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View Full Version : Australian and America go to war. With each other!



Rising Sun*
03-17-2007, 08:14 PM
Although kept under wraps during the war for morale purposes, there were problems between Australian and American servicemen on occasions in Australia during WWII. There were numerous fights, usually alcohol-fuelled. The most serious was the so-called Battle of Brisbane which left one Australian dead and several with gunshot wounds, and many others injured on both sides.

http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/ozatwar/bob.htm
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-battles/ww2/battle-brisbane.htm
http://www.anzacday.org.au/history/ww2/homefront/overview.html about halfway down page.

There were plenty of smaller fights. My father got into one with US Marines in Melbourne's best hotel, and got himself locked up by the cops while the Americans were left to drink in peace without being troubled by uncouth colonials. At the same time, my father had some friends among American troops at a major American camp near his home while his parents, like many other Australian families, often had American troops home for meals and company. This was a tradition that carried on for some years as I remember my father having visiting American sailors home for meals with the family in the 1950's. (I don't remember him feeding any Marines. :) )

It's also worth remembering that many servicemen will happily fight anyone who isn't part of their group. Just being from another regiment is enough, never mind another country. Add in grog and disputes over women and there's bound to be trouble.

The problem expressed in the fights was more of a conflict between (some) servicemen from each country rather than expressing a general resentment by Australians toward Americans, as Australians generally were bloody grateful to the Americans for being here to fight the Japanese who threatened to invade us.

Chevan
03-18-2007, 05:33 AM
Quite interesting post Risin Sun, thanks.
I have never heare before about simular problems besidew Americans and Australians


-American pay levels compared to the Australians
- smarter American uniforms compared to the Australians
- shops and hotels favouring the well-paid Americans
- Americans pinching their Aussie girls (and in some cases their wives)
- and the Americans' custom of caressing girls in public


Last two will make a "happy" the newest members of NATO from the Eastern Europe.;)
It should be like their wives after the soviet occupation.

Cheers.

Rising Sun*
03-18-2007, 06:09 AM
Last two will make a "happy" the newest members of NATO from the Eastern Europe.;)
It should be like their wives after the soviet occupation.

Cheers.

I don't know anything about this.

Could you tell me more?

GermanSoldier
03-18-2007, 12:42 PM
I know it seems like the marines get everything in world war 2 like Rising Sun* said after the fight only some of the Australians went to be locked up without the Marines getting locked up. This is nothing uncommon either for the US Marines in World War 2. Marines always got in fights with coastal guards, army, navy, and the airforce american troops. Usually there were wounds. Even that pay was different for the Marines you have to remember that they got payed differently because they are from a different country. I still thank it is a little selfish for Marines to fight your father just because he walked into a hotel. It just shows that people are over protective on certain things. Sorry for your dad in that fight. Was not fair at all.

Rising Sun*
03-18-2007, 06:27 PM
I know it seems like the marines get everything in world war 2 like Rising Sun* said after the fight only some of the Australians went to be locked up without the Marines getting locked up. This is nothing uncommon either for the US Marines in World War 2. Marines always got in fights with coastal guards, army, navy, and the airforce american troops. Usually there were wounds. Even that pay was different for the Marines you have to remember that they got payed differently because they are from a different country. I still thank it is a little selfish for Marines to fight your father just because he walked into a hotel. It just shows that people are over protective on certain things. Sorry for your dad in that fight. Was not fair at all.

If you knew my father, you wouldn't feel sorry for him. He started it alone with a few Marines and couldn't finish it. Given the time I think it happened, they were quite likely fresh from Guadalcanal. He was in the Militia and hadn't fired a shot in anger. The Marines did him a favour by not kicking the shit out of him.

The pay issue was a problem in Britain too, I think. Like Australia, the Americans were better paid, better dressed, better equipped, and generally better off (and in Australia at least, better behaved) than a lot of the locals, and especially the servicemen.

GermanSoldier
03-18-2007, 06:44 PM
The pay issue was a problem in Britain too, I think. Like Australia, the Americans were better paid, better dressed, better equipped, and generally better off

I do agree with you, but just because they were allies doesn't mean we need the same pay, dressed, and equipment as each other. It is not the U.S. responsiabilty to worry about different nations pay or equipment. They are worried about there own servicemen. So if the men of the Australian army have a problem with it then they can discuss it within there own country and keep the U.S. out of the discussion. The U.S. had nothing to do with it in the first place.

Digger
03-25-2007, 08:14 AM
It just wasn't WWII this happened. My cousin was a Nasho and he and a few mates got into a blue with some Yanks up at the Cross one night and were copping a bit of a hiding until some nice American sailors intervened. Seems the sailors didn't have much affection for the Marines for some reason.

