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Sherman man
03-20-2007, 08:38 PM
The Ohka bomb is truly a show of how desperate the japanese were

panzerpete
03-20-2007, 08:38 PM
The Ohka bomb is truly a show of how desperate the japanese were

i agree completely

Sherman man
03-20-2007, 08:39 PM
it was a plane made just for kamakazie attacks

basicly it was a V-2 with a pilot

i read their max. range was 23 miles and they were launched from 25 miles

panzerpete
03-20-2007, 08:41 PM
wats kinda stupid is the betty bombers would fly to 25 miles within their target. and drop the ohka bombs. which had a range of 23 miles
(according to a book i read)

Sherman man
03-20-2007, 08:42 PM
they were released from bettys with modified bomb bays

panzerpete
03-20-2007, 08:42 PM
sorry sherman man said the same thing at the exact same time. kinda odd dont u think

Sherman man
03-20-2007, 08:43 PM
another example of japanese stupidity

Sherman man
03-20-2007, 08:43 PM
yep!!

Sherman man
03-20-2007, 08:44 PM
we must have read the same book

panzerpete
03-20-2007, 08:44 PM
basicly it was a V-2 with a pilot

thier pilot was actually welded shut in there. no turning back i guess

Sherman man
03-20-2007, 08:45 PM
what book was it?

panzerpete
03-20-2007, 08:56 PM
http://kitbox.free.fr/photoscopes/Ohka_P/Ohka_Baka.JPG
heres a image of the "piloted bomb"

panzerpete
03-20-2007, 08:58 PM
they spelled ohka 'baka' in the diagram for some reason

Sherman man
03-20-2007, 09:01 PM
Ohka means Cherry Blossom in japanese...I dont get it

Panzerknacker
03-20-2007, 09:02 PM
Sherman man, try to make less post with more content.

And by the way it was a missile.

Sherman man
03-20-2007, 09:03 PM
A suicidal flying bomb doesnt remind me of a cherry blossom at all

Does it?

panzerpete
03-20-2007, 09:10 PM
Flying bomb
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Yokosuka MXY-7 OhkaA flying bomb is an unmanned aerial vehicle or small aircraft carrying a large explosive warhead, a precursor to contemporary cruise missiles. In contrast to a bomber aircraft, which is intended to release bombs and then return to its base for re-use, a flying bomb crashes into its target and is therefore itself destroyed in its attack.

The first attempt to build a flying bomb (alternatively called an "aerial torpedo" in the Navy) was undertaken by Elmer Sperry in 1916, called the Hewitt-Sperry Automatic Airplane, and was based on a Curtiss N-9 seaplane. This led to a mission-specific Curtis design, the Curtiss-Sperry Flying Bomb, which was almost completely unsuccessful. The US Army also tried to develop a flying bomb in World War I, the Kettering Bug, but the war ended before the program could mature. The most famous example of a flying bomb is the German V-1, many of which targeted London in 1944 during World War II.

Flying bombs may be powered or unpowered, piloted or unpiloted, although unpowered flying bombs such as the German Hagelkorn ("Hailstone") and Fritz X designed during World War II are usually referred to as glide bombs. Flying bombs differ from missiles in that a flying bomb is equipped with wings to provide lift over a long distance, where missiles are launched on ballistic trajectories and do not rely on lift to reach their targets.

The term flying bomb is most frequently associated with two specific Second World War weapons, the German V-1 and the Japanese Ohka. The former was unpiloted, the latter carried a pilot on a kamikaze mission.

Perhaps because of these Axis connotations, the term cruise missile is more commonly used in English for modern munitions that might otherwise fit the definition of a flying bomb.

Civilian airliners commandeered as terrorist weapons intended to crash into targets, as in the September 11 terrorist attacks, are frequently referred to as "flying bombs" in the media.


heres something from wikipedia

Boff
03-21-2007, 05:50 AM
They call it the "Baka" because thats what the yanks nicknamed it.
Baka means "stupid/idiot" in Japanese.

