sure, in people like you.

Ok, we have enough of this troll.

pdf27
02-15-2008, 08:40 AM
Spoilsport :p

B-17engineer
02-16-2008, 01:45 PM
I just think like the poll says he was Unstable not completly insane........

1000ydstare
02-16-2008, 02:59 PM
why was Oxbridge registrar banned?

Major Walter Schmidt
02-17-2008, 09:48 AM
I say he was on the edge of madness at first (many geniuses are slightly mad) but slid into madness. How could a sane man make Messerschmitt make Me262 BOMBERS and not intercepters? Why would a sane man do the battle of the bulge? How could a guy propose the "land-cruiser"! (Albert Speer killed that project)

32Bravo
02-17-2008, 03:23 PM
In my opinion, in order to get a clear picture of Hitler's state of mind during WW2, one must, in the first instance, examiine his life up to the point of him becoming leader of the Nazi party, and not just from that point onwards.

There are those that believe that what we become, is a direct result of our experiences - cause and effect.

I'm certain that today, Hitler would have been diagnosed a Manic-depressive suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder - and probably one or two other ailments, to boot- and prescribed drugs and therapy.

As for his charisma etc. it is probably a symptom of his burning ambition, his driving force.

The following transcript was drafted by Hitler from a hospital bed while being treated for wounds recieved in battle during WW1. Hitler is famous for being an Austrian and serving in the trenches as a Corporal during WW1, but how many new that he was a 'Runner'? A Runner's life expectancy in the trenches was about two weeks. Hitler was a runner for months. He volunteered for the job, as did the majority of runners, for it was considered worth the risk in order to get down below ground in the Commanding Officer's bunker, a safe reprieve from the shelling.

"When the old gentlemen began to tell us that we were throwing ourselves on the mercy of the Victors, I could stand it no longer! Everything went black before my eyes! I tottered and groped my way back to the dormitory; through myself on my bunk, and dug my burning head in the blankets and pillows!

And so it had all been in vain! In vain! The hunger and thirst of months which were often endless! In vain! The two million who died!

Would not the graves of all the hundreds of thousands open, those who, with faith in the Fatherland, have marched forth never to return? Would they not open and send the blood and mud covered heroes back as spirits of vengance to the homeland which had cheated them with such mockery?

Was this the meaning of the sacrifice which the German mother made to the Fatherland when with sore heart she let her best loved boys march off never to see them again?

Hatred grew in me! Hatred for those responsible for this deed! In the days that followed my own fate became known to me - I would go into politics!"

pdf27
02-17-2008, 04:22 PM
why was Oxbridge registrar banned?
No idea - happened while I was away on SPTA for the weekend and by the time I got back and was vaguely humanoid again he was unbanned. 'Twas a tad chilly this weekend.

Ashes
03-22-2008, 12:59 AM
Psychopath..... A person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy.


In 1943, Office of Strategic Services (OSS) asked Dr. Walter C. Langer, a psychoanalyst based in New York, to develop a “profile” of Adolf Hitler. What the OSS wanted was a behavioral and psychological analysis for the construction of strategic plans, given various options.

Dr. Langer used speeches, Hitler's book Mein Kampf, and interviews with people who had known Hitler. This culminated in the presentation of an 135-page profile of possible behavioural traits of Hitler, and his possible reactions to the idea of Germany losing World War 2. Dr. Langer’s profile noted that Hitler was meticulous, conventional, and prudish about his appearance and body. He was robust and viewed himself as a standard-bearer and trendsetter. He had manic phases, yet took little exercise. He was in good health, so it was unlikely he would die from natural causes, but he was deteriorating mentally. He would not try to escape to a neutral country. Hitler always walked diagonally from one corner to another when crossing a room, and he whistled a marching tune. He feared syphilis, germs and moonlight, and loved severed heads.