Regards Digger,

32Bravo
03-25-2007, 08:19 AM
I do agree with you, but just because they were allies doesn't mean we need the same pay, dressed, and equipment as each other. It is not the U.S. responsiabilty to worry about different nations pay or equipment. They are worried about there own servicemen. So if the men of the Australian army have a problem with it then they can discuss it within there own country and keep the U.S. out of the discussion. The U.S. had nothing to do with it in the first place.


True!

But it can become an issue if it is flaunted for the sake of expressing some mis-informed sense of superiority.

32Bravo
03-27-2007, 07:52 AM
Instructions for American Servicemen in Australia 1942 (extracts).

"...Unlike cricket, which is a polite game, Australian Rules Football creates a desire on the part of the crowd to tear someone apart, usually the referee..."

"..Don't mistake the emblem on an Australian soldier's hat for a Rising Sun. It's just the opposite. It's a rising ring of bayonets..."

"...SOLDIER..Tough Guy! He's called 'Digger' or an ANZAC (Australia and New Zealand Army Corps)..."

"..There are 120 million (scared..32b) sheep in Australia - 40 sheep for every square mile.."

"..The Australian has few equals in the world at swearing...the commonest swear words are bastard (pronounced "barstud"), "bugger", and "bloody", and the Australians have a genius for using the latter nearly every other word..."

Special Services Division, Services of Supply, United States Army and issued by War and Navy Departments Washington D.C.

The Turks at Galipoli hearing the Australians calling out Bastard, so often, they presumed it to be Australian for Allah! 32B :)

Rising Sun*
03-27-2007, 08:38 AM
Instructions for American Servicemen in Australia 1942 (extracts).

"...Unlike cricket, which is a polite game, Australian Rules Football creates a desire on the part of the crowd to tear someone apart, usually the referee..."

Wrong. The person we Aussie Rules supporters wanted to tear apart was the umpire. Referee! US BS! Standard chant: "Kill the ump! Kill the ump!" This was just normal banter in a friendly game when all was going well. The rare prospect of imminent ump death was normally signalled by a shower of pies, beer bottles and other rubbish before the oval was finally assaulted, giving the umps time to piss off.

I can't comment on the states to my north where they played rugby, which is a notoriously uncouth game played by brutal ruffians. I expect that up there, coherent language not being one of the strong points in the game of the thick short necks, they just killed the umps, without any warning chant. :D (I know 32Bravo supports rugby, which is precisely why I've made this comment. :D )


"..There are 120 million (scared..32b) sheep in Australia - 40 sheep for every square mile.."

And about ten times that density in New Zealand, where they have a much closer relationship with their sheep.

Q. Why do New Zealand farmers put the back legs of female sheep into the farmers' gumboots and place these female sheep with their front legs on the edge of cliffs?

A. Because it makes the sheep press back against the farmers. :D


The Turks at Galipoli hearing the Australians calling out Bastard, so often, they presumed it to be Australian for Allah! 32B :)

Nah, bastard is just Australian for bastard, which depending upon inflection and relationship to the speaker means anything from 'mate' to 'immediate murder candidate'. However, calling someone 'Allah' could lead to serious conflict.

32Bravo
03-27-2007, 10:17 AM
Is that the 1 Para, D.Z. flash?

1000ydstare
03-27-2007, 12:57 PM
Similar, although not fatal, clashes occured between British and American forces for exactly the same reasons.


-American pay levels compared to the Australians
- smarter American uniforms compared to the Australians
- shops and hotels favouring the well-paid Americans
- Americans pinching their Aussie girls (and in some cases their wives)
- and the Americans' custom of caressing girls in public


As previously mentioned it is not the Americans fault that they were overpaid or how they were dressed. Their customs around girls is also not neccesarily their fault, although regardless of all of this pinching another mans wife is the lowest of the low.

32Bravo
03-27-2007, 02:14 PM
Young men of different cultures and seperated by a common language, about to go to war and, perhaps, die. Young, nubile women, lonely,frightened and with needs; swept off their feet by these glamorous, exciting and exotic men who spoke fast and large, and satisfied a need. It was a war, no one could be blamed. Not the men nor the women. Aussie and Brits would, and did, do the same when opportunity knocked...I could tell tales of the girls of Great Falls, Montana ;)..but I'll leave it to your imagination!! ;) :)

1000ydstare
03-27-2007, 02:35 PM
Canada (esp Medicine Hat).
Norway.
German.
Miami.
One particular US Reservist in Qatar.

