What Messerschmitt Bf 109 variant do you like most?

[Flammpanzer]

Well, maybe this is a bit senseless, but I would to know what version of the one-O-nine YOU like most and why? :D

I personally like the late G-versions (G-10 or G-14) and the K-4 ("Kurfürst") most, because it was the most elegant and potent machine of this type. I like the Erla-Haube and the slim tailfin and also the retractable rear-wheel.

So, gentlemen, what about you opinion?

Here I found a nice clip with the Messerschmitt 109G from the Messerschmitt-Stiftung. Just listen to that fantastic sound! Interesting: the difficult landing, that is typical for that plane with such a narrow track and due to the torque of the prop.

http://www.myvideo.de/watch/1124570

Jens

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

I like the G variants too. Don't know much about them though, just look cool to me.

[Panzerknacker]

The retractable tailwheel was present since the F variant, is just that in the later ones was let fixed for preserve the fuselage in case of crash landing.

I am not sure if the right question is "like the most" but wich was more effective in his year of introduction. I think the F-4.

[Splinter54]

Messerschmitt G-10

[Flammpanzer]

I am not sure if the right question is "like the most" but wich was more effective in his year of introduction. I think the F-4.

that would also be an interesting issue, but I was asking for the personal favourite taste of the members. it is just about good looks. ;) I f. e. do not like the E-versions much, compared to the K, they look a bit plump.

jens

[Digger]

For me I prefer the F-4.

It seems most pilots had no real problems during take off or landing, though quite a few mention the long nose of the Messerschmitt created visibility problems and landings had to be carried out by feel.

Some pilots claim the type was more difficult on the ground during the day. It's all relative as some pilots preferred to cut the engine early, while others liked to have the throttle slightly open during landing.

The 'narrow' undercarriage of the 109 is mainly myth. In fact the Spitfire had a more narrow undercarriage. Most German and their Allied pilots claim the Messerschmitt was very stable on the ground. All in all approxiamately 1,500 Messerschmitts were lost in ground accidents throughout it's career which equates to just over 4.5% of total production. This does not seem to be to out of line to other fighters of the period, but I would like to do a bit more research on that.

Regards Digger.

[Panzerknacker]

The 'narrow' undercarriage of the 109 is mainly myth. In fact the Spitfire had a more narrow undercarriage. Most German and their Allied pilots claim the Messerschmitt was very stable on the ground


Vey true :mrgreen: , The naval variant of the Spit, the seafire was a nightmare lo land in carrier.

I think I now why Splinter54 like the G-10 the most, it was the fastest BF-109 available.

http://misc.kitreview.com/bookreviews/images/bf109g10u4reviewbg_sample.jpg


December 1944 saw the DIANA facility move to construction of the final Bf 109G model. The sole variant produced here was the Bf 109G-10/U4. The Bf 109G-10/U4 aircraft produced at WNF could be distinguished by the following external features:

tall wooden fin (with either B or C style rudder, some with Flettner tab installation)
wide 660x190mm tyres and the large streamlined fairing
improved cockpit heating featuring hot air ducting on the back of the canopy armour
uniquely shaped rivetted fairings below the windscreen (otherwise similar to non-Erla build cowl)
short tail wheel strut
engine mounted 30mm MK 108 cannon (unique to WNF Bf 109Gs)

[Panzerknacker]

Bf-109G2 of Waldemar Huy, JG77, with several ship "killmarks":

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9367/g2bomber8wpei3.jpg




A rare variant, Bf-109G-6/N , a night fighter equipped with IFF and flame dampers. this "kanonenboot" of JG 301 landed in UK after combat with some Lancaster in mid 1944 and it was captured.


http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/5594/g6nocheds0.jpg


http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/808/g6noche2hv3.jpg

[Librarian]

Fine question indeed, my dear Mr. Flammpanzer. And also some very exceptional photos, provided by Mr. Panzerknacker. Therefore, thank you for the opportunity. :)

Although I personally do represent some kind of a "middle age techno-freak", in this particular case I shall vote for the good old Bf 109 E-3. And why? Well, mainly because the early forties were the last years when the old WW 1 spirit of aerial adventure, unhampered chivalry, deep esteem toward your enemy, and optimistic pursuit toward technical and tactical perfection have dominated the skies. After that… well, everything was some kind of an almost standardized activity - with occasional exceptions, of course.