The profile also pointed out Hitler's oedipal complex, with the effect being the need to prove his manhood to his mother, and his coprolagnia and urolagnia. He detested the learned and the privileged, but enjoyed classical music, vaudeville, and Richard Wagner's opera. He showed strong streaks of sadism and liked circus acts that were risky and dangerous. He tended to speak in long monologues rather than have conversations. He had difficulty establishing close relationships with anyone. Since he appeared to be delusional, it was possible that his psychological structures would collapse in the face of imminent defeat. The most likely scenario was that he would commit suicide, although there was a possibility that he would order a henchman to perform euthanasia.

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/documents/osstitle.htm

bwing55543
03-31-2008, 08:14 PM
Often the words Hitler and insanity are inexorably linked. But was he really insane? i have my views, so i thought we could kick off a discussion with a poll.

Regards digger.

Well, I don't know if someone who was responsible for the deaths of 6,000,000 innocent people can really qualify as sane.

snebold
04-01-2008, 11:44 AM
bwing, that´s not an argument.

Schmidt:
The "Battle of the Bulge" project was not borne out of sudden insanity. It´s near the end of the read thread that ran through all Hitler´s major political and military considerations; call it an all or nothing complex. Saving a few (million) Germans from the Soviet´s in the east coundn´t mean less to him. Only what he saw as the best (however ridiculiously hopeless) shot at winning the war mattered to him.
He had trained himself to see possibilties and stubbornly believe in victory, no matter what. One might say that this trait hardened into something that excluded a clear view of realities? Insanity?
Certainly his spring 1945 idea of sending Pz.Div´s to defend Prague, since "whoever holds Prague, controls central Europe"* suggests that he continued to pursue visions of victory into the realm of his own private world. (*or something like that, -correct me if I´m wrong here)

(Albert Speer had an interesting conversation with Hitler (according to Speer (fall 1944 I think)), in which Speer claimed that he found for the first time, that Hitler knew the war was lost, and had known for a long time. December 1941?, February 1943?, Speer speculated. Anyhow, Hitler demanded faith in victory from Speer, if Speer was to keep his job).

The place where I really think the "chain jumps off" for Hitler, it does so for most of the nazi elite: it´s the fixation on the "solution of the jewish problem", as an integral part of project Win the War. I can simply not follow them. Everytime the outside world acted, or seemed to act more hostile to Germany a reaction immediately followed within Germany in form of some excalation in the repression of jews, culminating in 1941, when Hitler publicly gave hint´s to what would happen to the "European jewry" if the USA entered the war.
That something so unimportant for the war effort (or rather, quite detrimental to the war effort), ended up being viewed as instrumental in winning the war, shows that Hitler (and several other nazis) lived through the WWII in a serious delusion on at least one matter.

Jagdtiger
04-13-2008, 11:16 PM
Hitler was hands down out of his mind. First of all, he thought that he was an infallible military commander even though the only military experience he had was fighting as a corporal in WWI. Furthermore, it takes someone insane to persecute the Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, etc. the way he did. Also, at the end of the war he was unwilling to accept the fact that the war was over, sending Keitel to speak to Donitz about recovering oilfields for long-ranging operations. There are just too many things which make Hitler insane to speak about.

Dark1995
04-14-2008, 08:53 PM
Of course he's insane he had to be to start a global war

HG
04-25-2008, 04:50 AM
I think Hitler had a good idea when it came to brining Germany back up and get back what belonged to Germany, but the Jew factor, the Millitary build up and the dictatorship was not a good thing. Look at what power does to people. They start with great things but end up destroying everything because they want power, look at Africa and other countries in the world.

Yes he did go insane because his power got less and less and he was not as great as he was made out to be. Yes the Nazis did have other stuff that made them evil, but the whole vision of Hitler to bring Germany back up from the ashes of WW1 was great and the people saw a light at the end of the tunnel, but we all know what happened.

Jagdpanther
05-12-2008, 01:59 AM
aren't all failed artists who paint scenes that never have people in them insane

diverdoc
05-21-2008, 10:24 PM
hitler exhibits many symptoms of nuero-syphilis, a disorder he is known to have suffered from for many years. and yes, it leads to insanity. generally, the textbooks say it is now treatable with penacyline, but its rare,a nd the cases i have seen, the treatment really made no difference. to reach the neuro stage, you have to be infected over 25 to 30 years.