panzerpete
03-21-2007, 03:41 PM
[QUOTE=Boff;96574]They call it the "Baka" because thats what the yanks nicknamed it.
Baka means "stupid/idiot" in Japanese.[/QU

i can see why they named it that

panzerpete
03-21-2007, 08:42 PM
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/kamikaze/german_kamikazi_v1_jet.jpghttp://www.b-29s-over-korea.com/firebombing/images/Baka_Bomb1.jpg
(im pretty sure the first one is a prototype piloted V1

panzerpete
03-21-2007, 08:50 PM
[edit] Japanese versions
In 1943, an Argus pulse jet engine was shipped to Japan by German submarine. The Aeronautical Institute of Tokyo Imperial University and the Kawanishi Aircraft Company conducted a joint study of the feasibility of mounting a similar engine on a piloted plane. The resulting design was based on the Fieseler Fi-103 Reichenberg (Fi103R, a piloted V-1), and was named Baika ("ume blossom").

Baika never left the design stage but technical drawings and notes suggest that two versions were under consideration: an air-launch version with the engine mounted under the fuselage, and a ground-launch version that could take off without a ramp.

Intelligence reports of the new "Baika" weapon are rumored to be the source of the name given to the Yokosuka MXY-7, a rocket-propelled suicide plane better known as the "Baka Bomb". However, as baka means idiot in Japanese, and the MXY-7 was officially designated the "Ohka" ("Cherry Blossom"), the true origin is unknown. The MXY-7 was usually carried by the G4M2e version of the Mitsubishi G4M "Betty" naval bomber, then the pilot lit the solid-fuel rockets and guided his flying bomb into a ship. During the Boeing B-29 firebomb attacks on Japanese cities, the Baka was deployed against American bombers.

Another Japanese Fi 103 version was the Mizuno Shinryu, a proposed rocket-powered kamikaze aircraft design, but it was not built.

panzerpete
03-21-2007, 08:53 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/G4M_Type_1_Attack_Bomber_Betty_launching_Baka_G4M-10.jpg/200px-G4M_Type_1_Attack_Bomber_Betty_launching_Baka_G4M-10.jpg
baka drop

Sherman man
03-22-2007, 06:53 PM
great pictures panzerpete ive not seen many pictures of baka bombs I used to call them okha but baka is more fitting thats what im calling them from now on

panzerpete
03-23-2007, 08:40 AM
you can find many pictures if u put the time into it

Twitch1
04-16-2007, 12:12 PM
The Okha could be launched as far as 70 miles away. Why was it stupid? It was a better kamakazi device than a Zero in that it could not be intercepted once underway due to its speed. If the Okha was stupid then the whole kamakazi endeavour was stupid depending on your point of view and cultural values. When one man could sink an entire ship by sacrificing his life the value was apparent.

Boff
04-16-2007, 01:59 PM
If they had a better way to be delivered I think they woulda been more effective. Riding on an outdated bomber probably wasnt the best..but what else could they do anyway at that point.

Amrit
04-16-2007, 06:57 PM
There's an Okha in the Indian Air Force Museum that was found in Japan and bought back by pilots of No.4 Squadron (RIAF) who formed part of the British Commonwealth Occupation Force in Japan after its surrender to the allies.

Sherman man
04-16-2007, 07:08 PM
I can see your point, Twitch, but in all respect, would you want to ram yourself into the side of a ship? Also, I think you should check your research.
Both me and Panzerpete have read that the Bakas were dropped from 25 miles when their rocket's range was 23 miles. I think if our sourses are the same, that's 2 against one. I have also read the Baka's success rate was extremely low and more bakas were destroyed in their transport bombers than were ever successfully launched.

Sherman man
04-16-2007, 07:41 PM
http://static.flickr.com/65/199539606_85d4ea2255.jpg

Kamikaze exploding and going down in flames before it's mission was accomplished. Waste of lifes.

Sherman man
04-16-2007, 07:56 PM
Does anyone know the success rate of kamikazies in wwII? I dont think it is very high.

Amrit
04-16-2007, 08:23 PM
Does anyone know the success rate of kamikazies in wwII? I dont think it is very high.