Yep, we know the score.... :p

1000ydstare
03-27-2007, 02:36 PM
Canada (esp Medicine Hat).
Norway.
German.
Miami.
One particular US Reservist in Qatar.

Yep, we know the score.... :p

32Bravo
03-27-2007, 02:46 PM
Canada (esp Medicine Hat).
Norway.
German.
Miami.
One particular US Reservist in Qatar.

Yep, we know the score.... :p

Ocho Rios...Montego Bay..Discovery bay ...JAMAICA!!!!(still talking American gals - they loved Jungle Green!)...;)

32Bravo
03-27-2007, 02:59 PM
I can't comment on the states to my north where they played rugby, which is a notoriously uncouth game played by brutal ruffians. I expect that up there, coherent language not being one of the strong points in the game of the thick short necks, they just killed the umps, without any warning chant. :D (I know 32Bravo supports rugby, which is precisely why I've made this comment. :D )


It is absolutely true that Rugby is a game for brutal ruffians, but it is played by gentlemen..don't you know?

They say that in Wales where, also, there are lots of sheep, that "men are men, and sheep are scared"..is it the same in the land of Auss... or is it just the the Kiwis that are so much better in the scrum? :D

GermanSoldier
03-27-2007, 05:04 PM
although regardless of all of this pinching another mans wife is the lowest of the low.
yes it is. Now that would call for a fight. I could see the Australians getting mad at the Americans for doing that.

Rising Sun*
03-27-2007, 06:21 PM
yes it is. Now that would call for a fight. I could see the Australians getting mad at the Americans for doing that.

Probably an apocryphal story as I've heard it from various sources, including one from an American officer who married an Australian woman and said he attended a movie where it happened.

During the scene in the Disney cartoon film Bambi (about a cute baby deer), Bambi gets lost in the forest and calls out plaintively "Where's my mother?"

An Australian soldier in uniform in the audience brings the house down by standing up and shouting out "She's out with a bloody Yank!"

GermanSoldier
03-27-2007, 06:27 PM
Probably an apocryphal story as I've heard it from various sources, including one from an American officer who married an Australian woman and said he attended a movie where it happened.

During the scene in the Disney cartoon film Bambi (about a cute baby deer), Bambi gets lost in the forest and calls out plaintively "Where's my mother?"

An Australian soldier in uniform in the audience brings the house down by standing up and shouting out "She's out with a bloody Yank!"

Well I guess he got him there. If I was in the theatre I would of started laughing. Even that I am American. It would be funny to me.

Rising Sun*
03-27-2007, 07:12 PM
Off topic.


Is that the 1 Para, D.Z. flash?

Marginally less glorious. Although more noble, as the wearers weren't killers but saved lives. It's the Australian Army Veterinary Corps WWII colour patch.

Given the recent kerfuffle about your avatar, and given that I couldn't remember which of the many versions of the rising sun badge that was my original avatar (and which you kindly found for me :)) was the WWII one, I thought I'd better use an avatar that was definitely WWII.

However, I thought I should use one that reflected where I would really like to be in WWII. None of that hairy-chested commando or Spitfire pilot stuff for this confirmed coward. The Australian Army Postal Service looked okay, but mail has to be delivered and soldiers near or, worse, at the front got mail so there was a risk of going somewhere that I could get hurt. The Pay Corps looked better, but soldiers on active service still have to be paid, so I could be sent overseas and be torpedoed on the way. So that didn't meet my occupational health and safety requirements either. We didn't use horses much overseas in WWII so that looked pretty safe, but I forgot that horses can bite and kick, so the Veterinary Corps patch has gone.

A shore battery in Tasmania was close to my other requirements, being regular hours, regular hot meals, proper bed with sheets and pillow and inner spring mattress (no palliasses for this baby!), plenty of leave, and lots of sex. If you've had much to do with Tasmanians, you'll know why there were problems with the last requirement

Then I remembered the Australian Women's Land Army, who were all women; who did only farm work and had tons of farm fresh food without rationing; and who generally worked well inland in Australia, away from all military risks and with no risk of overseas service. Best of all, my grandfather wouldn't let my aunt join the Land Army because he reckoned they had loose morals. So, say hello to the new CO of any battalion of the Australian Women's Land Army, whose patch is now my avatar. :mrgreen:

32Bravo
03-28-2007, 02:50 AM
Off topic.



Marginally less glorious. Although more noble, as the wearers weren't killers but saved lives. It's the Australian Army Veterinary Corps WWII colour patch.

Given the recent kerfuffle about your avatar, and given that I couldn't remember which of the many versions of the rising sun badge that was my original avatar (and which you kindly found for me :)) was the WWII one, I thought I'd better use an avatar that was definitely WWII.