B5N2KATE
05-24-2008, 01:26 AM
Easy to call anybody insane AFTER the fact. Not easy to label somebody in this manner while they are still alive and kicking.

Had Germany won a victory that ended the war in 1918, Adolphus Hitler would have been nothing more than a contented Austrian war veteran, living on a state pension and turning out the occasional watercolor to supplement his income. Europe may well have been much better off, for the Great War was directly from the policies of Britain's Grey government and British paranoia about the rest of Europe combining to isolate England. A German victory in the Great War would have meant no Holocaust, no Israel, no pot-boiling Middle East and no need for the rise of Western European Fascism.

Like it or not, the Third Reich was a product of the Treaty of Versailles. England was the only Monarchy in Europe to survive the 14-18 confrontation. Significant? I should say so!

B5N2KATE
05-24-2008, 01:41 AM
As for Hitler infected with Syphillus, sources conflict. The most prevalent is "Putzi" Hanfstaegel, who made the accusation when his welcome had run out and from the safety of the United States, where he worked long and hard to bring down Hitler's name. The Strasser Brothers (Gregor and Otto) propagated this rumor, resulting in Gregors demise during the Rohm Affair. Adolf's last Doctor WAS originally a VD specialist (Theo Morell), but he was also a "quack" with a vested interest in drug manufacturing, much of which he experimented with using Hitler as a "guinea-pig". Apart from that we only have one other source from Hitler's time in Vienna as to his contraction of Syph (another resident of the Gasthaus), but it's about as unsubstantiated as it can be. Adolf was not known for frequenting "houses of ill-repute", and his friend from the Vienna days, August Kubciek ("Gustl") is the best source of all, and he says that Hitler's contraction of Syph was "propaganda". Adolf spent much of his time in Vienna staring from a distance at a woman known to history as "Stephanie", writing her poems and fantasizing that he could communicate with Stephanie telepathically.

Fennica
05-24-2008, 03:51 AM
Hitler wasn't totally insane,I'd say he had serious mental instability.
-Which resulted into compleat insanity in the end of WW2, after serious mental pressure.
One only needs to see all the super weapons to which he gave the go-ahead, to understand that all was not at home.



and if he stopped the war by the time he took France and the lower countries (ie: Holland, Denmark, Belgium, etc.) he would have gone down in history as one of the greatest military stratigists.Danmark was only taken to ensure Ore transportation, the same goes with Norway.
-As always, resources were the key.

And it is healty to remember that highly competent military proffessionals were the ones who did the thinking and planning.
Not so much Hitler, but well trained and confident German troopers were the key to success, along with doctrine of combined arms.


But he made the worst desicion and it would seal his fate. He declared war on the Soviet Union and the United States. After that, he pratically always made stupid commands, but some were good.The balance of war was shifted as Nazis took over the chain of commands. Numerous idiotic orders ensured German defeat and surprise was how long they could keep on fighting.
You'll see how fanatism is not on par with proffessionalism.

Rising Sun*
05-24-2008, 04:54 AM
A German victory in the Great War would have meant no Holocaust, no Israel, no pot-boiling Middle East and no need for the rise of Western European Fascism.

Welcome to the forum. I've enjoyed your well informed and well expressed posts in this and other threads.

Regarding the quote above, I'm not sure that something like fascism wouldn't have arisen even if Germany had won in Western Europe.

The war related causes would certainly have been absent, and the post-war problems which made the Italian and German fascists attractive to a lot of people would also have been absent, but the anti-communist element would still have been there.

This assumes that the October Revolution or something like it still occurred and saw Russian communism follow pretty much the course it did, which like everything else in these speculations is highly debatable as that revolution was inextricably linked with WWI.