Besides, I have one very deep personal reason as well: Bf 109 E probably was the last type of a legendary airplane that was piloted by a guy wearing spectacles during the Battle of Britain.:roll:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/Bf109E-3.jpg

BF 109 E-3, 7/JG 51, 1940

So here you have a real-life picture of my personal trance connected with Bf 109. I don’t know is this airplane that very personal machine of late Mr. Friedrich Beckh - the 'short-sighted' ace of the JG 51 – but, after all, that is completely irrelevant. The only important things are our memories and sentiments connected with those times and those irreproducible personalities.

Once again – thank you for the opportunity. In the meantime - al the best!;)

[Amrit]

I'm going to be really cheeky and say that my favourite has to be, theoretically, the 109Gs with the Merlin engines as used by the Spanish Air Force (and in the BoB film). I would love to think that it was a marriage made in heaven (but does anyone have any performance data on the Spanish 109 / Hispano Aviacion Ha 1112s?)

[Panzerknacker]

I'm going to be really cheeky and say that my favourite has to be, theoretically, the 109Gs with the Merlin engines as used by the Spanish Air Force (and in the BoB film). I would love to think that it was a marriage made in heaven (but does anyone have any performance data on the Spanish 109 / Hispano Aviacion Ha 1112s?)


The Messers made in spain get the prize for the ugliest variant I guess.

[Amrit]

The Messers made in spain get the prize for the ugliest variant I guess.

I agree it didn't look good, but the Merlin seems to have given it 665 Km/h against the Bf 109G-6's 622 km/h, and greater range - 765 km against 724 km. But I'd be interested in any other tech details, if they are available.

[Amrit]

A rare variant, Bf-109G-6/N , a night fighter equipped with IFF and flame dampers. this "kanonenboot" of JG 301 landed in UK after combat with some Lancaster in mid 1944 and it was captured.


http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/5594/g6nocheds0.jpg


http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/808/g6noche2hv3.jpg



According to War Prizes by Phil Butler, this was a Bf 109G-6/U2 flown by Horst Prenzel, landed at Manston, 21/07/44. Tested before crashing beyond repair on 23/11/44.

[Panzerknacker]

According to War Prizes by Phil Butler, this was a Bf 109G-6/U2 flown by Horst Prenzel, landed at Manston, 21/07/44. Tested before crashing beyond repair on 23/11/44.

Thanks for the correction.


I agree it didn't look good, but the Merlin seems to have given it 665 Km/h against the Bf 109G-6's 622 km/h, and greater range - 765 km against 724 km. But I'd be interested in any other tech details, if they are available.

The sources gave several maximum speeds for the G-6 like 620, 623, 625 km/h, the fact is that many people forgot that is the maximum speed with the normal power, but the G-6 made after August 1943 had an MW-50 system (wather-methanol injection) wich boosted the DB-605A from 1475hp to 1700 hp for 5 minutes, the maximum speed with this system was some like 655-660 km/h.

[Amrit]

The sources gave several maximum speeds for the G-6 like 620, 623, 625 km/h, the fact is that many people forgot that is the maximum speed with the normal power, but the G-6 made after August 1943 had an MW-50 system (wather-methanol injection) wich boosted the DB-605A from 1475hp to 1700 hp for 5 minutes, the maximum speed with this system was some like 655-660 km/h.

Feels like a game of Top Trumps :D

Mine still beats yours ;)

[Panzerknacker]

Or "The fast and the Furious" :mrgreen: , funny enough the Nitrous oxide was also used in some german fighter but it was corrosive and shortened the engine life.

