WW2 Execution

[NOSLOSVO]

I was told this pic was an execution of one of our own for treason.
Is there any truth to this?
Any & all info would be greatly Appreciated......

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/sllacko2girls/Picture.jpg

[ww2admin]

Thanks for posting that picture. A couple of things:

1.) How do you know it's an American?

2.) The US executed many people for war crimes at the late stages of the war, but especially around the Nuremburg trials and this could be a foreign officer.

3.) Why is the quality of the photo so bad? This looks like Civil War material.

I'd like to see/hear what others have to say.

[NOSLOSVO]

I don't no much about this picture. I'm only going by what I was told.
If someone know's more let me no....
I'd like to hear more also.

[GermanSoldier]

I don't no much about this picture. I'm only going by what I was told.
If someone know's more let me no....
I'd like to hear more also.

Well I know for sure it is American soldiers because I have seen that picture in a book. The picture was not like a civil war picture like you posted. It was just a regular World War 2 picture. Then the picture right by it showed the bullets going through him and hitting the wood he was held up against. In the picture you could see some of the wood going everywhere. It was pretty cool, but not for him.:roll:

[Panzerknacker]

I was told this pic was an execution of one of our own for treason.
Is there any truth to this?
Any & all info would be greatly Appreciated......



Completely untrue, those were german soldier dressed on american uniforms in the Battle of the Bulge, the germans belong to an special detachment commanded by Otto Skorzeny wich had the task to create disinformation and panic behind enemy lines.

[AllHailCesar]

I believe they posed as MPs.

[Panzerknacker]

Another pic of the same day.

http://img229.echo.cx/img229/2268/pzbrig150menexecutedatambarrac.jpg

[ww2admin]

You have to wonder why they chose to execute them, and not the thousands of other German prisoners they got from the Bulge battle.

[Panzerknacker]

Because the use of enemy uniforms behind enemy lines make them spies, and teorically the Geneva convention allowed the execution of this marauding soldiers.

[AllHailCesar]

Spies...exactly.

[Laconia]

How about that American soldier, Private Eddie Slovak, or Slovick, who was executed for cowardice. Anyone heard of this?

[pdf27]

Because the use of enemy uniforms behind enemy lines make them spies, and teorically the Geneva convention allowed the execution of this marauding soldiers.
It was the 1907 Hague convention in force at the time IIRC - the Geneva conventions didn't come into force until postwar. I think the use of enemy uniforms is defined as "perfidy" and as such should any people wearing enemy uniform be captured they have no protection from the Geneva or Hague conventions. Traditionally such people could be executed immediately after capture, and nobody would bat an eyelid.

[Panzerknacker]

It was the 1907 Hague convention in force at the time IIRC - the Geneva conventions didn't come into force until postwar. I think the use of enemy uniforms is defined as "perfidy" and as such should any people wearing enemy uniform be captured they have no protection from the Geneva or Hague conventions. Traditionally such people could be executed immediately after capture, and nobody would bat an eyelid.


Okay, Thanks.

[NOSLOSVO]

Why is the quality of the photo so bad? This looks like Civil War material.

This an actual photo. Not from a book.

[Panzerknacker]

Well, you have to recognize that is not in good shape :rolleyes:

What about the info ? Do you have any doubts?

[jacobtowne]

Panzerknacker is correct. There were three German soldiers executed by firing squad on 23 December, 1944 - NCO Günther Billing, Sgt. Wilhelm Schmidt, and NCO Manfred Pernass. They were members of Skorzeny's 150th Panzerbrigade. These people wore American uniforms and drove American vehicles during the Ardennes Offensive. It was called Operation Griffin.

JT

[Panzerknacker]

Thanks for providing the names, I was looking for footage of that day ( wich I had seen on TV) but found none till now.

[Dani]

http://ardennes44.free.fr/page52.html

[Panzerknacker]

Thanks for the link Dani.

Thus even if the principal share ultimately remained only one failure in the offensive, the few commandos who infiltrated under the American uniform succeeded in sowing the doubt and the disorder in the Alliés rows which then saw Germans disguised in American everywhere. Forgotten passwords usually employed with the profit of questions rather turned on certain rules relating to American football or even names of this time's greats players.