There is also the question of how non-fascist governments would have reacted to the rise of Russian communism. The Czar's overthrow had an enormous impact on the various monarchies and governments in Europe and provoked a determination to resist communism to preserve themselves. It's conceivable that the anti-communist elements of fascism would have arisen in Western European governments even if Germany had won. Spain illustrates the point by being neutral in WWI; largely unaffected by it apart from making some useful national profits; but still the focus for political and ultimately military conflict between the fascists and socialists and communists.

Even if Germany had won, there were still social, economic and political factors which encouraged communist agitation in Western Europe, ably assisted by the COMINTERN and local communists.

You are undoubtedly correct about the results in the Middle East as there would have been no need for the Balfour Declaration and the subsequent Jewish migration to Palestine it produced between the wars, with the attendant problems and then the consequences of the Holocaust. This assumes that a German victory in Western Europe resulted in a cessation of hostilities with Turkey. If so, the Ottoman Empire would probably have tottered on for a few more decades, maybe a lot longer, and the Middle East would be a very different place now.

You are also undoubtedly correct about the Holocaust being avoided, but there is a possibility that the prominence of Jews in the various Russian revolutionary and communist movements would have combined with long standing European antipathy towards Jews to produce another wave of oppression or even pogroms. But nothing even remotely like the institutionalised death factories the Nazis introduced, nor the death toll.

B5N2KATE
05-24-2008, 05:10 AM
Thanks Rising Sun....look forward to many more from me!

Ww2 afficiendo wishing to expand my knowledge! You guys look like you can help greatly!

Warpig
05-26-2008, 03:21 PM
He was a kind caring and stable person, he only gassed milions of people because he had a bad day, anyone can have a bad day.

Major Walter Schmidt
05-26-2008, 09:45 PM
:shock:WTH?????:shock:
Yes, he was probably a kind (to some people) and caring (to some people) but a bad day??? WTH?

Warpig
05-27-2008, 01:31 PM
:shock:WTH?????:shock:
Yes, he was probably a kind (to some people) and caring (to some people) but a bad day??? WTH?

Well a few bad days, maybe a year or two.

Major Walter Schmidt
05-27-2008, 03:33 PM
He was mentaly unstable to say the least in the later years of his life. He was shaking all the time..

Warpig
05-27-2008, 04:18 PM
He was mentaly unstable to say the least in the later years of his life. He was shaking all the time..

He was a misunderstood pacifist.

Major Walter Schmidt
05-27-2008, 04:26 PM
are you joking or are you a troll?:confused::confused:

Warpig
05-27-2008, 04:49 PM
are you joking or are you a troll?:confused::confused:

I'm neither, Hitler was a messiah of peace.

Major Walter Schmidt
05-27-2008, 05:06 PM
Of course. He started WWII and killed a bunch of minorities.:roll:.

Warpig
05-29-2008, 03:22 PM
Of course. He started WWII and killed a bunch of minorities.:roll:.

He did not, they fell down the stairs.

Rising Sun*
05-29-2008, 07:32 PM
are you joking or are you a troll?:confused::confused:

I don't think it's Hitler's sanity that is in doubt here. ;)

Nickdfresh
05-29-2008, 09:45 PM
Well, getting back too the thread. Didn't Hitler's cousin, the one he was having the affair with, commit suicide because allegedly he made her perform disgusting excretory acts of fetishism?

Major Walter Schmidt
05-29-2008, 09:52 PM
He did not, they fell down the stairs.

Well, hitler kicked them down..

Major Walter Schmidt
05-29-2008, 10:41 PM
Well, getting back too the thread. Didn't Hitler's cousin, the one he was having the affair with, commit suicide because allegedly he made her perform disgusting excretory acts of fetishism?

niece actualy.. Geli Raubal's the name.

Warpig
05-29-2008, 11:56 PM
Well, hitler kicked them down..

Lies ! Jews fell down the stairs, russians starved because they realised God hates them and Poles simply moved to UK.

Nickdfresh
05-30-2008, 12:11 AM
Lies ! Jews fell down the stairs, russians starved because they realised God hates them and Poles simply moved to UK.