MW-50 tank in BF-109G-14.

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9937/marielsd7.jpg

[Amrit]

I did wonder about the nitrous - and what real use it was except to escape or initial pursuit. Not much use in an actual dogfight.

I'm becoming more intrigued by the Spanish model - I wonder whether weights had to be placed in the tail to compensate for the heavier engine. Sort of opposite of the U2 version with the wooden tail that was heavier than aluminium, requiring weights at the front?

[Panzerknacker]

I cannot found a good site about it, but I know that the spanish HA-112 had several stability troubles due the change of center gravity, same happen with the Czech variant made by Avia.


Very nice rendering of the BF109G-6/R6 variant devoted antibomber aircraft.

http://www2.cc22.ne.jp/~harada/Bf_109_G6/jpg/Bf_109_G6_1.jpg




http://www2.cc22.ne.jp/~harada/Bf_109_G6/jpg/Bf_109_G6_2.jpg



This aircraft could also include a harder hitting centerline MK 108 30mm cannon, in the BF-109G-6/U4/R6.

[Digger]

Quoted speeds for most aircraft are usually manufacturers specs and usually in a clean condition. These speeds were rarely attained in combat, especially as the plane aged.

Regards digger.

[Panzerknacker]

I think the fastest variant was the G-10 .

[Panzerknacker]

Information about the G-10 variant extracted from "BF-109 in action part II" Squadron Signal:

[tankgeezer]

the destroyed ones.

[Panzerknacker]

the destroyed ones.


??????...Meaning what ?

[tankgeezer]

??????...Meaning what ? Meaning one does not have to fight that which is already destroyed.

[shoogs]

ok as you all might now or gess i am rather new with all this, now i am very confused as i was looking at two pics, one being the bf109 the other being the me109 both aircraft look the same and i must admit i have never been able to tell them apart, i always thought they were the same both being the 109's just one is the me to wich i thought stood for Messerschmitt so bf stands for ?,iv done a little research and found this.

The BF109 E was the Luftwaffe's standard single-seat fighter for the first three years of the war and was able to outfight or outrun virtually all opposition. From the summer of 1942 the Messerschmitt 109G powered by a Daimler-Benz producing 1,800 hp with water-methanol injection and giving a speed of 685 km/h (428 mph), entered service in Russia and North Africa before being deployed in every other theater. With its standard armament of a cannon and two machine guns the Messerschmitt 109, like the Spitfire , saw action throughout the war.

Bearing in mind that the Messerschmitt 109 was to become one of the Royal Air Force's major opponents in the Second World War, it is ironic that the prototype had a British Rolls-Royce Kestrel engine when it made its first flight in September 1935. The power plant was, however, soon changed. In any case, Rolls-Royce was using a German built Heinkel He 70 to flight test some of its latest engines at about the same time.

this still dont help me why call one bf and another me, gess im a little slow :rolleyes:

[shoogs]

they are both 109's but what is the diffirance, just the two letters in front or what ?
705
this is the bf109
706
and this is the me109.
they look the same but how can you tell one from the other?? please help.
i did do a little research but didnt find out to much just what is below....yes i know they the same pic but they called bf and me

The BF109 E was the Luftwaffe's standard single-seat fighter for the first three years of the war and was able to outfight or outrun virtually all opposition. From the summer of 1942 the Messerschmitt 109G powered by a Daimler-Benz producing 1,800 hp with water-methanol injection and giving a speed of 685 km/h (428 mph), entered service in Russia and North Africa before being deployed in every other theater. With its standard armament of a cannon and two machine guns the Messerschmitt 109, like the Spitfire , saw action throughout the war.

Bearing in mind that the Messerschmitt 109 was to become one of the Royal Air Force's major opponents in the Second World War, it is ironic that the prototype had a British Rolls-Royce Kestrel engine when it made its first flight in September 1935. The power plant was, however, soon changed. In any case, Rolls-Royce was using a German built Heinkel He 70 to flight test some of its latest engines at about the same time.