Although not often thought of as a precision weapon, the various Kamikaze attackers that first appeared in the fall of 1944 functioned much like modern antishipping missiles, and thus can legitimately be considered a part of the precision weapon story. The Kamikaze was the deadliest aerial antishipping threat faced by Allied surface warfare forces in the war. Approximately 2,800 Kamikaze attackers sunk 34 Navy ships, damaged 368 others, killed 4,900 sailors, and wounded over 4,800. Despite radar detection and cuing, airborne interception and attrition, and massive antiaircraft barrages, a distressing 14 percent of Kamikazes survived to score a hit on a ship; nearly 8.5 percent of all ships hit by Kamikazes sank. As soon as they appeared, then, Kamikazes revealed their power to force significant changes in Allied naval planning and operations, despite relatively small numbers. Clearly, like the antishipping cruise missile of a later era, the Kamikaze had the potential to influence events all out of proportion to its actual strength

From: https://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/EARS/Hallionpapers/precisionweaponspower.htm

panzerpete
04-17-2007, 01:00 PM
well, now i have a new percspective for kamakazies!

the 14 percent that scored a hit did lots of damage.

cool and thanks

Twitch1
04-17-2007, 01:32 PM
Gee Sherman man 2 against one? Is some sort of pissing contest or what? Don't get your panties in a bunch dude. The Oka 11 & 22 was normally launched 25-50 miles from its intended target. 70+ mile was the alleged range for the forthcoming Oka 30-40-50 series with turbojets.

On March 21, 1945 the 1st attack was launched with Oka 11s 60 miles from the US fleet. It really doesn't matter the range since US air superiority ruled. If they were 100 miles out the Hellcats would have carved up the G4Ms carrying them. . All sixteen Bettys and OKAs were destroyed despite thirty Zero escorts.

During the savage Okinawa struggle on April 16, 1945 seventy-four OKAs were airborne under the Bettys. Fifty-six were dropped early or shot down while attached. Some OKAs did find their target but exactly how many and other details remain uncertain. The destroyer USS Abele was definitely sunk by an OKA. But remember the Okas arrived very late on the war scene, were very few in number and had no viable opportunity to prove themselves thanks to the Hellcat screens.

During the aforementioned Okinawa operation- designated Kikusui (Floating Chrysanthemum), from April 6- June 22, 1945 the largest kamikaze force yet was unleashed using Zeros, Judys, Francis, Bettys, Nells, Jills, Kates plus the antique Claudes and recon aircraft with bombs. Out of 1,462 planes 846 from Japan hit targets. A further 357 aircraft from Formosa were flown with forty-eight hitting vessels.

Seventeen U.S. vessels were sunk and 198 damaged. Killed by kamikaze operations to that point were over 4,900 U.S. sailors and wounded 4,800 more. The U.S. Army’s casualties to secure Okinawa alone amounted to 7,613 killed and 31,800 wounded. The nearer to the homeland the Americans got the more fierce the resistance was.

All kamikazes used a total of over 2,500 planes and 1,189 scored hits. They subsequently sank thirty-four ships and damaged 368.

Whether I would desire to become a kamikaze pilot is a moot point since the Japanese history, culture, philosophy and bushido code of the era was completely alien to Americans and has no bearing whatsoever on Western values. The important thing is that the concept was viable to the Japanese borne out of their desperation.

In that the Emperor was considered a living god it was completely logical to sacrifice ones life relative to those times under those circumstances. Certainly no American would do the same for a president.

In that the US Navy's highest losses to that point in the war was attributable to kamikaze attacks it would be difficult not to conclude that they were successful to some degree.

panzerpete
04-17-2007, 08:10 PM
i just read a book about the japanese and the bushido code, spirit warriors, indiustrialation etc. and u are dead on, u are absolutely right that that

"era was completely alien to Americans and has no bearing whatsoever on Western values. The important thing is that the concept was viable to the Japanese borne out of their desperation.
In that the Emperor was considered a living god it was completely logical to sacrifice ones life relative to those times under those circumstances."

good post, and by the way, the book i read was FLYBOYS by james bradley,



P.S. i think that sherman wasn't trying to be offensive.

best
regards

GregP
08-13-2008, 10:38 PM
The "Baka" bomb was nothing at all like a German V-2.

It was MUCH closer to a German V-1, but did not run on a pulse jet like the V-1; it had rockets for propulsion.

From the comments, not many today apparently understand the WW2 Japanese devotion to country and emperor. The emperor was a God to be obeyed without question. That may SEEM strange 70 years later, but that is the way it was.

To this day, there are people that devoted to causes, just not to emperors. Think about it. There are still people williling to drive a car bomb into an area and blow themselves up. What is the difference between them and a Kamakaze pilot? What about the people who bombed the USS Cole? Or flew airplanes into the World Trade Center on 9/11?