I saw in History Channel that most of the question to confirm if one was U.S army or not were baseball related.... in my case I will be shot at once, my english is fluent ( and I can simulate some accents) but that sport is chinese to me. :neutral:

[ww2admin]

yes, it was baseball, not football. I remember this now, thanks.

[NOSLOSVO]

Thanks for everyone’s help and all the info. Definitely a very knowledgeable group.

[Panzerknacker]

You re welcome.

WW2incolor forum: satisfaction guaranteed. ;)

[jacobtowne]

Some were baseball questions, but by no means all. Here's additional information on Operation Griffin from another board.


In December 1944 Adolf Hitler sent his favorite and most daring commander, Maj. Otto Skorzeny, on secret mission deep within Allied territory. Skorzeny was accompanied by 500 men from the 150th Panzer Brigade. They were wearing American and British uniforms, all of them spoke English and many of them had spent time in Britain or the United States. They also had control of twenty Sherman tanks and thirty trucks. Their mission was to spread rumors, change signposts, and generally spread panic among the troops. Their mission coincided with the German counteroffensive that became The Battle of the Bulge, so not only would the Allies have to deal with armed Germans attacking them from the front, but also worry that the man next to him might be a Nazi in disguise.

Once it was known the German battalion was behind the lines, the word traveled fast - trust no one. Soon a rumor was started saying that the main mission of Operation Greif was to assassinate Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, and panic set in. Ike's movements were restricted and was constantly surrounded by a cadre of bodyguards. The soldiers also spent an inordinate amount of time checking up on each other, the GIs questioned everyone, right up to Gen. Omar Bradley. Questions that could only be answered by a "real" American. Who plays center field for the Yankees? Who is Mickey Mouse's wife? What is the capital of Illinois? General Bradley was detained for answering Springfield for the last question; the soldier who stopped him insisted it was Chicago. Another general was arrested because he said the Chicago Cubs played in the American League.

The "Greifers," as they came to be known, had undergone months of training in order to properly act like American soldiers, but many were captured after inadvertently tripping up. One entire Jeep of undercover agents was captured at a gas station when the driver asked for "Petrol, please" instead of asking for "gas." Another German officer was captured because his forged identification card was too good. All American servicemen carried an ID card that said "Not a Pass - For Indentification Only." The German forger had spelled "identification" correctly on the fake card, and ended up costing the captured officer his life.

For all of the problems caused by the members of Operation Greif, they were unable to stop the Americans. As the bulge was pushed back, the Greifers fled to Germany with the rest of their retreating comrades. Hitler awarded Otto Skorzeny the Iron Cross for his efforts in leading the operation.


JT

[redalb2253]

Slovik was executed in 45 for desertion the 1st and only since the civil war.

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

2.) The US executed many people for war crimes at the late stages of the war, but especially around the Nuremburg trials and this could be a foreign officer.

The US EMs also were ordered by their Officers to not take any SS prisoners (Of any sort: Waffen, Allgemein, etc.) But they wouldn't be 'formely' executed like this.

[Vassili Chukolov]

Hm, it might have been a German dressed up as a American MP, during the battle of the bulge possible? I've seen a similar picture of a German being tied up, facing the camera, two Americans behind him where about to put a blind fold over his head. Not sure.

[arhob1]

It was the 1907 Hague convention in force at the time IIRC - the Geneva conventions didn't come into force until postwar. I think the use of enemy uniforms is defined as "perfidy" and as such should any people wearing enemy uniform be captured they have no protection from the Geneva or Hague conventions. Traditionally such people could be executed immediately after capture, and nobody would bat an eyelid.

On this rare occasion PDF27 I think you are wrong. The Geneva Convention was alive and well at the time of WW2. See the chronology below from Wikipedia:

First Geneva Convention "for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field" (first adopted in 1864, last revision in 1949)

Second Geneva Convention "for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea" (first adopted in 1949, successor of the 1907 Hague Convention X)

Third Geneva Convention "relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War" (first adopted in 1929, last revision in 1949)

Fourth Geneva Convention "relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War" (first adopted in 1949, based on parts of the 1907 Hague Convention IV)
In addition, there are three additional amendment protocols to the Geneva Convention:

Protocol I (1977): Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts. As of 12 January 2007 it had been ratified by 167 countries.