[Flammpanzer]

Bf stands for Bayrische Flugzeugwerke, which means Bavarian Aircraftfactories. ME is an abbr. for Messerschmitt (after Willy Messerschmitt, the c.e.o of Messerschmitt ;-)

Messerschmitt means, btw., KNIFESMITH, although the ending SCHMITT is an older word for Schmied, which actually means smith.

there are some very distinguishing things which help to say which one O nine you have in front of you. the E (EMIL) has, f. e., struts for the tail-wings, another canopy and much more things that differ from a late G-model.

jens

[shoogs]

hay thanks for that i didnt mean to put it in here but that what i asked for thanks m8:D

[Flammpanzer]

you`re welcome! IMHO Bf was the official abbr. and ME was inofficial.

jens

[Amrit]

BF is the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke (Bavarian Aircraft Works), which Willy Messerschmitt joined in the 1920s. In the late 1930s, the company was changed to Messerschmitt AG, with Willy becoming Director. Those aircraft that had been designed before this retained the Bf (108, 109, 110 - can't remember any others) on official documents, and the ones after became Me. However, the two became pretty much interchangeable.

[shoogs]

r sweet thanks for that so they are the same just the me came out after the company changed with willy messerschmitt. thank you

[Panzerknacker]

Me-109TL.

What about this variant ?

The Messerschmitt 109 Turbo-Lader Strahltriebwerk ( turbocharger jet engine) was proposed on January 22, 1943 at an RLM conference as a back-up for the Me 262, of which only three prototypes had been completed at the time.

http://i20.tinypic.com/2m3leh5.jpg

In order to cut down on design and production time, various components from existing aircraft was to be used. The fuselage from the Me 155B high-altitude fighter was to be used (with a new nose and tail section), the wing was from the Me 209 project II and the undercarriage came from the Me 309. The armament was to be two MG 151/20 20mm cannon (120 rounds each) and two MK 103 30mm cannon, all in the nose.


http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/6564/me109tl1fn4.jpg

A later proposal included two MK 108 30mm cannon could be installed in the wing roots.


The performance was estimated to be better than the Me 262 due to the Me 109 TL's narrower fuselage. Following intensive study, by March 1943 it was decided that so many modifications to the various components would be needed that no time would be gained over the Me 262 development, thus the project was abandoned.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5025/me109tl2ij6.jpg

[Librarian]

by March 1943 it was decided that so many modifications to the various components would be needed that no time would be gained over the Me 262 development, thus the project was abandoned.

And I think that aforesaid decision was right, my dear Mr. Panzerknacker – if only because some components for this airplane were overtaken from aircraft that were paper projects themselves – nose wheel of the Me 309, main wheels of the Me 155 B-1, wings of the me 409… for heavens sake - a complete design-patchwork! Therefore, no – thank you, I stay with those classicistic variants. You know, that old fashioned just-point-and-shoot airplane with "a rasping growl combined with the whistle of its hydraulic supercharger" - as poetically described by Mr. Michael Jerram. :)


http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/Me109F.jpg

Messerschmitt Bf 109 F


Anyhow, thanks for your very informative post, my dear Mr. Panzerknacker. All the best!;)

[Panzerknacker]

No problem Librarian, Actually the info about the Me-202/309/509 or another alternatives seems always to be insuficient. nice one that Messers with the PK in the side. hehehe

[Librarian]

nice one that Messers with the PK in the side. Hehehe

You like it, my dear Mr. Panzerknacker? If so, don’t worry - here is another one for you. Yes, I know: this is not a photo of that famous… well, international airplane notability PK + HX, but nevertheless… ;)Those immortal dynamic outlines are clearly visible on this excellent Bf 109 photo-study.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2508/bf109f1vj5.jpg

Messerschmitt Bf 109 F – from beneath!