Is there really any difference?

Major Walter Schmidt
08-16-2008, 05:17 AM
Um... yeah.. they were fighting more for their loved ones than one entity.

GregP
08-16-2008, 11:15 PM
Mostly, according to Japanese friends I know, very few, if any, Japanese soldiers fought for family or anything personal; they were fighting for the Emperor, Duty and Homeland.

This is not a flame contest ... it's what the Japanese themsleves SAY they were fighting for ...

If you disagree, that's OK.

Suicide bombers today are fighting for whatever cause they believe is worth their life, but their determination is the same; get the job done at the cost of their own life.

GregP
08-22-2008, 08:08 PM
Hey Twitch, I see you live in Los Angeles. Come out to the Planes of Fame Museum at Chino airport any Saturday and ask for Greg in the restoration hanger. I'll show you around and we can talk.

- Greg :-)

Major Walter Schmidt
08-22-2008, 11:08 PM
Ok. thanks for the correction.

maleonardo
08-27-2008, 11:43 PM
Just a V-1 with Pilot.

rhubarbpie
01-07-2012, 11:16 AM
The following account is from the 04/12/45 log of the USS Stanly, provided by Bob Alexander. Bob was a Gunner's Mate 1st Class on the ship and his memory of the attacks is quite good.

------------------------------------------------------

At 1449 diving out of a melee on our starboard boom, an unidentified plane out-ran our Combat Air Patrol and was taken under fire by 5” battery and automatic weapons as it approached on a collision course. The plane, although hit by automatic fire, crashed into our starboard bow, frame 23, about five feet above the water line, parts of it passing through the ship and continuing through the port side. A large explosion of the port bow at this time seemed to indicate that a bomb exploded there after passing through the ship. The plane, as sketched in enclosure (E), was approximately 20 feet long, had a 15 foot wing span and no engine or propeller was observed. Remains of a pilot were found in compartment A-302-L with the wreckage. Our speed at this time was 30 knots. At 1458 while we were maneuvering radically another dog-fight was going on high on our starboard quarter, and two Nips were shot out of the sky by our CAP. Suddenly a plane appeared out of nowhere low on our starboard beam. He closed us so rapidly that he was taken under fire by automatic weapons only. Many hits were observed, and a small section of his wing was shot away as he passed over the ship just aft of #2 stack, ripping our ensign. As we took him under fire to port he attempted to bank but hit the water 2,000 to 3,000 yards off our port bow, bounced once, hit the water again, and disintegrated. This was another engine less, propeller less plane, similar to the one that crashed into the ship. The speed of both planes was estimated to be in excess of 500 knots, and only a “swishing” was heard.

JR*
02-17-2012, 11:29 AM
A person who is fully willing to sacrifice his or her own life in whatever interest is a very dangerous weapon. A human being who has committed himself to a "definitely no return" mission in an Okha flying bomb must have been one of the most dangerous "guidance systems" in history - at least assuming that his Betty bomber "carrier" did not get shot down before the "bombload" could be released, a very frequent occurrance. However, as regards the voluntary character of this act, yes, clearly, it often was; however, veteran interviews I saw recently suggest that a good proportion of kamikaze pilots were induced to the act by moral pressure, from their superiors, their comrades, their families, or all three. It must have been difficult for a very young, probably immature man raised in that culture to resist such pressure. Best regards, JR.

leccy
02-18-2012, 07:28 AM
Howdy JR nice to see you in here.

With reference to your time out issues, when you log in tick the little box near where you enter your password, says something like remember my password, it should not keep logging you out then (of course only do this on your computer).

I have read several accounts now from kamikazi pilots (some actually did return due to various faults or failures to locate the enemy, along with those who never actually left for missions) who stated they were encouraged to volunteer by their peers and family. It was for the honour of the family 'pity it often ended the line of the family'.

Nickdfresh
02-18-2012, 02:36 PM
Thread moved out of archive and back into Japanese Military Forum...

burp
02-20-2012, 08:26 AM
Baka in that case is not "stupid" but "crazy". From American point of view the suicide attacks are a waste of life. Kamikaze attacks are not able to pose a real threat to US Navy so the name is correct.