Protocol II (1977): Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of Non-International Armed Conflicts. As of 12 January 2007 it had been ratified by 163 countries.

Protocol III (2005): Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Adoption of an Additional Distinctive Emblem. As of 12 January 2007 it had been ratified by nine countries and signed but not yet ratified by an additional 75 countries.
All four conventions were last revised and ratified in 1949, based on previous revisions and partly on some of the 1907 Hague Conventions; the whole set is referred to as the "Geneva Conventions of 1949" or simply the "Geneva Conventions". Later conferences have added provisions prohibiting certain methods of warfare and addressing issues of civil wars. Nearly all 200 countries of the world are "signatory" nations, in that they have ratified these conventions.

[redcoat]

It was the 1907 Hague convention in force at the time IIRC - the Geneva conventions didn't come into force until postwar. I think the use of enemy uniforms is defined as "perfidy" and as such should any people wearing enemy uniform be captured they have no protection from the Geneva or Hague conventions. Traditionally such people could be executed immediately after capture, and nobody would bat an eyelid.
No, international law required a trial before they could be executed.
It is my understanding that in these cases they did receive a short military trial before they were executed

[QX AMT]

How about that American soldier, Private Eddie Slovak, or Slovick, who was executed for cowardice. Anyone heard of this?

Edward Donald Slovik (February 18, 1920 – January 31, 1945) was a private in the United States Army during World War II and the only American soldier to be executed for desertion since the American Civil War.

Although over twenty-one thousand soldiers were given varying sentences for desertion during World War II—including forty-nine death sentences—only Slovik's death sentence was carried out.

On December 9, Slovik wrote a letter to the Supreme Allied commander, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, pleading for clemency. However, desertion had become a problem, and Eisenhower confirmed the execution order on December 23. The execution by firing squad, was carried out at 10:04 a.m. on January 31, 1945, near the village of Sainte-Marie-aux-Mines. Slovik was twenty-four years old.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[QX AMT]

Completely untrue, those were german soldier dressed on american uniforms in the Battle of the Bulge, the germans belong to an special detachment commanded by Otto Skorzeny wich had the task to create disinformation and panic behind enemy lines.

I agree

Operation Greif was a special false flag operation commanded by the notorious Waffen-SS commando Otto Skorzeny during the Battle of the Bulge. The operation was the brainchild of German dictator Adolf Hitler, and consisted of using specially-trained German soldiers in captured Allied uniforms and vehicles to cause confusion in the rear of the Allied defense. A lack of transport aircraft, uniforms and English-speaking soldiers limited this operation, but the confusion created by this so-called "Trojan Horse Brigade" was considerable.

About two dozen German soldiers, most of them in captured American army Jeeps, got through the lines in the initial confusion of December 16, 1944, and began changing signposts and creating panic among American troops they encountered. However, some of the saboteurs were captured by the Americans. Because they were wearing American uniforms, their interrogators threatened to execute them as spies unless they divulged their mission. Knowing they were likely to meet that fate anyway (they did), the Germans falsely told the Americans that their mission was to go to Paris to either kill or capture overall Allied commander General Dwight D. Eisenhower. They truthfully told the interrogators that Skorzeny was their commander.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Linds7612]

Thanks for posting that picture. A couple of things:

1.) How do you know it's an American?

2.) The US executed many people for war crimes at the late stages of the war, but especially around the Nuremburg trials and this could be a foreign officer.

3.) Why is the quality of the photo so bad? This looks like Civil War material.

I'd like to see/hear what others have to say.

I don't think the americans had steel helmets during their civil war:)

I know my post is a wee bit late, but i just had to say it:D:D

[ww2artist]

Edward Donald Slovik (February 18, 1920 – January 31, 1945) was a private in the United States Army during World War II and the only American soldier to be executed for desertion since the American Civil War.

Although over twenty-one thousand soldiers were given varying sentences for desertion during World War II—including forty-nine death sentences—only Slovik's death sentence was carried out.