And some other forgotten moments connected with the Bf 109 are evoked on this photography too: Augsburg, 1941 – assembly line of the Messerschmitt GmbH Regensburg – Obertraubling.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/Bf109assemblyline1.jpg

Messerschmitt Bf 109 – assembly line in Regensburg


And don’t worry – these snapshots are just the beginning! After all these years they surely do deserve a proper public presentation.

In the meantime, as always – all the best! :)

[Panzerknacker]

Very good ones. ;)

Is worth to mention that the F-0 and F-1 had some structural troubles with his tail section.

[Librarian]

It is worth to mention that the F-0 and F-1 had some structural troubles with his tail section.

You mean when three pre-production F-series machines were lost? Yes, I know for that problem, but as far as I know troubles with the Bf 109 tail-buffeting were registered even before, more precisely in 1938, when the Jagdgruppe J-88 in Spain was re-equipped with the Bf 109B fighters. Although this problem was resolved with a new cantilevered tail design that was introduced on a Bf 109 E fighter type, generally less known fact is that during the process of continuous improvement of the Bf 109 model some pure engineering pretermissions unfortunately occurred, mainly due to unprecedented scurry toward previously neglected, for true mass-production essentially important aluminum alloy profile sheets, rivets and screws standardization (for example, shrinkage from 20 different light alloy sheet types to only 7, and curtailment from 340 different types of screws to only 156) – that was suddenly highly emphasized by Luftwaffe HQ, and mercilessly requested upon the Bf engineering team.

Subsequent examinations, however, revealed the fact that all the screws on the tail assembly/fuselage joint were torn out due to the tremendous vibrations. Suspicion fell on the tail spar, since the rivets between the ribs and the elevators were all loose, missing or broken. Prolonged investigations discovered that when the bracing struts of the Bf109E tail assembly were omitted on the Bf 109F and stronger but less ribbing used, the proportion of the rigidity to the strength of the member was altered too. The result was that the tailplane had a frequency of oscillation which, at certain engine revolutions, was overlapped by the engine, and the resultant phase-consonance vibrations tore out the tail spars. This problem was healed by fitting additional reinforcing plates in the tailplane.

But let’s continue our sightseeing tour of well known Bf 109 production facilities. As we all know, Bf109Es were coming off the production lines in early 1939, with the bulk of the production being carried out by Erla Werke and Fieseler, who built nearly 1400 aircraft in 1939.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/Bf109assemblylineRegensburg.jpg

Bf 109 raw-fuselage montage, Regensburg-Obertraubling

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/Bf109E-Erlawerke.jpg

Bf 109 E production line, Erla Maschinenwerke, Leipzig-Mockau

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/Bf109E-finalization.jpg

Almost completely finished airplanes are moved by portal derrick, due to lack of production space in the assembly hall - Erla Maschinenwerke, Leipzig-Mockau

In our next chapter we will analyze another highly important part of the Bf 109 story – actual production of the Daimler-Benz DB 601 engine.

Till then – all the best! :)

[Panzerknacker]

Subsequent examinations, however, revealed the fact that all the screws on the tail assembly/fuselage joint were torn out due to the tremendous vibrations. Suspicion fell on the tail spar, since the rivets between the ribs and the elevators were all loose, missing or broken. Prolonged investigations discovered that when the bracing struts of the Bf109E tail assembly were omitted on the Bf 109F and stronger but less ribbing used, the proportion of the rigidity to the strength of the member was altered too. The result was that the tailplane had a frequency of oscillation which, at certain engine revolutions, was overlapped by the engine, and the resultant phase-consonance vibrations tore out the tail spars. This problem was healed by fitting additional reinforcing plates in the tailplane.

A image of the early serie F tail reinforcements.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4066/stiffql4.jpg


From: BF-109 in action Part II, Squadron Signal.

[Major Walter Schmidt]

I like the Me 109 Zwilling.Wouldhave been a nice fighter-bomber probably.
http://www.luft46.com/mess/3vm109z.jpg

[Dallas]

IIRC, Galland perferred the E model (Emil), I vote for the E model.