You my friend have a very serious anger problem...

snebold
05-30-2008, 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickdfresh
Well, getting back too the thread. Didn't Hitler's cousin, the one he was having the affair with, commit suicide because allegedly he made her perform disgusting excretory acts of fetishism?

niece actualy.. Geli Raubal's the name.

Angela Raubaul, called Geli.

About Geli Raubal: She certainly commited suicide (or was murdered) because of her famous uncle´s attentions. Whether this was because "of his having made unusual demands of her", or that she realised that she´d never be allowed to have any other man as long as A.H. was in love with her, has never been clarified.

"His intensely secretive nature in financial and sexual matters makes it difficult to discover his preferrences. Certainly in his sexual leanings there are persistent suggestions to a darker side of his nature."
"Two women, Renate Müller, an actress, and Henny Hoffmann, the daughter of his photographer Heinrich Hoffmann and later wife of Von Schirach [Boss of Hitler Youth], are claimed to have beaten or abused him for his sexual satisfaction."

All quotes from Dictionary of the Third Reich, James Taylor and Warren Shaw.

I have never crossed a source, where Hitler´s sexual inclination are more than allegations by third parties, like the "are claimed to have" above, but he certainly was in love with Geli, and they most probably had some kind of affair, certainly spent much time together.
Geli was shot in the heart, reported to be suicide, but this nobody will ever know.

And Hitler´s reaction: "He wept publicly at her graveside. Weeks later, at a crucial meeting with President Hindenburg, Gregor Strasser complained that Hitler was still lacking in concentration."

"One of the many rumours [fx. that Himmler ordered her murder] circulating at the time concerned a letter which Hitler is supposed to have written to his niece. In it, the rumour stated, Hitler confessed to some of his sexual problems, and in particular his sado-masochistic inclinations. This letter, it was said at the time, fell into the wrong hands and was bought back with Nazi Party funds by a nazi priest, Father Bernhard Stempfle. Only one thing in this story is certain: the fate of the helpful priest quickly followed all those who knew anything about the darker side of Hitler´s life, when his body was found in a forest near Munich with three bullets in the chest."

So much smoke and no fire?
Also heard rumours of semi-weird sexual ceremonies in some secret society Hitler was member of after WWI that A.H. should have taken part in, and/or "learned" from. Perhaps the Thule Society, but I can´t find it now.

And about his relations to Eva Braun. Never heard anybody claiming to know what they did when alone. She was called the most lonely women in the Third Reich during the war, She wasn´t among his top priorities. From 1942 on some say that his closest relationship was to his German shephard dog Blondie.
Not quite normal, perhaps.

Chevan
05-30-2008, 08:43 AM
So much smoke and no fire?
.
Actually there was a something wrong with sexual behaviour of Hitler.
However hardly it was just his failure- in fact many of NAzy Bonzes suffered from desasters and manias.
For instance the gaulaiter of Ukraine Alfred Koh who was well known of his sado-mazo habits.
Of Boss of Belorussia- Vilgelm Kube, blowed up by partisans in his bedroom.
However if you look at the contemporary behaviour of World Elite- hardly you will find something better or moral.
So try to search the Hitler's "lacks" we can't just recognize him as madman.
Becouse it doesn't explain why a millions of peoples believed him, went for him and done so many nasty things in the name of Hitler.
If he was insame - were the other 90% of GErman population too?

Rising Sun*
05-30-2008, 09:05 AM
Of Boss of Belorussia- Vilgelm Kube, blowed up by partisans in his bedroom.

This would be a partisan blow job? :D

Seriously, there is so much written about Hitler's mental state and based on such scant sources that it deserves a reworking of Churchill's statement: Never in the field of human history was so much written about one person by so many with so little evidence.

There is a book by ?E. Schwaab entitled something like Hitler's Mind - Descent into Madness (as distinct from Walter Langer's book with a title like The Mind of Adolf Hitler and based on war time information, rumours and resultant assessments) which runs the line that he was a full on paranoiac.

Like other accusations of mental illness aimed at Hitler, I can't see a truly psychotic person managing what he did over a quarter of a century without coming apart in ways that would have seen him removed by those around him.