On December 9, Slovik wrote a letter to the Supreme Allied commander, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, pleading for clemency. However, desertion had become a problem, and Eisenhower confirmed the execution order on December 23. The execution by firing squad, was carried out at 10:04 a.m. on January 31, 1945, near the village of Sainte-Marie-aux-Mines. Slovik was twenty-four years old.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have a book about this case; it's diary excerpts from Slovik's diary and makes a fascinating read. If you're interested let me know and I'll give you more details.

[ww2artist]

I was told this pic was an execution of one of our own for treason.
Is there any truth to this?
Any & all info would be greatly Appreciated......

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/sllacko2girls/Picture.jpg

The MPs are just guards, that are there for the photo, I think. In the other photo you can see there are also others tied to posts and blindfolded with MPs beside them.

[Strangy]

hmm im sorry, the picture doesn't give me any clues. It could range from handing over information to well anything that the army saw fight to try as treason, which in war times, is a wide range.

[Panzerknacker]

All have been explained already in the early pages of this topic.

[overlord644]

How about that American soldier, Private Eddie Slovak, or Slovick, who was executed for cowardice. Anyone heard of this?

http://info.detnews.com/history/story/index.cfm?id=103&category=people

also the stripes on the soldiers helmets in the picture look like those of MP's

[rico]

For the Dutch readers and the global people who want t see some recent pics of the place of ecxecution at Henri Chapelle (Belgium)

http://www.bodem-vondsten.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=614
http://www.bodem-vondsten.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4826

Kind regards,

Rico.

[Nickdfresh]

All have been explained already in the early pages of this topic.

To reiterate:

The pic above is one of an English-speaking German soldier sent in US Army uniform to infiltrate the Ardennes right before the Battle of the Bulge...

Several were executed as spies since they fought using American equipment and while in US uniforms...

Battle of the Bulge ... German spies behind Allied lines
From World War II: An Interactive Package of Media and Text (1989, pp. 320-321):

A feature of the attack was the activities of the so-called 150th Panzer Brigade, a unit of some 2,000 English-speaking German commandos who knew American service slang and customs.

Under Colonel Otto Skorzeny, using captured American Jeeps and wearing American combat jackets over their German uniforms, the Germans advanced far ahead of the main force, cutting telephone wires, turning sign posts, setting up false red minefield indicators and creating as much confusion as possible. Each was under orders, if captured, to tell their captors that thousands of Germans were loose in American uniforms, driving Jeeps.

The success of the first group was outstanding -- forty Jeeps got through the American lines to commit their sabotage, and all but eight got back again. Those that were captured duly carried out their orders and spread rumors of a vast force of Germans in U.S. uniform -- with the result that huge traffic jams developed on the narrow roads through the forest as Jeeps were stopped and checked. Hundreds of Ameican soldiers who failed to prove their American origin by answering check questions correctly were arrested. Many a GI had cause to reflect in the cooler that a little more attention to school day lessons about the height of the Empire State Building and the content of the Gettysburg Address might have saved him a lot of bother.

Later groups of ... saboteurs were less successful although one man captured on the 19th launched a fresh rumor of an attempt on Eisenhower's life which caused a rash of extra security precautions that did much to slow the Supreme Commander's progress for days.

Since the activities of the 150th Panzer Brigade were entirely contrary to the Geneva Convention, the Americans began summarily to try and shoot the men captured in U.S. uniform, and this ended their incursions.

http://swacgirl.blogspot.com/2007/12/battle-of-bulge-german-spies-behind.html

[Major Walter Schmidt]

Didnt the US recently conduct a secret mission to South American rebel camps to rescue hostages dressed as journalists and medics? I heared that combatants dressing as medics is against the Geneva Convention.

[pdf27]

1) It was the Columbian Government, not the US Government.
2) It isn't exactly secret - the Columbians had a TV crew along filming the whole thing.
3) FARC are a terrorist group, thus not entitled to protection under the Geneva Conventions.

[Nickdfresh]

Didnt the US recently conduct a secret mission to South American rebel camps to rescue hostages dressed as journalists and medics? I heared that combatants dressing as medics is against the Geneva Convention.