[Panzerknacker]

Galland prefered that Model for the armament, but actually I believe that his favorite was one modified Ferdinand with extra 13 guns in the cowling.

That variant was unique, no other Bf-109F was made with 13 mm Mgs.

[B-17engineer]

I like the G-10.......

[Clave]

'E' for me... but then again I have not got round to 'G' yet...

http://clave.warpstorm.com/gallery-m/Bf109E4_1_JG3_Site.jpg

http://clave.warpstorm.com/gallery-m/Bf109E4_2_JG77_Site.jpg

http://clave.warpstorm.com/gallery-m/Bf109E4_3_NJG1_Site.jpg

[Panzerknacker]

Nice profiles there Clave, the Emil was important, but I think a little clumsy for dogfights.

[Clave]

Yeah, I think it was quite nippy, but the Spitfire and Hurricane were better at turning inside..

[Panzerknacker]

Yeap, and that is why the Messerschmitts aces rarely played the doghtfight, they prefered the "boom and zoom" tactic.

A curiosity, the Me-109 V31 with belly radiator and wide undercarriage a test aircraft for the Me-309.

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/3530/bf109v31002swfotowr6.jpg



http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/8863/bf109v31003swfotoup9.jpg

[Librarian]

After a highly demanding and utterly draining business weak, the best art of mental relaxation I was able to find was a couple of old snapshots, devoted to our dearly beloved, good old 109. So here they are:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/Bf109G-1944.jpg

Bf 109 G, September 1944 – unknown location

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/Bf109F-1941.jpg

Camouflaged Bf 109 F somewhere in the Soviet Union – August, 1941

In the meantime, honorable ladies and gentlemen, as always – all the best! ;)

[wt259]

The G-10. Just cuz.....

[kiwimac]

Which variants did Hartmann fly?

[flamethrowerguy]

Which variants did Hartmann fly?

He did his very first solo flight on a Bf 109 D.
In their book "The blond knight of Germany" Toliver and Constable listed the following variants he flew during the war:
Bf 109 B,C,D,E,F,G-6, G-7 (?), G-10, G-14, H-16, K-4

[kiwimac]

I hadn't realised he had flown the 'B' and 'C' series BF-109s. Thank you Flamethrowerguy!

[Sergej]

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5017/dc6619b92ceffd0.jpg

Franz von Werra in a Bf-109E from II./JG 3. - June, 1940

[Panzerknacker]

Very nice pic. The little pet must be problematic after some years ;)

[Librarian]

Well, honorable ladies and gentlemen, after many days, we have here another couple of photos dedicated to our distinguished machine:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/Bf109G-HUAF-1.jpg

Pre take-off preparations of the Bf 109 G-6, Royal Hungarian Air Force – 1944

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/Bf109G-HUAF-2.jpg

Bumpy field-airport taxiing for takeoff, RHUAF, unidentified location – 1944

In the meantime, as always – all the best! :)

[kamehouse]

I am reading "Barbarossa-the air battle:July-December 1941" by Christer Bergstrom and there are lots of pictures of the Bf 109 with German and Rumanian markings.Many pictures of Russian planes also.Even Hurricanes from the RAF that fought in the far north.
If any of you are intrested.

[Librarian]

Of course, my dear Mr. Kamehouse! We are interested for everything connected with our dearly beloved birdie. Moreover, if those photos are in color, our delight and our appreciation will be eternal! :D

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/Startbereit.jpg

Startbereit! – Bf 109 E-3/JG 2 - France, 1940

Therefore, please – feel free and post those previously unseen photos in this topic whenever you wish. ;)

[Panzerknacker]

Funny one, Bf 109f-4.

http://i33.tinypic.com/308y2b9.jpg

[kamehouse]

There are a few in colour.A couple of Do 17z and Ju-87,quite a few of Ju-88 and only one of the Bf-109 E with Rumanian markings.
I don't have a scanner unfortunately.