He was probably about as mad as some of today's average grasping capitalists exploiting major corporations for world dominance and personal benefit, but happily free of the restraints imposed by commerce regulators.

In today's terms he'd probably be classed as having a personality disorder, which to psychiatrists means he doesn't have a mental illness but he's not quite right. People with personality disorders are the type who get up in a bell tower with a .303 and start shooting strangers in the street, or who go into a workplace and start shooting people there because they're still upset about nobody admitting who stole the shooter's handkerchief three years ago or because somebody missed their turn at cleaning the office kitchen a few months back.

Major Walter Schmidt
05-30-2008, 10:40 AM
Actually there was a something wrong with sexual behaviour of Hitler.
However hardly it was just his failure- in fact many of NAzy Bonzes suffered from desasters and manias.
For instance the gaulaiter of Ukraine Alfred Koh who was well known of his sado-mazo habits.
Of Boss of Belorussia- Vilgelm Kube, blowed up by partisans in his bedroom.
However if you look at the contemporary behaviour of World Elite- hardly you will find something better or moral.
So try to search the Hitler's "lacks" we can't just recognize him as madman.
Becouse it doesn't explain why a millions of peoples believed him, went for him and done so many nasty things in the name of Hitler.
If he was insame - were the other 90% of GErman population too?

Insanity doesnt mean a peron is 100% idiot... he was good at elocution and Goebbels was good at brainwashing.

imi
06-19-2008, 12:41 PM
Hitler(Stalin also)was mad,tryin to rule the whole world,give order to kill millions of innocent peoples (incl.small childs,old's)
But he is decisive figure of the XX. century

artmiser
06-24-2008, 09:42 PM
Hitles is considered insane because of the death camps, I mean really what was one more dictator tyring to take over the world? Stalin and Mao Zedong killed more, the problem is they didn't lose.

Who knows what would have happened if hitler had not come to power, I still think there would have been a world war II, the Treaty of Versailles pretty much guaranteed that.

Hitler Insane? Power corrupts. At the end, he was a nutcase.

pdf27
08-04-2008, 06:26 PM
his message was clear he just carried out his ideas the wrong way
It's a great deal worse than merely "carrying out ideas the wrong way" - said ideas themselves inherently required genocide, rather than the genocide being a by-product of poor implementation of ideas.

Rising Sun*
08-05-2008, 04:38 AM
yes by genocide i ment he carried his ideas out the wrong way

What would have been the right way?

pdf27
08-05-2008, 04:55 AM
yes by genocide i ment he carried his ideas out the wrong way
Since "his ideas" involved depopulating immense areas of Eastern Europe and European Russia and replacing the population with ethnic Germans, I fail to see any way in which his ideas could have been carried out without Genocide. Not to mention the extermination of the Jewish people in Europe was also clearly his idea...

Krad42
08-06-2008, 12:33 PM
Every time that someone doesn't adhere to our parameters of morality, there is a claim of insanity. I don't believe that Hitler was insane, but I do believe that he adhered to Machiavelistic views...The end justifies the means. The man believed that there was a superior race and that Jews and others were a threat. He may have been paranoid and amoral, but to claim insanity is going a little too far. Hitler was arrogant and narcissistic, and it was this that would prove fatal to the Third Reich.
If we're going to classify Hitler as insane because of the Holocaust, then history is full of insane leaders. There have been many groups that have suffered from genocidal persecution throughout millennia. Jews have suffered persecution from many leaders and groups throughout history. Hitler wasn't the first one to commit genocide and certainly hasn't been the last!

aly j
09-19-2008, 06:21 AM
Hitler could have won the war,but he messed up with his rasism,and he turned his generaks against himself,no general ever agreed with his theory they all were high educated people with moral rules,they were wery noble people

yeah i know............instead of killin the jews,he should put them in
the german army and he would of had won the war.
i dont under stand hitler............u cant tell the difference between
germans and jews..................the jews look lik any other eropean
person