It's not against the Geneva Convention, they're just not covered under the protections as soldiers as they're acting as intelligence (Colombian Military Intelligence) agents...

The Germans tried to get around that in 1944 by wearing Wehrmacht uniforms underneath the American ones...

[flamethrowerguy]

Definitely one of the execution photos of captured members of "Unternehmen Greif" (Operation Griffin) under SS-Obersturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny. Within the Battle of the Bulge they were supposed to cause confusion behind american lines wearing G.I. uniform. German command new that these soldiers would be executed if captured so only volunteers were recruited. Another problem was the language: it is one thing to speak english perfectly but it's damn hard for a german to speak english without the strong typical german accent Being a german I know about it). So they found only 30 soldiers with the adequate skills demanded. They were equipped with dogtags and pay books of captured or killed american soldiers. Even 12 Panzer V Panther were disguised as Shermans but easily recognized because of the typical track rollers. Altogether five german members of this unit have been executed. But the irritation on american side was enormous: 2500 G.I.s have been arrested temporarily because they were suspicious of being disguised germans.

[ptimms]

Flamethrower guy is closest on the operations of 150th Panzer Brigade. The quote about 20 Shermans is unfortunately way off the mark. Skorzeny planned for a powerful brigade with 2 battalions. However he got no where near what was needed. Attempts to get tanks and uniforms were fairly unsuccesful. He may have received 20 Shermans but most were broken down and useless. Also the uniforms were mostly British battledress. Accounts vary but at most 2 or 3 tanks were useable and went into the Ardennes. They had Panthers disguised as M10's and Stugs painted with US stars. A few Jeeps and scout cars were available and the balance was 250's with stars on them.
There were a few fluent American speakers, a lot with some American and some with none. The force consisted of three Kampfgruppe X, Y and Z. X and Y had a Tank Company of 10 Panthers/Stugs. 3 motorised company's (US and German trucks etc), 2 Mechanised platoons (US and German vehicles) and anti-tank, mortar, engineer and signals platoon. Included in these were 380 men from the SS Parachute battalion and 175 from the Commando unit SS-Jagdverbande Mitte.

There were two parts to the mission, the Greif teams disguised and in jeeps who were to carry out the disruption as described previously (one was the only German unit to reach the Meuse) the second was the main body of three Kampfgruppes who were to be released behind the lines once Peiper broke through. As the breakthrough never really occurred Skorzeny asked for his unit to be committed as ground troops. They attacked Malmedy, KG Y with the Shermans and Stugs attacked on the night 20/21st December nad failed. In the morning KG Z attacked with disguised Panthers and possibly a Sherman after some inital sucess they were driven off (proximity shells were used to great effect against them). Private Francis Curry received the Medal of Honour defending the Warche Bridge that day.. Skorzeny was also wounded but not in the attack. The unit went home pretty much after this.
Interestingly one reason Greif crews were captured was the fuel starved Germans filled the Jeeps with 4 or even 5 men. GI's with vehicles and fuel to burn almost never carried this many behind the lines. As a result crowded Jeeps were stopped resulting in several captures. The baseball password didn't always work. One US General (forget who) spent the night locked up as he wasn't a sports fan.

[ptimms]

I found this list of 150 Brigade on a spanish website.

1 Sherman operational and 1 in long term repair
5 Panthers operational
5 StuG IIIs operational
4 SdKfz 250/1s operational
6 SdKfz 251/1s operational
6 M3 halftracks-american operational
6 SdKfz 234/1s operational
4 M8 armored cars-american operational
12 motorcycles with sidecar-german
1 motorcycle with sidecar-american
43 motorcycles-german
20 motorcycles-american
28 jeeps-american
6 light civilian type car-german
36 medium civilian type car-german
9 heavy civilian type cars-german
64 light trucks-german
56 medium trucks-german
8 medium trucks-american
6 heavy trucks-german
1 truck-american
1 truck-german

Weapons
226 light MGs
31 heavy MGs
24 8cm mortars-german
24 4.2inch mortars-american
5 3inch AT guns-american
14 57mm AT guns-american

[Vlaams-Legioen]

The photo you see is from one of the executed German infiltraters in the US Military behind the American Lines in the "Battle of the Bulge". They were executed because the Geneva Convention forbids soldiers to wear an enemy uniform, if they do they could be caught for spying/infiltrating. He belonged to a special command of Otto Skorzeny, to confuse the US Military behind her lines. Nevertheless it failed it was quite a succes. The US Military even killed 2 of her own troops.