However, I thought I should use one that reflected where I would really like to be in WWII. None of that hairy-chested commando or Spitfire pilot stuff for this confirmed coward. The Australian Army Postal Service looked okay, but mail has to be delivered and soldiers near or, worse, at the front got mail so there was a risk of going somewhere that I could get hurt. The Pay Corps looked better, but soldiers on active service still have to be paid, so I could be sent overseas and be torpedoed on the way. So that didn't meet my occupational health and safety requirements either. We didn't use horses much overseas in WWII so that looked pretty safe, but I forgot that horses can bite and kick, so the Veterinary Corps patch has gone.

A shore battery in Tasmania was close to my other requirements, being regular hours, regular hot meals, proper bed with sheets and pillow and inner spring mattress (no palliasses for this baby!), plenty of leave, and lots of sex. If you've had much to do with Tasmanians, you'll know why there were problems with the last requirement

Then I remembered the Australian Women's Land Army, who were all women; who did only farm work and had tons of farm fresh food without rationing; and who generally worked well inland in Australia, away from all military risks and with no risk of overseas service. Best of all, my grandfather wouldn't let my aunt join the Land Army because he reckoned they had loose morals. So, say hello to the new CO of any battalion of the Australian Women's Land Army, whose patch is now my avatar. :mrgreen:


Yes, I understand. I had much the same thoughts. I had considered the Fanny's (First Aid Nursing Yeomanry -but they weren't nurses) but their contribution was far too dangerous. I met up with a dozen or so of the them a couple of years ago, lovely ladies that make one feel very humbled.

http://www.64-baker-street.org/organisations/orgs_the_fany.html

WW2 SOE

1000ydstare
03-28-2007, 12:18 PM
Ah, the FANY. I might have to whip up a quick thread.

THe FANYs were originally envisages by an old codger of a Cavalryman, to be mounted "Florence Nightingales" giving treatment onthe battlefield.

By WW2, they were mainly involved in communications, particulary the breaking of German Codes.


THE FIRST AID NURSING YEOMANRY (FANY) was created in 1907 as a first aid link between front-line fighting units and the field hospitals.

During the First World War, FANYs ran field hospitals, drove ambulances and set up soup kitchens and troop canteens, often under highly dangerous conditions. By the Armistice, they had been awarded many decorations for bravery, including 17 Military Medals, 1 Legion d'Honneur and 27 Croix de Guerre.



At the outbreak of the Second World War, the Corps was called upon to form the nucleus of the Motor Driver Companies of the ATS. Another section was attached to the Polish Army, and a Kenyan unit formed in 1935 also joined the war effort. A spirit of independence led others to join the FANY in the Special Operations Executive.

These women worked on coding and signals, acted as conductors for agents and provided administration and technical support for the Special Training Schools. Their work was top secret and often highly skilled. Members operated in several theatres of war, including North Africa, Italy, India and the Far East.



Many of the female agents sent by SOE to France were commissioned into the Corps. Twelve died in concentration camps. Three of these courageous women - Odette Hallowes, Violette Szabo and Noor lnayat Khan - were awarded the George Cross, the last two posthumously.

(Pictured: Odette Hallowes GC, MBE, Chevalier de Legion d'Honneur)

In all 54 names are recorded on the FANY memorial at St Paul's Church, Knightsbridge, London.

Since the war, the Corps has been known chiefly for its work in the field of military and civil communications, a legacy of its distinguished wartime record.

In 1999, the FANY was officially renamed the Princess Royal's Volunteer Corps (PRVC), and it is now known as FANY(PRVC).

http://www.fany.org.uk/assets/history/ww1/hallowes.jpg
Odette Hallowes GC, MBE, Chevalier de Legion d'Honneur)

Have worked with "the girls" on a few exercises, jolly hockey stocks what. Can't fault them to be honest.

From their site.

32Bravo
03-28-2007, 12:30 PM
Ah, the FANY. I might have to whip up a quick thread.

THe FANYs were originally envisages by an old codger of a Cavalryman, to be mounted "Florence Nightingales" giving treatment onthe battlefield.

By WW2, they were mainly involved in communications, particulary the breaking of German Codes.



http://www.fany.org.uk/assets/history/ww1/hallowes.jpg
Odette Hallowes GC, MBE, Chevalier de Legion d'Honneur)

Have worked with "the girls" on a few exercises, jolly hockey stocks what. Can't fault them to be honest.

From their site.

The ladies that I met, were of WW2 (SOE) vintage. Very modest and with a girlie sense of humour.