Kindly Regards
- Bart

www.winter-offensive.be

[Neal Fortner]

It looks like one of the Germans they shot, which was caught posing as an American in a US Army uniform, during the Battle of Bulge.

[rico]

Hello,

My name is Rico from the Neterlands.
I was wandering where you got the picture from of the executed German at Henri Chapelle.
Kind regards,

Rico.

[jumpwings]

Commando Extraordinary" by Charles Foley, where it comes to Skorzeny's trial in which (amongs the charges- one using poison bullets, which turned out to be wrong) from page 219: Skorzeny "I had the emphatic order that my men should not fight in uniform. Disguise should be worn only until they reached their destination."
The next questions revealed the course Durst meant to take. He would make his way along the stepping stones of precedent -but for Allied precedent, which alone could take the weight of the defense. For it turned out that the victors had gone before them on this route, either the "rules of war" were obsolete or the Allies too were guilty".

And it goes on...
"The Germans came accross the notion that Intellegence reports on Allied operations. He recalled that British officers had been captured wearing enemy uniforms in Hungary, and were not shot. In both Italy and Yugoslavia German depots were often raided by partisans to get uniforms which they then wore in battle. The Polish patriot General Bor-Komorrowski used German uniform to start his Warsaw risin in 1944. Russians, to his knowledge, had frequently adopted this ruse. The Japanese had done the same thing. And so had the Americans."
Looking around the attentive court, Skorzeny repeated what Hitler had told him of Americans in German uniforms at Aachen. There where other such instances, At Saarlautern, for example, Americans bluffed their way in a German tank over the bridge which led to Frankfurt. But it was the Aachen deception that had given Hitler the idea for this very Operation "Greif". And in every instance he had mentioned the men were armed, and where neccesassry, had made use of their arms."

It then describes the legal side, the lack of papers etc...Then:
Durst anounces his last witness for the defense of Skorzeny (my italics) "Wing-Commander Forrest Yeo-Thomas
A short sturdy figure in the faded blue of the RAFwalked to the witness chair, sat down, and looked quizzically about him. Wondering what on earth a British officer might have to say for the defence, Skorzeny noticed that he wore some exceptional decorations, among them the French decorations for gallantry and the George Cross."

Ok, I won't retype the whole lot, but just to say the book goes into Yeo-Thomas's experiences of jumping into France and with the name of the "white Rabbit" stole German uniforms etc, and he was questioned about the use of German uniforms and in most particular, the use of German insignia, he replied they did indeed use German uniforms and insignia...
He told the court :
"that he had never met Skorzeny or any of his compatriots, but he wanted to say that in his opinion there was nothing wrong in the "crimes" they were accused of - wether they had committed them or not. From all he had heard, the prisoners had behaved like gentlemen"...

He then goes on to tell the court of one instance where they wore German uniforms and insignia, and with the use of forged documents made their way into the prison at Rennes and rescued a collegue..Asked what they would do if caught -"bump off the other guy"...
As the Wing Commander stepped from the dias, Skorzeny gave a quiet order; the prisoners stood and bowed. Then they sat down again."

Skorzeny sent Yeo-Thomas a note of thanks to which he replied:
"You did a damned good war job. I'm sure you will get off. In any case I have a flat in Paris if you should need somewhere to lie up."

The verdict was not in doubt: The accused where aquitted on all counts But then opened a strangely drawn out epilogue on which the curtain refused to fall.
The first envoi was Colonel Rosenfeld's. He congratulated the prisoners: they must must understand that he had merely carried out his orders as a soldier. "Just like us" Skorzeny retorted. The colonel had an afterthouhgt which he imparted to the Press.
"I still think this skorzeny is the most dangerous man in Europe""